Lou 9208 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Since the campain began, I have read many posts on Cerb that were kind of harsh in regard of the Bloc Québécois. Too each there point of view, we live in a democracy, I am fine with it and by saying this I am not insinuating that I am a hard core souverainiste or a souverainist at all. Some believe that what happened with the NDP means that Québec independence is "has been". Let me tell you that since the night of May 2, I have never heard that much interest in independance again. The fact that Ontario and Toronto voted strongly in favor of the Conservative means for many that we don't live "on the same planet" and don't share the same values at all and that it is time more than ever to say bye Canada. This comes mainly from people who voted for the NDP hoping that the ROC would do likewise simply to get rid of Harper. My intention here is not to start a thread about the legitimacy of the existence of the Bloc but to understand why some of you are offended by the idea that Québec could "break Canada" one day? If Québec cost so much to Canada in terms of equalization and others, why is it a problem for you that half of Quebec wishes to be country? WHat does Canada means to you? Why is it so fundamental that Canada stays the way it is? What do you gain by having Québec in the federation if we cost you money? Is it our charming French accent? Is it the fact that Gaspesia has been chosen by Unesco as one of the most beautiful places in the world or because of the numerous strip clubs? Why would it trouble you or change anything for you? Is it because you are traditionalist and things should never change like the one's who believe the royal family should stay because "it's tradition" (that i get it even less)??? Sincerly I don't get it? We would still be there, we would not cut the ground and move the province next to San Diego or Florida for a warmer weather! Please someone take 2 minutes of your precious time to explain that mistery to me. Merci!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted May 5, 2011 OMG surely we're not going to open up the constitution here on CERB? Following the election was one thing but discussing National Unity.....oi vay! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wellie 652 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 This is a sensitive topic for anglophones as well as francophones. What unites Cerbites is the conviction that a pussy is beautiful no matter what language its owner speaks. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surf_Nazis_Must_Die 8958 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Oh boy, I can't believe i'm going to get involved in this. I'm gonna go with the fact that the east coast would suddenly be cut off from the rest of the country would be pretty shitty. Having lived in Quebec a few years back, I understand that the quebecois have a beautiful and unique culture that is different from the rest of canada, and a part of me can understand the separatist beliefs. It was kind of like living in a different country. However, I have also lived in B.C, and central alberta, and have spent time in many other parts of the country and to be honest, EVERY region in canada has it's own uniqueness and differences from the rest of the country. Should Nunavut separate because they are so distinctly different from the white collar, government culture of Ottawa? Should the Acadians in New Brunswick follow suit if quebec separates? They also have a culture and heritage that's heavily francophone. How about Manitobans? What the hell do I have in common with a Fisherman from Nova Scotia? It may sound Cliche'd, but our overall diversity is kind of what makes Canada rad. Not just the people, but even the terrain. Being a prairie boy, I felt like I was on a another planet when I hiked through B.C.'s forests. Quebecers may be more vocal about it, but you aren't the only ones who feel like you don't quite fit in. We live in a huge country, there's bound to be differences in belief and culture. It's just kind of part of what makes us canadian. I'm not sure if this will help or not. Juts my half thought out ramblings. P.S. While you may not like alberta's politics, I'm willing to bet you enjoy their incredible beef ;) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Putting all the politics and economics aside, my Canada has and always will include Quebec. Just as young men and boys from every province and different heritages, speaking different languages, stood side by side on distant battlefields in the defence of freedom, I firmly believe that Canada can only face the challenges and dangers the future offers by having all of her Provincial and Territorial powers standing together. While I will always acknowledge Canada's flaws and many imperfections, I love this country and will always consider Seperatism an inherent enemy to it, a dangerous and misguided political force that is just as dangerous to those it claims to help as anyone else. Fortunately, the people of Quebec have always had the wisdom to reject it, even when pro seperatist forces have blatantly cheated. Too often Canada seems to be a bunch of squabbling siblings, arguing stubbornly, but we are still, and always will be, family, even though we sometimes don't like each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lou 9208 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Thanks for your answers. I do not want to reopen the constitution, go over meech, over the suffering and injustices the francos lived and the sponsorship scandal, etc.. My question is what is your attachment to quebec and canada? That's'it. And for those who wish to talk pussy well read the threads about pussies and avoid the one's'you dislike just like it was extensivly debate in the thread about cerbites exchanging about their personnal problems on cerb. I am not loking for a fight. the nations who wish for independance, wether they are inuit, quebecois, croatians, irish, basque or albertan have the right to wish for it. These are nations decisions that should respect democracy which everyone has a right to. I don't think anymore than that needs to be say and anyway, it was not at all the intent of my post. Again, what i would like to understand, and thanks for the one's'who nicely did answer my question, is why is it so important to you that canada stays the way it is and even more if quebec cost you money? Pretty simple. Posted via Mobile Device Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 United we stand.... Canada is the best country in the world. One reason for making Canada the best is the bilingual nature of this country and that is because we have Quebec as a province of Canada and the other being our multicultural society and how various cultures get along so well and live together in peace and harmony (not to mention increasing level in inter-racial marriages, and restaurants and many more....). Quebec is what is making Canada so unique in the world. It is like the crown for a king. What would remain of Canada without Quebec? and what would be Quebec without Canada? We share so much of history, happiness and sadness together for so many years. We fought wars against our common enemies for so many years. We share our victories and defeats. We celeberated and wiped together for so many years. Quebers and rest of Canadians stood alongside each other and defended this country against the enemies for so many years. We built this great country together and alongside each other for decades. We fought alongside each other to acquired our rights together. We shared ministers and Prime Ministers and many more. We have many hundreds of thousands of people who are born as a result of love between Quebecer and non-Quebecer Canadians and after all these you want to separate!!!!!!?????? Millions of people all over the world are lined up for years to get a chance to become Canadian citizens. Quebecers are already citizens of this great country and they want to break!!!??? The whole world is shocked and numbed by even hearing about this. God bless Canada forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wellie 652 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Oops. I guess I am in trouble with Lou. I am sorry if I offended you. I did not say that I dislike this thread. In fact I think it is a great thread. I also did not mean to say that this thread is inappropriate on this forum. My main point was that the status of Quebec in Canada is a very sensitive topic. One can say platitudes ("My Canada includes Quebec"), but it is very difficult to speak from the heart on this topic and at the same time avoid offending various readers. The thread would likely deteriorate into nasty arguments and hurt feelings. My "pussy" comment may have been snarky, but it was meant to say that among CERB readers an interest in sex is unifying and not as divisive as a discussion of the status of quebec would be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300291 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Well I am attached to Quebec the same as I am attached to BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, PEI, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, the Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut. It isn't the question of better off or worse off or what difference will it make, to use a gestalt term, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Canada (including Quebec) is greater together, than the sum (10 Provinces and 3 Territories) of it's parts...but should Quebec seperate, not only will Canada lose, but so will, imho, Quebec. That's as far as I'm willing to venture in this discussion. To start a debate requires too much research (haven't done that since my university days) and it's hard to do without some emotion. Not to mention perspectives. Lou, as someone living in Quebec, you see the matter from the inside, looking out, where as living in the rest of Canada, we see the issue from the outside looking in. No one is wrong, just see it from different perspectives. RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Honestly, if half of Quebec wants to be their own nation, go for it. I'm not particularly attached to any part of Canada. If you're determined to be a sovereign nation, by all means, do it up. I'm not going to stop you, nor do I care. I don't get this crazy nationalism--I'm looking at you SA! It's not like Canada is going to cease to exist if Quebec splits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Honestly, if half of Quebec wants to be their own nation, go for it. I'm not particularly attached to any part of Canada. If you're determined to be a sovereign nation, by all means, do it up. I'm not going to stop you, nor do I care. I don't get this crazy nationalism--I'm looking at you SA! It's not like Canada is going to cease to exist if Quebec splits. Since you mentioned me in your post...... Canada will cease to exist as we know it. It will not be the same Canada. I would look at it as statements of facts and history rather than nationalism. And If you know about me then you would know why I might be a bit nationalistic about Canada but it is not crazy as you put it because this nationalism is trying to bring people together and not used for divisions and hate. Not caring about what happens is the one which I don't understand it. because all our lives will be affected (adversely in my view) if it ever happen (God forbid). Yes I do agree if more than half of Quebers wants to separate they should and have the right. But lets provide all the facts about what unite us rather than what should divide us (if there are any) rather than saying I don't care. Go and good luck LOL!!!. Quebecers may think we don't care...... Edited May 5, 2011 by S*****t Ad*****r Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 Canada will cease to exist as we know it. It will not be the same Canada. I would look at it as statements of facts and history rather than nationalism. And If you know about me then you would know why I might be a bit nationalistic about Canada and it is not crazy as you put it because this nationalism is trying to bring people together and not used for divisions and hate. Not caring about what happens is the one which I don't understand it. because all our lives will be affected (adversely in my view) if it ever happen (God forbid). What are these adverse affects you speak of? Canada isn't exactly the happy, multicultural melting pot you describe. And if we're going on statements of fact and history, the French and English have been fighting since we were colonies of England and France. My Canadian history is a bit rusty since I haven't actually studied it since high school, but I'm pretty sure historically there have been plenty of attempts to stamp out French culture and language. Forcing Quebec to stay when they clearly want to leave seems to be more of an act of hate than an act that brings people together. So seriously, what's the big deal if they separate? Somebody spell it out for me because I really don't see what the big fuss is about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135639 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 I don't care for political or religious threads as they often lead to heated discussions. This is a particularly strong topic and I don't want to see it turn bad. I love my country (Just hate the tax system and often the politicians and think they need to be more careful how they spend our money) but cutting it in half to make Quebec it's own Nation... that to me is just insane! I was very glad to see the bloc go away. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 I agree with mod. Politics divide us and I don't wish the thread turn bad also. Just to say what I meant French and English Canadians fought alongside each other IN TWO WORLD WARS and are still fighting alongside each other in Afghanistan AS WE SPEAK. I will have no more comments as it is a hot topic I would like all of us to remain friends and united. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catfish101 171 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 agree with mod Posted via Mobile Device Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MightyPen 67414 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 We're stronger together than apart. We have more in common than is different, including the simple merit of shared history. If Quebec can separate from Canada, than vast swathes of native populations that make up a large part of the Quebec north can separate from them -- it's a slippery slope that gains nothing in the long run. Consider it like a marriage between Quebec and Canada: it's worth working stuff out if possible. (Although maybe this is the wrong board to put it that way! Then again, I don't mind of Quebec and France want to have their little fling on the side. But I fear Quebec would be the client in that relationship, and France the SP.) There are plenty of ways to accommodate Quebec's unique identity within Canada without resorting to splitting the nation up. And I say that as a guy who grew up in beautiful, seedy, and deliciously corrupt Montréal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 If Quebec were to seperate, it would only be because the majority of Quebecers vote to seperate in a provincial referendum. In each referendum, Quebecers have elected to remain a part of Canada, despite evidence in 1995 that the organizers of that referendum were breaking rules to try and ensure theeir victory. If they had won, that victory would have been tainted by the illegal behavour of the victors. The simple fact of the matter is, most Quebecois are content to remain in Canada. The recent federal election proved that with the rejection of the Bloc. There have been some nasty exchanges between French and English over the years but Quebec has been given extra leverage as well as provincial powers so political bias no longer exists. The fact of the mater is, if Quebec were to seperate we would have to negotiate what sort of relationship a soverign Quebec would have with the rest of Canada. And no matter how that relationship is defined, everyone in Canada would feel a distinct economic impact. And for the most part, it likely wouldn't be a very good one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted May 5, 2011 I am very attached to Canada, a great Nation with a great future. As for Quebec, I feel nothing, I see it as irrelevant. So long as Quebecers are under no illusions as to what independence means (no say over Canadian Fiscal/Monetary policy, no joint citizenship, compensation paid to us for Federal assets in Quebec, willingness to allow self determination for those populations and parts of Quebec that wish to remain with Canada, no representation in Parliament, etc etc) then I would accept a majority vote on independence. I think if the voters of Quebec faced a stark choice like that very few would opt for Independence. Its this fanciful vision of SA that keeps the movement alive. The ROC has little interest in SA. The recent election means Quebec is more isolated than ever. For the 1st time since Borden a Majority government was elected without significant representation from Quebec (btw SA the Conservatives won 48% of the popular vote outside of Quebec). Quebec has willingly devolved itself of influence. The future lies with the new Ontario/west coalition which also happens to be the engine of both economic and demographic growth. The Conservatives will soon reintroduce legislation to increase the number of MP's in Ontario by 18, and in BC/AB by 7 each, no increase is due for Quebec on account of population growth (or lack thereof). The days of "holding a knife to the throat of english Canada" are over. There is little (no) appetite in most of the ROC for this issue, people of Quebec can choose to continue to wallow in it if they want to but the Clarity Act remains, Layton's craven pandering notwithstanding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I can't let these comments go (or I wouldn't sleep tonight LOL). Likely indifference do more harm than good as far as separatism is concern. Any federal vote should also include Quebec votes in my view. The future lies with a Canada as Quebecers already demonstrated more than once that they wish to remain Canadians. I apologize for my earlier emotional comments in this post. Edited May 7, 2011 by S*****t Ad*****r Earlier comments were out of emotions and not appropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300291 Report post Posted May 5, 2011 I thought my one post was it, but after saying things like "As for Quebec, I feel nothing, I see it as irrelevant" I too won't sleep unless I post LOL. What if another province (or provinces) said they wanted to seperate. If one province becomes irrelevant, then don't all provinces become just as "irrelevant"? And really, how can a province be irrelevant? And it's a domino effect that can lead to the balkanization of what once was Canada Now I can go to sleep RG 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark101 214 Report post Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) you now I won't make friends for this but here goes...... Laws post 1976 by government of Quebec are against "free speech" laws in most developed County's. Example's having to speak french to work in a company over so many people, French only signs or certain size of lettering, not being able to sent your kids to the school of your choice, I could go on and on, this is not only against free speech but down right dictatorial. I was born in Quebec and had a French Grandfather also lived in Alberta for 18 years........I say if Quebec wants to go?????? BYE BYE Quebec. If Quebec believes it was the only province that built this GREAT COUNTRY of Canada the are sadly mistaken. I think the rest of Canada especially the west are tired of bending over backwards to satisfy Quebec. French is very prominent in eastern Ontario end New Brunswick, the french have there own School Boards, News Papers etc.... So why doesn't Quebec get along with the rest of Canada? I love this county called Canada and so do most of my French relatives on both sides of the Ottawa river. It's time to put separation to rest or do it. God forbid LOL if Quebec votes to separate, lets hope it can be done Peacefully. Edited May 6, 2011 by mark101 spealling never could lol also removed a historial fact that some might find offensive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest tr*****e Report post Posted May 6, 2011 Quebec is not irrelevant!!!! Quebec is a part of Canada because it was part of British North America. All the jurisdictions within Canada are relevant, just some more to different people. I live in a small town on the prairies, but the only reason I do is because it's cheap. I personally dislike the prairies, or any place that's this flat, for that matter. But I don't push that because it's my opinion and no one else's. I love Quebec. I don't want to see it go. Is there anyone who has a picture of Canada in their mind that does not include Quebec? Excluding small-minded hate- and fear-mongers, that is. Really, the overwhelmingly French part of our nation is a wonderful place, but if they have a majority of Habitants voting to leave Canada, fine. It's a free country, and we should respect that no matter what. Personally, though I'd rather it stay. Far better to have a country where we are all Canadiens/Canadiennes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yow_top 180 Report post Posted May 6, 2011 Lou, I applaud you for wishing to appreciate and understand peoples perspectives on Canada. First of all... my vision of Canada includes Quebec amongst all of the provinces and territories! I was born in Alberta, have lived as an adult in Quebec, Ontario, and Saskatchewan.... and see myself retiring in Quebec in the distant future. I appreciate all of Canada and all it had to offer. I would hate to see Quebec separate. I believe that Quebec is an integral part of Canada , but I am a pragmatic individual. We all paid $8 Billion to Quebec in 2010-2011 in equalization payments. Quebec has not been a "have province". One would presume that as a sovereign nation, Quebec would not suddenly be able to sustain themselves...not even taking into account the "start up cost". While I don't want to see Quebec go, I really think Canada (including Quebec) has wasted enough time, effort, and money on the "Quebec" debate. It's time for the Canadians of Quebec to decide once and for all; either leave, or stay with the rest of Canadians and focus on building a strong Canada. In the words of Yoda..."Do or Do not..." Cheers, D 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted May 6, 2011 The separtist movement will probably always exist. Currently, it exists on the fringe. The majority of Quebecers prefer to remain in Canada, that much is evident from the recent election where they pushed the Bloc to the brink of destruction. Quebec will always want a strong voice in Parliament, mind you (which they have now in the NDP), and the threat of seperatism may rear its ugly head in the future as leverage, but that's all it would be. For all the talk within some circles of "oppression" of Quebec, there has never been an armed uprising, including the days following the English victory in 1763, when it was most likely to succeed. Outside of the actions of a few criminals in the 1970's (which disgusted virtually all Quebecers as well), the population of Quebec has remained more than happy enough to call Canada home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300291 Report post Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Lou, I applaud you for wishing to appreciate and understand peoples perspectives on Canada. First of all... my vision of Canada includes Quebec amongst all of the provinces and territories! I was born in Alberta, have lived as an adult in Quebec, Ontario, and Saskatchewan.... and see myself retiring in Quebec in the distant future. I appreciate all of Canada and all it had to offer. I would hate to see Quebec separate. I believe that Quebec is an integral part of Canada , but I am a pragmatic individual. We all paid $8 Billion to Quebec in 2010-2011 in equalization payments. Quebec has not been a "have province". One would presume that as a sovereign nation, Quebec would not suddenly be able to sustain themselves...not even taking into account the "start up cost". While I don't want to see Quebec go, I really think Canada (including Quebec) has wasted enough time, effort, and money on the "Quebec" debate. It's time for the Canadians of Quebec to decide once and for all; either leave, or stay with the rest of Canadians and focus on building a strong Canada. In the words of Yoda..."Do or Do not..." Cheers, D Personally, in my opinion, the people of Quebec have chosen to stay in Canada, look at referendum results, and with the recent election, overwhelming support for a federalist party, not a nationalist/separatist party. There is likely a small element of the Quebec population that wants a independent Quebec. There are a few more that don't want independence, they want sovereignty association. And finally there is what I think is the majority that want to be part of Canada. I think the independence/sovereignty association movement was a card played by Quebec to maximize benefits to Quebec without them actually separating I wonder what would really have happened if Quebec threatened independence, Canada turned around and instead of fighting to keep Quebec in Confederation, said your free to leave. My guess, they wouldn't have left. It's a opinion which I have no facts or research to back up Bottom line, I'm glad Quebec is a part of Canada, we are richer with Quebec (as with all provinces and territories) than without RG Edited May 6, 2011 by r__m__g_uy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
