How can you tell?

[Guest]

As we are all fully aware there is a dark side to this hobby/line of work, especially as it comes down to the ladies being forced into this line of work. I often am very reluctant to regularly participate in this hobby because I am always afraid the person I am with is not freely participating and all I might be doin is further victimizing her. So my biggest question/help from everyone especially the ladies, how can I tell if someone is forced into this? Is there even a way to tell? What should I avoid? What should I look for to be sure that the person is truly freely independent in providing services?

[Gregsand 6116]

A major hint is when the procurer won't allow you to talk directly to her on the phone. It's not a good sign.

 

If you go to an incall location and the security is abnormally high, it should also be a hint something is not quite right.

 

On this website and more precisely in the recommendations section, there plenty of independent and semi-independent ladies you can talk to directly. Contacting them should put your mind at ease.

[cat 262460]

This is a tricky question to answer given the variables. For every "trafficked red flag" I can give you 5 reasons why a provider may willingly have these policies/procedures in place. Along with the complexities of seemingly "independent" providers who have a manager/life partner it is truly almost impossible to tell.

 

The things I would be wary of are fairly simple to spot.

 

1. How old is she? The younger the provider, the higher the chance she has a handler.

 

2. Does she have an online presence other than sites that cater to transient lower end providers like BackPage?

 

3. How much does she charge? Providers who charge below market rate are either new or have a less than ethical handler. They know they will make their $ on volume which inevitably burns out a provider. A consensual provider knows her needs/limits both financially and physically and charges accordingly. A trafficked provider has no say in her prices and her handler knows he can replace her as soon as she crashes.

 

4. Does she actually have common sense policies in place?

 

a. Does she verify? If she didn't, then she probably has security in place. The pushback on verification in Canada has always been an issue and you can't blame a provider for trying to stay safe and still make a living. If she does verify, it's because she's trying to mitigate risk, doesn't want to shoulder the costs to have additional security on site. Keeping overhead down is a distinctly professional approach. Low prices and no verification should be a red flag.

 

b. Does she require a 2 call/location system? After she's verified you, does she give her actual address or require you to come to a specific location then call for the actual address? Again, an independent trying to stay safe usually utilizes this policy.

 

c. Is she working out of low end motels? This could be because she's trying to get on her feet but if she's high volume and only in town for a limited time, some concern is warranted.

 

d. Does she have non negotiable service boundaries prior to meeting? Independent providers are very upfront about what they don't offer, unethical handlers know they can say yes to everything and then simply intervene if the client gets aggressive over the discrepancy.

 

The truth is that the seemingly dark side of genuinely trafficked women in the business is a small portion of this vast industry. There are many women who have partners who run the administration end of things and necessarily so. Some would call the partner a pimp, others would call them a manager. It's impossible to know unless you know them both. I've known managers that were brilliant at what they did and weren't parasitic and I've known MTV pimps that were wastes of oxygen. The problem is that you have professional providers, part timers and fast in and outs that are all consensual providers and their business models are varied which makes it's incredibly difficult to identify who is willing and who is not.

 

What is easy is to see the consensual professional providers out there. They have a website, social media and usually some kind if board presence. Their prices are seemingly higher but that's because their overhead is higher. They pay their taxes, they maintain incalls and websites, they pay for their advertising on sites other than BackPage. They do their due diligence by verifying clients. They value their reputation and they protect their brand. It may be a little more out of pocket for you but is well worth the peace of mind that comes from knowing you are patronizing someone who is willingly working in the industry.

 

smiles, cat

[Rambler1980 1359]

I've not usually found it hard. First off I'd say 90% of the providers I've chosen to see in Halifax have been in my estimation independent.

 

1) If the provider is very mechanical, low-energy, feels like she's putting in a days work thats a tell tale sign. Or she is non-confident in what she is up for doing with you.

 

2) Usually can tell somewhat by the location. If it's her apartment is the bedroom setup for a woman or a woman+man, likewise in the bathroom. All lady products or is there some some AXE shampoo, etc. If it's a hotel ask her casually how much the room is per night, if she doesn't know she probably has a handler.

 

3) The providers I've liked are usually talkative and tell you a bit about themselves and build confidence that you are dealing only with them.

 

4) I sometimes ask if they have a boyfriend

 

5) All Asians have handlers, I've never seen an exception to that rule. If you see an Asian provider she's getting a cut and one or several others are getting a cut.

 

I should also mention that a provider who has a BF doesn't mean she has a handler. I've dealt with several providers that had boyfriends, doesn't mean I met them or they handled the money (or that the BF's even knew).

[RhinestoneCowboy 1211]

I've not usually found it hard. First off I'd say 90% of the providers I've chosen to see in Halifax have been in my estimation independent.

 

I read your warning post. If this hobby were legal for men, we'd be able to report situations like the one you referred to in that post to the police, but as it stands now they would likely end up charging you just because they could.

 

Isn't is ironic that the law actually dissuades us from reporting underage/coerced/trafficked girls if we witness it? Shouldn't the priority be to identify young victims and assist them, rather than to punish horny, but otherwise law-abiding, men?

[cat 262460]

I read your warning post. If this hobby were legal for men, we'd be able to report situations like the one you referred to in that post to the police, but as it stands now they would likely end up charging you just because they could.

 

Isn't is ironic that the law actually dissuades us from reporting underage/coerced/trafficked girls if we witness it? Shouldn't the priority be to identify young victims and assist them, rather than to punish horny, but otherwise law-abiding, men?

Apologies for the small hijack of this thread but...

 

Up until a couple of years ago, clients were not criminalized in any way and the number of police reports concerning trafficked persons were negligible. One can still report a concern anonymously by calling CrimeStoppers now so it shouldn't deter anyone. I find it interesting that providers always carried all of the legal risk prior to C36. Clients demanded things like incalls with impunity, refused to verify and disregarded of the position their refusal put us in. If we stood our ground on verifying, clients refused to book. If we voiced concerns either in person or online about it, we were vilified for being mouthy/opinionated. Now that clients are on the other side of the equation, I see it mentioned regularly online as if it's a huge risk and burden. No where in the country has LE changed it's enforcement tactics regarding the industry. They aren't setting up indoor stings for clients nor are they pressuring providers to hand over client information. They have maintained status quo of only concerning themselves with trafficked, outdoor and underaged workers. There has been no change, literally. I empathize with the legal situation clients find themselves in but it is difficult to sympathize given how little they did to alleviate our risk when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

The legislation changed but the enforcement didn't. Don't let it stop you from doing the right thing if you see a provider you think is being forced to perform...

 

smiles, cat

[Gregsand 6116]

I read your warning post. If this hobby were legal for men, we'd be able to report situations like the one you referred to in that post to the police, but as it stands now they would likely end up charging you just because they could.

 

Isn't is ironic that the law actually dissuades us from reporting underage/coerced/trafficked girls if we witness it? Shouldn't the priority be to identify young victims and assist them, rather than to punish horny, but otherwise law-abiding, men?

 

That's not quite true. There anonymous tip lines like Crime Stoppers to report this kind of concern without getting involved. If you witnessed an assault or flagrant abuse, a 911 call will certainly be more effective. But if lives are not in immediate danger, the anonymous way will certainly help in addressing the problem.