The White Knights Myth VS Reality

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

Please let's share our opinions in a peaceful way!

[WhiteKnight 1413]

I guess I am a little biased on this one... I will let the ladies comment :)

[Guest c**io**m7]

I've been a white knight...it ain't all it's cracked up to be.

[MightyPen 67414]

I have two! And generally feel I'm ahead a bit if I trade them for bishops.

[Guest realnicehat]

Fact: White Knights ride unicorns!

 

 

Fact: To become a White Knight you must defeat the mighty panda of love!

 

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

So they exist then? ;)

[WhiteKnight 1413]

Jane, could you tell us what a White Knight means for you? I suspect different people have different understandings of the term.

[Eric Northman 16522]

I think it's the whole 'Pretty Woman' thing. The guy who wants to 'take you away from all this,' or 'help you out with your ads,' or 'take photos for you,' or some other things that sound borderline pimpish.

 

From a providers perspective it's often considered patronizing, insulting and infantilizing. Implies that they can't take care of themselves and need a man to step in and protect them.

 

It tends to get bandied about on some forums as an insult to any guy who ever steps up to defend a provider. eg:

 

Joe Bunghole: She's such a stupid slut. She wouldn't let me stick it in her arse without a condom.

Johnny Whiteknight: WTF dude? Why are you such a jerk? She's a perfectly lovely young lady.

Peanut Gallery: STFU white knight faggot. LOL looser.

[Guest realnicehat]

Please let's share our opinions in a peaceful way!

 

So they exist then? ;)

 

What are you up to Jane?

 

Because this kinda feels like

 

[mrgreen760 37785]

So they exist then? ;)

 

Yup, no question :)

 

Peace

MG

[piano8950 32577]

I'm not sure what context Miss Jane is bringing up, if it's specific to this industry, please ignore the rest of this post.

 

When I was younger (I feel old saying that, but in reality just about 7 or so years ago), I met this girl who was all kinds of messed up. She was nice, but for certain reasons, she had a very low self-esteem, dabbled in some dangerous activities, and in other ways, in a bad place.

 

I helped her through some of it, I'm happy to say that I did a decent job, she's headstrong and accomplished now. On her way to bigger and better things.

 

But that relationship really did a number on me. I do believe I was well intentioned, but it did start to feel weird when she became more independent. It's hard to put into words, because saying it really makes me feel a disgusted with myself, and even though everyone here is more or less a faceless avatar, it is a bit shameful to admit this. I resented when she did become better, or healed so to speak. Being that person who was a confidant, a crutch, it made me feel better about myself.

 

I realize now I had my own self-esteem issues, if my 'white-knight' self was using all of this as a confidence booster. 7 years may not seem that long to some here, but I wonder about that little kid, wonder how I could've been that person.

 

I guess based on my own experience, I do have a negative correlation to white knight. I've learned that it's good to do something nice for others, and okay to feel some sort of satisfaction. But it is a small component of my life. I am on occasion hesitant helping people, especially women who are my age. I try to wonder if I'm doing it for the right reasons, or because I feel as if I want something more.

 

This has turned out to be a bit of a rambling, so I'll stop here. Hopefully this was to point.

[Eric Northman 16522]

piano8950, I know what you mean. I once went through a phase with a lady like that myself long ago. I don't think she needed or wanted saving and in retrospect, I think it was very arrogant of me to assume that I knew better what was 'right' for her.

 

It ended in misery and as I look back, I really have to question my own motives. At the time I felt that I was pure of heart but in retrospect, I think a lot of it was ego and low self esteem on my part. Trying to make myself feel better by being a selfless saint, rescuing this poor helpless girl with no ulterior motives whatsoever. What a crock of shit.

 

Treat women like people and take the time to listen and understand them and don't assume you know the answers to their problems or even what their problems are in the first place. Chances are you're wrong and chances are you're doing it for the wrong reasons anyway.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

What I meant by the White Knight is the term commonly associated with this industry including forums.

 

I apologize for the failure on my part no to clarify that issue.

[PistolPete 61421]

A few years ago, a touring lady from Toronto was here in Ottawa ( I had seen her once before), we were to see each other the next am.

 

When I texted her for location, she asked if she call me, I said "yes of course". She called, was crying on the phone, she had been robbed by 3 guys the night prior to our appointment.

 

The guy came to her door, and before she could get the door closed the other two barged in, they cleaned her out cash wise, it was a late appointment around 11pm.

 

Needless to say she reported the robbery to police,her room was already paid for, so I met her outside her Hotel (a four star hotel commonly used by providers), she was sitting on her suitcase, teared up.

 

I took her to bus station, bought her return ticket,(she bussed and came one way, and to see the city and didn't know how long she would stay) and I gave her my donation of the intended agreement between us, so she could eat on the way home and have some money.

 

This is NOT being White knight, as far as I'm concerned, this was simply doing the right thing, when someone is in tears,upset, and lost everything in the past 2 days, I think helping that person out was the appropriate thing to do.

 

We stayed in touch over the following year, she never came back to Ottawa, because of that situation, and last email from her was she was retiring and going back to school.

[Eric Northman 16522]

What I meant by the White Knight is the term commonly associated with this industry including forums.

 

I apologize for the failure on my part no to clarify that issue.

 

It's really a term that transcends this industry and appears in many different online forums. See the Urban Dictionary definitions for variants.

[6dave9 4008]

 

We stayed in touch over the following year, she never came back to Ottawa, because of that situation, and last email from her was she was retiring and going back to school.

 

I sincerely believe she will remember you and your -Bonne Action- for a lifetime.

It's all good karma....

 

You never know, your life's paths may cross again, (in no particular setting..) and if so, you can bet you will have a friend and smile.

 

[ I second EricN's comments]

 

D.

[Wolf Knight 29667]

It's been pointed out that the term tends to carry a negative slant and when ever its brought up it's used in an insulting way. From what I've seen I agree with this. It's not about being a genuinely good person who speaks or acts out against a perceived wrong. Different people have different tolerances regarding what they will accept in terms of letting a person defend orlook after themselves before they'll step in. If a situation exceeds what you are willing to accept and you act, you are not being a white knight you're just living your life in a manner that allows you to sleep at night.

 

I think a white knight is more someone who comes to the aid or acts with an agenda. If I do this then I'll receive this benefit in return. There are white knights throughout this industry just as there are genuinely good people who's motives are pure. I guess we can all surmise which is which but it's only the person themselves that knows for sure.

[mrgreen760 37785]

What I meant by the White Knight is the term commonly associated with this industry including forums.

 

I apologize for the failure on my part no to clarify that issue.

 

Same answer....Yup, no question.

 

Peace

MG

[MightyPen 67414]

Yeah, this is one of those cases where it's easy to talk past each other if we aren't more specific about which of many possible definitions for "white knight" we mean.

 

Looks like Miss Jane is alluding to that occasional tendency of clients to try to act on an SP's behalf to "save" her from "this life". And of course this has built into it several assumptions and ugly implications, to which the white knight himself is blind:

 

• "she needs saving!" (implied: "Look how terrible her circumstance are! Nobody could possibly want to live the way she's living!" Built upon several layers of narrowmindedness.)
   
   
  
• "and I'm JUST the guy to do it!" (implied: "My position in life is superior to hers; her position is inferior to mine." Thrives on and feeds the knight's own ego.)
   
   
  
• (never said aloud: ) " 'cause god knows she can't change on her own." (implied: she's broadly incompetent and incapable. Once again, it's about the knight's own ego.)
  

 

It's too bad, because although the knight thinks he's being awesome, just scratching a little at the surface of his intent reveals all of the ego and contempt behind it. And yet the target of the knight's pity may very well have her life, her ethics, her philosophy, and her finances in far better shape than the knight perceives or can imagine.

 

But it's also unsurprising; I see this mindset a lot in in well-off acquaintances who can be clueless and narrow-minded about anything outside the tidy, conventional paths their own lives have followed.

 

Speaking of which... has anyone else seen the miniseries "The Crimson Petal and the White"? It's kind of about this, and well-made! Plus, you know, Gillian Anderson. And cool clothes.

[WhiteKnight 1413]

Oh my... I didn't think that White Knight meant something pejorative... maybe I should rename my handle!

[VedaSloan 119179]

There is a whole industry around the "white saviour" (white saviour industrial complex--give it a google).

[Eric Northman 16522]

There is a whole industry around the "white saviour" (white saviour industrial complex--give it a google).

 

Interesting inference. I had only thought of extending it to other forums but you're right. There's definitely a business around 'saving poor heathens' that dates back to crusades and missionaries right through to modern charities. I hear that a lot of Africans quite resent the well intentioned yet patronizing efforts of people like Bono to 'help' them.

 

"You Europeans and Americans have been fucking up our continent for half a millennium and now you want us to praise you for sending a few mosquito nets and water purifiers? Fuck you!"

[fortunateone 156618]

Yeah, this is one of those cases where it's easy to talk past each other if we aren't more specific about which of many possible definitions for "white knight" we mean.

 

Looks like Miss Jane is alluding to that occasional tendency of clients to try to act on an SP's behalf to "save" her from "this life". And of course this has built into it several assumptions and ugly implications, to which the white knight himself is blind:

 

.

 

 

 

There is a different term for that, and usually refers to situations where no defense or saving is required.

 

The WK reference on review forums is usually thrown at someone who has the decency to step up and make the slinger accountable for not behaving like a human being. There is a pretty good example in this thread lol.

 

In reality, WK is an insult, not something that people actually are or do. It is a way to dismiss someone stepping in and pointing out a poster is rude, potentially a serial rapist, or at best, slandering the other member. Using it as an insult is a way to dismiss whatever that accused WK poster has to say, so they don't have to be accountable for the rude or horrific things they post.

 

It rarely if ever has anything to do with when a poster has actually seen the sp and is posting a counter to whatever accusation or comments have been made about her. It usually comes with a comment like "wow, no wonder she kicked you out and took the donation." after the accused WK reads what the other guy has to say.

 

A WK is a client, and has little interest in getting sps out of the business. :)

 

Apparently you aren't allowed to post anything that might imply that you are on 'her' side, or you may be accused of this.

 

 

A 'lap dog' is usually reference, in the same derogatory way and for the same reasoning, if the poster has actually seen the sp and/or is her regular :)

[Guest realnicehat]

There is a different term for that, and usually refers to situations where no defense or saving is required.

 

The WK reference on review forums is usually thrown at someone who has the decency to step up and make the slinger accountable for not behaving like a human being. There is a pretty good example in this thread lol.

 

In reality, WK is an insult, not something that people actually are or do. It is a way to dismiss someone stepping in and pointing out a poster is rude, potentially a serial rapist, or at best, slandering the other member. Using it as an insult is a way to dismiss whatever that accused WK poster has to say, so they don't have to be accountable for the rude or horrific things they post.

 

It rarely if ever has anything to do with when a poster has actually seen the sp and is posting a counter to whatever accusation or comments have been made about her. It usually comes with a comment like "wow, no wonder she kicked you out and took the donation." after the accused WK reads what the other guy has to say.

 

A WK is a client, and has little interest in getting sps out of the business. :)

 

Apparently you aren't allowed to post anything that might imply that you are on 'her' side, or you may be accused of this.

 

 

A 'lap dog' is usually reference, in the same derogatory way and for the same reasoning, if the poster has actually seen the sp and/or is her regular :)

 

I've been called worse :)

[MightyPen 67414]

There is a different term for that

Is there?

 

See the top definition here: Urban Dictionary: White Knight... that's kind of where I'm coming from. But then...

 

The WK reference on review forums is usually thrown at someone who has the decency to step up and make the slinger accountable for not behaving like a human being.

... yeah, I've seen it used that way too, and I agree it's often used to dismiss arguments by questioning the motives of the poster.

 

Guess this is why we each need to establish up front which of the many definitions we're using in order to move the conversation forward.