An Interview With... Piper North - Challenges Faced Being Non-Binary

[lydiahardwood 2201]

Happy Sunday beauties! I am so excited to share this interview with @pipernorth with you. It's about a topic I know I need to be better educated on, and I'm sure you guys will appreciate the points raised here too. If you enjoyed this, please remember to like and comment! ❤️ 

 

Q: Hey Piper. It’s lovely to get the opportunity to talk to you and get to know you better. First things first, can you tell me a bit about yourself and your career in this industry so far? 

A: Thanks for asking me to do this! I’m a full-service sex worker (escort) offering service to all genders as a trans non-binary, queer service provider. This has been my full-time job since starting in February 2019. I’ll be expanding my service options to include therapeutic and somatic sessions in the next couple of years, as I’m currently in school for social services (counselling) and somatic sex therapy.

 

Q: For anyone that isn’t familiar with the term “non-binary”, can you explain it in your own words? 

A: It’s someone, generally, who does not identify as strictly a binary man or a woman, or is someone who is a type of combination of genders or outside of standard gender identities (not to be confused with intersex).

 

Q: I apologise in advance if any of these questions sound ignorant - I’ll be honest that this isn’t a topic I know enough about. Which is why I am grateful for this interview with you! So what about gender fluidity, is that the same thing? 

A: Gender fluidity can fall under the non-binary umbrella but isn’t always the same. Genderfluid typically means someone whose gender is fluid rather than set – It can mean someone feeling more pull to one gender over another and having that change over time, whether that be man, woman, or something else. That being said, not all non-binary people are genderfluid.

 

Q: Are there any other terms for non-binary we should be aware of? 

A: The most common terms used for non-binary can include genderfluid, bigender, or agender. It’s important to use the term set by the person and not make assumptions about what term they use or gender they identify with.

 

Q: So I’ll hold my hands up here, the reason we are even doing this interview is because of a cock up on my part. I added your schedule to our social media but used the incorrect pronouns for you. You rightly called me out for that. Tell me, is that something you get a lot? 

A: Daily. It’s fucking exhausting to be constantly correcting people. I find I pull away from being in public or engaging with people outside of my close inner circle just so I don’t have to deal with it and do the work of validating myself later.

 

Q: How does it make you feel when someone uses the wrong pronouns? 

A: A lot of the time I get frustrated or angry, especially when it’s someone who has seen that I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns and just doesn’t do the work to use my proper pronouns. From those people, I see it as them not caring enough to do the work. From strangers, it’s a lot of eye-rolling on my part for the constant assumption. For a long time I had space for misgendering but the longer I deal with it, the less patience I have.

 

Q: Generally speaking, do people apologise and then correct themselves in future? 

A: Eh, rarely. The worst part is when people make it about them. If someone corrects you on pronoun use, just simply repeat the sentence with the right pronouns and move on. Excuses shift the focus to the person who misgendered… then I have to make them feel better or validate their excuse, which is just more unnecessary labour for me.

 

Q: What about the flip side, does anyone get rude/inconsiderate? 

A: All. The. Time. I get it mostly from men who end up saying really degrading and transphobic things to me. I’ve had death threats (from civvy men and from people contacting me through work), insults about my genitalia and body, degrading comments about my general existence, and threats of violence or sexual abuse – all stemming from my gender identity.

 

Q: What about people who aren’t necessarily rude or unwilling, but perhaps a bit ignorant? In your experience, what’s the best way to educate these people? 

A: I have yet to find the “best” way to educate those who are wilfully ignorant. To be perfectly honest, this kind of work (educating others) is the work of allies to the trans community, not trans people themselves. Trans people put up with shit on a daily basis just living our lives and existing, and we put a lot of work into keeping ourselves safe and relatively happy. For cisgendered or heterosexual allies, they have a lot more capacity because they don’t have to put up with that, and I call on them to help us eliminate transphobia.

 

Q: I know that the concept isn’t a new one, but it’s definitely being spoken about more now. Have you always realised you were non-binary? Or has this recent surge in awareness made you recognise it more? 

A: I’ve known from childhood that I was queer but felt different from the general gay community. I knew that trans people existed, as I have a few trans extended family members, but never exactly wanted to identify specifically as a man or a woman. It was about seven years ago that I was exploring “alternative” gender academic writings and suddenly, it all made sense. I slowly starting experimenting with pronouns and came out fully about four years ago.

 

Q: Relating to work, what are your clients like? Do you often get non-binary clients? 

A: I don’t often, no, but would absolutely love to! Since starting work nearly two years ago I’ve only had a small number of non-binary or queer clients. The advertising platforms available are catered to cis men so getting word out to trans and queer clients is more difficult. Majority of my clients are cishet (cisgendered, heterosexual) men.

 

Q: I can see from your website that you’re a very caring person who caters to different people and minorities. I love that about you! 

A: I see marginalized people, yes (a term I use rather than minority). I want all people of all races, genders, sexualities to feel seen, held, and celebrated in who they are – and know that they are worthy of connection and intimacy.

 

Q: Can you give us some tips on how to be respectful when talking to a non-binary person? For example, are there any microaggressions where people may not realise they’re being offensive? 

A: Don’t bring up their gender unless they do first. Let them take the lead on any gender-related subjects or conversations. Just talk to us like you’d talk to anybody else! We’re still human, just like you, and want to be treated as such.

 

Q: Thanks so much for your time, Piper. Is there anything else you’d like to add? 

A: Thanks for asking me to do this! I hope it'll help open up some conversations and encourage further learning in those who need to do more work and understanding. For further reading, check out this resource on gender identities (https://teentalk.ca/learn-about/gender-identity/) and the gender spectrum (https://genderspectrum.org/articles/understanding-gender). 

 

 

[Sharpe 674]

Thanks for sharing Piper.  I had noticed your ads before and I was always struck by how caring you are.

I also appreciate this interview.  Definitely need more discussion and understanding around this topic.

Thanks as always @lydiahardwood

 

[Allie Zeon 2018]

Ah eye opener! Thanks @lydiahardwoodwho again brings someone extraordinary for the interview.  Oh Piper, thanks for Sharing.

it’s must be hard to “break” the norms and coming out as a non binary provider.  Two thumbs up for you 👍  

[MRT87 37]

Q: How does it make you feel when someone uses the wrong pronouns? 
A: A lot of the time I get frustrated or angry, especially when it’s someone who has seen that I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns and just doesn’t do the work to use my proper pronouns. From those people, I see it as them not caring enough to do the work. From strangers, it’s a lot of eye-rolling on my part for the constant assumption. For a long time I had space for misgendering but the longer I deal with it, the less patience I have.

I think we as a society can do more to help create a better platform to help educate the next generation. I feel people's lack of understanding/awareness can cause individuals to feel they need to be extra cautious to avoid offending when they interact with individuals who identify themselves such as Non-binary. 

From my perspective, I feel within a professional environment, we live in fear from complaints/lawsuits and maybe it is that fear that causes people to be more so nervous and not realize that the fact they could be doing more harm than good.

 

Great Interview both - I really did learn from this!

[NotchJohnson 198846]

Thank you @lydiahardwood for inviting Piper for this Sunday interview.  I have learned so much from her, it's nice to get this education directly from a person like her.

 

[PiperNorth 95]

@NotchJohnson my pronouns are they/them.

[PiperNorth 95]

@MRT87 I can understand the nervousness around being “right”/accommodating. As someone who has worked in environments where gender was not handled appropriately, I will say the eggshell walking can often make the environment more uncomfortable than flubbing up. Do you feel you’re unable to ask questions to make sure you’re saying/doing the right thing? 
 

And there’s no need to wait for future generations to receive the education - if my parents in their 60s can go from transphobes/homophobes to being understanding and supportive, anyone can at any age! Education can start anytime. 🙂

[waterat 20737]

2 hours ago, PiperNorth said:

..... my pronouns are they/them.

Thanks for this - have to admit that I read through the interview twice and, given all the terminology, I still wasn't certain which pronouns you use and prefer. I had intended to ask!

I've got two close 'family' members who have transitioned and they both chose new names to distinguish from their sex assigned birth names. This helps me to get my brain working so that I can use the appropriate pronouns and break old habits. They still are willing to smile and rarely get to correct me before I apologize/correct myself. The apology is not expected but I am Canadian after all..... sorry! One of these 'family' members is the former partner (10+ years) of one of my children and the other a teenage great 'nephew'. I've purchased them gift cards to Venus Envy, a local sex positive store here in Ottawa (and Halifax, I think), which has great resources and literature for those curious about transition and the general public. 

https://venusenvy.ca/

Thank you both @PiperNorth and @lydiahardwood for providing the interview

 

[PiperNorth 95]

@waterat You're right, I didn't state my pronouns in this post. I actually intentionally left them out, curious to know what the takeaway from this interview would be - Where Lydia mentioned misgendering me as motivation to do this interview, questioned about people using the wrong pronouns, and I answered a direct question about what being misgendered feels like. I was curious to know if anyone would end up asking me what my pronouns are before making assumptions based on my appearance or their perception of my gender. I suppose it's partially a lesson to get others to question their own gender assumptions and learn how to approach the subject of pronouns (which is as simple as, "my pronouns are [whatever they are], what are yours?").

[Allie Zeon 2018]

5 hours ago, PiperNorth said:
 

And there’s no need to wait for future generations to receive the education - if my parents in their 60s can go from transphobes/homophobes to being understanding and supportive, anyone can at any age! Education can start anytime. 🙂

Agreed.  Ultimately, those who love you the way you are will still love you dear.  Happy to hear you have the core support.  We need to spread love to everyone no matter the gender, races, sexual preference, ages....

[Phaedrus 209197]

Thanks for a great interview, @PiperNorth! And thanks as always to @lydiahardwood for facilitating. It's great to see an interview on this because there's increasing awareness of issues around gender in the world at large, which usually manifests as people being awkward about it and then trying to pretend the issue doesn't exist. It's one of the areas where the sex work community is way ahead of the population at large.

An off-topic question, though: what's a somatic session?

[grizzlybear 246]

Thank you #lidiahardwood for this interview and PiperNorth for participating. I have one objection though, it's the term Piper used.  "willfully ignorant." I don't think all of us are "willfully" ignorant, just ignorant, as I am. I apologize if we don't get your pronouns correct, a lot of us Neanderthals don't even know what a pronoun is, never mind what non-binary means. I'm in my 50's and have seen a lot of changes in gender identification. I can tell you, since my teens and peer pressure, I don't judge anyone for their gender or sexual identification, as is probably true for a lot of people you find "willfully ignorant." There are plenty of people out there who are accepting and supportive as I am. There so many pronouns out there now, it's hard to keep them straight unless you are part of that population. The pronoun doesn't describe who you are, just be true to yourself. I only ask that you be patient with those of us who are less educated, (ignorant).

[Kitten 784]

Loving the venusenvy love!

[SarahAlexxx 1438]

On 2/22/2021 at 9:49 AM, PiperNorth said:

@NotchJohnson my pronouns are they/them.

"A lot of the time I get frustrated or angry, especially when it’s someone who has seen that I’m non-binary and use they/them pronouns and just doesn’t do the work to use my proper pronouns."

Question number 6. ^