craig101

Round it up no?

If it was 17.5 minutes then it would be a dilemma

 

 

I'm tired of those threads, bleh.

I'm just going to go back to boobs, ass, and music threads. At least they are more entertaining and have less drama.

Ya I know. Was just being silly

If the session took 18 minutes do we round it up or down? lol

I try not to think about it to much... on that note I'm out of here

I don't think this is much of a problem here on Cerb. The ladies here are professionals and have their reputations and their livelihood to protect. They have a vested interested in this.

But if we are to be fair, we know there are a lot of ladies out there with the intent of deceiving. Just have to read the diary to know this is true.

Of course the sp is looking out for her best interests and the client is looking out for his best interests. Don't think anyone is being evil here.

I think the best thing guys can do is do their research and make informed choices.

When I look at pics here I get lost in EmilyJ's eyes.

I deleted the shout box on my profile a long time ago. lol

Its not really deleted but hidden.

Craig ...honey, you are missing one very important fact.

 

You want the SP's time, you called her and set up an appointment.

She did NOT call you and ask for your time. If you are the one cancelling, you are the one who has to make it right. If she has a cancellation fee and you decide to blow her off, well you won't be seeing her again because we women remember things like that.

 

Now if you are a Gentleman, as other Gentlemen here have said this isn't even an issue.

 

As an SP when I have had to cancel they client definitely gets a benefit from that the next time I see him.

 

The whole reason we need this in the first place is because we don't want someone wasting our time.

 

So honey don't get stuck on whatever your reason is.

Seems you are agreeing with me. lol I have no issues with ladies having cancellation fees and protecting themselves from time wasters.

Was just adding that the clients time is also valuable and that both sides should be sensitive. I think were on the same page here.

Well it works both ways. Both sides can have emergencies and illnesses.

If I wake up at 4 am with MASSIVE EXPLOSIVE DIARRHEA I don't think she wants me showing up that morning. lol

The S.P.s times is valuable which is obvious but so is the gentleman's time.

Maybe the gentleman had to take time off work without pay. Maybe he had to book a hotel room. Maybe he had to pay and send the wife to the spa. lol

Whatever the penalty should be it should work exactly both ways.

Everybody's time is precious and valuable.

Happy birthday sexy!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly what was your response to this question? I can't find it. You instead make replies that just continue your justification of your views, without actually adding or explaining your view.

 

 

 

Troll - Urban dictionary definition

 

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevance to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue

 

Straw Man - Urban dictionary definition.

 

2. A debate technique used to refute an opposing view by misrepresenting the opposing side and then attribute that deliberately misrepresented view to the opponents.

Someone should start to write a straw man document before we can have discussion for all the details.

 

The opposition party has conjured up a bogus image before proceeding to knock it down. They are using that bogus image or fallacy as a straw man for the false and scurrilous claim

 

 

 

When you negotiate with a lady, you are bringing shame to her, no matter what way you look at it. If a lady wants to open the negotiation with you, that is her choice, however, when you start the negotiation, it never amounts to any good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, the new numbers are even higher in favor of not negotiating...90.5% say no, (38 replies), 7% say yes (3 replies) and 2% on the fence (1 reply)

 

 

 

 

 

So, I truly understand why you don't get it.

Was there any point to your post? Just rehashing was has been said many pages ago. You didn't add anything new. I'm glad you understand what troll and straw man are.

If someone doesn't agree with you he must be a troll.

Wow

If I don't agree with you I must be not listening. lol

I don't have anything more to add. C.H. said it best. By far the best post here.

From what I can see here in this post from Phaedrus' date=' I can not see how he was complaining about you not posting ?? If I am wrong, then omit my responds....but I see clearly that you feel a bit out numbered?

 

Not sure how to double quote, so here is a link from Phaedrus...about this thread..

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=493991#post493991[/quote']

 

This is what Phadrus said

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

Just responding to questions.

Thanks, I usually have good ideas like that, sad to see you go though. I would have looked up all your posts so I could be more familiar with your online Cerb persona, but your profile is blocked! And finally, my last word, we are not asking you to personally reply to your thread when we quote you, we are continuing a discussion. JMHO

So Craig was is your mission here?

I thought that was a question. lol Phaedrus was complaining I wasn't responding to his posts and you are saying I am responding to much.

Can't win either way

So Craig, what is your mission here? You seem to need to reply to every post that discusses your way of thinking, and each one you respond to is in a contrary manner, soooo why don't you abandon the thread, find the provider that is suitable for you, instead of trying to create waves in our otherwise peaceful community!

Thats a good idea. BTW i have 42 posts in over 3 years here. Not much of a mission here. People have been asking for replies so I'm replying.

I added the poll, I wanted to stick the thread and use it to help educate new members to the site. So that they can see how wrong it is to do this. The handful of people who voted YES (It's ok) compared to the overwhelming positive results for NO (It is not ok) clearly show this thread was needed and is a issue that needs attention.

 

This thread also lets me see who the trolls are on the site as they can't help themselves on a popular emotional thread like this. They have to post to cause drama with stupid comments. Makes it easier to weed out the unwanted members here.

So it is not allowed to have a an opinion that is against the majority? I thought this was a forum where we can discuss?

Even if my beliefs are found to be wrong that in no way makes me a troll.

Disagree with me if you like but I expect an apology for being called a troll.

If this ends my days on cerb so be it. What a dangerous world we live in when expressing different ideas is considered trolling.

No, not at all. Ladies when they need a quick buck or when business slows many will run "Specials" where they voluntarily drop price for a short time and do higher volume of calls.... they do this themselves and not from someone trying to negotiate. It's supply and demand.

 

 

A house is a TANGIBLE item not a "SERVICE" and most certainly not a SERVICE that is this personal. Your probably not going to go into your lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc... and negotiate a rate (however I am sure some of you would try). When dealing with a escort they are not selling a tangible item and not selling a standard service either, they are selling a very personal service.

 

Bottom line here (as you can see from the ladies responses and the true gentleman's replies) it is NOT acceptable here to negotiate rates. Bottom Line.

 

Unless the lady states she is negotiable in her ad you probably should not try to negotiate (you may find yourself blacklisted for doing so as well from the looks of some posts).

 

I think we have educated the guys with this thread.... lets hope.

A house is a tangible object but NOT THE PERSON SELLING IT! Its apparently ok to negotiate and shortchange this PERSON but in this industry it is disrespectful.

With a lot of ladies advertising rates non- negotiable what does that say about the ones who don't? Were suppose to think that they forgot to mention this in their add but the same applies to them?

The ladies here are quite intelligent and give a lot of thought to their adds. If its not written in their adds its not silly for one to ask.

Simple solution here. Put it in your add.

Well Craig. I was once a gigalo and never had one damn client.... but my opinion is $200 for 45 minutes as apposed to 220 for an hour would be honky dory to take under consideration. Offering $200 instead of $220 for an hour would not be quite the same thing.

The opening post in this thread said it was not acceptable.

Just a question here. Are the people here that are against negotiating against it for this industry only or against it totally in all maters as a matter of principal.

I suspect some of you have negotiated the price of a house. Maybe the house was going for 305 thousands and you offered 300 thousand. They accepted.

Isn't this a lot worse? You just shortchanged them 5 thousand. Perhaps their kid can't go to college anymore. How about the realtor? She lost a few hundred dollars of income. You hurt her family too. Maybe this couple was going through a divorce or someone lost their job and you came in like a vulture and took advantage of them.

If your consistent, you must also admit that negotiating for a house is wrong. If you think asking an SP if she can do 200 for 45 minutes instead of doing 220 for an hour is rude and trying to take advantage of her you must be even more disgusted with people who negotiate for a house.

Replying to a bunch of stuff from the last couple of days...

 

 

 

You've stated your point of view, yes, but my question remains...

 

 

 

Not a dirty word, perhaps (more on this below), but nevertheless a counterproductive one. Again: it's just not worth it.

 

 

 

Right. And I'm arguing that any attempt to haggle is stupid and counter-productive in the long run, even if you do get lucky on occasion. Kinda like playing the lottery, but the odds are even worse.

 

So, yes, I'm happy to concede that we all have the freedom to shoot ourselves in the foot if we feel so inclined. What I'm getting at, for the benefit of folks new to this (since this thread is in the "New To This" forum) is that shooting yourself in the foot is a really bad idea.

 

And also, stupid.

 

And yes, perhaps you do deserve to be ridiculed if you try it, having read this thread...

 

 

 

Or ignorant of what they're missing out on, perhaps.

 

May I suggest you go back and read cyclo's excellent post on the difference between haggling and negotiation? Although you keep talking about "negotiation", that seems inaccurate. What you advocate is haggling: you're trying to get a simple one-time discount, rather than there being any genuine give-and-take.

 

Or if you disagree with that characterization of your position, perhaps you'd care to tell us: when you ask for a discount on a SP's rate, what do you offer in exchange? If you truly negotiate, you won't find that question hard to answer - and I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd be interested to know what that answer is.

 

And while you may not think "negotiation" may not be a dirty word... can you say the same of "haggling"?

 

 

 

Two things to say to this.

 

First: if they began haggling, that's their right. It doesn't mean it's a good tactic for you to do so if they don't.

 

Second: as I've asked previously, do you really think you got the same service for your reduced rate? If you do, please explain why...

 

 

 

It's not that anyone wants to... it's just that some of us consider some ladies to be worth the effort.

 

 

 

If you're that desperate, I suspect a lady with six pages of etiquette guidelines is unlikely to take last-minute appointments and you'd be better off calling someone else :) Still, I may be wrong...

 

 

 

True, but I think most SPs would not be flattered by the comparison to McDonalds. But if you're OK with it... you said it, not me.

 

 

 

I think you're dead right on this... and really, that's the audience most of us are aiming at. We all know this debate is utterly dead to anyone who's likely to join one side of the other. The prize here is the influence on the silent masses; alas, none of us will ever know whether or not we've won it.

 

 

 

A word to those people: if you never post, you will never persuade anyone of your point of view, and things will never change.

 

Obvious, yes, but perhaps it needs saying...

 

 

 

But as I said earlier, this is no longer about them. It's about the audience, who are largely silent.

 

My motivation here is simply to get them to think about the pros and cons of haggling before they try it. My thoughts on that are that the odds are so far against you that trying it is simply stupid, and I'm really looking for someone - anyone - to provide some sort of counter to that. Nobody has, yet.

 

 

 

Two things here.

 

First, there are some ladies who are clearly sick to death of being haggled with. You may not be there, but I get the feeling others are... and that this thread was borne of exasperation rather than anything else.

 

Secondly, there are quite a few of people who feel that the wannabe hagglers should be shot down. Some of those are the ladies who are sick of it; some of the others are guys who don't really like seeing the ladies who may be friends having to put up with that crap. I suspect you benefit from this, even if you don't wish to read it.

 

 

 

Or go ahead and argue the toss, if the mood takes you. That, too, is the Internet.

 

 

 

Now this, my friends, is a man who understands how the Internet works :)

 

 

 

Unless, of course, your tastes run that way. And remember, too, that this is a circle-jerk with an audience :)

The gentlemen who negotiate must be happy with what they are getting. As much as that baffles you I think your going to have to accept that. Claiming that they are to stupid or ignorant to realize what they are missing is laughable at best. Who are you to claim how happy they are? The proof is in the pudding. Again if all was as you saw it negotiating would be gone.

If you have a problem with the definition we are using for the word " negotiating" might I suggest you take that argument with the O.P. We are following her lead. It was in her first post and the title to the thread. For the record I agree with her use of the word but I will let her defend herself to you.

I spoke with 3 girls on Cerb last week who changed their rates after I told them I could not afford what they were asking...

 

I did not start negotiating. I simply said, so how much for an hour, and after their reply I said, sorry, I can't afford that, have a great day...

 

And their responses were: well what can you afford?

So ladies, when he contacts the 4th lady is he to assume rates are non-negotiable when the first 3 were?

These are interesting examples, but I don't think they "debunk" anything. Some of these examples when applied to the sex industry are like comparing apples to oranges. Others, might represent a negotiating opportunity, if they are properly understood in terms of the limited and specific application they have to the sex industry. My comments on each example are included below.

I appreciate the thoughtful post. So nice to get a healthy response rather then an insult or a picture or some silly youtube video.

People negotiate with lawyers all the time. I'm not sure why people keep using this example. It is so common its not funny. If you want to go through every service one by one I would be happy to do so. Lets do it one at a time.

Kicking myself for even starting such an important thread. It's now a joke. So sad.

I thought forums like this were here so we can discuss and exchange ideas and hopefully learn something from each other. Thats my goal anyway. I have learnt a lot but guess what? That doesn't mean I agree with you.

You didn't post this to discuss or learn anything. You posted with the only intent of educating. You're so convinced you're right that you won't even look at the other side.

I honestly came in here with a open mind. Did you?

Your first post was NEGOTIATING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

This does not sound like a person with an open mind willing to discuss.

So if someone doesn't agree with you on this then they are too stupid to understand or simply not listening.

Do you honestly believe you've convinced anyone of anything? Most people understand that attempts to haggle with SPs don't generally go down well. I'll grant that you've managed to get one or two like-minded individuals to crawl out of the woodwork, but that seems to be the limit of your accomplishments thus far.

 

If you believe you're winning, tell me... whose mind have you changed?

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

 

 

Nope. You have debunked nothing, convinced nobody, achieved nothing save (probably) getting yourself on a few ladies' blacklists.

 

 

 

I might ask the same of you, lipualipua. Go ahead. I'm all ears.

 

Just to save you both clicking and scrolling, here's my original questions. You've already had all weekend to think about them. You can have as much longer as you like. But the longer you wait, and the more you fail to come up with any sort of coherent argument, the less likely you are to convince anyone.

Why would people negotiate and is it good to negotiate is not something I'm arguing for. It is the freedom to do so that is important and not be ridiculed for doing so.

If negotiating happened the way you thought it did it would of been gone a long time ago. I suspect that people negotiate because the men are happy with the rates and services they are getting. Unless they are masochistic by nature why would they hurt themselves?

- Your right (or left) hand: you had it since you were born. Spit in it and jerk off. It's always free.

Excellent! I sincerely thank you. Your argument for suppressing ones right to negotiate is so week that insults need to be made to substitute for a lack of logic.

I'm kind of late into this debate but here's the way I look at it.

When I book an appointment with my Doctor, Lawyer or Dentist the fees are non-negotiable...none of you would ever dream of asking those worthy folks for a discount because you know it's just not going to happen. You also respect them too much to suggest such an arrangement.

 

I agree that there are sometimes promotional considerations...specials offered for loyalty visiting or CERB gents or "time of the month" specials but those are offered by the SP of her own volition and not under the pressure of negotiation.They are business choices made freely and openly.

 

I've had conversations with SPs who tell me that they get calls from guys who start by saying something like "I'd really like to book with you but you're too expensive..." for most of them that's the end of the conversation. It shows that the caller is in fact calling the wrong person..."Sorry wrong number!" is what one of my ATFs used to say just before abruptly ending the conversation.

 

As the Mod stated...find a lady you like in line with your budget and go and enjoy....if you don't then you don't repeat and you look again. It's really just that simple.

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy.

"Interesting.

- I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment.

- I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged.

- Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives.

- Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays.

- lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street.

- I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."