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Escort Laws in Plain English

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Guest wtf

Hi everyone,

 

I am curious, can someone explain in simple words or reference actual legal sites that explain how the law sees the escort business.

 

1) What is legal and illegal for girls

2) what is legal and illegal for guys

3) what is legal and illegal for drivers

4) what is legal and illegal for owners of angency

5) how advertising can be legal or illegal

6) why you hear police bust on escorts agency, girls and guys ;

7) what are the legal recourse for girls, guys, driver and owner of agency

8) what protection do agency provide for these girls?

 

If it legal why do you hear raids/sweep in the newspaper?

 

This whole thing doesn't have a clear answer...can some turn shed some light on this grey area.

 

thanks

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I'm pretty sure all these raids and sweeps are only for the street level prostitutes and are brought on by a complaint from someone who lives in the affected area. I think?

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My interpritation only (Seek legal advise and do not take my word for any of this - or read it yourself I supplied a link below and come to your own conclusions) - Also I am short on time so I am typing this very fast so if anything is wrong I am sure the other members here who have been curious enough to read the law can fill in the gaps.

 

1) What is legal and illegal for girls

Section 212 of the criminal code of Canada (Here is the link http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/section-212.html) - ANYONE CAN READ THIS IT'S NOT OVER THE TOP - VERY EASY READ FOR EVERYONE!

 

In Canada prostitution is LEGAL but solicitating it is not (at least not in public). Common Bawdy house is illegal (AKA Whore House or Brothel) so run-N-tugs who offer FS and incalls are illegal (but are rarely bothered unless drugs, violence or disturbances are involved - or sometimes politians like to stir the pot). Pimping (living off the avails) is illegal as well and underage escorting for anyone under 18 years of age.

 

2) what is legal and illegal for guys

Don't solicit sex in public (Street Walkers) and don't get caught in a common bawdy house (especially with your pants down!)

 

3) what is legal and illegal for drivers

Living off the avails, if your making money off the girls prostitution you could be charged but chances are if you are not the actual pimp you will not be in much trouble unless you were doing the pimps bidding too or involved in drugs.

 

4) what is legal and illegal for owners of angency

Same... pimping (living off the avails). If the agency is run professionally and not "PIMP LIKE" they would be in the grey area of the law. If the agency is telling the girls when they must work, forcing them to work in any way or feeding them drugs (any common pimp activity) they are in the red and could be under a lot of heat.

 

5) how advertising can be legal or illegal

It's legal. The criminal court of Canada past a discision that allows the ladies to advertise in newspapers, online, etc... and be as discriptive as the individule media will allow. Some newspapers restrict sexually explicit ads for offensive reasons others like eye and now magazine don't really have many restrictions.

 

6) why you hear police bust on escorts agency, girls and guys ;

Usually street girls, massage spa's offering FS, a brothel where a neighbour complained or it was run by a pimp.

 

7) what are the legal recourse for girls, guys, driver and owner of agency

If they are truely pimping the girls they could go to jail and all sorts of nasty stuff. Girls will usually get off if they agree to testify against the pimp, a good lawer would help but would cost you big bucks... bottom line don't pimp the girls!! If you do your just another asshole.

 

8) what protection do agency provide for these girls?

Legit agencies often screen calls with caller ID, call back the number and have the girl call in for a "Check IN" when they arrive and feel safe. If they fail to check in the agency will call both the girls cell and the number the call was booked on (and often the driver as well) then if they can not reach the girl the police are called. Some drivers will go knock on the door but it's best if the police are brought in. Since outcall escorting / prositution is legal the police can be brought in and check for fowl play!

 

If it legal why do you hear raids/sweep in the newspaper?

Is it election time? If not then it's probably organized crime with high risk fs massage spa's (Lately it's asian and european women being lured here to Canada to work in FS massage parlours and being forced to work here - some scary shit goes on with some) out in BC they have a huge court case for a asian forced prostitution ring run by a female asian pimp but they suspect it goes much higher then her...

 

If your planning to be the next pimp, think twice! All it takes is one of the girls to realize your a asshole and your in jail getting pimped yourself. If your planning to open a agency you need to do MUCH more homework!!

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Guest wtf

Thanks for the great reply...and link.

 

I've always wonder how this whole thing works out...cause I see escort ads everywhere and wonder why these raids happen...it's like a big show.

 

Just a couple more follow up questions....

 

1) So why would girls require agency if they can legally do outcalls?

 

2) Can you provide details of what running a 'professional agency'? Does the agency require a special license and or licenses for each girls? Isn't the agency really 'pimping'???

 

3) If the driver is just driving girls...is he actually liable for actions that happen after she leaves the car?

 

4) "Living of the avails of girls" - Just wondering, the concept is strange cause these girls spend money in every direction so doesn't that mean directly/indirectly all of society is living of the avails? What's the difference if she uses a driver versus a taxi? If she uses a taxi isn't the taxi driver living of the avails of the escort? If I were to open a driving agency why would I be liable for actions that happens in private? I could be providing service for a dancer or other people. So any property owner is living of the avails of an escort? These girls directly use 'escort money' to pay for rent, food, clothes...etc Isn't this the same thing? I mean, the cycle of money is such that anything an escort buys can be consider in the category of 'living of the avails'. Basically, society as a whole is 'living of the avails' as this money is cyclical and society already knows what these girls do anyway...just a bunch of hypocrites...

 

5) So, police rarely raid escort agency and driving agency?

When was the last time you've heard of a raid on an agency? Any details?

 

6) Is there a laywer that you know of that can provide sound legal advice on these matters? I think most people are worried/scare cause they don't know the law...

 

 

thanks again for your time...

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I just want to comment on what is being said about the legalities and such. Mod is absolutely right in what he said and what he quoted about what is legal and what is borderline.

There are definitely gray zones that you walk between to keep yourself safe. PK, had actually set up time with a lawyer 2 weeks ago to discuss these very issues. All our girls were given excellent advice and had their questions answered and We as an agency have started to make changes in our operation to ensure that we do things as legal as possible.

Basically everything mod said is accurate and you can read it all in the CC.

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Guest wtf

Thanks PK Jessica...

 

I think everyone involved/associated with escorts worry cause they don't know what is truly legal or permissible. The more correct information people have then the better/safer people may feel. If there is nothing illegal then everyone from the girls, clients, drivers, owners etc should free safe about the business.

 

Can you refer the lawyer...I would like to get legal comfirmation...

 

So, does that mean it's legal to operate a professional escort?

 

Or this grey area can still get you into trouble?

 

thanks

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1) So why would girls require agency if they can legally do outcalls?

They do not REQUIRE an agency unless the city has a Bi-Law that says they must work under a agency licence (You can work around this situation as well as they only licence "Escorts" as they do not want to admit it's for prostitution so if you market yourself as a independent prostitute or courtesan then you can usually beat the bi law infraction fine (but bi-laws are like traffic tickets they are not federal law convictions - it's a slap on the hand for being bad) pimping, bawdy house, underage and solicitation are federal CC laws... much more then a slap on the hand and handled by VICE cops and not bi-law officers.

 

2) Can you provide details of what running a 'professional agency'? Does the agency require a special license and or licenses for each girls? Isn't the agency really 'pimping'???

In some municipalities a agency requires a licence. If the agency is screening calls, booking appointments, adding some protection (phone calls and whereabouts) and generally working for the ladies and not actually the other way around then this is the grey area. They are getting paid for a service and the escorts are paying the agency for this service. If the agency starts to demand things from the ladies, involve drugs, or any PIMP like activity they are defiantly no longer in the grey area!

 

3) If the driver is just driving girls...is he actually liable for actions that happen after she leaves the car?

Like I said he is still living off the avails but if he is not collecting the money on behalf of the agency (or pimp) he is just providing a service so it's grey area again.

 

4) "Living of the avails of girls" ...just a bunch of hypocrites...

This is why a properly run agency is in the grey area and why this law is being challenged right now in our court system. They need to allow the agencies to run a safe environment but can not PIMP the girls.

 

5) So, police rarely raid escort agency and driving agency?

When was the last time you've heard of a raid on an agency? Any details?

If one of the girls goes to the cops and says this guy is a pimp they usually investigate and then if they find the allegation to be true they do a bust. If they suspect drugs are involved or brothels they do a bust.

 

6) Is there a lawyer that you know of that can provide sound legal advice on these matters? I think most people are worried/scare cause they don't know the law...

Find a lawyer who specializes in (Use google MANY exist!) they are expensive as they are criminal lawyers (Not municipal).

 

All this information can be found online, take the time to do research and don't take peoples advise in a anonymous chat forum like this as the truth. It sounds like you want to open an agency of your own or become a driver. It's very hard for a guy to do this without the assistance of a lady who has been involved in the business and previously worked for another agency and often that just brings bad advise to the table. If you have no experience in the business a position with another company as a driver would be a good start for you... then you move to a new city and open your agency cause if you stop driving for the agency and open your own agency it's just bad business and your not off to a good start.

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Guest wtf

thanks for the advice...will contact a criminal lawyer...from what I hear laywers are 'regular' customers ...lol

 

I'm surprise you know so much about this...;)

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I have been involved in the online escort marketing business for over 10 years a number of years in the adult entertainment business in general. It pays to know everything you possibly can (This goes for any business your involved in).

 

I feel I have a very good concept of the law and how it is perceived. I also know all the "Pro's and Con's" of running a agency (and the revenue that can be generated from running a successful agency) and because of this I have been asked a number of times if I would like to be involved in running an agency (From a number of experienced ladies and some business men and women as well) - I have always declined the invitation and often offer some consulting (especially for successful marketing).

 

From the outside most people see the business as "easy money" and "anyone can do it" this is not entirely true.. yes, anyone can do it - but to do it right takes a lot more work then most people realize... and to make it successful takes a lot of skill and hard work. I can't go into detail here but I can say that many of the ladies who use escort agencies are either brand new to the business or ladies who are not good at organizing things! Agencies take care of the bookings, placing ads, answering the phones, emails, arranging drivers, dealing with customer complaints and much more...

 

The agencies take on average 1/2 the money per call and use 1/2 of that money to cover the overhead and pocket the other 1/2... any experienced lady who learns the business usually goes independent after they learn the business enough... often by the help of another lady, boyfriend or a driver who convinces them to do it without the agency (or open a agency themselves).

 

To go independent it would cost her less then 1/8th of the money per call to market herself and she would pocket the rest for doing the leg work herself... but as you can see many of the independent girls are horrible with keeping appointments, being on time and dealing with customer complaints.... it's a catch 22 as you need the agency to do this stuff properly but greed pushes the agencies out the door!

 

Only the entrepreneurial, open minded ladies get the praise on the review boards. Occasionally an agency seams to pull ahead but often they are operating in the RED by doing incalls, knowing the girls preferences and such (and it's only a matter of time before they are shut down in most cases as they end up firing a girl and she decides to put in a call to the police and next thing you know the agency is busted).

 

It's really not easy to run an agency without breaking the law... greed often prevails so the agency owners push the law limits to make more money. Just read the threads and you will see what the customers expect from agencies. It's not realistic! They expect to order a girl like they would order a pizza, have her delivered in 30 minutes and be perfect every time... if not they immediately complain and jump on a anonymous review board and slander the agency (as if it was the agencies fault the girl said no to some request the guy had).

 

The girls each have limits that are unique to them and these limits MUST be respected.... if the client did not fully enjoy the time with her then next time he should ask for someone else (it's that easy). If you go to a restaurant and don't like the dish you ordered next time you could try something different and it could be your all-time favourite dinner... you would be a fool to judge the restaurant on the one dish but then again many of us do this and it's unrealistic (maybe it was a new chef or a freak accident).

 

Now if the girl took the clients money and ran away with it that is another story (the agency would need to no longer represent that girl obviously). Or if the girl had other common sense ailments (Hygiene in particular or some really annoying thing that everyone would hate)

 

Some customers even expect the agencies to tell the girls exactly what to do... this is crazy (Not to mention it would make the agency owners PIMPS for sure if they tried to run it this way). The agencies should not legally know what girls like Greek, gfe, pse, etc... as they could end up putting themselves into that legal RED area by knowing sexual preferences of the ladies and recommending them based on your requests... but many agencies will know these things (as it's often expected) or at least tell you that the girl who is available is NEW as a indication that they do know yet know her preferences.

 

Some agencies will send the girl out on her first call to a "Regular" client who will supply feedback to the agency (sometimes these first appointment clients actually work with the agency) it's a pre-customer screening process. The agencies will often put in a "regular Customer" when trouble is suspected as well (Just to see if they should be concerned with the girl)... again all part of doing business. Often agencies will reimburse the regular client if things go bad.

 

Agencies place ads in the newspapers (and now often online as well) for hiring ads... then they interview the new girls (just like any job and employer would do) but because of the laws the agency is very limited to what they can actually say to the girl in the interview (and once hired). They can not say "You do know your expected to have sexual intercourse with the clients" or anything like that... and that restricts them from saying things like "Your health is important so you must use protection at all times" and such things like that. Sometimes one of the other escorts will "Mother" the new girls - often this escort secretly works for the agency as well but claims to have no direct relationship to the owners or business (this is how many stay in the grey area and still provide a safe environment.

 

If the agency does have these conversations with the ladies they can put themselves into the RED AREA (Living off the avails) as they are openly admitting that they are fully aware that sex is taking place on all calls. The agency must stay Neutral (as providing a service for independent workers to manage phones, marketing and security) We all know the agencies are more then this but the courts need proof! The vice (Police who handle these areas of the law) can send in a "New Girl" for a job interview (Being a undercover cop) and that would be proof enough for the charge to stick. (and this is just one example of how they get proof if none of the girls will agree to testify against the agency owner)

 

Agencies should be able to supply condoms, should be able to educate staff in heath awareness and precautions (Like any other workplace safety) and STD screening should be mandatory as well. When using condoms it's hard to pass such things as HIV & HepC but things like crabs, warts, herpes, Chlamydia and more can be passed (even with condoms being used) very easily and are almost all easily treated or controlled so this should be regularly checked for. Thankfully most of the girls do have often check-ups and stay clean.

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P.S. Here is the website for Mccarthy Tetrault in Ottawa. They are are cross Canada firm but I could not find any information about past cases relating to sex work. It's always a good idea to find a lawyer who has experience and even specializes in this area of the law... http://www.mccarthy.ca/en/offices/ottawa.asp

 

Valerie Scott at http://www.spoc.ca and her team are the ones who are trying to change the laws right now in supreme court but many of the ladies are opposed to these changes as it could go either way (making a bad situation worse or better). I think the laws need some change but I think the people who change them need to use common sense and think things out really carefully before making a bad situation worse! It's not something that can be fixed by changing a few words in the criminal code!

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Guest wtf

That is some great detailed insight...

 

I think everyone show read what you wrote and there should be a page where new people can find all this great info...people can never to be too informed

 

thanks again...

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Guest Boss man

There is definitely nothing to worry about.I have been seeing many ladies since about 10 years now and i never got any problems with the law.I know a mature lady who have been doing this job since 27 years now and never had any problems with the law.That's completely legal. As long as you stay away from people who takes drugs.Go to private places as much as you can (You and the lady only in the hotel room or appartement). Personally i prefer an hotel room.That's more private and i think it's more safe for the ladies.

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Private in-calls (and even hotel rooms if more then one client visits) are considered "Bawdy Houses" and both parties can be charged however this is rare (but you should know it is possible as Boss Man's reply seams to give you the false sense that it is really fully legal in any way).

 

yes, It it much more likely to happen (a bust) to a incall that is drug ridden, kids on the premises or disturbing a neighbor with the high traffic flow as these things cause many warnings and complaints to the police and create justifiable reasons for the police to investigate.

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If you are occupying a residence for more than 10 days doing incalls, then it is considered a bawdy house and you can be charged for that. If you are going to be doing incalls, make sure that the locations change and always remember that once behind closed doors, anything you say and do is legal.

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Hi Jessica, I hope your lawyer didn't actually tell you this information... if he did I would recommend getting a second opinion on that.

 

Technically more then one call at any one place makes it a "Common" bawdy house, no where in the law does it state anything about 10 days. He may have "Off the record" suggested that moving location every 10 days is a good idea to help impede any ongoing investigation but it does not make it legal.

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Well i guess we all recieve different information,but nonetheless, i am going to listen to the advice that was given to me by the lawyer and the cops who are clients of ours who keep us in the know of things. Either way, all i can say is, legalities or not, we are going to do our best to make sure we do things as right as we can. No agency or independent is perfect and this is an industry where there are blurred lines, so as long as you are operating as safe and as honest as u can then it should be fine. Follow the rules the best you know how and have fun!!!!

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Guest wtf

I hope you really don't have cops as 'clients' as that could be a red flag for your company...hopefully they are just advisers.

 

You might want to modify they line...

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yep we do and they ask for girls all the time, they are regulars and well when i say regulars that is what i mean. Our girls know. Everyone is fine with it.

There are all kinds of people who use services like this or independents. Everyone has the right to have fun!

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I agree with Jessica.

I am not a cop but cops are people like everyone else.

 

There are laws that are made to live in an organized society, as a collectivity.

However, some laws are good and some laws are stupid.

Laws relating to sex trade are in that category; some think they are good, some think they should be modified.

 

Some countries tolerate prostitution and bawdy houses in a controlled fashion and their society is doing very well.

Why doesn't Canada look into it? I don't know, maybe in a few years, maybe never.

Same goes with marijuana: there are talks to decriminalize it. Some agree, some don't.

In the end, it's impossible to satisfy everyone. But the cops as clients might think that in a controlled fashion, bawdy houses should be tolerated.

It could rid the streets of many street problems (drugs, violence, diseases,...)

 

Just my 2 cents!

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Some countries tolerate prostitution and bawdy houses in a controlled fashion and their society is doing very well.

Why doesn't Canada look into it?

 

The debate is being taken to court here in Canada this week, I just made a news story link to it today actually http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1658

 

 

Well i guess we all recieve different information,but nonetheless, i am going to listen to the advice that was given to me by the lawyer and the cops who are clients of ours who keep us in the know of things.

 

I am not trying to scare you, just want you to know you were given false information. Ignorance to the law is not an excuse and will not be taken into consideration if you are charged. Do yourself a BIG favor and take 5 minutes to read the law (I posted the link for you and others in this thread earlier) you do not need to be a lawyer to read it - it's in plain English and is a easy read. Be smart, use your own judgment.

 

If your not pimping the ladies or involving drugs of any kind (from the looks of it you are not) then you should not get busted unless you piss off the wrong person or if you fire a girl and she decides to make your life miserable by going to the police and telling them everything they need to know to have you charged. You would most likely win the court case but it will hit you hard as the lawyer costs will be about 6 grand for pre-court and well over 12 grand if it actually goes to court.

 

I hope you really don't have cops as 'clients' as that could be a red flag for your company...hopefully they are just advisers.

 

That is just a dumb statement. If a "Cop" is a client he is the LAST person you need to worry about. A cop that is investigating a agency is NOT going to have sex with the escorts. The problem is most client "Cops" will tell the girls things that they really know nothing about. Unless they are VISE cops they no very little about any sting operations against agencies (Or the law pertaining to prostitution at all) cops are NOT lawyers, they do what they are told to do and let the courts figure out if the charges they made are legit enough to process in court. If a so called "cop" tells the escort he is a cop it's only because he wants special attention from her and to make her like him more as the girl would get a false sense of security from this thinking that she has a COP on her side. Sorry but a traffic cop is not going to help you if you get busted for running a common bawdy house or pimping.

 

Cops are often clients, they are men too with the same needs as everyone else. To think they would not use a escort just because they are a cop is ridiculous... now the cops who tell the escorts they are actually cops are not so bright as the first person the girl will call will be the cop if she gets in trouble and don't think she would not immediately name drop!

 

 

 

EVERYONE should read the law (It's a easy read) I can't believe I have to stress this so much...

 

Ignorance is not a excuse and that is the first thing the judge will tell you. Most of us were born with at least one head so my advise would be to use it.

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Guest wtf

I recall someone is the military or government got laid off cause they used a work computer to view pornagraphy. It was actually big news when it happened and this was only viewing porn.

 

So, I would think a cop paying for sex would not be a far stretch from my initial statement. This is the 'sensational' news that would bring lots of negative attention to the force. The force has to set higher standard that those of the public. Arresting people for paying for sex and paying for sex themselves is a major contradiction

 

 

We live in a boring society and most people have a low tolenence prostitution or escort or strip clubs. I'm sure you will not see a cop justifying his actions of paying for sex on any public forum. There is a reason for that...cause image is everything. Once broken it;s very hard to repair.

 

That being said, I would not promote the fact that cops are regular to your agency...I can't see any good coming out from it...Is that not common sense for you all?????

 

And don't tell me lawyers are regulars too....they seem to have an out for everything...they seem to have the system setup so that they can't lose...it's always a win win for them....that's their image to the public....cops are different...

 

 

Sorry, that's just how I view it....

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Anyways, WTF..sounds like you are bitter about something for some reason. U are definitely entitled to your opinion and so am I. Whether i am 100% correct or NOT about the law, the main thing is that regardless of the laws, is that we try and be as safe as possible and continue to be aware of the law the best we can. Nobody working in this industry can do things perfectly, its almost impossible or nobody would be doing this or benefitting from it, ie; agencies, johns..and so on...

I don't think anybody is in this business to get hurt or to hurt people.

And i am not promoting that cops use our agency, otherwise i would have made an add in anouncements saying so LOL.

Seriously....

take care.

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Excellent posts for the most part, very informative...thanks to all who contributed. For my part, I've been a driver for escorts/strippers for over 3 years < not presently btw> and been part-time manager of an escort agency for a little over 6 months <not presently btw..lol>, so I've had my experiences from both sides of the coin.

We operated an incall service, which initially for me caused me more trepidation than if we had used a strictly "outcall" service, but then I started thinking about when was the last time I heard or read of any agencies getting "busted", barring any underage girls of course, and I honestly could not think of one in the last 20 years. I did not leave because I was afraid of a raid, I left because the money was not what I had hoped it would be and the drama/stress of running a day-today agency is understated, to say the the least. I find the vast majority of the ladies who contribute/are reviewed on these forums are atypical of the industry in general, in a positive way.

I am beginning to ramble here, so i will end this by saying that I would not worry too much about getting busted by using an escort from an agency or an indepedent, as long as they are:

a) Not doing their business in an OBVIOUS way, as unwanted attention is a surefire way to create problems for yourself.

b) Making sure no one is under-age, another major red flag for huge repercussions not to mention obvious moral implications.

 

Those to me are the 2 big ones, and I admire PKJessica and those like her for the job that that they do, as I sure as hell would not have the patience/grace needed to keep up a well run agency over an extended period of time.

Take care, and happy hunting alls..:)

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