Massage spas and new Conservative prostitution laws

[whiteman 14028]

What are people's opinions about what the future of the massage industry is now that the Conservatives have introduced their new prostitution laws, and for the most part they seem to be targeting advertising. Specifically they are saying that individual providers may advertise, but someone else may not advertise on their behalf. So these spa websites which show pictures of their attendants, could this be now illegal? In the extreme case, I'd say even mentioning the names of their attendants without even having pictures could still be considered advertising on behalf of.

 

Website designers may not even be able to simply put up the websites they design for sex worker clients. They may have to come up with some ludicrous system whereby they have to get their clients to upload the website from their own computers.

 

Never minding the advertising issues, what about the issues surrounding massage spas acting as employers of sex workers, which now seems to be completely illegal?

[canuckhooker 19202]

1. Premature to speculate

2. No idea if spa services are considered "sexual services" under the new legislation.

3. Advertising can only be done by the individual offering the sexual service.

4. If they are sexual services then working for a spa will be illegal.

5. If it is a sexual service then it is illegal to be a customer.

6. Refer to point 1. Too early to tell.

[fortunateone 156618]

It is currently actually illegal for massage spas to advertise sexual services at all, let alone provide them in the illegal bawdy house arrangement or collect the fees for said services on behalf of the provider, etc etc.. Or 'procure' the services of sps/mps for clients in a 3rd party way. So in other words, who knows what the result of this bill, should it get passed at some future date.

[loneskater 25635]

... and for the most part they seem to be targeting advertising. Specifically they are saying that individual providers may advertise, but someone else may not advertise on their behalf...

 

From what I read, and from links explaining the changes in the other thread on the new bill, it is illegal for anyone to advertise sexual services, including individual providers. So beside the fact that Spas fall under the bawdy house law at the present, this new proposed advertising provision affects everyone. The question that remains is: What is considered a sexual service?

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

Here is a great breakdown from Pivot Legal: http://www.pivotlegal.org/the_new_se...tion_explained

 

This is a PROPOSED bill. It still needs to pass through several readings and stages before it can become law.

 

How does a bill become a law?

 

In order for a bill to become a law, it must go through a number of specific stages in both the Senate and the House of Commons. The process in each Chamber is similar.

House of Commons

 

Introduction and First Reading: The bill is introduced after notice is given; it is then assigned a number and printed.

Second Reading: The principle of the bill is debated and the bill is referred to a committee for more detailed study. (In the House of Commons, it is possible to refer a bill to committee prior to second reading pursuant to Standing Order 73.)

Committee Consideration: After a detailed analysis of the bill, often involving the hearing of witnesses, and a clause-by-clause study, the committee reports the bill back to the House of Commons.

Report Stage: The bill, as passed by the committee, is considered by the House and further amendments can be proposed and debated.

Third Reading: The bill, as adopted at the report stage, is debated a final time. Debate focuses on the final form of the bill.

Passage and Royal Assent: If the bill originated in the House of Commons and is passed at the third reading stage, it is sent to the Senate where it will follow the process described below. If the bill originated in the Senate and has been passed by both chambers in the same form, it is presented for Royal Assent.

 

Senate

 

Introduction and First Reading: The bill is introduced without notice, given a number and printed.

Second Reading: The principle of the bill is debated at second reading and, if it passes, the bill is almost always referred to a committee for more detailed study. (In the Senate, it is possible for a committee to study the subject matter of a bill introduced in the House of Commons prior to introduction in the Senate, pursuant to Rule 74 of the Rules of the Senate. This is referred to as pre-study. The Senate may also refer the subject matter of a bill to a committee before the bill has received second reading.)

Committee Stage: The committee studies the bill and reports it back to the Senate.

Report Stage: The Senate only considers a bill at report stage if the committee either recommends amendments or that the bill not be further studied. Committee reports on bills that do not propose amendments are deemed adopted by the Senate without a motion.

Third Reading: The bill, as amended by the Senate or not, is debated a third time. Debate focuses on the final form of the bill, although amendments to clauses of the bill can also be moved at this stage without the need to return it to committee.

Passage and Royal Assent: If the bill originated in the Senate and is passed, it is then sent to the House of Commons where it follows the process described above. If the bill originated in the House of Commons and has been passed by both chambers in the same form, it is presented for Royal Assent

 

 

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISinfo/Faq....E&Mode=1#ID0EQ

[ngtime 560]

If they ever come about will forever change the industry. The government will be looking for new revenue, HST and income tax collected by providers. Tips or donations will be scrutinized as this will be a new windfall for the government.

 

Maybe the present system is better.

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

If they ever come about will forever change the industry. The government will be looking for new revenue, HST and income tax collected by providers. Tips or donations will be scrutinized as this will be a new windfall for the government.

 

Maybe the present system is better.

 

Many of us already do pay income tax. This is not what these laws seek to do. The government clearly stated their intent was to end prostitution; it says so right in the bill itself.

[whiteman 14028]

From what I read, and from links explaining the changes in the other thread on the new bill, it is illegal for anyone to advertise sexual services, including individual providers. So beside the fact that Spas fall under the bawdy house law at the present, this new proposed advertising provision affects everyone. The question that remains is: What is considered a sexual service?

Actually no, the Conservatives say advertising in public places is illegal. So what is considered a public place? Billboards? Signs on the window of your establishment? Craig's List? Back Pages? They are publicly accessible websites, so are they public? Isn't every website publicly accessible? Isn't advertising in general publicly accessible? At least successful advertisement, that is.

[Dave - WebGuy 597]

What are people's opinions about what the future of the massage industry is now that the Conservatives have introduced their new prostitution laws, and for the most part they seem to be targeting advertising. Specifically they are saying that individual providers may advertise, but someone else may not advertise on their behalf. So these spa websites which show pictures of their attendants, could this be now illegal? In the extreme case, I'd say even mentioning the names of their attendants without even having pictures could still be considered advertising on behalf of.

 

Website designers may not even be able to simply put up the websites they design for sex worker clients. They may have to come up with some ludicrous system whereby they have to get their clients to upload the website from their own computers.

 

Never minding the advertising issues, what about the issues surrounding massage spas acting as employers of sex workers, which now seems to be completely illegal?

 

It will certainly change the manner in which business is conducted as far as websites and photography go.

 

Back in 1999 when I had my first dealings regarding the online ventures within this area, mainstream businesses that offered web site design, photography and marketing stayed as far away as possible so that they could not be linked to anyone involved.

 

I can see a return to this, maybe even more distant since it also creates a vague implication that online ventures involving adult material would also be under scrutiny.

 

The whole thing makes me think of a Howard Jones song "No one is to blame"

 

There's a lot of unknowns involved, everything seems intentionally vague so that there's a lot of latitude for interpretation.

[loneskater 25635]

Actually no, the Conservatives say advertising in public places is illegal. So what is considered a public place? Billboards? Signs on the window of your establishment? Craig's List? Back Pages? They are publicly accessible websites, so are they public? Isn't every website publicly accessible? Isn't advertising in general publicly accessible? At least successful advertisement, that is.

 

If you read the bill, in the part about no advertising it does mention internet. Here is the copy from the bill summary:

 

"© create an offence that prohibits the advertisement of sexual services of- fered for sale and to authorize the courts to order the seizure of materials containing such advertisements and their removal from the Internet;"

 

In addition, as Mentioned By Kathryn in her first post on this thread, Pivot Legal as broke down the amendments and here is their extract about advertising:

 

Provision 286.4: Advertising Sexual Services

The bill proposes to ban any advertising of sexual services, stating:

Everyone who knowingly advertises an offer to provide sexual services for consideration is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term on not more than 18 months.

 

I don't see anywhere the mention of public places. It is a total ban on advertising sexual services that is being proposed.

[whiteman 14028]

I don't see anywhere the mention of public places. It is a total ban on advertising sexual services that is being proposed.

McKay was mentioning it in relation to advertising in a place where children could go.