Responsibility

[MightyPen 67414]

There's of course no one blanket answer to the whole problem of people dependent upon assistance. Let's at least start by recognizing that there are many groups here:

 

a) Yeah sure, those who are dependent on social assistance and wouldn't change even if they could. These are the folks that people talk about 'til their head bursts and who give the system a bad name. Then again -- capitalism, baby! Make the minimum investment for maximum possible return and screw everyone else and any sense of a larger duty to the society around you. Aren't these people doing exactly what our greed-based economy teaches them to do, and what we reward corporations for doing all the time?

 

b) A set of people who are dependent and would like to escape, but don't know how and have no examples to follow; also, those who don't have the personal, internal intellectual or emotional resources to change. We need programs to reach out to these people and offer a path to better themselves. I personally think this accounts for a very large segment indeed. We who function in society forget how intimidating it is, and how insurmountable its minimum demands can seem when they've been outside your reach your entire life.

 

c) The set of people who are capable of change, but whose circumstances prevent it. As an example: divorced single parents now struggling to care for kids they had in better times, and for whom jobs are unmanageable because they would cost more than they would bring in (daycare costs, transportation, a long series of things impossible to manage when you're isolated).

 

There are people who manage to rise out of these circumstances despite the difficulties, and that's awesome. My own family worked hard to overcome humble beginnings. But let's not be too quick to judge those who are still struggling with the challenge.

 

And when we're tempted to ask "gawd, how can they continue to live such tragic and unfulfilled lives?", maybe we should also ask: how do some people linger so long in sexless or loveless marriages? Financial self-neglect; emotional self-neglect. See, sometimes change is too terrifying, or the expected financial or social cost of change just seems too high. People get paralyzed in bad circumstances all the time. I try not to judge either case. As black and white as it looks from the outside, we just don't know all the circumstances.

 

Who'll cast the first stone?

[CristyCurves 169032]

This thread was a very interesting read. I don't have an opinion one way or the other because I have never received social assistance nor really know anyone who has. I do have thoughts on the issue but will keep them to myself. Keep up the great debate tho!

 

But if you would like and it would be appreciated, could speak on the other topics in my post, recycling, pets, kids. No one except Cat has touched on these topics. If not thats fine to ,thank you for your input:icon_biggrin:

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Sure...

 

Recycling is not only good for the environment but it is economical both personally and for your municipality and oh so easy to do.

 

As for pets...if you can't afford to treat them as well as you treat yourself then you shouldn't have one.

 

As for kids, unless you are financially and mentally stable enough to commit for a life time then buy a doll.

 

Yeah, in a mood lol.

[Guest s******ecan****]

I will clarify re myth

 

It is a myth that fraud and abuse are widespread

 

Are there some who game the system...of course, there are plenty of wealthy who game the tax system, average people who pay under the table for goods and services, people who don't declare everything they bought when out of the country, drivers who speed, executives who use company equipment/supplies for personal use, people who hide income,......I could go on

 

The fact is most people are law abiding, including the majority of those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves requiring government assistance

 

of course its always easier to pick on those with no advocates

[CristyCurves 169032]

I will clarify re myth

 

It is a myth that fraud and abuse are widespread

 

Are there some who game the system...of course, there are plenty of wealthy who game the tax system, average people who pay under the table for goods and services, people who don't declare everything they bought when out of the country, drivers who speed, executives who use company equipment/supplies for personal use, people who hide income,......I could go on

 

The fact is most people are law abiding, including the majority of those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves requiring government assistance

 

of course its always easier to pick on those with no advocates

 

Realistically none of us know the statistics concerning the amount of abuse or abusers. At least no one has come forward with that info yet. So to say it's a myth or that it isn't widespread,wouldn't that be a blanket statement?Surmising? and inaccurate.I have said that it happens, how much, I'm not sure, never said I knew but even a little is to much, ask somone who is affected by it. Those who work in social services, the police force, fire department, ect. they all take even a little abuse quite seriously and would never say well others here and others there are doing it as well. To justify one wrong by saying others are doing wrongs doesn't negate it's offence or affects on others. Scott, I appreciate your opinion but those that abuse systems shouldn't have advocates nor am I picking on anyone. On a last note if people are committing the above offenses you mention how could they then be lawabiding?

[fredsmith 5240]

Sure...

 

Recycling is not only good for the environment but it is economical both personally and for your municipality and oh so easy to do.

 

As for pets...if you can't afford to treat them as well as you treat yourself then you shouldn't have one.

 

As for kids, unless you are financially and mentally stable enough to commit for a life time then buy a doll.

 

 

Come'on Meg, you make a sensible, well thought out, non controversial statement.

 

This is no way to start an argument. :)

[Guest s******ecan****]

These systems were set up for those who through no fault of their own fall on dire straights/hard times and need a temporary helping hand until they get back on their feet. I mean why as a taxpayer should I pay to heat someones home, pay their rent, feed their children when they are as capable and have as many opportunities as I?

 

 

So which is it? Are the systems set up to help those who fall or are they as capable as you with the same opportunities?

 

You seem to be saying both in this paragraph.

 

Why should I as a taxpayer pay to have you road fixed? Why should I pay to have your medical costs covered? Your home protected by police etc. Aren't these your problems?

[roamingguy 300292]

 

Why should I as a taxpayer pay to have you road fixed? Why should I pay to have your medical costs covered? Your home protected by police etc. Aren't these your problems?

 

We all collectively pay through taxes to have roads fixed, medical care covered and our homes protected by police etc. They aren't just your problems, or my problems, they are problems everyone could have

RG

[Guest s******ecan****]

We all collectively pay through taxes to have roads fixed, medical care covered and our homes protected by police etc. They aren't just your problems, or my problems, they are problems everyone could have

RG

 

 

Thats my point...to the OP who rhetoricaly asked why some her taxes go to support the less fortunate

[cat 262460]

When my children were small and I had custody of 6 children under the age of 8, my husband and I made a combined income of $21 600 annually. I don't know if we qualified for welfare as it never occured to me to ask for it. Fast forward a decade and I was deported to Canada with nothing but a box of books, a track suit with runners, $23 and toothbrush. I lived on the street for about 2 months then got my car from the US and lived in it for 6 months. This time I considered asking for help but decided against it. I did what I had to do to put a roof over my head and move on. During my 8 months I met a variety of people that to this day I am in awe of.

 

Before I had my car, the kids on the streets of Ottawa watched my back. They gave me a coat, fed me at times and sometimes offered me sanctuary with them at night when I had no where else to go. This was where I learned about homeless dogs. Once I had my car, I had somewhere to sleep but often had to choose between gas and food. People with almost nothing shared what they had with me. I hung out in the St.Laurent/Donald St area and I was welcomed to eat with people who obviously were on assistance by what they put on the table. I made friends and I was amazed at their willingness to help me when they had so little. I still keep in touch with some of these people, the ones who have hung on to my phone number and they know if they ever need me, I'm there.

 

Are there people who milk the system? Perhaps but I will not stand in judgment as I know looks are deceiving. People meet me all the time and assume I am well set. Little do they know that the label clothing is all from thrift stores and my entire apartment was furnished with used everything. I have times when I struggle to cover the basics and the rest of the time, I make ends meet. My life isn't easy even tho many people think so. Until I have the power to walk in someone elses shoes, I will not be so grand as to think I know or understand their struggles and I will not assume someone is a parasite until I have complete information to make that kind of decision.

 

It's easy to sit in front of our computers and discuss with distain those that need the safety nets we as a country have chosen to provide. It's harder to try to understand or even show trace empathy for those need help. No system is perfect but I'm glad we have what we do...

 

cat

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Come'on Meg, you make a sensible, well thought out, non controversial statement.

 

This is no way to start an argument. :)

 

Peace not war bro!

[mrgreen760 37785]

Frankly I support the concept of a guaranteed annual income. Every person starting at age 16 receives x amount of money on January 1 of the each year. Not a pittance but not a bazillion dollars either, each year a calculation would be made to set that number. Enough to live on but that would be all, no EI, or welfare, no other assistance of any kind. There would be no tax exemptions but there would be no income tax on this amount and no means test to qualify. Those who chose to earn more would not be penalized and would still receive the guarantee.

 

By eliminating all the government departments, agencies and NGO's that oversee the current social programming municipally, provincially and federally I'm pretty sure I would have plenty of dough to pay for it.....and more.

 

Seems simple to me.....but then again maybe it's me who's simple :)

 

Peace

MG

[piano8950 32577]

Thanks for sharing Cat. It was informative to read your experience

 

I was deported to Canada with nothing but a box of books, a track suit with runners, $23 and toothbrush. I lived on the street for about 2 months then got my car from the US and lived in it for 6 months. This time I considered asking for help but decided against it.

 

If you don't mind me asking:

 

Why did you decide against asking for help?

 

Would you have asked for government assistance if you knew it would take 8 months to get off the street?

 

---

 

It's interesting to read your story and contrast it to my dad. He was a refugee of war. Homeless and with a bag of a few things, he sold everything except the clothes he wore. He was responsible for two of his sisters and baby brother, and worked bizarrely odd jobs to get them into this "house". This was a third world country, so social services were non-existent, but he did sometimes eat in mosques and churches when there was food. He got his break when he became a tea-boy (chai-wala) for a cement factory, where the plant manager admired his work ethics. After three years working there, and doing every job he could find to possibly rise up the ranks, the manager recommended he apply for a job in another country; another very entry level position, but she thought it would be the best thing for his life.

 

He rose through the ranks of this conglomerate (can't say what it is for privacy) and almost reached the very top before he retired well before 65. I was born when things started to turn around for my parents, so I never knew that life.

 

But while I usually take a softer approach to welfare and social assistance, my dad is much more 'conservative' (if that is the right word). His reason is the experience that defined his career (if he could do it, why can no one else). He considers himself of average intelligence, with no particular talent that sets him apart. But he throws everything he has on whatever task he sets his mind to. To him, absolute sacrifice, humility, and hard work is required before help is given in situations of poverty. Anything less shows a lack of dedication to see it through.

 

I'm not advocating that his position on the matter is correct, or challenging the basis of anyone's values. It's just been enlightening to see people come from poverty to have wildly different views on the subject.

[Moviefan 1238]

We live in a society that has become complacent with the status-quo, Where we allow our elected official to increase their salaries, while decreasing social programs, public health care, the list goes on.

 

Ask yourself this when was the last time a politician took a pay cut?

 

http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/federal-politician-salaries-higher-than-you-think.htm

 

Now take an average family income is about roughly 1/3 that of what a politician can earn in one year. If that isn't a slap in the face if you are lucky enough to have a job with a pension plan you have to work 20 plus years to actually build your pension to the point where retirement maybe be an option, where your political representative only has to put in six years of office and he will collect from 25,000 a year and up, upon turning 55.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/06/18/median-family-income-statscan.html

 

Now this does not excuse those who are abusing the system but lets be realistic who are the real thieves here?

 

Why stop there we as a capitalistic society we waste more then enough food, resources, to feed, house and clothes most if not all third world countries. but we don't and that after taking care of those within our borders. Why? Because there is no profit in it.

 

I can go on for hours if not more about the injustices of the world but what will that do?

 

As a society we need to start asking real questions of our leaders and not settling for the status-quo anymore.

[CristyCurves 169032]

Thats my point...to the OP who rhetoricaly asked why some her taxes go to support the less fortunate

 

No actually I didn't rhetorically ask. I said they( meaning those who take advantage of the systems).The statement wasn't as you seemed to want to portray it. The statement was and I'll explain it just for you-why should I have to pay for those( those being people who have the same opportunities and abilities as I-meaning if they WANTED to -but instead choose not to work or get an education-instead they CHOOSE to milk the systems-) why should my tax dollars pay for THEM/THEY/THOSE. If you want to support them-fine, thats your business. These people aren't the less fortunate they are THOSE who have learned to play the systems-WHO ARE STEALING and have no problem doing so. They aren't less fortunate just less honest! The comparison you've made is nonsensical. As RG said we all pay taxes to have roads fixed, doctors paid, schools built,ect,ect.Thats part of our system.

This thread isn't about who is right and wrong so please don't turn it into that. I posed a question concerning -SOME-as I said before neither you or I know exactly how many abuse or take advantage of the systems. Yet it seems to be only myself(between you and I) who is willing to admit I don't know the numbers. You seem to be stuck on insisting that I'm wrong-period-. But that is your opinion and I thank you again for it:icon_biggrin:

[cat 262460]

Thanks for sharing Cat. It was informative to read your experience

 

If you don't mind me asking:

 

Why did you decide against asking for help?

 

Would you have asked for government assistance if you knew it would take 8 months to get off the street?

 

 

I don't mind you asking...

 

I didn't ask because I couldn't ask. I was deported without identification thus a non entity. I wasn't walking into any government office in the event they took me back into custody because I couldn't prove who I was. Many of the issues I had in the US were fabricated so I wasn't going to take any chances here. I didn't have an address to have my birth certificate mailed to so it took close to a year before I was legitimized. I drove my car without a drivers license, thank goodness I was never stopped.

 

Today I realize I would not have asked for help because I was traumatized when I returned. I was afraid of all forms of government and I have always struggled with asking for help from anyone. Not that I have ever trusted government but after a 4 year tussle with the US Feds, I still have physical reactions when I have to deal with any gov't official. 8 months on the streets isn't very long and it was a delicious form of freedom after what I had been thru. I'll take cold and hungry on the street over cold and hungry in a 4 by 8 any day...

 

cat

[CristyCurves 169032]

When my children were small and I had custody of 6 children under the age of 8, my husband and I made a combined income of $21 600 annually. I don't know if we qualified for welfare as it never occured to me to ask for it. Fast forward a decade and I was deported to Canada with nothing but a box of books, a track suit with runners, $23 and toothbrush. I lived on the street for about 2 months then got my car from the US and lived in it for 6 months. This time I considered asking for help but decided against it. I did what I had to do to put a roof over my head and move on. During my 8 months I met a variety of people that to this day I am in awe of.

 

 

Before I had my car, the kids on the streets of Ottawa watched my back. They gave me a coat, fed me at times and sometimes offered me sanctuary with them at night when I had no where else to go. This was where I learned about homeless dogs. Once I had my car, I had somewhere to sleep but often had to choose between gas and food. People with almost nothing shared what they had with me. I hung out in the St.Laurent/Donald St area and I was welcomed to eat with people who obviously were on assistance by what they put on the table. I made friends and I was amazed at their willingness to help me when they had so little. I still keep in touch with some of these people, the ones who have hung on to my phone number and they know if they ever need me, I'm there.

 

Are there people who milk the system? Perhaps but I will not stand in judgment as I know looks are deceiving. People meet me all the time and assume I am well set. Little do they know that the label clothing is all from thrift stores and my entire apartment was furnished with used everything. I have times when I struggle to cover the basics and the rest of the time, I make ends meet. My life isn't easy even tho many people think so. Until I have the power to walk in someone elses shoes, I will not be so grand as to think I know or understand their struggles and I will not assume someone is a parasite until I have complete information to make that kind of decision.

 

It's easy to sit in front of our computers and discuss with distain those that need the safety nets we as a country have chosen to provide. It's harder to try to understand or even show trace empathy for those need help. No system is perfect but I'm glad we have what we do...

 

cat

 

Thank you Cat. You are obviously a very insightful, intelligent, kind and experienced woman, I thank you for sharing and honor your struggle. You spoke-eloquently, I might add, about those you've met, had dealings with, ect. As am I.

However I don't find easy to sit behind my computer to discuss such topics. Nor is it easy to understand but I do try. I have never judged a person by their appearence, never.As I know some of the good don't fall into typical molds. But I will never feel empathy for those who knowingly take advantage of those willing to bust their behinds doing the right thing.When I see abuses I call those who commit them abusers, why they do,not sure, that is energy I will not waste. Should I be more empathetic towards them, perhaps. But when they commit their offenses do you think they feel for my struggles? Do you think when they take that they stop and think well this may effect him or her-probably not. We are all flawed, but not all are honest or try to be, nor has all of those who take advantage struggled, or encountered strife, abuse ect. Some just like to take advantage and not accept responsibility. It is those who I spoke of. I too am glad we have what we do.

[cat 262460]

Thank you Cat. You are obviously a very insightful, intelligent, kind and experienced woman, I thank you for sharing and honor your struggle. You spoke-eloquently, I might add, about those you've met, had dealings with, ect. As am I.

However I don't find easy to sit behind my computer to discuss such topics. Nor is it easy to understand but I do try. I have never judged a person by their appearence, never.As I know some of the good don't fall into typical molds. But I will never feel empathy for those who knowingly take advantage of those willing to bust their behinds doing the right thing.When I see abuses I call those who commit them abusers, why they do,not sure, that is energy I will not waste. Should I be more empathetic towards them, perhaps. But when they commit their offenses do you think they feel for my struggles? Do you think when they take that they stop and think well this may effect him or her-probably not. We are all flawed, but we are not all honest, nor has all of those who take advantage struggled, or encountered strife, abuse ect. Some just like to take advantage and not accept responsibility. It is those who I spoke of.

 

Thank you for your kind words. If I read them thru my natural filter, they seem complimentary and genuine. If I choose to read them thru a jade hued filter where people are dishonest and untrustworthy, they would seem like smoke being blown up my ass which is a fetish I charge a substantial extra fee for. Those who know me will know which filter I truly use. That said...

 

I do not see how anyone can know what is in another's heart and mind therefore I cannot presume I'm in a position to judge them. Perhaps if it was a situation I had knowledge of all the details of the abuse, I may feel differently but having been painted several times in my life with a wide paintbrush I have learned that I didn't like it done to me, I won't do it someone else. You must personally harm me before I come out swinging, I won't take shots at people I don't know or assume I know the right thing for them to do. That's why we have legislation. It isn't perfect but it's better than the alternative. I have yet to meet a person breathing that hasn't encountered strife, abuse or difficulties. No life is without it on this planet...

 

cat

[VedaSloan 119179]

I will never judge someone on social assistance. So they are wearing a designer label. Maybe they got it at good will, maybe it was a gift. I have better things to do than worry about whether they --really-- deserve social assistance. When it comes to discussions like these, things are more complicated than X deserves it, Y does not.

[Guest s******ecan****]

I have to pay for those( those being people who have the same opportunities and abilities as I-meaning if they WANTED to -but instead choose not to work or get an education-instead they CHOOSE to milk the systems-) why should my tax dollars pay for THEM/THEY/THOSE.

 

 

..and my point is that it is a myth that there are very many people as you describe.

 

Logical fallacy - strawman argument

 

the other problem with this argument is that anyone who recv's anything from the government can always be accused by another taxpayer of "milking the system"

 

Should people who live healthy lifestyles pay taxes so that smokers can get free medical care? Should smokers pay taxes so that people that live healthy lifestyles but jog on the road (thereby increasing their likelyhood of being hit by a car or damaging their knees etc) can get free health care.

[mister_crufty 4891]

"If you compare yourself to others you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans."

 

- Max Ehrmann

[kerrixoxo 33719]

This is really contested subject because of complexities of it all. However, I don't believe that people choose to live on social assistance because in Ontario that is just not doable (you get around 350-400 for rent and the rest of the money which is around 200-300 for groceries, etc). A place (even just a room) for 250-400 does not exist, especially in London. Also, since most months average about 3-4 weeks and to have only 100/week to spend on groceries, public transportation, and other items one may need (medication, emergency money), 350-400 is just not enough to last for the month. Again, this amount mentioned is just for single people with no dependents and with no medical illnesses including addiction, mental health issues, which may or may not develop after experiencing these life changing situations and challenges. Also, once someone who is on social assistance is able to find a job, half of every dollar earned will be deducted while on social assistance (and that's if one finds a job.. remember employment rates, especially in London, have been rising or have made no change over the last year). So that means, one cannot even save money once on social assistance in order to get off of social assistance. In addition to the problem with unemployment rates, the actual amount received by those on social assistance is below the low income cut off rate (meaning, these people earn less than those who are considered to be on the lowest end of the poverty scale). Then on top of this, in order to qualify for social assistance, you cannot own a house, own a car, have no amount of money in savings, and have no credit, so this idea that these programs are there for individuals who just need "a bit of help" to get back on their feet is wrong--one does not receive social assistance unless they are literally below the lowest, as indicated earlier, on the lowest income cut off scale, and in dire need of assistance, are homeless or already experiencing homelessness. Then there are a bunch of other factors on who is able to access programs or who can qualify for other programs that are there to help individuals and families. Factors that are not always readily apparent.

 

To the OP: I appreciate your concern and rant. It can be frustrating to see this happening but I believe actually understanding the entire picture of social assistance and how it works, who can actually get it, and how does one get off of it (which is like never because I indicated earlier that one cannot even have credit, money in savings, or save money to help get off of social assistance) may help with understanding the greater issue.

 

I also can't see how or why some people would enjoy living on social assistance since it is about the demeaning thing in the world because it is a very intrusive system: having to show how poor your are, or how homeless you are. So I find it very hard to believe that some people "enjoy" living month to month on a one-time pay cheque. Yet, that is just my personal opinion.

 

And I commend Cat for sharing her courageous story! You, like many others here, are an amazing person, inside and out :)

 

Xo

 

 

Here is an interesting blog post on this subject http://blog.211ontario.ca/2011/07/understanding-homelessness-in-ontario/ and the fellow mentioned in this subject does a lot of great work for advocating for those experiencing homelessness or who are homeless in London :)

[CristyCurves 169032]

Thank you for your kind words. If I read them thru my natural filter, they seem complimentary and genuine. If I choose to read them thru a jade hued filter where people are dishonest and untrustworthy, they would seem like smoke being blown up my ass which is a fetish I charge a substantial extra fee for. Those who know me will know which filter I truly use. That said...

 

I do not see how anyone can know what is in another's heart and mind therefore I cannot presume I'm in a position to judge them. Perhaps if it was a situation I had knowledge of all the details of the abuse, I may feel differently but having been painted several times in my life with a wide paintbrush I have learned that I didn't like it done to me, I won't do it someone else. You must personally harm me before I come out swinging, I won't take shots at people I don't know or assume I know the right thing for them to do. That's why we have legislation. It isn't perfect but it's better than the alternative. I have yet to meet a person breathing that hasn't encountered strife, abuse or difficulties. No life is without it on this planet...

 

cat

 

A little unfair I think and yet you presume to know what is in my heart and mind and take a shot at me. You only want action towards those that personally harm you, well those that take advantage do harm you, me and everyone else.

Cat what would ever get changed if we all sat back and only took action when the fight was a personal one? I'm curious when it does becomes personal are still going to be empathetic towards that person . Are you going to want to know the persons history, story or are you going to want them to be accountable and responsible for their actions?

Lets say your father worked hard and it took him a large part of his life to buy a store, he does and runs it working in it daily. Some guy walks into that store and shoots your father, sadly your father dies. Are you going to want to know that guys story are you going to feel bad for him because hes had a tough road or are you going to want him to be accountable and responsible for his actions.

Yes I've taken it to another extreme but still my point-if someone committs an offense where do you draw the line. You can't excuse eveyone just because they came from hardship or have issues. This isn't about judgement it's about getting people to be responsible. Welfare fraud and unemployment fraud is an offense . Those that commit it need to be held responsible for doing so.

 

So heres what I get from some that have responded. We need to be more understanding towards all people on social assitance and unemployment insurance, no one wants to be in that situation. We shouldn't judge those who are ripping off the systems because they've had it rough, fallen on hard times perhaps have had a bad childhood and deserve a break. That I need to be more understanding and emathetic towards them.

1.wanting people to be responsible and accountable has nothing to do with being judgemental or bitter.

2. some here profess to be understanding and empathetic but have no problem throwing me under the bus or taking a pot shot at me when I gave a genuinely kind compliment.

3. Some have said you can't know whats in someones heart or mind. Yet you presume to know what is going on in the minds of those who get welfare and unemployment.

4.I have found in threads such as these there is always someone wanting to be a hero and save the hard done for. But when the harddone slap them hard the hero is not so understanding.

5.I will never speak for all, never. Howcould I so I won't presume to know all. I will say I don't belive all have had hardships, strife or abuses. I belive some go through life with little trouble. This has something to do with being responsible for your actions. Educating yourself, following rules and laws and being responsible.

6.everywhere there are rules, laws and lines we have to follow and not cross. When you do cross them or break them you have to be accountable and responsible. If you want to separate the offenders becase of their circumstances and backgrounds, thats your business, you'll be very busy. I just want people to be more responsible thats my business.

I am truly thankful and appreciative of those who invested their time in this thread. I stayed away from cattiness, snideness and being condescending. I wish some of you did.

[mister_crufty 4891]

So heres what I get from some that have responded. We need to be more understanding towards all people on social assitance and unemployment insurance, no one wants to be in that situation. We shouldn't judge those who are ripping off the systems because they've had it rough, fallen on hard times perhaps have had a bad childhood and deserve a break. That I need to be more understanding and emathetic towards them.

 

Hi Cristy. I don't think that any of us are advocating what you say. I'm all for tightening up the system to weed out cheaters and slackers. We're just saying that it's easy to get a disproportionate impression of the ratio of cheaters to legitimately needy. I feel that most of the needy who are benefiting from a helping hand are not seen or noticed and I still believe the cheaters are a minority.

 

If you read the news too much you can start to think that all men are pedophiles and rapists, all cops are crooked, all dentists grope their patients, and so on.

 

I think that what we're mostly trying to say is that for us, who are clever and resourceful and driven and educated, it would be much easier to improve our situation than for some of those who come from worse backgrounds. As has been said by others, social assistance can be a bit of a black hole that can suck people in and be hard to escape.

 

Please don't feel that we're attacking you. I understand and support your viewpoint and am only trying to temper it with some alternative ways to think about it.

[Guest]

I really didn't want to get into this but there are so many other factors out there to why some people may need or are deserving of social assistance and none of them are because they are lazy or do not want to work.

 

Forty percent of our Canadian workers are seasonal workers. Seasonal workers are the back bone of our country, they are minors, they laborers and much more. There are an alarming amount of these seasonal workers who grew up in poverty and do not have the skills to get jobs outside of their trade. Shall we condemn these people or should we provide these people with a helping hand in education to help themselves. I truly do not think these seasonal workers are lazy. I believe that some of them are victim to their circumstances. Do you know that most of these workers are from the Atlantic regions?

 

Do you know that people have to basically beg for the money they paid the government as a security blanket, known as unemployment insurance. You have to wait two weeks to get your insurance, plus you have to prove you are looking for a job to get this. This is not welfare, this is money people have paid the government so they could have a piece of mind if the worst thing happens to them, they loose their job. Then the government wants to claw this back by five weeks so that they can give pay breaks for businesses and large corporations. This is truly not fair in my opinion. In my opinion people who are seasonal workers and people who lost their jobs are victim to their circumstances and not lazy. If people are not able to get their unemployment insurance they have no choice but to go on welfare.

 

What about single parent families. Who do work and need that extra money for day care, shelter, cloths or food.

 

There is far more honest people in the system than dishonest people. I forget the numbers they said during the debate about the c-38 bill the other day. However, I would not like to see honest people suffer because of a small group of people who like to take advantage, these are the people that should go without and who should suffer.

 

I agree with Kerrixoxo the social system is complicated and we should really inform ourselves about what is going on in our country. Thanks for sharing that website Kerri and thanks to the people who shared their stories.