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A dark end to the Trump administration

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          Yesterday was a dark day for U.S. history.

   A formality with symbolic oppositions became a deadly siege of the U.S. Capitol. But amid the violence and chaos, Trump accomplished the unexpected. By cowardly sending thousands of protesters to storm Congress and the Senate, he finally united a majority of Republicans and enablers against him. With 4 dead and over 50 injured, there will be consequences.

  It's still unclear what the next two weeks will bring and if Trump will finish his term. But it's now safe to say he won't campaign again for 2024.

   Many expected a breaking point. We just witnessed it.

   

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I know the problems run deep in the US but January 20th can’t get here fast enough.  At least then an attempt at healing can start instead of pouring gasoline on every problem.

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Just now, Sharpe said:

I know the problems run deep in the US but January 20th can’t get here fast enough.  At least then an attempt at healing can start instead of pouring gasoline on every problem.

    The healing process has already begun. Wednesday's event was sobering for many. Took 5 death (including a police officer) to show the real consequences of violent rhetoric. Conspiracy theories and divisions will remain, but public figures will now think twice before embracing this kind of incendiary politic.

    Took way too long to happen. But better late than never.

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   Also, there a lot of online shatter of Trump "self-pardoning" before the end of his term to avoid future criminal prosecution. Even if this was a possibility, this wouldn't protect him from everything. Presidential pardons are double edged swords. While protect and eliminate criminal convictions, don't protect from civil lawsuits. And as pardons also act as admissions of guilt, it leaves recipients defenseless in civil courts.

   Trump and his associates will likely never see jail cells, but will likely end their lives penniless.

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7 hours ago, Greenteal said:

   Also, there a lot of online shatter of Trump "self-pardoning" before the end of his term to avoid future criminal prosecution. Even if this was a possibility, this wouldn't protect him from everything. Presidential pardons are double edged swords. While protect and eliminate criminal convictions, don't protect from civil lawsuits. And as pardons also act as admissions of guilt, it leaves recipients defenseless in civil courts.

   Trump and his associates will likely never see jail cells, but will likely end their lives penniless.

And at best he can only pardon for federal crimes. Any crimes that come under state jurisdiction can still be investigated and prosecuted. Now with that said currently crimes being investigated by New York whether they end up seeing the inside of a courtroom or if so would Trump get a sweet deal is anyone's guess.

And sadly I don't think Trump will ever be penniless...in fact I read somewhere awhile back he is a billionaire. As much as we'd like him to have to sit on a street corner selling pencils to survive 😆  its not going to happen

A Rambling

RG

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8 minutes ago, roamingguy said:

And sadly I don't think Trump will ever be penniless...in fact I read somewhere awhile back he is a billionaire. As much as we'd like him to have to sit on a street corner selling pencils to survive 😆  its not going to happen

A Rambling

RG

  His "billionaire" status was often questioned as most of his "fortune" are loans. And as most of his pre-presidential businesses venture were negatively affected by his term, don't expect a rebound after this fiasco.

Trump Will Have $900 Million Of Loans Coming Due In His Second Term If He’s Reelected (forbes.com)

  And the same way he's been dodging taxes for years, you can expect any money left will likely be hidden under the name of his children until his death.

5 takeaways from the New York Times report on Trump's tax returns | CTV News

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80 million followers on Twitter and now blocked. I remember a fight between two guys outside my door one day over who had more followers on Instagram. Its  a sad day when Trump can't and is banned from communicating  on social media. A great day for the people who are tired of his continuous bantering. Twelve days can't come soon enough. 

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My hope is that Pence and his cabinet come to the realization that he needs to be removed from office by the 25th amendment to the constitution. And that they do it immediately before he starts pre-emptively handing out pardons to get off the hook. And I really hope that the incoming AG will be able to bring the full force of the law against him for the acts of Jan 6, 2021. They are nothing short of sedition, treason, inciting a riot and imo, accessory to murder or at least manslaughter for the deaths that occurred.

Sadly, I fear this will not happen though. My thought is Biden will think this through and realize that persuing it could possibly divide the nation further. And further stoke the flame of the radical right wing movement that  Trump has brought out of hiding and nurtured these last 4 years. 

Despite Trumps artificial and scripted chastising  and condemnation of the acts and perpetrators of this attack on the capitol, I truly believe it is exactly what he wants. I also believe that he purposely held back the national guard by ignoring repeated requests and calls so the rioters could get in and do the damage they intended to do. I also believe that because of how easily they were able to pull this off, it emboldens these neo nazis and white supremacists to take this even further. We could be witnessing the beginning of some very disturbing events in U.S. history. 

I hope not and maybe I'm going a little overboard with paranoia but these people were completely unafraid of any consequences here. And they are zealots which makes them all extremely dangerous. I also think there are a lot more out there who share their views. The division in the United States has not been this profound since the abolition of slavery. 

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5 minutes ago, peacectryguy said:

Despite Trumps artificial and scripted chastising  and condemnation of the acts and perpetrators of this attack on the capitol, I truly believe it is exactly what he wants. I also believe that he purposely held back the national guard by ignoring repeated requests and calls so the rioters could get in and do the damage they intended to do. I also believe that because of how easily they were able to pull this off, it emboldens these neo nazis and white supremacists to take this even further.

   I highly doubt this was his plan. Keep in mind he still had a path for 2024 with many Republicans ready to back him up. But after years of getting away unscathed from his nonsensical incendiary rhetoric, I don't think he seriously expected things would go that far. For once in his life reality kicked in, alienating Republicans, business partners and other allies.

   It's unclear if he'll resign before being impeached(again). But no matter how many pardons he signs, states Attorney Generals and other other law firms will line up with criminal charges and civil lawsuits. Whatever his way out, him, his family and businesses are screwed.

   As for the divided state of the country, things will get better once the pandemic dies down and people will take a break from the internet by working and actually going outside. And with major social media platforms finally understanding their powers and responsibility, they will react a bit quicker when faced with agitators. There will always remain unfiltered platforms for fringe groups, but they won't be as present and tolerated as they used to be.

   Healing will take time. But after the events of the week, it's at least going in the right direction.

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There need to be consequences.

Every time Republicans do something, the Democrats want to move on and avoid unpleasantness. Let bygones be bygones. Surely they've learned their lesson now.

And they have learned the lesson... which is that they can get away with it. And so they come back for more. Bigger. Harder. Nastier.

I wonder if the Democrats will make the same mistake again. I think they might well. And... next time will be even worse than this.

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6 hours ago, Phaedrus said:

I wonder if the Democrats will make the same mistake again. I think they might well. And... next time will be even worse than this.

  The political pendulum will eventually lean on the other side, but I highly doubt it will happen in the next four years.

  Democrats never gave full control to their far left members and most Republicans are more comfortable with Biden than ever been with Trump. And no matter what they say about Pelosi, she's not into extreme left ideologies. The only reasons she's pushing hard for impeachment is because the President is alone with nuclear codes and many Republicans and National Security personnel are also worried.

  The Republican party been broken since the end of the Bush/Cheney era. Their associations with the Tea Party was at best mixed, but giving full control to the Breitbart tin foil audience created this disaster.

  We won't see much extreme politics in the next 4 years as most efforts will be fighting the pandemic and economic recovery. Many executive orders will be undone and most new ones will likely be for public health and safety reasons.

   As the Republicans party will lose a vast portion of their voters, will be interesting to see if they'll go back to their grassroots or associate themselves with new growing movements. And if the pro-Trump/QAnon generation ends up creating their own party, this could be the end of the traditional U.S. two-party system.

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5 hours ago, Greenteal said:

 We won't see much extreme politics in the next 4 years as most efforts will be fighting the pandemic and economic recovery. Many executive orders will be undone and most new ones will likely be for public health and safety reasons.

   As the Republicans party will lose a vast portion of their voters, will be interesting to see if they'll go back to their grassroots or associate themselves with new growing movements. And if the pro-Trump/QAnon generation ends up creating their own party, this could be the end of the traditional U.S. two-party system.

I disagree with you there. Right now, around half of Republicans approve of the riots on Wednesday, according to the polls we have. That's a significant chunk of the country. The far right in America is no longer the fringe; it's a serious political movement. It is not going away.

I think the best option right now is that lifelong Republicans start to realize that you can be Republican, or you can be a decent human being, but not both - and there will be a split between the far right and those who want a normal political party. At that point the people who have broken away will no longer have to placate the facist mob.

Sane politicians will undoubtedly try to get on with dealing with the pandemic, and improving the economy... but they will not be able to ignore the existential threat to their country.

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2 hours ago, Phaedrus said:

I disagree with you there. Right now, around half of Republicans approve of the riots on Wednesday, according to the polls we have. That's a significant chunk of the country. The far right in America is no longer the fringe; it's a serious political movement. It is not going away.

    There big differences between modern/more progressive conservatism and the brand of nonsense Trump brought in the party. Republican Congressmen and Senators still supporting Trump, mostly do for their re-election in two years. The few real loyalists like Matt Gaetz, are getting more isolated from their own party.

     As for the general American population, still about 40% still believe and follow Trump. But that number never changed in the past 4 years. Once Trump will disappear from public eye, that number will shrink and Real conservatives/Republicans will need to determine if they still want to be associated with those groups.

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25 minutes ago, Greenteal said:

    There big differences between modern/more progressive conservatism and the brand of nonsense Trump brought in the party. Republican Congressmen and Senators still supporting Trump, mostly do for their re-election in two years. The few real loyalists like Matt Gaetz, are getting more isolated from their own party.

     As for the general American population, still about 40% still believe and follow Trump. But that number never changed in the past 4 years. Once Trump will disappear from public eye, that number will shrink and Real conservatives/Republicans will need to determine if they still want to be associated with those groups.

I really hope you’re right about the 40% declining with Trump out of the picture.  They’ve been pretty resilient aver the past few years.  

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2 minutes ago, Sharpe said:

I really hope you’re right about the 40% declining with Trump out of the picture.  They’ve been pretty resilient aver the past few years.  

People can't live in their parents(or grandparents) basements for ever. Eventually they got to see some light, get a real job and a real life.

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Politicians need to realize that they are public servants who are there to try do what’s best for their constituents. I know this is a naive thought, but political parties should work together to bring their respective countries up. It’s sad to see that politics has become such big business that the common person is forgotten about and this may be very detrimental in another generation or two.

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I think it would be naive to think we have seen the worst and things will calm down. Trump has literally millions of followers that have completely bought into his rhetoric and bullshit for the last few years. These people have become "true believers" that they are right and they are willing to go to war. They are already planning more attacks around the inauguration. The FBI is rounding up a lot of the perpetrators of Jan 6 but they are really just the tip of the iceberg.

As for Trump, he has finally had his social media megaphone shut down but it is too little, too late. He knows that he has no hope of being nominated or elected in 2024 by any democratic legal means so that's not an issue. The real problem is no longer Trump himself but the massive unification of the radical right that he has created and openly embraced. These people were already out there in smaller splinter groups but now they have become united in one cause based on Trumps endless conspiracy theories and they are all easily brainwashed anyway. Most of these people are so far gone, they are ready to die in this insane effort to take the country from the dems who they view as the evil enemy. 

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I also think the Dems are in a very precarious position regarding Trump in the aftermath of this. He should be charged and convicted of several very serious crimes, Impeachment after his term is very likely as well. But if they make the example of him they should, they could very well incite his followers even more by allowing them to view him as a martar. 

I also don't think the Covid situation is near it's end. Yes, they've got the vaccine now but it will take time to erradicate it and Biden's administration will be under the gun because people aren't going to be patient. The U.S. is a powder keg getting ready to blow. It's been brewing for a long time. 

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3 minutes ago, peacectryguy said:

I think it would be naive to think we have seen the worst and things will calm down. Trump has literally millions of followers that have completely bought into his rhetoric and bullshit for the last few years. These people have become "true believers" that they are right and they are willing to go to war. They are already planning more attacks around the inauguration. The FBI is rounding up a lot of the perpetrators of Jan 6 but they are really just the tip of the iceberg.

    While I agree there still too many uneducated basement dwellers drinking the Trump "Kool-Aid", I doubt the base will grow from the recent events. Followers who capitalized from the movement are leaving as the venture is less profitable and even the most permissive social media platforms like "Parler" are under strong pressure to control the hate speech.

     Right now, Mike Pence is getting death threat! This is how bad things are. Quite funny to see many identified in Wednesday's assault trying to say they acted in the moment now their future is destroyed. This should serve as a message and a cold shower to anyone willing to take that path.

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11 minutes ago, peacectryguy said:

I also think the Dems are in a very precarious position regarding Trump in the aftermath of this. He should be charged and convicted of several very serious crimes, Impeachment after his term is very likely as well. But if they make the example of him they should, they could very well incite his followers even more by allowing them to view him as a martar. 

      Don't forget Trump said he would walk with them to the steps of Congress and the Senate. But instead went back to the White House as many of them lost their lives and potential future some still had.

      Some will still ignore those facts, but for many this was a cold shower and return to reality. And if some return for more on inauguration day, they'll meet far more solid resistance as secret services are far more trigger happy.

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I just don’t think you can pour that much gasoline on the fire and have it put out quickly.   Trump capitalized on feelings of racial motivated fear.  With or without him that sentiment isn’t going away.  I sincerely hope that with a new sensible administration in place some much needed change can happen but it will take time and effort
Check out this CBC article
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjcop_C-JHuAhXJh-AKHeHwBu4QFjAAegQIBRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fnew-brunswick%2Fextremist-far-right-groups-nb-1.5866689&usg=AOvVaw2Pe58Rviczn09PerCLAIAt

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1 minute ago, Sharpe said:

I just don’t think you can pour that much gasoline on the fire and have it put out quickly.   Trump capitalized on feelings of racial motivated fear.  With or without him that sentiment isn’t going away. 

  Not saying the process will be quick, but at least won't be ignored and condoned at a presidential level as it was in the past 4 years. All heads of those groups will under surveillance and prosecuted if behind Wednesday's or any future event.

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    Also, will be interesting to know where Trump will be on inauguration day and if he'll keep or not the lifetime protection from the Secret Service. So far, the only President to relinquish the benefit was Nixon in 1985.

    Answers to both questions should give an idea how the day should go.

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Just now, Sharpe said:

Oh you know damn well he’ll be golfing on Inauguration Day 

  A possibility, but the question is where.

  If citizen Trump dismissed the Secret Service and flies out the country, you can expect the inauguration to be a blood bath.

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