Equality for Women

[PistolPete 61421]

On Twitter there was a little chatter about how some men ruin things for women that work hard to get ahead in today's world and advancement for women are held back simply because of the male/female ego crap.

 

I know quite a few women in today's business that have done extremely well for themselves in their own business, and I mean on their own (no partnership).

 

The other night I was invited out for dinner with a lady who is very successful and she requested only once, to pick up the tab for dinner, and I said sure, as I really like a ambitious lady that has done well for herself and I think of her as a equal in today's world (men Vs women) which is all about equality. She said thanks and that she gets that crap where guys would say...no..no let me get it.

 

Women that work in some trades, such as construction,automotive repair,high tech,military or they own their own business, or work within companies,or work within the government.

 

I'm not talking about Service Providers, is this general discussion, I'm talking about in our real lives women that you know that have busted their ass to get where they are today.

 

So lets be honest when replying to this thread,

 

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

 

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

5- Or ladies, that are here do you know a lot very successful women in business, or successful within a company?

 

I'm all for equality, equal pay for equal work, and I'm so pleased to know some very successful business women that I can associate with in my every day dealings in my business.

 

In actual fact it really turns me on knowing these successful women that I know through association, and I can say that I'm very very pleased for them getting where they deserve in today's world.

 

I'm sure on the other hand we know some many ladies that have been overlooked because of the gender attitude.

 

Do you feel that in 2013 things are the same, or getting better???

[Guest realnicehat]

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

Not at all. I wish there were more women in my line of work.

 

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

Absolutely. I have a simple rule, whomever extends the invitation should pay.

 

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

Quite a few, yes.

 

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

Basically self employed so no.

 

 

Do I think things are better or the same?

 

It is hard for me to say. I don't work in a corporate world where I could witness the advancement of men vs women in the same position. What I have been noticing in the clients I work for is:

 

- an increase in the number of stay at home dads as the lady of the household is the primary bread winner.

 

- an increasing number of single women purchasing rather large homes.

 

Sadly, I do still notice a lot of men in my trade having trouble taking instruction from women.

[nntsci 11075]

I personally have no problem with having the cheque paid by a woman if she wants to do it. I've had a couple of female bosses who would do that. But more typically when I go to dinner as a business meeting the cheque is shared and the idea of one person or other paying it rarely comes up. If it did come up I would need to be sure that accepting a free dinner wasn't a conflict of interest (regardless of the sex of the person).

 

There are many women who work as equals in my field (medical/academic research) and they are as successful as men. etc.. I have no problem working with woman as equals; its just simply not an issue. However it is somewhat amusing to me that women in my field stereotype themselves by preferring counselling and applied research rather than more basic research, or if they do work in research they prefer qualitative data, rather than quantitative data. But I will add than many of the women I know in my field are very good at what they do.

 

PS. my wife often pays the restaurant bill... since it goes to the same credit card, I suppose that doesn't count... LOL.

[loopie 15358]

I have no problem working with women, for women, or competing against them.

[Guest B**na***oy]

No problem whatsoever.

[piano8950 32577]

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

 

Nope, not at all. I've never thought of it

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

I'd be fine with that

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

Yup

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

Not even the slightest

[rick 110]

1- if you're a gentleman ... as well as you can?

I am not bother with it at all.

 

2- Would ...to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

Yes .

 

3- Do you know ...business women?

 

Yes, but only a few

 

4- Does a ...scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

No I feel secure in my job and if a women advances all the power to her.

 

 

Do I think things are better or the same?

 

I run into more women now that before in my business, but it can be improved for sure.

[IamaGeek 3664]

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

 

Not at all - I personally know a number of people (both male and female) who can or could do my job as well as I can.

Sadly, the physical sciences and engineering do not have equal representation from both genders. I have tried to help this situation by working with WISEST:

 

http://www.wisest.ualberta.ca/

 

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

Of course. I have done so.

 

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

Depends on how you define "a lot". I certainly know some both in my field and in others.

 

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

Of course not. I believe in a meritocracy and in my ability.

 

Do you feel that in 2013 things are the same, or getting better???

 

I am disappointed in the poor connotation that the word "feminist" seems to have acquired but I believe that the past couple of decades have shown some small advancement.

[Frank7 3939]

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

 

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

5- Or ladies, that are here do you know a lot very successful women in business, or successful within a company?

 

1- Doesn't bother me a bit.

2- Sure. It would be great if a girl was doing everything that's expected of men. (paying, doing the first steps, being the boss)

3-Not sure to what point. Most of the people I know have crappy jobs or good jobs, but very rare are the extremely successful rich people.

4- A little bit scared, but not more then i'd be of a successful man. It's the successful part that makes competition, not the gender.

[goldandrocks 673]

Pistol Pete...strong thread man.

 

Its kind of amusing when you think about it. We are on this site which by its very nature could be construed as "sexist" yet every reply applauds equality, of which I assume expands to not just to sexism but racism etc.

 

But would only clarify that our SP's/MA's are also professionals (not worries dude, we all know what you are saying...). Strong, successful and taking home more money than most of us. So if any of you want to pick up the check...I will totally respect your offer :-)

 

I think being a hobbiest balances us in a certain way. We can look at our work mates with a "clear" head, we can value/respect/appreciate the performance/professionalism/dedication/intelligence of our peers/superiors without the burden of archaic stigma.

 

Reference the questions, no issues and actually enjoy seeing everyone succeed. Although I must admit my first instinct (whether a business meeting w/food, date, or casual drinks after a hard days night I tend to reach for the check if its with women....conditioned at birth I guess) although Its instinct not insistence.

 

Again strong thread.

[Surf_Nazis_Must_Die 8958]

1- if you're a gentleman does it bother you that knowing a lady can do your job just as well as you can?

 

Nope.

Hobbies are okay too. For example, Ladies in bands = Awesome and more than a little hot!

 

2- Would you allow her to pick up your tab for dinner?

 

If she wanted to, sure. As long as I can grab it next time

 

3- Do you know a lot of successful business women?

 

Not necessarily business people. But I've known a fair amount of women who are both damn good at what they do and have gone far with it. My mother comes to mind :)

 

4- Does a successful business woman scare you about your job security or she may advance more quickly then you?

 

Nope. Hard work should be rewarded. If she worked harder, she earned it

 

 

I've worked under both men and women in the workplace. I could give a rat's ass about what they were packin' under their clothing, as long as they treat me fairly and pull their weight

[MightyPen 67414]

Huh... I'm sure your heart's in the right place Pete, but I gotta say the thread gives me a bit of weird vibe. If you read your post again but put "black person" in place of "lady" or "woman" you'll probably see what I mean. ("Let's answer a poll honestly: would you let a black person pick up the tab?" "I'm so glad for them when they do well!"). The question automatically has some patronizing built right into it, and the fact that we can ask the question without it seeming weird tells you all by itself that we have a long way to go.

 

I work in a profession with an almost-equal mix of men and women. I get along well with everyone, because I just treat all my male and female colleagues as fellow professionals while we're doing anything involving work, wherever and whenever that may be. I can promise you that all the women I work with would much prefer that, rather than being "turned on" by being around a successful woman, I just deal straight with them: do what I promise when I promise, and pay them or bill them on time. End of story.

 

For myself: I very seldom let anyone I deal with professionally pick up my tab unless I know we'll switch next time around. Gender doesn't enter into the equation. I'm not threatened by anyone at work who seems especially capable; I've known both men and women who knew how to do some things better than I did, and I respected their talents and always tried to learn from them.

 

I'm optimistic the situation in North America will be different in 50 years, and certain it will be in 100 years. Today women outnumber men in university, so within a generation qualified professional women will outnumber qualified men. Prejudices notwithstanding, I think the dam must finally break and simple talent and training will win women the high-level positions they've been largely denied by men and male networks 'til now. And our grandchildren will regard the honest questions you've raised here to be as bizarre and archaic as an equivalent racial poll seems today.

 

Finally, I'll echo goldandrocks and add that some of the SPs I've met are among the smartest and hardest-working people I've ever met, and much more balanced and successful than many I meet who identify as "business people".

[Guest ChantalSummers]

This is a brilliant thread, Pete. You're incredible for being thoughtful and sincere towards women. As a lady yes I do know quite a few very successful women with their own businesses. It's very inspiring. My boss for one has such a beautiful vision, wonderful outlook on clientele satisfaction, is amazingly organized, and so knowledgeable about the industry. My best friend also does an outstanding job with her nail salon.

[PistolPete 61421]

Weird vibe from my thread unless, you are coming to that conclusion on your own. But I like to say, I also know quite a few successful "black people" individuals as well, but right now I know more women that are successful in my daily dealings. You are correct in stating that we have a long way to go, regardless of gender,colour, or race but as society,employment is changing I see more women successful today than I did 30 years ago.

 

I think things are changing for the better with equality.... gender,race,colour....it will be matter of time in years to come where our grandchildren will not look at this AS bizarre, but how things over history have changed for the better.

 

 

 

 

Huh... I'm sure your heart's in the right place Pete, but I gotta say the thread gives me a bit of weird vibe. If you read your post again but put "black person" in place of "lady" or "woman" you'll probably see what I mean. ("Let's answer a poll honestly: would you let a black person pick up the tab?" "I'm so glad for them when they do well!"). The question automatically has some patronizing built right into it, and the fact that we can ask the question without it seeming weird tells you all by itself that we have a long way to go.

 

I work in a profession with an almost-equal mix of men and women. I get along well with everyone, because I just treat all my male and female colleagues as fellow professionals while we're doing anything involving work, wherever and whenever that may be. I can promise you that all the women I work with would much prefer that, rather than being "turned on" by being around a successful woman, I just deal straight with them: do what I promise when I promise, and pay them or bill them on time. End of story.

 

For myself: I very seldom let anyone I deal with professionally pick up my tab unless I know we'll switch next time around. Gender doesn't enter into the equation. I'm not threatened by anyone at work who seems especially capable; I've known both men and women who knew how to do some things better than I did, and I respected their talents and always tried to learn from them.

 

I'm optimistic the situation in North America will be different in 50 years, and certain it will be in 100 years. Today women outnumber men in university, so within a generation qualified professional women will outnumber qualified men. Prejudices notwithstanding, I think the dam must finally break and simple talent and training will win women the high-level positions they've been largely denied by men and male networks 'til now. And our grandchildren will regard the honest questions you've raised here to be as bizarre and archaic as an equivalent racial poll seems today.

 

Finally, I'll echo goldandrocks and add that some of the SPs I've met are among the smartest and hardest-working people I've ever met, and much more balanced and successful than many I meet who identify as "business people".

[fortunateone 156618]

i think a number of thing have changed over a couple of decades. Primarily there is a point when the girls and young women didn't doubt they could choose a profession or pursue an interest. I am not sure exactly when that happened, but some of them you will also find refuse to identify with the feminist or women's activist groups that actually laid down the groundwork that led to them being able to not even doubt their own ability to pursue an interest.

 

 

I think there are a lot of women of a certain age who pursued non traditional work paths who found over and over they were passed over. Some older sps i know of got to certain points, then decided to 'be their own boss' so to speak. I am probably one of those.

 

I've had a few examples of applying for jobs, not getting them at the time, then getting them when the male who was given the position left or didn't last out the week.

 

I just watched an Undercover Boss, a company mostly in the Alberta oilfields. These have to be the places with the last of the 'men only need apply' types of jobs, and not unexpectedly there really are very few jobs held by women. The two that ended up on the show had both not been considered for promotions and attributed that to gender not experience or capacity. One had the added 'stigma' I guess, of being native. It was demoralizing and humiliating to her to not understand why she didn't get the promotion with few other legit options.

 

Non traditional jobs for women typically pay a heck of a lot better than the traditional ones do. I think we see more women in more positions than we did 30 years ago, but there is little that has changed fundamentally. We are still asking, "is this okay with you boys?" and still stopping in some way the recruitment and hiring and promotion of women in some workplaces, in ways that are both detrimental the company and that worker's moral.

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

All I know is that my dad always said I can be as good as or better than any man I know. My life choices will/are only limited by my own dreams and desires. If a fella sees me as "less" than him then he is not gonna spend any quality time with me :). Daddy raised a conceited girl and I will never apologize for my success and my ambition!

[mrgreen760 37785]

For awhile now I've thought women should run the world, I'm sure they'd do a much better job than men have. Men have run things since beginning of time and quite frankly I think men are exhausted. Change it up I say..... I for one happily step aside.

 

1.) Not in the least, I've seen lots of women in the Board room, very capable and quite a bit meaner too.

2.) Pick up the tab....sure

3.) I know several very successful women, business and other-wise

4.) I have no issue or problem competing with any one.

5.) I'd expect it's better but I'm not a woman.

 

Peace

MG

[MightyPen 67414]

There was no intent to create a weird vibe from my thread unless, you are coming to that conclusion on your own.

Yup, I didn't for a moment think the "weird" was intentional on your part. Maybe it's a good sign that these questions just struck me as already a bit dated, which I suppose is what I was getting at with "weird vibe". Anyone who has a problem in 2013 with anything you list (a woman paying for dinner, a woman who's successful and talented at work) has... issues.

 

I'm sure such guys are out there, but there will be steadily fewer of them as the years and decades pass.

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Yup, I didn't for a moment think the "weird" was intentional on your part. Maybe it's a good sign that these questions just struck me as already a bit dated, which I suppose is what I was getting at with "weird vibe". Anyone who has a problem in 2013 with anything you list (a woman paying for dinner, a woman who's successful and talented at work) has... issues.

 

I'm sure such guys are out there, but there will be steadily fewer of them as the years and decades pass.

 

Thanks MP. Unfortunately gender bias is still a very real issue but those who believe it are certainly stuck in the past.

[PistolPete 61421]

"Those who believe it are certainly stuck in the past"...and 30 years ago most of us had heads stuck in the sand, or shall up our ass, without any due consideration for equality.

 

The turnaround today is catching on, I just hope gender bias gets on board, because as Mr.Green stated "women do a much better job" because I've seen guys royally screw up over my time,and I mean that in all sincerity.

 

I'd step aside too, without hesitation.

 

 

Thanks MP. Unfortunately gender bias is still a very real issue but those who believe it are certainly stuck in the past.

[Guest M*****le*****c-H***s (Reti]

I'm not really sure what this thread is about. But men and women are far from equal, still, in our society. This is reflected in women's salaries, and smaller things like women being refused service at a barber's. There have been brave men who have done experiments, as they dress as a woman to experience what life is like as a woman. It's an eye-opener. Even Dustin Hofman recently talked about his role as "Tootsie" and how it made him very emotional as he realized how tough it is to be a woman in today's society. If you want to know what life is like as a woman, you'd have to ask a woman. Our wages are lower, our clothes and haircuts are more expensive, and when we go alone into a bar we are ignored or treated like a .. I can only guess the mindset of the male bartenders but it's like they suspect us of being out to grab a man for sex (as if that were a bad thing anyway; it's what men do, after all!) I'm afraid that women's lib has not served us well. I'm not griping, just saying plainly that we still do not have equality. Maybe we never will. And then there's the double standard where we are expected to look pretty and sexy, but get condemned for being pretty and sexy at the same time. ... sometimes I would like to masquerade as a man, if I could swing it, just to get some relief.