JuliaOttawa

Nevermind :)

JulieOttawa ... thanks for sharing your insight.

 

I am fascinated, but still believe the bar owners such as the owner of the Brass Rail (who makes damn good money selling beers at $10 each) should be more fairly compensating the dancers there. It really bothers me as I think an exotic dancer should be paid for her work. It also very much bothers me that you have to pay the club for working.

 

I understand that you enjoy the freedom as a result of being self employed. But I am an idealist in believing that you should have the best of both worlds in that you should be paid well, respected AND enjoy the freedom of self employment.

 

I read somewhere that the mod previously worked as management for an exotic dancer club. I am very curious about his thoughts on this topic as well having come from the management side of this area.

I am paid very well :) I make a lot of money dancing. If I wasn't making a lot of money, I would be complaining about the tipouts. But $55/night is absolutely worth it. It's a fair exchange, in my view.

I had no idea that some dancers had to pay to be there. In my opinion, that is awful. It infuriates me that strip club owners get away with only paying $10 per show (or charging women to be there to work) and make a bloody fortune charging $10 per beer in places like the Brass Rail. I believe that is taking advantage of the dancers and that bothers me. I always thought exotic dancers were paid around $100 per dance and the private dances were a bonus.

It personally does not infuriate me that we pay house fees. By the way, 95%+ dancers in North America and 100% of Ottawa dancers pay each night to work. We are independent contractors and enjoy many benefits as a result. I've worked in Thunder Bay where the pay was $200/night for 4 stage shows and I much prefer paying to work. Here are a few reasons:

-I own my business. I don't work for someone.

-When we pay housefees, there is MUCH greater flexibility in scheduling. I get to show up when I want, work however many days I want, take breaks whenever I want. When you are paid by the club and "on schedule" you have to work when you are scheduled and when they tell you to.

-I can do whatever I want onstage. When they don't pay you, they can't tell you what to do. When I worked in Thunder Bay, they were much stricter about your shows, costumes, music, etc. Most dancers have to purchase new outfits to work there.

-Money is power. When I'm paying to work there, I have greater control over my environment. For example, when I give staff money, they know they have to treat me well or else I won't pay them, or I will pay them less.

I could keep going but I think you get the idea. I am happy to pay to work, and I don't want to go back to a shift pay club. One of my favourite things about dancing is that I own my own business and that I don't work for anyone but myself.

Nevermind :)

The ottawa bylaw states No touching bothways. Both dancer and client can be fined if caught. This bylaw has been before the new open champagne room law. But alot of clients and dancers ignore this bylaw. The quebec law is more leinient towards the touching since a Quebec judge said touching is legal in the province of Quebc.

Dance by-laws are controlled by the cities in Ontario.

I was under the impression that a higher court ruled that "benign" contact cannot be illegal.

I dance in Ottawa and in the Ottawa/Hull area, low mileage generally means you can touch the girl anywhere but pussy and she can touch you anywhere but cock. No licking/kissing/sucking. This is what the majority of the girls follow but there are girls who break the rules at every club. Also, grinding is less common than it was in the past, but still pretty common. I personally don't.

If you're talking about Ontario in general, there are some clubs like Centerfolds in Thunder Bay that are strictly no touching. Others areas, like Missisauga, are full of extras.

I'm a dancer, not an escort, but I have a long-time male regular and an occasional female who would come and buy dances from me. They ended up dating! I don't think it lasted too long, but I sure had a good laugh at their "how we met" story.

I'm had several guys "share me" with their friends, but I'm sure that's more common amongst dancers than escorts because men sometimes go to the strip club in groups.

Julia, please remove this part. You are claiming that you have known all close to 50 dancers I have seen and reviewed in more than 10 bars over the past 10 years (many of them retired already) and have seen them all, not washing in the changing room. This is a gross claim.

I never claimed to know all of them.

I said dancers you've mentioned on this board are included in the numerous dancers who I've never seen wash their breasts after seeing customers.

Plural (ie. dancers with an s) means more than one, not "all of them".

Gotta agree with the others. If I only keep a girl for one dance it's because I didn't think she was worth $20 for that one. I'm sure you're aware some girls don't live up to their advance billing ......

Oh yes, but my comment was specifically to curious2 who I've known in real life for a year and a half :)

If it's for school and stuff you're handing in, I recommend printing at school.

It seems to me that this hobby has a spectrum that seems rather clear to me, with dancing at one end, escorting at the other, and massage in the middle.

That spectrum may make sense to you as a customer, but as a sex worker, the spectrum doesn't really work the same way. You may think that women who sell sex would have absolutely no problem with dancing, but I have known many services providers who shun the thought of $20 dances for multiple men each night as degrading and cheap, and then there are dancers who shun sex work as degrading and cheap. Each business presents its own challenges and rewards. There really is no linear perspective the way a client seeking services sees it.

I think the biggest problem with dancing over escorting is that you have to hustle and face rejection. Also, when you talk to 20-30+ men a night, surely a few will be rude to you. It's rare I leave a shift without having a guy be an asshole to me. I don't know if escorts would say the same thing.

Also, the rejection can really wear on you and your self-esteem. The competition is harsh, unlike escorting, you are working right next to your competition.

***The job is about so much more than just the mileage provided.***

For me, if I keep a girl for just one dance, it means that I didn't like it much at all and the $20 is just the price of escaping! :)

SA, while I respect your opinion, you are NOT a dancer, and frequenting strip clubs doesn't make you an expert. What happens with you, is not how all clients act. Just as much demeaning crap can happen at a strip club, even so-called classier joints like the Nuden. Like guys who will try to stick their fingers in you when there is a strictly no touching between the legs rule. And that's sexual assault, my friend. And there is a TON of competition between dancers, classy or not. You have to be able to hustle and it's entirely different than escorting.

 

I hate to be blunt, but unless you've been dancing in a g-string yourself, you ain't got jack to say.

Thank you, Erin.

SA, we'll have to agree to disagree. I did work in many clubs for many years, so I have an insight that you may not be able to appreciate. I maintain contact with people still in the bizz and I know for a fact that a lot more goes on in champagne rooms than you might imagine. As for demeaning, or objectifing simply dancing on stage or on a stool can be a horrifying and objectifiing experience for many girls.

 

of course gangbangs don't happen in strip clubs but other acts do, trust me they do. Don't get me wrong I'm not hating on the ladies for doing them, but rather the customers who would take advantage of the situation to get more than they are entitled to, strip clubs are for entertainment and teasing, but many customers try to get much more which is disrespectful to the girls and often the requests can be disrespectful, thereby making the stripclub environment less safe than you might have imagined. And were not talking about lower grad strip clubs, we're talking about many of the top familiar names.

 

In short advising a woman to dance rather than escorting is not neccisarly the best career advice to give out.

Well said, Cowboy_Kenny, and as a dancer, I approve this message. You have an insight into the biz most people don't have unless they've actually danced.

CK, I am afraid I have to challenge your comments on dancing.

I think dancing can be done correctly, but there are safety precautions that need to be taken into account.

If Suri chooses to go into dancing, I would want her to do so with her eyes wide open.

Suri - If you choose to go into dancing, feel free to PM me.

What will be the emotional consequences of all these for a very young lady down the road??.

If any of the ladies or gentlemen would like to respond to me PLEASE PM me. There has been more than enough discussion on this subject (not exactly related to the original post) here already. Thanks.

I feel your advice is dangerous and so I'm responding in this thread so that Suri and other women considering dancing will listen to people who've actually been there, and not a lapdance customer.

I understand your point Julia...there are club rules meant to respond to municipal bylaws and keep the popo happy. Unfortunately, it is quite amazing that so many people who work in the industry are so oblivious to the law. Btw, the municipality can't remove a liquor license (that's provincial)...but they can remove the right of a business from being a restaurant, bar and alas, a strip club or any place with a liquor license for that matter. (Minor technical difference - same effect).

 

monk

 

p.s. I'm not a lawyer, but I could play one on t.v.

EDIT: p.p.s. the no kissing rule is more likely a club rule and has nothing to do with the law on prostitution I just re-read it)...but everything to do with trying to adhere to the municipal bylaws...but in my opinion is ignorant because you could never convict on kissing alone...wouldn't happen.

Thank you for your post, monk. It was interesting to read. I've always understood that there is grey area in the laws. My understanding has also been that direct genital contact and exchange of bodily fluids are not in that grey area. Such a shame, because when you are working in a profession you really do need clear knowledge of the laws. There were a couple ladies arrested in TO for allowing the customer to touch her breasts (I can provide full documentation for this by email if you wish, though the charges were dropped) and one of my dancer friends won't even "admit" to customers on the floor that any contact goes on in the back for fear of police.

The ladies that I select to see are usually classy and they constantly go to the changing room to wash out after every dance.

A $5 tip always makes my day just because the guy is being so thoughful. It's especially nice since I tip my DJ and bouncers, and I never have bills less than a 20 unless a guy tips me.

It's certainly not obligated or the norm, but always appreciated! The only time I'd lean towards tipping being "necessary" is maybe if you kept her for just one dance.

No reason to get mad.

....he could have just walked by and relax instead of trying to enforce a backward (as you claim to be) a city bylaw, as many other bouncers do in many other strip bars.

and that by-law prohibits kissing? Hard to believe since dancers are not licensed and therefore, anyone caught kissing in a SC would be breaking the by-law. What is the offense for kissing? A municipal by-law is not under the criminal code...so the worst thing you can get is a fine.

The main concern for the club in enforcing the rules, I believe, is that they risk losing their liquor license.

You are correct that the result would be a fine, like speeding or parking. I've known dancers who've gotten fines.

My main point was not that these are important laws that need to be followed, but that the bouncer isn't a lawmaker, club owner, or club manager. He is just a low-wage employee paid to enforce these rules and we shouldn't criticize him for doing his job. Our problem should be with lawmakers.

What law would that be? It isn't part of the criminal code...so is it a by-law that you are referring to?

Ottawa's municipal by-laws regarding adult entertainment.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I'm pro-sex work and I have no problem with activities between consenting adult. I do have a problem when people get mad at the bouncers for just doing their job. I've had jobs in the past where I've had to enforce dumb rules and it sucks.

I never forgive and forget that I was with a beautiful young cutie in CR (at NuDen) and we were (deep) kissing (really she was kissing me and of course with pleasure I was returning the favor) and the A-Hole bouncer at NuDen came in and gave the poor girl a warning for kissing on the mouth. It was just innocent kisses between two consenting adults giving both sides pleasure.

It's the law. Your problem should be with lawmakers, not the bouncer who was just doing his job.

I'd say there are 30-50 dances signed in on a Fri/Sat night. You won't see them all at the same time since a good number will be in the dressing room, and another good number will be lapdancing, but LOTS of ladies for sure!!

UPDATE: She was at the Den today! You could try your luck tomorrow afternoon/early evening.

I also work at the Den and I'm quite sure she retired.