Taffer

First post indeed, I think we know what's going on here ;)

Just a quick update, I think I've found a healthier outlet/source for more extreme fantasies in the form of literature/literotica. Not only are there plenty of kinky stories in every imaginable category, but I can also craft my own from my personal fantasies and contribute to the community. Seems to be a good way to avoid visual porn that is just to "extreme" for me to avoid irrational obsessions over the performers wellbeing.

Lol, we are like lemmings at a cliff, "stunning no one has tried her" says one lemming as he nudges his brother off the cliff :biggrin:

The images check out with image search tools, but I think she he is heading out of town now. I honestly would have gone to see her but I've been to preoccupied to make the trip to Halifax.

Here are my thoughts on whether you should pay for porn, how much to watch and whether it distorts reality.

 

I watch porn but I actually buy the dvd. Not paying for people's work is similar to stealing. Same goes for books, music and the like. One can argue that artists can find other ways to get compensated but that's only because they had to get creative with compensation to handle the large masses that have no qualms about not paying. The people I know that download free music are also ones to complain loud and long about not getting fully compensated for their efforts. Go figure.

Dvd eh? how about that y2k :D A lot of amateur performers release porn for "free" these days, they make their money via premium pornhub subscribers, advertising revenue, and live cams. It's very similar to the Youtube monetization scheme. I do at least pay 10$ a month for a premium pornhub sub, but it's hardly supporting all of the performers in the industry. It's all digital these days, can't remember the last time I've seen a dvd floating around, since Bluray has been out for 10 years now.

If I were single I may watch porn more but my wife knows I watch it. I don't hide it from her. I did when we first lived together but she caught me once and we discussed it and she's not concerned. Mostly because it is "mainstream" stuff and I still manage to go to work, exercise, hang with friends... basically, I maintain a "normal" life and it hasn't morphed into addiction territory from her perspective.

They say honesty is the best policy, she must be very open minded to allow you to visit escorts as well.

Does porn distort a persons reality about sex? For some, yes. Can it lead to consumption of ever more extreme versions? Obviously. Does that make it bad? Steak isn't necessarily bad(except for the cow) but when you eat too much it's not healthy. Porn on it's own isn't bad but it has potential to corrupt if you aren't careful. That's true of lots of things. Gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back...

I would hope many of us are intelligent enough to realize that mainstream porn isn't an accurate portrayal of real sex, but then I do tend to overshoot the mark on my faith in humanity :biggrin:

As I said before, I have minimal experience with addiction except to say that I understand people struggle mightily with their addictions. It's not an easy thing to conquer. I do have experience with depression and anxiety and, like addiction, can be overwhelming at times. Of the several CBT techniques I've read up on I found meditation and exercise worked best for me.

Agreed, exercise and vitamin D for depression, chamomile tea for anxiety. Perhaps I'll give meditation another go.

Been thinking of giving this a try but not enticed by a clinical/pro spa setting for such an intimate activity. If there are any ladies offering brazilian style waxing, maybe send me a pm.

First of all, I'd like to acknowledge that I've pushed this topic into a bit of a tangent. It was initially meant to be a broad discussion on porn, the current porn industry, and potential societal effects, rather than a tangent discussion on my own potentially problematic hangups related to porn. I do appreciate people taking the time to try and help me with my own personal issues, but I also don't want to discourage people from the wider reaching discussion of porn in general.

Porn is not inherently harmful or unhealthy.

 

Agreed, everything exists on a scale of potential harm vs potential reward, porn is in there somewhere. It really bothers me when the porn addiction community makes silly comparisons of porn vs smoking. Hmm, 1000x increased risk of cancer, vs minor fatigue after an orgasm, that's a tough one.

 

Porn and sex addiction are not real disorders. They are not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-5, nor by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT).

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201212/sex-addiction-rejected-yet-again-apa

https://www.aasect.org/position-sex-addiction

 

While technically true, it's also true the DSM has in the past, classified BDSM as deviant and unhealthy behavior in all of it's forms. I tend to think of the DSM and psychology in general as an ever evolving set of guidelines, which don't always apply perfectly to any particular individual.

 

It's interesting that you have pointed out the lack of recognition of porn/sex addiction, and then you form your thoughts in favor of that position. It kind of indicates to me that you have chosen a position, and the concrete evidence for that position is then of secondary importance. In other words, it's analogous to putting the cart before the horse.

 

Rather, the concept of sex and porn addiction is primarily used to pathologize the range of normal and healthy human sexual behaviours. This comess from a place of moralizing, not evidence. Consumption of porn, even when it's problematic for the individual, does not have the same effects on a person as real addictions do.

 

How do you define a "real" addiction? I am inclined to believe that there is certainly quite a difference between substance addiction, and behavioral addiction, but are either of them any less real? Getting back to the DSM, they are still dragging their heels/deliberating on how/whether to classify compulsive and potentially harmful sexual activity as a behavioral addiction, but when you take it logically at face value, sex is a human behavior just as gambling, or internet use are also human behaviors. I'd say it's important to avoid getting hung up on the terminology, and focus more on the lived experiences of people who have difficulty controlling their sexual behavior.

 

Morals plays only a small role in my own compulsive use of porn. Certainly it does come into play when viewing porn that to me is "extreme", but the main issue is the compulsive behavior that overrides my other goals in life. The compulsive drive for porn leads me to avoidance of other important responsibilities, it leads me to seek out porn for which I can't always verify ethical production, for increased variety and the accompanying dopamine high of novelty (free porn tube sites), and it leads me toward viewing content that I am increasingly uncomfortable with for a greater dopamine hit. It also leads me towards risky sexual behavior in real life, for which the compulsion overrides safety precautions and potential consequences. If you take porn that I have moral issues with out of the equation (there is very little of that), we are still left with the other indicators of addiction.

 

The belief that one is addicted to porn or sex is highly correlated with religiosity and having religious values that conflict with the sexual behaviour. Feelings of guilt and shame are strong predictors of identifying with porn addiction, regardless of how much or how frequently porn is used.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212153252.htm

 

I'm not at all surprised. I can certainly understand how a religious background would be conducive to self diagnosing as an addict, even when many of the indicators of addiction are absent. However I feel it's important to point out that just because there are many who self identify as porn addicts and lack addictive tendencies, doesn't mean behavioral sex addiction doesn't exist. The number of people addicted to sex/porn isn't really important to me on an individual level, what's important to me is the knowledge that my own porn use is compulsive, time consuming, overrides ethical considerations, is unrewarding in relation to the time invested and even potentially dangerous. I am not ashamed of the majority of content I watch (aside for that which may be unethical), I embrace my sexuality in all of it's forms, as long as there is no harm to anyone involved.

 

Unfortunately the religious moralists on the porn addiction forums make up the majority, and it makes it very difficult for someone like myself who is sex positive to have an open and honest discussion there and actually figure out a solution. They don't seem to understand that abuse of porn is the problem, not porn itself. Abstaining from porn seems to be the catch all solution, whereas I see it as a bandaid that doesn't treat the underlying problem of behavioral addiction. The goal should be to alter the behavior, not to do away with it entirely, binge eaters don't stop consuming food.

 

If the amount of time you're spending consuming porn is truly creating problems for you, absolutely do something about it. However, given that religious conditioning is sticky and can run deep, I can't help but wonder how the time you're spending consuming porn compares to the time you spend with other forms of entertainment or procrastination, such as video games, internet browsing, or watching TV.

 

This seems like a misconception regarding how addiction presents. I don't think it is so much the amount of time spent engaging with an activity that defines an addictive behavior. I can, and often do spend hours a day playing video games, but there is almost never a point where I feel as though I can't spend less time doing it when I really want/need to be doing something else. There are no serious negative consequences to gaming for me, it feels far more rewarding, and it doesn't effect my mental state to nearly the same degree as binging on porn.

 

I don't feel compelled to seek out increasingly violent video games as I do for bdsm porn, I don't ignore the well being of the performers on screen to get my fix (because video games don't have real people on set). I don't spend hours sifting through new and exciting video games, getting bored every 10 seconds like I do with porn videos. The addiction markers just aren't there for video games like they are for porn.

 

Masturbating to porn and escalating through increasingly novel/extreme content is a dopamine high for me that just doesn't happen elsewhere. I can literally feel the dopamine surge flowing through my brain, it's more stimulating than any other activity, even sex. Orgasm further alters the chemical balance in the body/mind. Stringing together 6 orgasms in one night leaves me feeling absolutely terrible, depressed, weak and emotionally numb, and that feeling extends well into the next day.

 

It's funny that you say I should do something about it, I think that's what truly separates an addiction from normal behavior, when you realize how difficult it is to stop/alter the behavior. I've tried many different ways of dealing with this, I've gone to such extremes as cutting the internet for 3 weeks. I've tried masturbating everyday in an attempt to substitute it for porn, I've tried having sex more often. It just doesn't work, out of all the things I've tried to cut down/alter the binge behavior I haven't found the answer yet.

 

Even when watching porn normally once per day I still feel the need to binge twice a week, often when I'm feeling depressed. This is how I know it's an addiction, when I'm not craving a porn binge, I want to change my behavior, but when I am craving it, life isn't worth living without a porn binge. It's not about the time spent on an activity, it's about how stimulating and potentially destructive the activity is for a particular individual, and how difficult it is for them to change when they want to.

 

I appreciate your concerns about ethical porn consumption. There is certainly porn that is being produced in unethical ways. It sounds like your concerns are twofold: That some BDSM acts are too extreme for genuine, healthy consent, and that porn is produced under unethical conditions.

 

For the former, it sounds like, in spite of saying that you don't empathize with performers, you are actually over empathizing and projecting your own experiences and desires on to the performers. Even if the things you enjoy watching are things that you wouldn't actually want to do, I think for your own peace of mind, it's important to realize and really believe that there are people who genuinely enjoy those acts, including things like extreme pain or degradation. People pay me very well for that experience.

 

The experience and motivations around extreme pain can also be very complex. You may not see enjoyment on the face of a performer, because extreme experience are often not enjoyable in the same way that strictly pleasurable sensations are. That is not to diminish the full consent or the rewards of such an experience, but extreme BDSM is often a physical and psychological experience less like vanilla sex, and more akin to running a marathon.

 

The problem is my concern for performers seems to only be present when I'm not craving extreme porn. Once that craving hits it overrides everything else, suddenly I'm back on pornhub (or sketchier sites), and it's all about one thing, getting that fix, feeling that rush, and numbing any depression.

 

As far as people who might enjoy extreme bdsm, what I rationally believe has little to do it, It's what I feel after watching it that matters. Sometime I crave being severely beaten by a woman, beaten until I emotionally break, cry, scream, etc. I know that I wouldn't fully enjoy it, not because I am ashamed of submitting to and being broken by a woman, it's actually quite a turn on, but simply because I don't find excruciating pain to be at all enjoyable on any level. It's a craving/compulsion that compels me to engage in the activity, or to watch it happen in porn, but I know I wouldn't be able to handle the level of pain that I crave, and it would probably be traumatizing long term.

 

That's what I am projecting on to these people engaging in extreme bdsm, because I know what it's like to crave something that you don't really want, to be conflicted on something and yet driven towards it at the same time by some invisible force, it's the difference between healthy engagement and unhealthy engagement. Healthy engagement in bdsm for me is relatively tame pain limits, I mainly enjoy the aspect of submission. Unhealthy engagement is craving the pain even when I'm no longer enjoying it, and that's why I can't watch this type of porn and assume everyone is in a healthy state of mind. I'm not saying those people don't exist, I just can't wrap my subconscious reaction/emotions around the concept of enjoying extreme pain.

 

In situations where people choose not to use safewords, or commit to being a lifestyle slave, there is still on going consent. These types of situations certainly have the potential to become abusive (as is true of all relationships), but healthy BDSM power dynamics are always built on the concept of on-going consent. A slave can always leave; even without safewords the bottom can always say no. In fact, both playing without safewords and lifestyle slavery place a heightened responsibility on the top/dom to know the bottom/sub extremely well, prioritize their safety and well being, and have the awareness and self control to avoid doing anything that would harm the bottom/sub.

 

Obviously with the extremely limited context of what you see on screen it can be difficult or impossible to assess how healthy an interaction is or how genuinely consent is being given.

 

Exactly, it is impossible for me to know how healthy any given interaction is, and particularly difficult for me to believe that someone in a 24/7 slave relationship is mentally sane. It is difficult for me to determine where consent ends, and Stockholm syndrome begins, which is why I would never personally engage in such a relationship. Many people have the opportunity to leave abusive relationships, and they choose to stay regardless, this is what we call Stockholm syndrome.

 

Which comes to the second point, on ethical porn consumption.

 

Ethically produced media can mean a lot of different things, but when I think ethical porn, I think of porn where the performers are all paid well, their consent and boundaries are respected throughout the whole production, they have a say in what they do on screen, their health and safety is well attended to, the set is free of sexual harassment, and concepts and language that would be harmful outside of the scene are avoided or explored with care inside the production (particularly around racism and transphobia.) Maybe there are other criteria that would make porn ethical to you.

 

I'm really pleased to see that you pay for porn - without people willing to pay for porn there can be no ethical porn industry. Particularly for small producers who are looking to do right by their performers, piracy is a huge issue.

 

If you're considering buying a membership, a rental, or purchasing a video, do some research on the production company, director and performers first. What are their values? Do performers think highly of them? Do the directors and performers have a good reputation? Do they do before and after interviews on screen? Do the performers have a social media presence where they can communicate directly with the public?

 

There are also many reputable independent porn producers - perhaps they will have something in their collections that appeal to you. Googling "feminist porn" may be a good starting point.

 

I hope that being deliberate about your porn consumption and adjusting your framework for thinking about it helps ease your internal conflict a bit. There's no reason that porn can't be consumed ethically and be a health part of your sexuality.

 

I agree, and I appreciate the advice.

As far as cheap and incredibly effective, I've heard tell of an interesting product called "J-lube", but if your not up for putting weird chemicals in your body, you could also try Xanthan gum (not for the ladies who don't want yeast infections!).

Aside from the aforementioned risk of yeast infections, xanthan is great for guys using fleshlights and what not. Probably safe for anal stuff as well, but I'm not sure on that, hasn't caused any problems for me up the butt ;). Anyways, it's incredibly cheap and slicker/better than just about anything you could buy pre made for water based, though jlube is probably still slightly slicker.

As far as what to use with the ladies I pretty much just grab whatever is dirt cheap with a decent rating, in case of an "emergency"/outcall where she forgot to bring some. Most women can create their own lubrication and those who can't probably have a lube preference/supply already. As well some ladies may only use organic lubes or they may have a bad reaction to some of the ingredients. Easier just to let them specify. What's your intended purpose op?

For xanthan lube you just buy some xanthan powder, and some liquid glycerin. Then mix a teaspoon of powder with enough glycerin to make a gloopy paste. Then toss it in a blender with some warm water and voila, you've got yourself some Superlube . Can't leave it sitting around for long unless you add a preservative to it though, I typically use a bit of isopropyl alcohol in the mix but some guys use salt, or a bit of vinegar, or parabens if you don't care about going the natural route.

Is there such a thing as PA(porn anonymous)? I too loved to watch porn and there are plenty of scenes that I enjoyed looking at, some scenes I have replicated with my love partners(some were Lyla ladies) but I would not say that I'm addicted to porn. My wife would bet to differ, she thinks that I get up at 4am just to watch it, the truth is I can't sleep anymore.

I do not pay to watch porn, I feel it's like water(somewhat). Why pay for it when it's available anywhere at no charge.

I think it falls under the sex addicts anonymous groups. There are quite a few online communities but there's a reason I'm posting here for some feedback rather than the porn addiction forums. The general opinion held on those forums is anti porn and often anti sex, there is no middle-ground "cutting back" form of recovery that is accepted there. Not to say I'm not open to all mindsets on this forum, if you are anti porn or pro porn in all it's forms I'm open to hearing the entire range of perspectives, but at least there is a range of perspectives here rather than just a singular hive mind.

I think the fact that we don't feel like paying for porn may provide some explanation as to why the industry is so disorganized and sometimes "sketchy". We are so used to running to the free tube sites that have so much sketchiness mixed in with the good stuff, paying for porn can alleviate a lot of the concerns that I have. Anyone can upload to the free porn sites, from professional production companies to some knob getting revenge on an ex wife with their sex tape :(

You never really know what you're getting unless you are paying a professional company, and even then there are plenty of sketchy "professional" porn production companies out there. If it weren't for the lack of variety I'd stick to pay sites. I'd consider starting a collection of porn downloaded from professional pay sites to solve the variety issue, but that gets into an entirely different legal grey area depending on the content. Kink/bdsm porn is technically not even legal to possess in my part of the world, which is why I've been sticking to streaming to try and avoid any potential trouble (however unlikely it may be).

It's really bothersome when kinky content is readily available to purchase and download in my country, and yet potentially illegal to possess, shouldn't porn companies and governments have some sort of accountability? I guess that comes back to how readily available porn is in general, particularly to minors who can't make rational adult decisions about what they are watching on the internet.

Getting back to your concern, I personally think that finding someone of the opposite sex with similar attraction as you would help out a lot. I'm no doctor but I believe in the expression that another person can complete you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm only trying to help out.

I do actually have someone with whom I've been doing a bit of bdsm play. It's an entirely different feeling than when I am watching porn though. In real life my limits are pretty tame, I don't want permanent marks, I don't want to be beaten until I'm crying or yelling, I just want to enjoy a bit of pain/domination with the sexual elements. When I'm on a bdsm porn binge it's more about finding the most extreme thing I can and it's only then that I crave being part of the scenarios that I see unfold on the screen.

I think it has something to do with connecting with another person with a similar pain threshold/limits to my own. We like to switch between dominant and submissive roles so we each have an understanding of the amount of pain we are inflicting on each other. I don't really feel that level of empathy for the nameless performers on the computer screen :(

Good post, Taffer.

 

Porn is a touchy subject, even on here. I once asked out of curiosity what people thought about having "mainstream" porn playing muted on the TV during an encounter as background eroticism. More than you might guess were against it or thought it was lame, etc. To each, there own... which is where this discussion is likely to end up.

Yeah I get that, and that's perfectly alright. I don't think it has to be a touchy subject as long as people here have respect for the varying range of opinions and don't lash out or shame anyone else for their viewpoints. To each their own as you say, but I think there is still a worthwhile discussion to be had here. Porn is like the monster in the closet that no one wants to talk about.

I'm tired of hiding what I watch online and feeling deviant/alone/depressed/ashamed, so I decided to start this discussion and be honest about the kind of content I have encountered online, and how easily accessible it was for me as a teenager. I'm not saying it's right or wrong for certain categories of porn to exist, or that it is accessible to teens, but I think there is an important discussion to be had, and not just here but in among society as a whole. There are also some important potential positives to porn beyond freedom of sexual expression, it's well known that the rate of rape in society has plummeted with the rise of hardcore porn. I think it's important to analyse that fact for causation vs correlation before we consider restrictions on porn.

My own thoughts from reading your post are that you do have an addiction and you need to "nip this in the bud" before it blossoms into something you can't control... or don't want to. I'm not criticizing here but extremes of porn, like religion, can fuck you up and distort reality. Porn has become mainstream and I'm not necessarily against that. Why does much of society say watching people enjoy sexual pleasure on screen is bad but the latest John Wick movie showing dozens of murders is shrugged off as normal entertainment?

Too late for nipping anything :p I've been addicted for many years. I can't really blame porn entirely though, I'm just a lazy guy as well. I've also been addicted to videogames for even longer so I have many different routes of escapism from facing real life problems. Of course procrastination on real life problems never makes them go away, it just makes them 100x worse :(

I completely agree about the extreme porn and the comparison to violence in other mediums, what's extreme for me isn't extreme for other people. The problem is the extreme content I'm drawn to is deeply satisfying on a physical/sexual level, but not on an emotional level. It might sound sick for people who don't understand sadism/masochism, but seeing a woman in pain or imagining being in pain is an instant erection for me, I just can't seem to turn off the other part of my brain that wants to reach out and comfort someone who is in pain. I can't differentiate between them "enjoying" the pain vs unwanted pain, it all looks the same to the emotional part of my brain.

I think the difference is that the violence/aggression in movies/tv is actually fantasy whereas a lot of the violence, rough sex, and other acts in porn are actually happening to the performers on set. In a lot of porn they are actually taking that 12" "implement" up the butt and are potentially in pain, but it may be their best/only option to make a living wage. The porn director might not have mentioned anything about anal in the contract, they may have pressured the performer into it during the scene, threatening to revoke their pay/scrap the scene. Or in Bdsm they are actually being hit and beaten, maybe they enjoy it, maybe they don't, there are many reasons to get involved in porn from sexual expression/enjoyment to ensuring personal survival/financial security in a world where nothing is guaranteed.

It's a big world out there with lots of weird and/or nasty stuff or beautiful and loving experiences and everything in between. How you shape "your" world is up to you.

I think that's the problem, it doesn't always feel like it is up to me. Sometimes I'll enter a porn site with the intention to watch something fairly tame, and before I know it I've "stumbled" onto a pleather clad woman in high heels, with a 6 foot bullwhip and a strong distaste for men who aren't worshiping at her feet with sore balls :oops: I enjoy that fantasy, but again it's difficult for me to watch someone in immense pain when I wouldn't want/be able to cope with that level of pain myself. I'm all for having them squeezed but some of these guys are literally taking full force kicks to the nuts and don't appear to be enjoying it at all.

I don't know enough about addiction to say whether dialing it back is better than quitting cold turkey. As my signature line says, "moderation in everything, including moderation", which to me means keep extremism in check... until its necessary. Stay away from the extreme side of porn, if you can. If you occasionally need to watch it, don't beat yourself up afterwards. Just go back to the mainstream stuff. Extreme forms of anything are usually unhealthy. Balance is the key.

Cold turkey just hasn't worked for me, then again neither does dialing it back. Regardless of whether I watch "softer" porn once a day or go multiple days without porn, I still end up back in a binge session every 3-4 days. I guess I just don't have to motivation to stop the addictive behavior, so I'm not sure that any method is going to work without that. Unfortunately beating myself up seems to entirely subconscious and not within my control.

I'm not religious. I do practice some meditation and I have read up on Buddhism a bit. It helps keep my extremist tendencies in check and reduces my anxiety. I particularly have an interest in what it says about non-attachment for possessions... or desires.:)

I've read up on it but haven't got into meditation, I can't seem to turn my brain off long enough for that.

Bottom line, you're not weird or alone. Just keep an eye out for the extremist side of anything. I'd like to hear others thoughts as well.

 

All the best.

 

p.s. That will be $250. I accept bitcoin, no 3rd party checks. :)

I know, sometimes I just need to hear that by opening up to other people, rather than keeping these thoughts all bottled up inside. Thanks mate, and yeah nah my therapist charges half that per hour :D

Good day fellow community members, today I'd like to talk about porn. I am of an age wherein porn has made up the vast majority of my sexual release, fantasy development, etc, I've been watching porn since I was ~14, and continue to do so 10 years later. I hear occasional mention of porn on this forum, some people are very liberal in their outlook, drawing inspiration from it, others believe it is having a potentially detrimental affect on young men, particularly their attitudes toward women and sex, what better place to gather as many diverse opinions as possible? This isn't going to be another obviously biased rant either pushing porn or condemning it, I've read many of them, and I've come to the conclusion that it is best to keep an open mind, and have an honest discussion. I myself am deeply conflicted on the issue for many reasons, all of which I will go over in this post.

My own journey with porn started out innocently enough. I started with softcore and gradually worked my way up over the years to hardcore, then into various fetishes, then eventually into bdsm and extreme varieties of bdsm. Basically if there is legal porn out there for a particular fantasy/fetish, I've watched it. My evolving tastes were limited by various aspects of my upbringing. When I first started watching I felt very isolated and deviant, even though it was light softcore porn. I was still harboring irrational beliefs up until a year or 2 ago (i.e religion), and so my fear of god put a leash on some of the fantasies I was willing to explore through porn, well temporarily anyways. As I developed a better understanding of the negative effects religion had on my life, my fear of god gradually subsided, and I am now able to live by my own values and make my own choices based on reason and evidence alone.

I have found my porn use problematic and disturbing for reasons aside from religion however. My first problem is that I am susceptible to spending far too much time with porn and shirking other responsibilities (a hallmark of addiction), though I can't entirely blame porn for my general lack of ambition and procrastination. I am also susceptible to watching porn that I am morally conflicted on, because I'm not always thinking clearly once I am on a pornsite, and the "videos you might enjoy" section is always drawing my attention with exciting new things. Bdsm was very difficult to come to terms with, I've always known that I get off on the idea of submitting to women and having pain inflicted on me, as well as dominating women and inflicting pain on them (consensually of course), but another part of my brain (other than the part that controls my raging hard ons) has difficulty coming to terms with witnessing violent acts, or carrying out violent acts, even when entirely consensual. So here I am trying to reconcile something that both gets me off more than anything else, and makes me feel depressed and alienated at the same time. This conflict is even stronger for more extreme varieties of bdsm porn, in which "performers" are often visibly in obvious excruciating pain/distress, crying, screaming, etc. It's an incredible sexual rush to see someone in pain, and to imagine having that pain inflicted on me, but it also triggers that protective male instinct in me whenever I see a woman crying or in pain, making me feel guilty and depressed. I would never have imagined just how extreme and easily available this genre of porn could be when I was a naive 14 year old gaping at the sight of bare breasts. So in a way I've felt deceived at times, exposed to genres of porn that I could never have hoped to process correctly at a young age, I was only 16 when I first started watching the light/moderate bdsm on offer by the production company Kink.

I hear a lot of speculation on porn's effect, that men and women are being indoctrinated into a certain outlook on sex, I'm not sure how much of this is true. A lot of people who believe that porn is programming men and women, like to use examples of bad sex they have had, where people haven't respected their boundaries. They will say that they felt pressured into certain sex acts, or even had certain sex acts performed on them without consent. To me that is just not acceptable under any circumstance, I always respect boundaries and ensure that the other party knows that my suggestions/ideas for activities we might enjoy are in fact suggestions, not demands. I can see where this argument is coming from though, some people may not be quite as evolved as the rest of us, and a lot of porn doesn't seem to focus on the consent aspect so much as the acts themselves. Kink for example will show before and after interviews where it is clear that the sex is entirely consensual, but for a lot of other porn consent is to be assumed by the viewer, even when the performers are being pressured into an act as part of the "role-play" on set. If we don't see the consent occurring between the performers, how are we supposed to feel about that as consumers? When a woman is in obvious pain during an anal sex scene for example, and the guys are pressuring her into continuing even when she backs down, that really bothers me, and it's far more common than most of us porn enthusiasts would like to admit. We push consent in sex ed and elsewhere as one of the core tenants of healthy sex, but then there is the murky grey area of porn where consent is the default assumption, even when there is quite a bit of porn floating around out there that is not consensual (Revenge porn, sketchy studios, some amateur porn). A lot of people have fantasies surrounding a lack of consent, and I think on some level many people are turned on when consent isn't clear, when there is that small flicker of doubt what they are watching is something that everyone involved consented to. Porn producers seem to be capitalizing on that element, why would revenge porn be so popular if there wasn't a market for it after all.

I'm not really sure where to go from here, I don't want to stop watching porn entirely, I've tried that and failed on multiple occasions. I don't want to keep watching porn on tube sites like pornhub either, I pay a subscription so technically I am paying for the porn, but not enough to really support the performers. The problem I have is finding a pay site with enough variety, which is why I always end up back on pornhub and watching things I'd really rather not be watching. I've also hit a wall with bdsm, I'm so conflicted on it and I can't see how anyone can draw a clear line between what is kinky fun and what is abuse. Sure the line is technically consent, but some people consent to giving up safe words and/or living their entire lives as someone else's "slave", how can that be considered "sane" consent? When someone no longer appears to be enjoying the pain they are receiving from bdsm play, doesn't that indicate some sort of mental health problem? If they are really having a good time why are they crying/screaming? Aren't they just addicted to the pain/endorphin high and should be treated like any other case of addiction?

Looking at porn from a broader perspective, I think perhaps steps could be taken to restrict access to minors and to solidify the concept of consent. I would agree that it is dangerous to have pornhub as the only tool teaching people what sex should be, and I think it could be addressed better via education. Of course the shaming doesn't really help either, it's important to encourage open discussion of these topics to prevent feelings of shame and isolation among young people. Looking forward to hearing any and all opinions on the topic.

Same woman I posted I reco for: http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=251515

I wonder if she's 19, or 21, she has 2 different ages in her ad. Not a huge red flag but I'd need to see some id for sure.

As a punter I'm pretty sure this would put me on right side. I'm pretty I have encountered more SPs on BP. ***shrugs shoulders***

I think you're misinterpreting her response. She appears to be stating that we are on the wrong side of things to fully understand how poorly service providers posting on backpage are treated, by many who respond to the ads. Just because we are gentlemen doesn't mean there aren't a lot of scumbags, and they appear to gravitate toward backpage ads.

I agree that we may have a better perspective on the quality of providers posting on backpage, as well as the number of fakes. Hard to say though as escorts appear to have an inconspicuous network of communication, that we as clients are not privy to.

All I can say is 80% of my backpage encounters have been positive, and only 5% have been somewhat dangerous. I won't pretend that they are all high class/experienced providers, but sometimes I'm just looking for the girl next door type anyways.

I seem to be getting a lot of false positives with google images. It will tell me that a particular providers image is in use in an ad, but when I click the link it's either a dead link or the image isn't being used in the ad. Other times google images will catch a genuine copycat ad that tineye doesn't see. So I guess both are useful, it's just to bad tineye doesn't have the right click image feature...I wonder if there's a chrome extension.

Update: There is indeed a tineye chrome extension, works really well, adds tineye link on right clicking an image :)

As a lady with hair anywhere ,well only on the head lol, I can assure you wax is not painful after the first few time,actually electrolysis is more painful.

 

I know the younger ladies are more and more au natural but if I do not mind hairy men I find ladies parts more of my taste with no hair.

Shaving is not nice either as it is prickly. Waxing leave the growth still soft in between session.

And I do it for me,I find the feeling of skin on skin with lots of lub really sensual...

 

The only male body part that I enjoy bare is ,hum,my english fails me,the balls? What's the real word? If those are not bare I won't go near...

Yes they are called "balls" in english, although the scientific term for them is "testicles". I've only ever trimmed the hair on any part of my body up until now, normally to 1/4 of an inch or slightly more, any shorter and it would be prickly. I have had providers giving my balls some attention in the past, but ball play has never really been a priority for me, so I haven't bothered to ask what they think of trimmed vs shaved.

I remember one time I let it grow out into something resembling a full bush, and the comment I got from a provider was "wow you are very hairy...but that's okay". Of course the look on her face said "trim your damn balls dude", so I've kept them trimmed ever since :D

A couple days ago I decided to try shaving my balls, and I've had mixed/poor results at best. I use a foil shaver cause there's no way in hell I'm getting a razor near that area. Even so I still manage to cut myself with the Philips Bodygroom trimmer, and I noticed that pulling things taught retracts the stubble into the skin. Not to mention it grows back all prickly by next morning. The cuts don't hurt all that much but the irrational fear/shock factor of not knowing when they are going to occur makes shaving a chore, I suppose waxing won't be any better in that regard :p

I'm thinking waxing is the only way to go for full smooth. I don't think I'll be doing it often but I could take care of my back and shoulder hair at the same time. According to online polls women are even more against shoulder/back hair than they are against ball hair. I can understand why you avoid unshaven balls, hair on my tongue makes me gag :p

There are more easy to find, cheap deals, girls who have no idea what they're doing, and most definitely, fake and scams on backpage.. but there most certainly are NOT more real ladies.. I mean, there is if you want to do absolutely no research- but we can't help how little work men want to put in.

 

(There are 265 ads in the Ottawa classifieds sections here.. if you think there are thousands of real escorts in Ottawa- I'd take another look at the actual demand. It's only high enough to hold so many girls.. that's why that 265 doesn't change much. You look at TERB ads in TO and you'll see the difference population and demand make.)

 

If you guys want to put in absolutely no effort, then yes.. there's more on backpage, but it's also where all the people wanting to scam you guys go. (Especially since the attitude on BP is escorts are dirty and worthless.)

So if she's on BP and nowhere else, I'm not entirely sure what else you guys expect. If they're hiding from the rest of the industry on BP, the attitude typically is to see and make as much money from as many suckers as possible and then change names and numbers or move on- not exactly the type of attitude that makes for positive experiences.

Alright, maybe 10/1 for real ladies on bp was a "slight" exxageration, in my area it's probably more like 3-5/1. I live in NS, at any given time there are ~5-10 sps advertising on Lyla. There are also ~5 sps in the area with permanent websites. Then there are 20-30 ads on bp and in my experience at least 75% are legit. Most of the 25% that aren't can often be ruled out with some research and caution.

If I lived in Toronto, I wouldn't feel the need to ever visit backpage. Perhaps I was wrong to suggest its a matter of supply and demand, it's more a matter of the variety of the supply. Most of us men enjoy the added bonus of variety in this hobby, it's just the way we are wired. If I wanted a long term girlfriend, there are much more affordable alternatives.

Additional Comments:

You're also totally and completely on the wrong side to be hearing the opinions of the majority of people who contact us after we post to BP, unless you have a secret side job I'm unaware of? lol.

Sadly, it's not very good and there's a lot of it coming from a lot of different numbers. (I might get 100 replies to my one post there, just in the morning too, but if 9 out of 10 ask for BB, to trade me drugs or call me names, speak disgustingly to me, etc- it can get very tiresome VERY fast.. Especially when you're paying $5 a bump to be treated and spoken to like that. It really chases away more of the decent providers than not.)

 

As a client, you may think that the majority of other men seeking ladies there are like you, normal and mentally sound, respectful of women- though I can for sure say, the majority there are not like that at all.

 

In my years in the industry I've had my faults, but having a thin skin is definitely not one of them and even I have had to turn off my phone and walk away to keep from being totally demoralized by the replies from there and I've never gotten that from anywhere else or even anywhere on the internet, industry related or not.

 

.. I've thought about posting about just some of the replies that I get after bumping on BP, but I think the majority of decent men would be horrified and I'm not one to go out of my way to turn people off of the industry.

I don't doubt you for a minute on this. Most of us have been on the internet long enough to know that there are a lot of disrespectful people lurking out there. Your right that we are not on the receiving end in this case, but it's not as though I haven't witnessed how sketchy online communities treat women.

Men generally have to deal with threats of violence online, women have to deal with that and a heaping of sexual harassment online. I sympathize, and I understand your disinclination toward back page.

Nothing about being new means they can't make a website, an account here and post on various subjects, Twitter, blogs, knowing other providers..

 

Maybe someone can explain to me how seeing totally unknown new providers, who make no attempt whatsoever to look like a "real" provider trying to build up her name, is helpful to the industry?

Yes, the new have to replace the old in any industry- but seeing fakes and getting scammed isn't supporting the new anyways, it's supporting the fakes and frauds, & I can't see how that could be helpful to any industry.

 

I was a new provider once (as were and are many ladies here,) and the only thing that was really different were the amount of posts and reviews I have.. I emulated the successful women by making a website and having photos, etc. With a little research it was almost as easy to see I was genuine and cared about my business as it is now.

 

Taking risks, (depending on the amount taken, luck and the outcomes of such) can work out fine, but it also has a high chance it won't and the clients doing so can start becoming bitter, jaded or even paranoid to the point that they interfere with our ability to screen for safety.. not to mention it can give them a negative view of the industry and other, more reputable providers.

While this is obviously only my opinion and I could be totally wrong; men could be relentlessly undentable and able to be ripped off repeatedly without it ever changing their perception of the industry-- the things guys post when (and sometimes continue to post even long after,) they've been ripped off, swindled and cheated out of hard earned money, leads me to believe that this is not the case.

 

I very much do want those who have never seen a provider before, are overly nervous or are worried about scary situations/being ripped off to know that this sort of situation doesn't have to happen and for some it never does.

You can have an amazing time, a rewarding experience and just enjoy yourself without taking unnecessary risks.

There are lots of amazing and genuine ladies out there and they're easier to find than it sometimes sounds! ;)

Alright fair enough, I see what you're saying. Certainly someone who takes the time to set up a website, take professional photos, post publicly, etc is far less likely to be swindling people.

That still takes us back to the problem of supply and demand though. There are few providers that want to put in the effort to start a website or to join Lyla in my part of the country. Legitimate backpage girls outnumber sp's with websites and lyla accounts 10/1. So it's somewhat problematic to suggest that all clients stay away from backpage.

I see 2 solutions to this problem, one is decriminalization for clients, the other is removing backpage from the equation, forcing potential providers to put in the effort to build an independent website. I don't know that either are likely to happen.

Hmm, I'm not sure it's a trend so much as the means are now available to quickly remove body hair. I have to resist the temptation to buy into the idea that it's a double standard that women need to shave while men don't.

Sure, technically women are far more often expected to shave their legs than men are, but if men started to let their facial and other body hair grow into a forest, I'm pretty sure the "body hair is natural" movement would be dropped rather quickly.

What really gets me is the level of pain and potential embarrassment many women and even some men go through for hair removal. I had no idea that they routinely do brazilian waxes at spas for example. The irony that licensed massage therapists aren't allowed to go anywhere near the genitals, but having unlicensed spa workers ripping hair off your junk is all well and good :p As someone who's into bdsm that sounds like a potentially fun time to me, and could just as easily be sexualized as a massage can be.

She looks stunning, reminds me of the dragon queen babe from Game of Thrones. Any one have any info?

http://halifax.backpage.ca/FemaleEscorts/new-in-halifax-lya-petiite-french-giirl-100-real-pics/2869343

Wow! Sorry to hear that..It's a good idea to spread the word around so it becomes more of a social issue, as it is not easy on us new women entering the industry and trying to build an honest reputation for ourselves when there is this kind of stuff going on...

 

Hope next time you really take the proper precautions and do your research !

 

Take care love,

Michelle Monet

I apologize in advance if what I'm about to say sounds a little cold, but your statements are in conflict with each other.

On the one hand I sympathize that it is difficult for you to enter the business when potential clients are unwilling to take the risk with you, but you have to understand that "taking the proper precautions and doing my research" would lead me to never visit a provider that hasn't established a good reputation.

There were no warnings written about this girl, no one had anything bad to say. The only precaution I could have taken is not seeing her at all.

Of course I could have done things differently during the interaction. I could have demanded that she leave the money before retrieving something from her car, but there is no guarantee she would have done so, and the law is inherently on her side.

I handled the situation the best way I could to avoid getting myself into real trouble beyond financial loss. I have no rights under the law to report that she stole from me. You have to understand that clients have no rights, and as a result many of us will be very reluctant to visit new providers. If you are a new provider and are having trouble finding clients, then join the fight for client rights.

We are reluctant to get involved in the fight for our own rights due to the public shaming that will result. Many clients have their reputations on the line and would be risking far to much getting involved in the fight for decriminalization on both sides.

Additional Comments:

I understand that people say this out of anger and frustration,

But, (and it's a big one, lol..) There are plenty of working ladies all over this country who go above and beyond for clients.

 

A lady doesn't have to be "well-reviewed" to have put some effort into her website, Twitter, ads, etc.. She just has to care about her clients and her business. A lot of us are proud of the reputation we've built/are building for our working names & businesses. The best way to encourage such attitudes is to give your business to those putting in the effort.

(You might also want to review these ladies on another site where you can post negative information. I personally feel that if there's someone out there actually robbing clients, people should know who so they can avoid them.)

 

Guys, you do have to be careful.. you are legally disadvantaged.

And taking risks are definitely not needed to keep the industry going, if anything they hurt more than they help as they are likely to end badly and totally turn good potential clients off of Service Providers altogether.

You are free to take any risks you like obviously, but they're totally not needed- Promise! ;)

 

With a little research and thought put in, seeing a SP can be a really rewarding experience.. It's sad that it has to be put that way, but at the moment it's our reality.

 

And Taffer.. You are not an idiot.

You were trying to be a decent person and some seriously shitty person took advantage of that.. I'm really sorry that happened to you.

 

That sort of behaviour is not only unprofessional and disgusting, it's also an insult to professional ladies everywhere. I hope these incidents didn't sully your perception of us as I'm sure there are ladies out there who would noticeably value and appreciate your patronage.

 

xx

I don't fully understand your point of view, how would the industry continue if none of us ever took a risk on the new girl? Sp's retire, change occupations, etc. Like any market segment, the new eventually has to replace the old, otherwise the demand will significantly outnumber the supply. If you have a solution to this long term problem, I'm all ears.

Pretty dead topic, did I write something offensive? Or perhaps this topic has already been covered? To add to my view on this, I've discovered something interesting about my preferences for leg hair on women. It's not the feel of it that grosses me out (although smooth legs do feel better than hairy ones, I'd take slightly hairy over rough stubble), it's the look of the hair, and the color.

I've seen blonds with hairy legs, and it doesn't bother me at all, but the same hair length on a dark haired woman honestly turns my stomach. I think it has something to do with the perceived cleanliness of light hair vs dark. This makes me question how some women might perceive my own body hair, as I said I keep it trimmed to 1/3 of an inch, but it is all over me and it's very dark brown.

I would have thought this might be an interesting topic, but I probably missed something here that would account for the crickets chirping :D

So, it's come to my attention that quite a few ladies shave, wax, or even laser off body hair. This will be a multi part question. My first question is, do most women even naturally grow hair that is of the thicker/coarser variety? I feel as though I've been fed a slightly false ideal of what women naturally look like, and most of the women I've met seem to opt for completely smooth everywhere.

For some reason my brain can't process the idea of coarse hair appearing anywhere other than a woman's pubic and armpit areas, I'd honestly be okay with trimmed hair in those areas, but anywhere else really goes against the ingrained idea of femininity in my mind. Do unshaven women typically have coarse hair anywhere other than those 2 areas?

The second part of the question is, what do ladies like on a man? I'm willing to admit that I am a hairier than usual specimen, coarse dark hair covers about 90+% of me, including areas that are often hair free in most men (back, shoulders etc). I keep it trimmed to a specific length, not too short or it'd be prickly, and I've yet to hear complaints, but I would guess sp's also have some incentives to be more accepting of it.

Full body shaving to me would be a real annoyance, and I have quite a bit of sympathy for women in that regard, who seem to be under fire with expectations to remove hair. There does seem to be a trend for men these days to shave as well though, so I guess some women must be into it.

I don't think I'd ever endure ongoing pain in the name of hairlessness, and I wouldn't expect it of a partner either, whether it be razor burn, waxing burn, or laser burn. It'd definitely need to either be an electric foil razor or the pain free laser techniques if I were to ever consider it. I don't think i'd ever laser anything though, I'd be worried that the majority of women still prefer a man with body hair. Interested to hear the thoughts of the community on this topic.

hopefully SPs stay clear of jacuzzis for health reasons

Lol what? Are you thinking of hot tubs that are left filled? I'm just looking for an incall with a nice large bathtub and some air/water jets. An indoor Jacuzzi, not a hot tub.

Even hot tubs are generally filtered and occasionally drained for cleaning though.

Nothing better than sharing a bath with the lovely ladies of Lyla. Are there any Sp's out there with a nice Jacuzzi setup?

A nice Jacuzzi...that is all :)

Had a wonderful time with Mia, excellent massage, wonderful personality, open minded, very much a turn on to hear her whispering spanish in my ear.

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