Negotiating

[gc1968 2033]

...............

(Sorry, trying to respond to a specific post)

[igab 5629]

I'm kind of late into this debate but here's the way I look at it.

When I book an appointment with my Doctor, Lawyer or Dentist the fees are non-negotiable...none of you would ever dream of asking those worthy folks for a discount because you know it's just not going to happen. You also respect them too much to suggest such an arrangement.

 

I agree that there are sometimes promotional considerations...specials offered for loyalty visiting or CERB gents or "time of the month" specials but those are offered by the SP of her own volition and not under the pressure of negotiation.They are business choices made freely and openly.

 

I've had conversations with SPs who tell me that they get calls from guys who start by saying something like "I'd really like to book with you but you're too expensive..." for most of them that's the end of the conversation. It shows that the caller is in fact calling the wrong person..."Sorry wrong number!" is what one of my ATFs used to say just before abruptly ending the conversation.

 

As the Mod stated...find a lady you like in line with your budget and go and enjoy....if you don't then you don't repeat and you look again. It's really just that simple.

[craig101 3213]

I'm kind of late into this debate but here's the way I look at it.

When I book an appointment with my Doctor, Lawyer or Dentist the fees are non-negotiable...none of you would ever dream of asking those worthy folks for a discount because you know it's just not going to happen. You also respect them too much to suggest such an arrangement.

 

I agree that there are sometimes promotional considerations...specials offered for loyalty visiting or CERB gents or "time of the month" specials but those are offered by the SP of her own volition and not under the pressure of negotiation.They are business choices made freely and openly.

 

I've had conversations with SPs who tell me that they get calls from guys who start by saying something like "I'd really like to book with you but you're too expensive..." for most of them that's the end of the conversation. It shows that the caller is in fact calling the wrong person..."Sorry wrong number!" is what one of my ATFs used to say just before abruptly ending the conversation.

 

As the Mod stated...find a lady you like in line with your budget and go and enjoy....if you don't then you don't repeat and you look again. It's really just that simple.

 

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy.

 

"Interesting.

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

[Genevieve Marceau 68000]

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

 

 

- Your right (or left) hand: you had it since you were born. Spit in it and jerk off. It's always free.

[Guest realnicehat]

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy.

 

"Interesting.

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

 

 

So which lady do you plan to put on retainer and see every two weeks for the next ten years? ;)

[Guest ***nno**n***]

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy.

 

"Interesting.

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

 

So you have decided to compare these professions to an SP?

How many times have you fucked your barber? Or got your dentist to suck your cock? Or maybe got a massage from your lawyer? Or asked your banker for a 69?

[Guest realnicehat]

Post deleted. Sometimes my fingers get ahead of my brain.

[Guest ***nsut***jr]

Seems like a good time for another youtube link and maybe a few negotiating tips.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVpQXiqLTg

[lipualipua 4704]

@Gegefatale : please argue your case; no indirect insults.

 

Additional Comments:

@realnicehat : thank you. You see, insult and ridicule are the last refuge of those who can't argue their case.

[Annessa 22743]

@Annessa : sure the song is going on and on and I invite more people to join in for after all the more the merrier or in this case, the more we will all become acquainted with other's views; which can never be a bad thing. Regards.

 

 

great! as long as those getting acquainted with other people's views are actually LISTENING to their views ;) thats never a bad things either....regards

[Guest realnicehat]

@Gegefatale : please argue your case; no indirect insults.

 

Additional Comments:

@realnicehat : thank you. You see, insult and ridicule are the last refuge of those who can't argue their case.

 

Actually, I have deleted the post for which you are thanking me.

 

Upon rereading it I realized it was perhaps a bit presumptuous of me to offer direction to another member, much as I feel it is presumptuous of you to give instruction to Gegefatale.

 

Perhaps I am wrong, and please do forgive me if I am, but unless you or I are mods we really have no right to (even politely) tell another poster what to do.

 

You mention arguing ones case twice. I think the issue with this thread has been the arguing.

 

At this point I have to question whether certain people are interested in a frank discussion regarding negotiation or if they are just trying to win the internet.

 

When a thread is being openly mocked how much value can it really have?

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Kicking myself for even starting such an important thread. It's now a joke. So sad.

[VedaSloan 119179]

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy.

 

"Interesting.

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

 

 

None of it has been debunked. Many of the posters have told you, repeatedly, that comparing sex work to other professions is a false analogy.

 

At this point I'm convinced that you just want to be right--listening doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.

[star99 4852]

I never ever do this to MA's or SP's. plain and simple... its not polite nor tolerated in any forum. I don't understand why people try to do this.

[Guest ***nno**n***]

Kicking myself for even starting such an important thread. It's now a joke. So sad.

 

I think this was a very important topic and thank you meg for bringing it up.

 

It has gotten heated and sidetracked (I'm guilty too) but I think at the same time there has been some great insight and information that I previously did not have before.

 

Of course we are going to have widely diverse opinions and it is a great thing to have in the forums because I can hear sides i wouldn't necessarily have thought of before.

 

You can't put this business in a generalized box with other professions.

It does bug me when it's compared to McDonald's or the dentist but again that's just my opinion.

 

My hope is that if it helps even 1 person understand where I am coming from I'm ok with that. I certainly don't hope to convince everyone, and the ones that are determined to hold onto their view are welcome to do it.

 

I then can take this information and use it however it helps me the most.

 

For me personally, it has been VERY helpful hearing what the other ladies have had to say and some of the gentlemen too.

 

Thanks again Meg, you rock! :-)

[bowtie 1717]

So you have decided to compare these professions to an SP?

How many times have you fucked your barber? Or got your dentist to suck your cock? Or maybe got a massage from your lawyer? Or asked your banker for a 69?

 

 

Well I am sure you have not fixed any teeth or prepared any wills either....lol:confused0024:

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Well I am sure you have not fixed any teeth or prepared any wills either....lol:confused0024:

 

Disrespectful.

[lipualipua 4704]

@realnicehat : I hope next time your fingers won't get ahead of your brain!. If in my view someone is treating another unfairly, I just can't keep mute. It is not presumptuousness. If I am wrong in doing this so be it.

 

Additional Comments:

@Annessa : I sure am listening; in fact some have provided well-reasoned arguments.

[sandimoon 72517]

I have refrained, until now, from contributing since I am truly

fortunate enough to be resting on my regular laurels.

They don't barter & in contrast,

my rates are no higher than they were a few years ago.

Me happy, they happy!

But I would like to add a few comments in respect to the whole thing.

Firstly, negotiating, in & of itslef is not our bone of contention.

I could give a rodent's rectum how another SP runs her business.

If she is open to working her way to a mutually acceptable middle ground,

who the hell am I to judge?

Her life, her body, her standards,

NOT mine.

What makes me angry, as it does other ladies,

is the self entitled belief that due to the specific industry in which we

exist, attempts to not take NO for an answer are ignored.

If I get an e-mail from a man who has clearly read my site

that starts with,

So & so only charges whatever, can you match it.

I simply ignore them.

The same with requests for things I don't do like greek, fetishes, what have you.

Why?

Because I am smart enough to know that if a guy I have

never met won't accept, understand & respect my boundaries

PRIOR to us meeting,

what in the world would make me think he will take no

for an answer when he has me alone in a room?

Cause trust me,

if some douche tries to stab my sphincter with his winkie,

one of us will be coming out of that room in handcuffs, one on a stretcher.

Guess what, HE will be the same person.

So I simply do not entertain even the possibilty of that scenario.

It is my BEST screening tool.

I use it to avoid problems.

Another:

Threads like this.

There are great men on Cerb, guys I would jump in a minute.

And then there are the ones who boast about bartering, pushing boundaries,

stealing a few kisses, " let's see how far I can go"

"she advertises no CIM but I couldn't help it"

& other charming rapist rhetoric.

So let me inform you of something you may not know:

WE TALK.

About everything.

And we don't just do it here.

I myself am in 2 Canadian Ladies' Lounges, 2 in the U.S. 1 in the U.K

1 in Europe as I am fluent in French.

And I talk.

Because at the end of the day, while some men would love to believe

that we are all catty, bitchy, competitive skanks who are at war with each other,

this is an absolute fallacy.

One generated in your own mind to justify that the reason

your intended failed to respond to you has

NOTHING to do with your online persona.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

It absolutley does.

And it isn't only on CERB.

We are everywhere.

So you have your opinion, fair enough.

Send those texts, e-mails, BBM's, make those calls & wonder why

she doesn't answer.

Because when 20+ ladies try to break it down as to why your behaviour is not

cool, yet you persist in picking fly shit out of pepper to

rationalize it, remember these words:

WE aren't the only ones advertising.

Sandi

[Phaedrus 209521]

Those numbers seem to be getting better and better as we go on. It started off like 20 to 0. The more we talk about it and the more we discuss the more those numbers are going to swing.

 

Do you honestly believe you've convinced anyone of anything? Most people understand that attempts to haggle with SPs don't generally go down well. I'll grant that you've managed to get one or two like-minded individuals to crawl out of the woodwork, but that seems to be the limit of your accomplishments thus far.

 

If you believe you're winning, tell me... whose mind have you changed?

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

Most of this has already been debunked.

 

Nope. You have debunked nothing, convinced nobody, achieved nothing save (probably) getting yourself on a few ladies' blacklists.

 

@Gegefatale : please argue your case; no indirect insults.

 

I might ask the same of you, lipualipua. Go ahead. I'm all ears.

 

Just to save you both clicking and scrolling, here's my original questions. You've already had all weekend to think about them. You can have as much longer as you like. But the longer you wait, and the more you fail to come up with any sort of coherent argument, the less likely you are to convince anyone.

 

So, I have a question for those who believe it's OK to negotiate SPs' rates, or believe that at least there's no harm trying.

 

Let's think for a moment about what the result of your attempt to negotiate could be.

 

• You may get instantly blacklisted by the SP, either privately or more widely (they do talk, you know).
  
• You may get ignored by the SP.
  
• You may get told, "No," and see her at her posted rate, having given her reason to resent you. You probably aren't getting all those YMMV things.
  
• You may successfully negotiate a discount, see the SP, and get reduced service (perhaps CBJ instead of BBBJ, or she'll watch the clock like a hawk).
  
• You may successfully negotiate a discount and tick all the boxes on the menu, but do so with a SP who resents being short-changed and who probably won't give you a top-notch experience as a result. And again, don't even think about the YMMV stuff.
  

Note that I simply don't believe you'll ever get exactly the same service for a lower rate as you would have done if you hadn't negotiated; the omission of that option was not accidental.

 

My question is: even if you could guarantee the final result, which is probably the best you can possibly expect, is it worth it in return for the few dollars you've saved? If so, why?

 

And even if you answered "yes" to that: given the significant chances of one of the less desirable results... do you still consider it worth asking her to give you a discount? And again, if so, why?

 

I'm afraid I simply don't see how asking for discounts from SPs could possibly work out to my advantage in the long run, so I'd be grateful if someone could explain how it works.

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

I'm afraid I simply don't see how asking for discounts from SPs could possibly work out to my advantage in the long run, so I'd be grateful if someone could explain how it works.

 

Phaedrus, my friend, you don't see it because your interests are very different.

 

Those who insist that it's good to haggle with or put pressure on us to cut them a special deal aren't really interested in negotiating as much as they're interested in control overall. In my experience, the question is not so much about negotiation as it is about who sets the fee? Who has the right to decide what a lady's time and intimate companionship is worth?

 

Underneath this question are a host of control issues. Who decides what is or is not acceptable; what we will or won't do; what we should or should not expect; how we're going to work, where and when; how many people we may entertain and under what conditions; what risks we should accept as unavoidable for ourselves; how much our safety and security may be risked; what we should expect from neighbours, friends, family, our community if we're discovered to be paid companions--these and many other related things are all about the rights that we women have to determine our own actions.

 

Some men don't accept that we have a right to as much autonomy and integrity of ourselves as persons as they are and so they want to control us, to limit us, to deny, dehumanize, depersonalize, degrade and demean us beginning with our essential worth as human beings.

 

Those men never make good clients. As Sandi pointed out, above, by announcing that they expect special considerations, they communicate that they expect to be the ones who control their time with us and everything that happens in it.

 

It's not about the fee. It's about our right to make choices and decisions that could result in them not getting what they want, on their terms, when they want it.

[lipualipua 4704]

@Phaedrus : You wrote : "I might ask the same of you, lipualipua. Go ahead. I'm all ears."

 

My posts are there for all to read. I believe I have argued my point of view clearly. For example see post #152 of this thread.

[Gregallen 120]

Firstly let me say hello, new user here this is my first post. In fact I am a new hobbyist as well I have never met a SP before but plan on doing just that VERY soon.

 

That said, I want to thank you all for this thread. I never thought about how negotiating would be viewed by the SP. I started an email with a local SP and guess I was negotiating, I am simply looking for an all around oral session, DATY, BBBJ you get the picture. So I was asking is this could work into her massage session... After a few email she showed me that a reg session is better even though I was not looking for FS. Now I feel like a dick, while I never tried to change the cost I was trying to "sneak" in other services (DATY) into a certain type of session. My question to you is now this... Should I apologize to her explaining what I now know. I don't want my first session with a SP to be tainted.

 

@Phaedrus I see what you mean... Saving a few dollars is NOT worth screwing up what could be an excellent session... I know this now :(

[Genevieve Marceau 68000]

@Gegefatale : please argue your case; no indirect insults.

 

Additional Comments:

@realnicehat : thank you. You see, insult and ridicule are the last refuge of those who can't argue their case.

 

There is nothing to argue in the obvious my dear. You are not even close to realize how his post was just as insulting. What can I do but laughing at this whole situation with sarcasm?

[lipualipua 4704]

@Gegefatale : when insults come in, enlightenment goes out. Craig wrote something which you may have found offensive. If so let him know why he is wrong instead of throwing indirect insults his way. By the way, Craig and I are not arguing for negotiations where the lady has clearly stated her donations. Writing for me specifically, I am referring to out-of -ordinary encounters where the lady has no donation schedule precisely because (a) such encounters are few and (b) conditions under which they occur differ widely, making it impossible for ladies to have a set schedule of donations. This very important aspect of my position has been ignored by most contributors to this thread. I am very certain that ladies I have seen, both Cerbites and non-Cerbites know that I am not a neanderthal or a control freak. I just like debating ideas. Please read through post #152 of this thread to see my point of view. Regards.