The New Panties on policy in Ottawa - Do you agree?

[cgnex 1616]

Sorry, but this isn't about your feelings or your character. You're using a lot of words but they only show that you aren't connecting the dots.

 

You're planting a lot of trees and then claiming you only planted trees, while denying the forest.

 

If you really want to support and respect dancers and the industry, then SHOW them respect and honour their decisions instead of arguing for the reinstatement of old policies that *require* them to remove panties for people who aren't willing to pay for the CR.

[r__d 12698]

 

.... a troubling undertone of male entitlement - and I say that as a man. If a dancer chooses to place limits on what she reveals on stage, I fully support that. If I find her attractive, interesting and fun, I will fairly compensate her in the CR for the privilege of expanding upon mutually agreed boundaries.

 

Demanding 'rules' around 'required' panty removal is just creepy and disrespectful, in my opinion.

 

You don't own a dancer because you purchased an over priced beer. Dancers deserve to be treated with respect and are entitled to impose their own limits.

 

However your views may differ from those of the OP or the "majority" of those responding to the poll, I'm not sure that any of the posts in the thread expressed demands for rules requiring anything, leave alone the suggestion that patrons "own" dancers, even as one understands that the verb "own" is used here in a rhetorical sense.

 

Use of the term "undertone" (in the context of discerning a whiff of "male entitlement") suggests that this is less than explicit in the posts and may not fairly characterize the attitudes of all (or even most) posters.

 

However, it may be true that certain expectations have been built up over time and many clubgoers will be far from immune to such expectations, thus leading to a certain disappointment or uncertainty when things appear to be changing and the expected experience differs from that of the past.

 

In general, I would think that "demands" and "policy"-making would be the prerogative of management (within the bounds of reason - which could provide controversy for some i.e. what is reasonable?), although management (at any business) would be well advised to consider the effects of any hard-and-fast policy on the attitudes of clientele.

[HUGS AND KISSES 2276]

I don't see any point in continuing this out of respect for members and the board just to say briefly that if you had opinions to the contrary (which is fine as 30% did) then you should have posted them in a mature civilized manner by sharing them what those opinions are and with reasons as others did WITHOUT attacking those who may differ with yours (70% of membership) and without accusing them so falsely of claiming male entitlement or owning a dancer or forcing a dancer or being disrespectful or wanting a vaginal inspection!!!. Things that nobody and no one ever said even remotely in any of the posts.

[cgnex 1616]

Use of the term "undertone" (in the context of discerning a whiff of "male entitlement") suggests that this is less than explicit in the posts and may not fairly characterize the attitudes of all (or even most) posters.

 

I don't have any issue with this statement. I used the term undertone with the specific intent you describe.

 

If others attitudes are more nuanced, that's okay. I feel a pretty obvious perspective is being overlooked in this discussion and interjected: purpose of a discussion forum, yes?

 

Despite a lot of noise in this thread, the OP seemed to be miffed about the relaxing of a policy that allowed a dancer to choose to keep her panties on for public and unpaid part of her gig.

Before = policy with no choice

Now = dancer has choice

OP interjected that the vote was about original policy - his own clarification.

 

Second issue is the bogus economic argument. Strip clubs are suffering for many reasons including accessibility of porn, ease of finding escorts and ma who give more for less (ie this forum) - not because dancers aren't dropping panties on their third song.

 

Bottom line - if you want strip clubs to survive and have quality dancers ,then respect the dancers, pay the dancers. I think we all agree that when you're in the CR the panties are dropped, so what's the problem?

 

A problem only exists for those who aren't paying and respecting the dancers.

[alphalink 268]

I lived in B.C. for some time, where stage shows were the only thing, no CRs at all. The shows were great, and if they were especially good there was a full parking lot and standing room only. Obviously, the no-knickers policy was in effect often from the first song onwards. The bars did very well flogging their awful draught beer, the girls made very good money, and it was generally good for all involved. I'm not sure that I have a preference for either form of dancing, each having its own merits, but I will say that men are generally there to see the wonders of nature, and have little desire to use the imagination. I do miss that aspect, being fond of an utterly shameless display of whatever charms, however, just the opinion of an old goat pining away for the green grass of better days...

[maleguy2015 513]

strip clubs have had the ladies strip down to their bottoms for as long as a i remember and its been part of the experience. Nobody likes change. The ladies have the rights not to take off their panties just as i have the right not to go.

 

And here is why i had such issues with this....it was one thing that nobody took off their panties on stage but the same night I had an experience where the lady didn't take off her panties in the champagne room after 2 dances and all I'm thinking is what the hell (i didn't say anything and politely declined another dance). This practice is creeping its way into the champagne room as well.

 

Anyways in the end it just means one less option when i go out with friends. I usually have a much better time with ladies at CMJ during their parties (both in and out of sessions) but it isn't something i'm going to do with friends.

 

Additional Comments:

I think we all agree that when you're in the CR the panties are dropped, so what's the problem?

 

I can't agree with that considering what happened the last time i went in the CR room. I'm always clean and respectful when i go so....

 

it was the first time its happened to me in the CR but then again its been the first time i have been there since the panties policy changed

[trout 1256]

A lot of guys that just want to see a naked woman other than their wife or gf, and some are maybe willing to risk the ultra cologne on them after champagne room, but you can bet those guys wont be heading back to the topless only bars because it defeats the purpose of their mission to see a naked woman other than their wife. Not every guy wants to see an SP or MA, just an actual naked woman they aren't in a relationship with.

[Nesbot 598]

You guys do realize that there has always been the 3 song rule in the champagne room? Many new dancers won't get completely naked until the third song. If a veteran dancer employs that tactic than I think I'd rather spend my hard earned money elsewhere. Strip clubs are increasingly becoming obsolete because quite frankly they just charge too much compared to SP and MA's. If they now refuse to strip....you know...at a strip club, then forget it.

[alphalink 268]

You guys do realize that there has always been the 3 song rule in the champagne room? Many new dancers won't get completely naked until the third song.

 

Have never gone three, second at worst usually. Three strikes, and one's out in my book. As i'm getting my feet wet again after quite a hiatus, I'm hoping that once a degree of familiarity with each other is established, the preamble to the main event will be dispensed with, but it's all good. Haven't seen a SP (in many a year), or a MA (ever), but I do see the need for value for money, and $60 to admire an undergarment seems a bit much. Do MAs cater to the visual and voyeuristic leanings of patrons, or is it more of a workmanlike body-slide and whatever else sort of thing? I personally enjoy being tantalized initially.

[HUGS AND KISSES 2276]

It is important to know at this moment the majority of nude dancers entertain audience with nude stage dancing. Only at a couple of bars the nude part of dancing has been relaxed.

 

Also there are a proportion of dancers who go extra ways to entertain patrons on stage but putting efforts and energy into their dances. I am suggesting that those sitting next or close to stage or even far from stage please reward those ladies (or even all who entertain you with nude dances) with a small ($5 or $10) bill on stage for her during or right after her stage dance. Doing so for a few selected dancers wouldn't cost much and since different patrons have different preferences then many dancers will be encouraged to perform best and rewarded as well and wouldn't regard stage dancing as a have to performed task or waste of their time. Just a suggestion. I have always had problems with ladies not being paid by the bars for stage dancing and totally understand their (some) reluctance and feel very bad for those not making money in the clubs. It is not fair to work and not been paid.

[MeganDancer 3675]

this thread has gone too far

 

There's NO such rule as to keep our panties on stage NOR that rule has been relaxed in some bars, it hasnt

 

The industry is already slow, do you realise you could make us loose curious guys coming to see us by spreading such false rumours about a new rule that doesnt exist

 

sorry to sound harsh but someone needed to say something

 

this discussion goes in way too much useless details and suppositions ... we HAVE to remove our panties. If you're not satisfyed you can go complain to the manager and the lady will be fined 20$ , and probably will never speak to you again , and tell all the other girls who complained and they will gang up against you and everytime you ll step foot in a club youll be known as "the panties complainer"

 

end of story

[safety11 1327]

Like I said in my post on Page 2... not a rule, not a policy... and sorry to say, the title of this thread could be construed as misleading.

 

Again, if you're seeing a large number of girls "not showing enough" onstage, you're seeing the management slipping up a bit.

 

Having said that, as others have alluded to, I would rather the management keep the room happy than riding the girls too hard. Just my opinion: The whole damn thing works better when the room is good, and the room is good... and YOUR entertainment is better... when the girls are feeling good.

[Guest ***rd**n]

I think the only way to settle this once and for all is with a good old fashioned mud wrestling match. Hugs and Kisses vs Cgnex. HK can get all his stripper girl friends to be ring girls for the odd numbered matches, panties off. Cgnex can get all his stripper girl friends to do the even numbered matches, panties on. Or better yet just have a big old battle royale. HK and his buddies can go commando and Cgnex and his buddies can stick with the tighty whities. Winner gets a belt and can be king of the strip clubs and the prize money can be donated to charity or something. Probably wouldn't be the most visually stimulating thing you'd want to see, maybe it is best to leave the dancing to the professionals.

[Kilt Boy 29352]

If I'd seen this earlier, I probably would've participated. As above, and as posted in the locker rooms, them panties gotta drop. Otherwise, fines. That's a rule. I've seen some ladies not do so (maybe last year) and considered mentioning it, but to what end? Depending on the day, or the girl, or the club, or the clientelle, I can see why it might happen. The 'hip slip' is a nod to that rule.

 

I think MeganDancer has posted a picture of those rules before, somewhere.

 

I agree with stage tipping. Not everyone comes in with a fat roll of fives though, so it might take a while to catch on. I mean, I do. Obviously. Not everyone is me. I'm pretty sure most of you aren't.

 

I personally don't think that it is absolutely necessary to get a gynecological closeup every time a dancer hits the stage. I don't feel the burning need to examine the different shades of pink. I certainly enjoy it, but I'm not crushed on the rare occasion that it doesn't happen. I've spoken with some dancers about it and they told me that they just forgot, or are on their cycle. I've seen some dancers taken to task by management about this very thing, so it is still a rule everywhere as far as I know. Talk to the DJ. He'll tell you.

[Kilt Boy 29352]

The rule, as I know it:

 

2 song club - top off during first song, panties off during second song.

 

3 song club - top off during second song (or earlier), panties off during third song (and earlier if they want).

 

In the champagne room, the typical technique is to tease for a while. This is a standard technique, so I don't know why anyone is surprised by it.

 

Top off after the first song. Bottoms off after the second song. If she is comfortable with you, those may relax somewhat. I tend to spend on regulars, so they usually get right to the biscuits from the start. Some get naked before the music starts. That's a choice they make. Maybe you don't make them feel safe. I'm not saying that's the case, just that there are many possible reasons. Maybe they really only feel like doing 2 songs because they're tired.

 

Regardless, there is no relaxed 'panties on' rule.

[Guest pagypie]

i'm trying to bite my tongue because it seems people are losing a lot of their points in translation in a text/forum medium.

 

For H&K I don't think you are intending this, but youre so focused on panties that you're giving off the impression that at a club, you're entitled to watch dancers remove their bottoms. You're posting A LOT about this not only in this thread but others. and youre hyper-defensive reaction in this thread isnt required and no one is trying to "sabotage" you. its a discussion forum, so discuss things :)

You're simultaneously saying you have no issue with a dancer choosing not to do it, then you attempt to disqualify it by saying its about "economics" or about "keeping customers curious". It doesn't matter what the reason is, if the dancer chooses not to remove them, then that's where the discussion ends. it doesnt matter what the reason is.

 

thank you to megan for clarifying the rules as well. and she brings up a good point in saying that this thread is proposing new top secret rules that dont exist; only different clubs willingness to enforce rules or even with particular dancers.

 

wish there was less focus in what parts you see on stage. i would hate to sit there with a checklist to determine if i liked a dance or not. i've seen fully clothed dances that were great. i've had experiences in the CR with fully clothed dancers that were great.

 

last i just want to say the more comfortable a dancer is with you and being at work in general, the better your experience will be.

[cgnex 1616]

.... Cgnex and his buddies can stick with the tighty whities. ...

 

That's how we roll. Unless there is a rule that specificly requires we drop'em.

 

Then it gets freaky.

 

Additional Comments:

wish there was less focus in what parts you see on stage. i would hate to sit there with a checklist to determine if i liked a dance or not. i've seen fully clothed dances that were great. i've had experiences in the CR with fully clothed dancers that were great.

 

Agreed. Personally, stage plays almost no role in who I choose for the CR; panties or no panties. Aside from general attractiveness, conversation, personality and compatibility are far more important and that is decided at the table. I also often request that a dancer go slow when in the CR. I typically stay awhile and want to let the dancer know she can take her time and get comfortable with me.

 

This creates a comfortable environment that benefits both parties and I've never had a problem with boundaries.

 

Fiinally, I'm not saying the 'no panty ' guys are all creeps. H&K seems like a good guy who really likes strip clubs. I just think they are losing their minds at the thought of vagina and seriously losing perspective and consideration for the dancers.

 

Now I'm off to prance in my tighty whities for guardian.

[trout 1256]

Most guys go to a strip club to see nude dancers. If the dancers aren't nude, they will go to the club that has the nude dancers. It's all pretty easy to figure out.