Should transgender SPs reveal their (male) past?

[Guest Prufrock Cummings]

I would be curious, in all this blabbing and exchange of semi-insults, to know about a transgender SP.

 

Unlikely to happen since it doesn't seem to interest them that much.

 

This is the kind of subject everybody has an opinion on and fight over, when deeply, it doesn't even worth the shot.

 

So here's a pretty good solution to your question:

- Disclosed on ad and willing to take the shot: GO!

- Disclosed on ad, but not interested anyways: DON'T!

- Not disclosed on ad, and would be willing to try: NICE!

- Not disclosed on ad, and not willing to try: BRUSH IT OFF.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but this is now turned to ridicule.

 

Lesson of hobbying #1:

Transgender or not, an SP is an SP, and she (or he) has the liberty to run her (or his) buisness the way she (or he) wants.

 

Whatever you say won't change that.

 

Hi Grass Hopper, love your thoughts but I am a little confused by your solution to the OP's question which was:

 

"There is a market for their services, so why deceive clients? What do you think?"

 

The four bullet points that you list, are they meant for the OP or for the advertiser to clarify?

 

Thank you.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Just wanted to post this article - it seems the whole issue of trans gender is also in main stream media.

 

http://www.upworthy.com/heres-what-itll-look-like-if-trans-people-arent-allowed-to-use-the-right-bathroom?c=ufb8

[Regent 35404]

I'd be curious just how much of a women a man can physically become these days.

Technology is moving us forward certainly, but what about the finer details of femininity such as bone structure, tone of voice, softness of the skin, different scents, all of the things that might be dismissed in a photo but apparent in real life.

 

This is an incredibly complicated question that depends on a lot of individual factors, as well as what we believe it means to be "physically a woman."

 

If you're asking if it's possible for a trans woman to be consistently read as cis (identifying with the gender they were assigned at birth), even by people who are physically intimate with her, then the answer is yes, absolutely.

 

This isn't true for all trans women, and not all trans women care about or want to be read as cis. Not all trans women are interested in bottom surgery. But it is definitely possible for some trans women.

 

Hormones can have a very dramatic effect on the texture of skin, distribution of body fat, body smells etc. Vaginoplasty and labiaplasty surgical techniques can construct genitals that self-lubricate, are orgasmic, and that you could not tell by look or feel were surgically constructed (and keep in mind that there's a lot of variation in the way that vulvas and vaginas look and feel.)

 

Things like genetics also play a huge role in how hormones influence the expression of typically male or female traits. There are plenty of people who naturally look very androgynous, have very little body and facial hair, fine bone structure, high voices etc. And for people who figure out that they're trans very young, puberty blockers can completely prevent the "wrong" secondary sex characteristics from developing.

 

I think in discussions like these we also need to think very critically about our assumptions about what makes a person a man or a woman.

 

Culturally and socially there are a whole lot of assumptions about these categories - assumptions about biology, never mind things like social roles and expectations - that are just plain inaccurate, and fail to account for normal human variation.

 

Biologically, females produce eggs, males produce sperm. That's it - that's the criteria for an individual being biologically male or female. Things like hormones, secondary sex characteristics, genitals, and even chromosomes do not define our biological sex. While we can say that certain characteristics typically go together, we all fall on a bell curve, and those tail ends of the bell curve are still part of normal human variation.

 

So a few examples:

 

Androgen insensitivity syndrome can result in someone who is genetically XY to develop phenotypically female. They may be assigned female at birth, identify as a woman and never even know that they are XY.

 

Poly cystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) is very common among women and one of the symptoms for many people is growth of facial and body hair that is coarser and darker than is typical for women.

 

While most people will have either XX or XY sex chromosomes, some people are also only born with a single sex chromosome (X or Y) or three or more sex chromosomes (polysomies - for example XXY, XXX, XXXY, XXXXY etc).

 

At birth babies are typically assigned a gender based on the appearance of their genitals, however, a small percentage of people will have ambiguous genitalia at birth. They may have their genitals surgically altered shortly after birth - usually to resemble a typical vulva (not best practice, and often considered a human rights violation), or may grow up with genitals that don't resemble a typical penis or vulva. They may or may not opt for surgical reconstruction as adults and the gender they were assigned at birth may or may not fit their actual gender identity.

 

Beyond biology, we also should think about how the ways we are socialized influence our ideas of who is a man or woman, and what is feminine. Largely, western ideas of femininity and beauty are strongly constructed around white European phenotypes, cultures, and beliefs about class. It's not just trans women whose womanhood and femininity is constantly challenged, but also women of colour, most notably black women (see all of the awful comments about the Williams sisters' bodies as a prominent example.)

 

These messages about what constitutes valid and real femininity are everywhere and deeply ingrained in our cultures. We are not at fault for internalizing them but I do believe it behooves us to look critically about how these ideas are influenced by things like racism and classism, how they are built on false beliefs about biology, and how these ideas harm and constrain us all. Trans women often bear the most severe consequences - discrimination and violence - of these narrow definitions of who is a man or woman, and what is acceptable femininity, but all women and men are impacted negatively by them.

 

If you've ever felt insecure about your masculinity it's these very ideas at play, and you too would benefit from us collectively reexamining them.

[smjkm 100]

Very interesting perspective Regent.

I would agree that much like individual preferences for masculine and feminine attributes, the attributes people are born with do not fit one strict definition of masculinity or femininity.

 

I would however suggest that if someone possessed predominately masculine traits, medical science could only go so far toward the feminine side of the scale, and some masculine traits are more easily altered than others at this time.

 

I have indeed questioned my masculinity at times. Although I am very masculine physically I sometimes take issue with the idea that men always need to be dominant in their lives and in relationships. Sometimes I just want to sit back and enjoy the ride/give up control, not a very "masculine" trait I suppose :)

[Horndog66 14104]

OK, so there is a divergence of opinion on my original question. Hardly surprising!

 

Here's a twist:

 

Recently, one of the two (post-op) transgendered SPs I mentioned as not advertising their male past has started advertising not only as a woman, but as having "natural DDs" Obviously, that is blatantly false, so now the question becomes:

 

Should her false advertising be exposed?

[Guest S****r]

She could have natural DDs. Hormones make the boobs grow,

[waterat 20911]

@horndog: nope. The 'natural' simply indicates not implants. So what if hormone treatments generated them. She feels those hormones are her 'natural' hormones.

It's her business not ours.

[Ice4fun 78396]

I am late to th topic as I have been away from the board for a while but I have to admit this thread made me stop and think...

 

I have had experiences with Transgendered ladies an enjoyed them immensely but in all of those cases I was aware upfront that I was meeting someone who was trans and had not undergone a complete gender reassignment surgery... some have indicated that was their goal other indicated that they were happy as they currently were which in my situations have all been Male to Female.

 

In these circumstances where I was looking for an encounter with a Trans lady I was of course very happy that they had disclosed this in their ads. But I had to stop and think what if I had been booking to see a lady whose advertisement attracted me and upon meeting I discovered the person was trans either fully transitioned or not.

 

Well I think if I was expecting an encounter with a lady and envisioned that our game of tiddlewinks would include all the generally accepted body parts associated with a male female game of tiddlewinks and was surprised to find that was not the case I think I would have expected to this would have been disclosed in the booking process. However if all the body parts were accounted for regardless if "God given" or "assisted by man" then I don't think I would care.

 

Just my Opinion

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

We can argue until we are blue in the face about what one "should" or "shouldn't" do, but at the end of it all, it is really up to the individual as to what they actually do. Some people choose not to disclose for a number of reasons, including how they identify, and what they perceive the risks of non-disclosure to be. Others may have weighed the pros and cons and decided for themselves to disclose.

 

If it is that important to you, then ask politely during the booking process.

 

Also, on that note, please respect someone's choice as to whether they disclose this information, or how they go about it. Some may indicate it on their website or ad, and some may choose to disclose that information on a more personal level, such as by email or during a phone call. It always irks me to see threads asking about a provider, because if it's not publicly disclosed, there may be a reason for it (including safety), and generally these discussions use shitty, transphobic language.

[oftenrong69 170]

It seems my earlier post got you worked up and for that I apologise, however let me try to make my point again.....

If I am attracted to an SP anything in her past is of no consequence to me. That she may have been a man matters not.

As I understood earlier comments some felt that they had a right to know what was in a woman's past..... My point was an attempt to say that it is none of your business, whether those issues in her past be positive or negative. My (obviously) poorly chosen examples were not intended as a comments on stereotypical views, although that is exactly the way they came accross.

How about..... If she was previously a hit man, would you demand the right to know that? Could also be dangerous if you piss her off.

[Guest S****r]

It seems my earlier post got you worked up and for that I apologise, however let me try to make my point again.....

If I am attracted to an SP anything in her past is of no consequence to me. That she may have been a man matters not.

As I understood earlier comments some felt that they had a right to know what was in a woman's past..... My point was an attempt to say that it is none of your business, whether those issues in her past be positive or negative. My (obviously) poorly chosen examples were not intended as a comments on stereotypical views, although that is exactly the way they came accross.

How about..... If she was previously a hit man, would you demand the right to know that? Could also be dangerous if you piss her off.

 

The appalling assumption was that STIs, criminal activity, etc are " a high probability within the SP community."

That's pretty insulting and completely erroneous. And the fact that you didn't even get the point just re-emphasizes the problematic thinking.

[fortunateone 156618]

OK, so there is a divergence of opinion on my original question. Hardly surprising!

 

Here's a twist:

 

Recently, one of the two (post-op) transgendered SPs I mentioned as not advertising their male past has started advertising not only as a woman, but as having "natural DDs" Obviously, that is blatantly false, so now the question becomes:

 

Should her false advertising be exposed?

 

Has it occurred to you that someone is lying about these sps who you claim to 'know' are TG, even tho they have not disclosed it, and in fact deny it?

 

There was an sp a few years ago who was falsely accused of being TG, online, who successfully sued for damages to her reputation for the libelous comments.

 

You might want to keep that in mind if you intend to pursue this angle, because i have no doubt that multiple people are clamouring by pm to find out who this (according to your 3rd party accusations) 'devious' sp really is

 

 

 

? For those who suggest it would be a good idea for someone who is fully transitioned to advertise as TG, have you read the news these days? Several US states are enacting laws to prevent trans people from entering bathrooms that are not desigated their gender of birth. That means, according to law, someone like Kaitlyn Jenner, as many of you have seen what she looks like, would be required by LAW to enter (dressed as she usually is) a mens room.

 

How is that, or putting it in the ad, not an invitation for serious assault and/or death?

 

Over 40 trans women who work as sps in the US have been murdered so far this year.

 

But you want someone to put it in their ads even tho they are actually women via transition? It's one thing for a non transistioned transwoman to not disclose it, then client be surprised by the penis, i agree only to that point, that in itself is dangerous, and for their own safety they shouldn't do that as an sp.

 

Additional Comments:

The appalling assumption was that STIs, criminal activity, etc are " a high probability within the SP community."

That's pretty insulting and completely erroneous. And the fact that you didn't even get the point just re-emphasizes the problematic thinking.

 

 

 

And don't get me started on the guy who assumes that because someone was male, and had sex with other men, therefore they 'probably' have HIV because, you know, msm right there are the only people with AIDs and transmitting AIDs, therefore a transgendered woman who has sex with men as a woman, therefore must be transmitting AIDs, cuz, you know 'the gays all have it".

 

but not hetero guys, nope, none of them got it, and none of them are spreading it around, deliberately nope.

[Tia Phoenixx 340]

here is my words:

 

Trans women are woman.

Gender inst only about genitalia, especially for trans women who have undergone SRS and live and "function" fully as a woman.

 

If you look at me naked, you wont tell the difference between me and those who were born naturally a woman.

 

However, i do understand that for some men it can be disturbing thus if anybody politely ask me about my past, i will tell the truth, otherwise i dont think it is necessary anymore.

 

I am a woman who was born differently, but a woman. Full stop.

I dont even like to label myself as a TS anymore. It was my past, the period of time while TRANSITIONING to become the woman that i always want to be.

 

Now, i have become one, my journey has reached its final destination. I am happy and relieved. All the sorrows, bullies, and struggles have passed...finally phew!

 

In real life, everybody sees and treats me as a woman.

 

 

cheers

Tia Phoenixx

[Mona 1040]

As a trans service provider, I'd like to offer my input from experience.

 

In addition to working as an escort, I also work as a street prostitute. As an escort, my ads are quite clear about the fact that I'm transgender. As a street prostitute, that is not the case. Men who see my ad are specifically looking for a transsexual woman. Men who pick me up on the street have no idea that I'm a transsexual, at first.

 

If they just want a blowjob, then as far as I'm concerned there's no need to tell them what's between my legs. If they try to grope me, I move their hand away and tell them "that's high value territory, you haven't paid for that". If they want sex, then I tell them that I have a penis.

 

I have regulars that just want head, and they have no idea I have a penis. I have one regular who I finally told after a few months of just giving him head, and he was completely ok with me having a penis. And there's been guys who've picked me up and who've either slid their hands into my crotch faster than I expected, or who realize up close that I'm a transsexual, and have said, in various ways, that that's not their bag, baby.

 

I was completely unwilling to disclose that I had a penis at first to street clients. I'd make up excuses like "shark week", recent surgery, etc. in order to dissuade them. I finally got tired of constantly lying and told a regular, and after his positive reaction, I decided to disclose to all my street clients.

 

The positive reactions have been quite surprising! I don't know whether it's them being comfortable with me, more extensive and positive media exposure, changing attitudes - but quite a few guys who picked me up not knowing I had a penis have been completely into it after being told. I've had a couple of guys ask if I was a man based on my voice, my height (5'10"), and I simply respond, "No, I'm not a man. I'm a woman. I do happen to have a penis though, is that going to be a problem?"

 

Maybe it's living in a smaller city, maybe it's client age (the older people get, the less they seem to give a shit about things that would bother younger people), maybe it's good old-fashioned Canadian politeness, but I've never felt endangered upon telling a client that I have a penis. The worst I've had to deal with is young people driving by and yelling shitty things.

 

Working the streets as a transsexual woman is the ultimate test, I think. It's been enlightening and very uplifting. Maybe I've been extremely lucky, but I'd like to think my positive attitude and general attractiveness make the difference.

[Taffer 2280]

For me it is pretty black and white. If they have male genitalia and they are advertising as a woman, I'd want to know what is going on between the legs.

Seeing as most ads do not contain explicit/full frontal images, it would be difficult for me to discern unless informed.

 

If I go in for a woman and find out that they still have man parts between the legs, then I won't repeat, and won't have wonderful things to say about the experience (nothing bad either, just nothing wonderful ;) )

 

If on the other hand they are trans and have female genitalia, then there is no reason to disclose, I'd be able to tell from the non explicit images whether they are feminine enough for me.

 

In the end we are only paying for an sp's time and companionship, so it is really up to them what they would like to conceal and disclose, but as a general rule, the more upfront and honest you are the more happy customers you will have.

 

There are also some dangerous individuals out there who wouldn't take to surprises the same way respectful gentleman like myself and other lyla members would, so there is an element of honesty keeping you safe.

[lookingforward 907]

I'm finding this thread fascinating on many levels. Really what's being discussed here in this specific context is no different than trans, and frankly - all people to some degree - face in this world where we have not reached a blissful nirvana world of true acceptance of one another.

 

I have taken a different take on this topic in the past year when my child came out to me that he was really a woman and begun the hormone process to become physically what she always felt herself to be inside.

 

She's lucky to have supportive friends and family - and I hope that everyone here - whether trans or not - finds the support they need in life.