Cops seek help from Johns

[roamingguy 300291]

I'm with you too Meaghan. It is our duty to call if we see someone underage. And there are avenues, like Crimestoppers, to contact anonymously.

But our Justice system certainly doesn't make clients want to assist law enforcement. Called johns and perverts by the Attorney General for Canada makes us all pariahs. It's hard for a client to want to assist, even anonymously knowing how the justice system thinks of us

So any assistance provided by clients is done in spite of law enforcement, not because of them

 

RG

[FunValerie 8573]

There is an interesting article in the Economist just being published. When anything to do with escorting becomes illegal, reporting goes down. I am glad that we are all claiming to be good citizens but the stats show that when it becomes illegal to be a client, clients do NOT report. Other research indicates the same thing. Illegal results in no reporting.

 

Having actually dealt with the police there is nothing like the police grilling you in an attempt to get you to admit that you did something wrong so they can lay criminal charges. In my case, I had not even done anything wrong. No one at the police station was interested in the fact that I was reporting wrong-doing by others.

 

Having also discussed this issue with clients who have actually reported trafficking, there is 100% agreement that they would NOT have reported if C36 were in effect.

 

So the iconic consequence of C36 will be an increase in trafficking because people will NOT report. Just wait and see.

[roamingguy 300291]

There is an interesting article in the Economist just being published. When anything to do with escorting becomes illegal, reporting goes down. I am glad that we are all claiming to be good citizens but the stats show that when it becomes illegal to be a client, clients do NOT report. Other research indicates the same thing. Illegal results in no reporting.

 

Having actually dealt with the police there is nothing like the police grilling you in an attempt to get you to admit that you did something wrong so they can lay criminal charges. In my case, I had not even done anything wrong. No one at the police station was interested in the fact that I was reporting wrong-doing by others.

 

Having also discussed this issue with clients who have actually reported trafficking, there is 100% agreement that they would NOT have reported if C36 were in effect.

 

So the iconic consequence of C36 will be an increase in trafficking because people will NOT report. Just wait and see.

 

Not disagreeing with you. Just saying that those clients who do report on underage prostitutes are doing so in spite of law enforcement and the justice system, not because of it

And there is another truism, most of the men here on CERB see reputable companions, those who are adult women, have web sites, profiles and a board presence. We are not likely to run into underage prostitution

But equally true, there are anonymous methods of reporting, ie crimestoppers, 911 from a pay phone etc

A rambling

 

RG

[jk42 270]

@roamingguy, counting on people's good sense is a terrible idea. Many people on here will go to the reputable companions, but we are men. We will want variety and will sometime look for new companions. Statistically, I'm certain a percentage have tried new companions. Of those, a small percentage may have come across a companion of question. (whether it be age or traffic.) Originally, you only had one problem, but thanks two Bill C36 you now have two problems.

 

1) Diffusion of responsibility - Calling the police or any other tip line won't happen as guys won't want to make the call. They'll convince themselves someone else will call and they don't need to worry. It's an excuse, but allows them to "not get involved."

 

2) Bill C36 - Similar to the diffusion, this becomes self centered. The companion might be illegal, but I'm not going to jail to do the right thing. Even before the Bill is passed, guys are probably already hesitant to notify the authorities as they don't want to be known as a future criminal and want to stay under the radar.

 

If the police want to make this work, they'll need to offer incentives. Maybe "Get out of Jail free" cards for information. Because if/when C36 comes into effect, how long will it take for the police to ask others to report johns.

[roamingguy 300291]

@roamingguy, counting on people's good sense is a terrible idea. Many people on here will go to the reputable companions, but we are men. We will want variety and will sometime look for new companions. Statistically, I'm certain a percentage have tried new companions. Of those, a small percentage may have come across a companion of question. (whether it be age or traffic.) Originally, you only had one problem, but thanks two Bill C36 you now have two problems.

 

1) Diffusion of responsibility - Calling the police or any other tip line won't happen as guys won't want to make the call. They'll convince themselves someone else will call and they don't need to worry. It's an excuse, but allows them to "not get involved."

 

2) Bill C36 - Similar to the diffusion, this becomes self centered. The companion might be illegal, but I'm not going to jail to do the right thing. Even before the Bill is passed, guys are probably already hesitant to notify the authorities as they don't want to be known as a future criminal and want to stay under the radar.

 

If the police want to make this work, they'll need to offer incentives. Maybe "Get out of Jail free" cards for information. Because if/when C36 comes into effect, how long will it take for the police to ask others to report johns.

 

I'm not counting on people's good sense, never said I was. I'm saying with C36 if a client reports seeing an underage prostitute, he is doing so in spite of the justice system, not because of it. The police however are counting on people's good sense. Anyone coming forward to police, well the police should be very appreciative. Will they be, probably not

And for me, if I did see someone underage, I would report it...it can be done anonymously through crimestoppers etc. And LE tools like crimestoppers has worked for years, along with TIP's lines, anonymously calling dispatch etc. If they didn't work, police wouldn't have them. So I don't agree with the diffusion of responsibility argument. But a person coming forward using these resources is not doing it for police, but to help an underaged prostitute who is a victim

If you stay anonymous, you run little if any risk of going to jail. Those truly afraid of going to jail after C36 aren't going to be seeing escorts anymore and thus not run into underage prostitutes.

But I'm not ever likely to see an underage prostitute. I see reputable companions, those with a website, board handle and board presence well you get the idea

 

RG

[jk42 270]

As you said it, you only see reputable companions, therefore, you'll never be in a position to need to call. But say C36 passes and you did find an underage, would you hold to your morality, or would you hold back either out of concern OR for spite of bill C36?

[FunValerie 8573]

I have yet to meet one real live person in the flesh who said that he would report if C 36 were in effect.

 

I have met real live people who reported in the past.

[roamingguy 300291]

As you said it, you only see reputable companions, therefore, you'll never be in a position to need to call. But say C36 passes and you did find an underage, would you hold to your morality, or would you hold back either out of concern OR for spite of bill C36?

 

Well I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday. And if I saw someone underage I would report, now and post C36. Like has been said, anonymous reporting to the police is possible.

All one has to think of any possible consequence I might suffer pales in comparison to what an underage girl is going through

But as I added, I see reputable companions, those who are on CERB, board presence, etc, so I'm not likely to run into underage companions. In fact I can't envision a situation where I would run into someone underage. I avoid sites like BP and CL, and definitely street corners.

And one C36 passes I will likely stick to ladies I know

A morning rambling

 

RG

[Juice 2105]

Most decisions in life are a matter of trade-offs. Yes, no doubt you would like to help a trapped SP, but you also have obligations to take care of your kids, keep your job, maybe also take care of your elderly parents, etc. -- how are you going to do that when your ass is in jail?

 

This is why no one reports these crimes in Sweden. I read somewhere that only one person in 10 years reported trafficking in Sweden and the cops arrested him.

[rep_pot 661]

That's why you can report it anonymously. As previous posts have said. It is your moral responsibility.

[Juice 2105]

Yes the Crimestoppers line or some other anonymous method (careful which number you call from) might allow you to report suspicion of a trafficked SP. Perhaps this would help, but I have a feeling that for something as serious as trafficking the police would need to grill a witness in person, not just listen to an anonymous voice mail.

 

The stupidity of the government is incredible. They can't learn from their own lessons. Recently CRA put in place a policy where they reward people providing tips on tax cheating with a percentage of the tax recovered from acting on these tips. Officials were astounded at the evidence that came flooding in.

 

If they really wanted to get rid of trafficking, they ought to make prostitution legal and offer rewards to those who provide evidence leading to arrests of traffickers. Then Police would have eyes and ears everywhere.

[FunValerie 8573]

Yes the Crimestoppers line or some other anonymous method (careful which number you call from) might allow you to report suspicion of a trafficked SP. Perhaps this would help, but I have a feeling that for something as serious as trafficking the police would need to grill a witness in person, not just listen to an anonymous voice mail.

 

The stupidity of the government is incredible. They can't learn from their own lessons. Recently CRA put in place a policy where they reward people providing tips on tax cheating with a percentage of the tax recovered from acting on these tips. Officials were astounded at the evidence that came flooding in.

 

If they really wanted to get rid of trafficking, they ought to make prostitution legal and offer rewards to those who provide evidence leading to arrests of traffickers. Then Police would have eyes and ears everywhere.

 

You are right. I spoke to the police recently. For serious charges, there have to be witnesses and people have to be willing to show up in court. No one will be showing up in court to testify about anything after C36 comes into effect.

[roamingguy 300291]

Yes the Crimestoppers line or some other anonymous method (careful which number you call from) might allow you to report suspicion of a trafficked SP. Perhaps this would help, but I have a feeling that for something as serious as trafficking the police would need to grill a witness in person, not just listen to an anonymous voice mail.

 

The stupidity of the government is incredible. They can't learn from their own lessons. Recently CRA put in place a policy where they reward people providing tips on tax cheating with a percentage of the tax recovered from acting on these tips. Officials were astounded at the evidence that came flooding in.

 

If they really wanted to get rid of trafficking, they ought to make prostitution legal and offer rewards to those who provide evidence leading to arrests of traffickers. Then Police would have eyes and ears everywhere.

 

First call from a pay phone, not a cell or home phone.

Two, if you don't want to be a witness, call crimestoppers, give them detailed information (when, where, who, well you get the idea)

If anonymity is a concern, it takes very little effort to stay anonymous

And the police may like to interview potential witnesses, but only if you come forward as a witness. But if you stay anonymous they can't talk to you

 

RG

[waterat 20911]

But if you stay anonymous they can't talk to you

 

RG

 

.... and there goes any chance of successful prosecution and the hope of minimizing trafficking.

[roamingguy 300291]

.... and there goes any chance of successful prosecution and the hope of minimizing trafficking.

 

But it may be enough for the police to start an investigation.

And it's more than doing nothing at all, especially considering people seem to be saying no one will really do anything, crimestoppers etc is a lot more than doing nothing

Especially if you give the police detailed enough information

 

RG

[misterdiscretion2014 2032]

It's very unfortunate that all hobbyists and service providers get painted with the same brush, but it is the reality. While most of us on sites like this are interested in seeing genuine courtesans, well versed in the art of carnal pleasure and at ease with the emotional toll the profession can take, society sees us all as the guy cruising the streets, in search of "fresh meat", a term I have heard more than once by people who prefer this type of "date". It's not fair, but that's the world we live in - where people assume everyone on both sides of the sex trade is either a drug addict, sexual predator or lost soul.

 

The issue of coming forward in reporting this ugly part of the sex trade is part of the larger issue of the shame and stigma associated with the industry. It's not acceptable to say to people you had an amazing time with an sp the previous evening, with wonderful conversation, intimacy, and of course, quite often, mind blowing sex. Once you "pay for it", you're supposed to sit in silence and pretend like it never happened, this dark secret that must be kept from the rest of the world.

 

By this standard, it will be extremely difficult to change the laws in this country, as most people involved in this business don't want anyone to know, making proper advocacy nearly impossible, as only a select few sp's are brave enough to come forward, and up to this point, almost no hobbyists are willing to face the backlash of admitting they "pay for sex", which is the scope the outside world sees us.

[waterat 20911]

By this standard, it will be extremely difficult to change the laws in this country,

 

Yes, I agree. In an article from The Economist posted in the general Canada wide discussion forum it was suggested that about 80% of encounters were between consenting adults choosing to be involved in the sex trade. However the references to bill C36, the rationale for its proposed laws and the media coverage have focused on street prostitution and the various harms associated with it. It is very difficult for Joe public to make any sense of this.

 

The good news? Many cerb members are Joe public!