A Word We Should All Get Rid Of

[The General 11309]

This has been an interesting post. Words are words, they will be around forever, it is one of the ways that we communicate.

 

And the words themself are not the real issue. It is how we use them, the tone we use and the delivery of the use. The words are only a small part of the communication process.

 

So forget about the word or words, it is the malicious delivery, the context of the situation and evil intent of the use of them, that is really harmful. We can say the exact same words in the sentences, one can be acceptable, the other offensive.

[Old Dog 179138]

.... and the old phrase that we used to almost sing on the playground seems never more apt... "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."

 

Funny how smart we were as kids....

[Jazzitup 5652]

English would be poorer if we started eliminating the words we did not like. If we got rid of them, they would only be replaced by some other derogatory term and then this term would have tto be banned. We should keep all the words.

Besides, how many of us talk dirty during sex. The vulgarities can add a bit of spice to things.

[Lowdark 5613]

Perhaps there is some miscommunication, I'm not saying to ban this word, but as some have pointed out, this word is used most commonly as a mean and cruel term towards ladies in this business. And as others have pointed out, the true measure of a word is intent. There are plenty of words in the English language that I choose not to use, but would never support removing. My perspective is this; how would you react to someone who uses that word (or any other deragatory term) against a female friend? Or family member? What if someone called your daughter that? Would any father or mother be so forgiving? The women here on CERB should be admired and respected and many times that word is used as a dirty insult. And truly, it reflects on the ignorance and lack of character of anyone who uses it in that fashion. Remember when the Ottawa Sun ran the article on CERB's fundraising efforts for Haiti. The title was "Prostitution Site Raises Money for Haiti," or something very similar. Plenty of CERBites were justifiably upset with the language in the article. To me, this is little different. Again, I'm not saying get rid of it (how else would we refer to politicans?) but that's it's a dirty, hateful little word that serves only to demean those it's used against. Intelligent people would never use an ethnic slur casually and I see little difference between the two.

[Andee 220524]

I have a black friend who said it's okay for him and his friends to call each other niggers, but takes offence to strangers calling him that because most often it is meant to be deragotory.

 

I share the same view as Carrie about the word whore. I know it may sound like a double standard, but most people I have encountered who have called me a whore were doing so because they look down on what I do. Only close friends have the right to call me that, and it's usually in jest.

 

I was once asked by someone what it felt like to be a dirty slut and I replied that I wasn't a slut at all because I had the smarts to charge for it instead of give it away for free unprotected like they were doing at the local bar. I am not one for verbal conf.

 

As for the "c" word, I don't have a problem with someone referring to my anatomy in that manner because I sometimes engage in nasty talk when i role play. I also have some very respectful aboriginal clients who use that word and for them it is not considered impolite. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing, but I know they don't mean anything impolite. But to call ME a "c" would offend me.

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

The word "whore" doesn't bother me as long as I'm the one using it to describe myself. But I agree that some men use it as a put-down when they apply it to a woman. However, I don't entertain such men! :icon_wink:

 

Language that has texture and contrast is meaningful and stimulating. I've noticed that, at the right moment, referring to myself as a whore often has a significant effect on my companion. That's worth a great deal to me. And urging him to fuck my c**t at the right time usually ratchets up the heat and intensity quite a bit!

[funtimes 101]

Megan is right about a particular group taking ownership of a word to take away its negative connotation but with one qualifier - it is usually not ok for someone from outside that particular group to use it. For instance, as mentioned, rappers use the "N" word to describe each other every day but it is still too raw usually for a white guy to use it, they don't have the history to take ownership of it.

[docottawa 541]

What a great thread with thoughtful and clear opinions being shared. This is the way that discourse in a free society is meant to run. The fact that we can discuss this issue in the way that we are is directly attributable to the fact that we enjoy freedom of speech on the internet.

 

By limiting our language we limit our freedom to express ourselves.

 

Yes, words can be hurtful. Yes, words can make us angry. Yes, words can shock our sensibilities. However, in a free society we have no right to be protected from having our feelings hurt by words.

 

For example, AngelaofOttawa, you say a number of things in your latest post on this subject. All of them well stated. However when you say that:

 

"Only close friends have the right to call me that, and it's usually in jest."

 

I must disagree. Any person absolutely has the right to call you a "whore". It is one of our rights within this free society to do so. It is the same right that allows you to call that person a "God damned, little dicked, son of a bitch.". You wouldn't want that right taken away, I'm sure. ;)

 

A person who uses language to express vitriol is often exposed as an ass and we're then able to refute that persons ideas, freely and publicly. It's the beauty of language.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Yes it is a free society but there is always a limit to every civilized free society. In this case freedom of expression does NOT extend to hateful derogatory and demeaning words and those who use it intentionally to hurt another human being should and will be punished. This is the law in every free and civilized society. And since when demeaning and hurting another human being has become a right???!!!!.

[Guest f***2f***]

Yes words are very interesting. They can be used to cut and destroy or they can be used to build up and compliment. Usually the same word or words can be used and as others have pointed out it is the context in which they are used that is all important.

 

The word, whore, generally has a negative connotation. It is pejorative in most every day speech. Yet if used gently during love making or during "dirty talk" it can enhance the event. Like most words we should choose the ones we use carefully. To avoid offense, especially with someone we've just met or don't know all that well it is best to stick to respectful and unambiguous words. I usually like to tell a woman how pretty she is....when she is...honest and sincere compliments are never inappropriate.

 

I'm fond of telling a certain lady how beautiful she is...I asked her once if she minded me telling her so often and she said "I never get tired of it...though you've said it before, don't stop, I like it."

[docottawa 541]

Secret Admirer,

 

You're correct that there is a limit to free speech. It is illegal to spread lies about a person's actions or character, there is a law against that here in Canada. For example, if I was to send a letter to the editorial page of my local paper claiming that my accountant is a fraud and he isn't...I could be tried in court and found guilty of an offense. It is illegal to incite a person to commit a crime of violence, there is a law against that too. If I were to council my neighbour to assault the postman...again I would end up before a judge. It's also illegal to threaten someone with physical violence. There are safeguards within our legal system to protect against unfettered freedom of speech and justly so. However, I respectfully refute your claim that:

 

"In this case freedom of expression does NOT extend to hateful derogatory and demeaning words and those who use it intentionally to heart (sic) another human being should and will be punished. This is the law in every free and civilized society."

 

So, for example, if you were to come up to me on a sidewalk and say loudly and for all within earshot to hear, that you think me fat, lazy, ugly, pasty, overweight, too skinny, foul of breath, demented, deluded, a Leafs fan, belligerent, stubborn, etc... Well, you may find yourself out of breath and my feelings might likely be hurt but you would absolutely be within your right to do so. That is your right as a Canadian citizen. You can say all sorts of mean things to me. Is it nice? No. Is it mean? Yes. Would it likely expose you to the gathered crowd as a raving bully? Probably. You see, that is another great thing about free speech. If I hear a man call a woman a whore I would more likely think poorly of him then I would of her. I might even exercise my very own right to step in and tell the fellow that he is behaving like an insufferable twit. Most of the women who I know, however, would likely be faster of wit and tongue than I in setting the fool straight. I also imagine that most of the women who are posting their opinions on this subject within this very thread would be strong and smart enough to make the jerk look like more the fool than he already is. Free speech would allow them to do so.

 

Blah, blah, blah...Somebody stop me before I rant some more!

[Guest f***2f***]

A Leaf's fan??!! God is there any worse insult??

[Capital Hunter 18263]

docottawa.

 

I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding that the use of derogatory demeaning words such as the ugly "N" word on people of African origin or the ugly "F" word on people with different sexual orientation and many other hurtful slangs on men and women with intention to hurt and demean is illegal if a complain is made and witnesses are present. I know as a fact that people have been fired from their jobs for such behaviour. I don't know as a fact if someone has been actually fined or gone to jail. As I mentioned I am not a lawyer and I could be wrong however, what I differ strongly with your previous post and I know it as a fact (and don't have to be a lawyer for that) is that the use of such slangs with intention to hurt and demean other human beings IS NOT A RIGHT that a Canadian citizen or infact any citizen of the world has or will have.

 

Regards.

[docottawa 541]

SecretAdmirer,

 

I'm quite confident that you could not be arrested for calling someone a mean name, with or without the testimony of witnesses. It isn't illegal.

 

People have the right to be mean and offensive, just as you and I have the right to not associate with people who exercise that right.

 

You are correct when you say that people have been fired for being mean, insensitive or outright offensive. It's pretty good policy to get rid of workers who are jerks. They tend to make for a toxic work environment. You've probably also noticed that people who are mean tend to be repulsive to decent people. That's the way social interaction works.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on your assertion that:

 

I know it as a fact (and don't have to be a lawyer for that) is that the use of such slangs with intention to demean other human beings IS NOT A RIGHT that a Canadian citizen or infact any citizen of the world will have.

There are countries in which it is illegal to insult people, yes. In Yemen or Morroco, for example, it is illegal to insult the head of state. In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to insult a whole religion! There are, however, no laws in Canada that expressly forbid insulting somebody. Allowing, of course, that the insults are not lies.

[roamingguy 300291]

Secret Admirer,

 

You're correct that there is a limit to free speech. It is illegal to spread lies about a person's actions or character, there is a law against that here in Canada. For example, if I was to send a letter to the editorial page of my local paper claiming that my accountant is a fraud and he isn't...I could be tried in court and found guilty of an offense. It is illegal to incite a person to commit a crime of violence, there is a law against that too. If I were to council my neighbour to assault the postman...again I would end up before a judge. It's also illegal to threaten someone with physical violence. There are safeguards within our legal system to protect against unfettered freedom of speech and justly so. However, I respectfully refute your claim that:

 

"In this case freedom of expression does NOT extend to hateful derogatory and demeaning words and those who use it intentionally to heart (sic) another human being should and will be punished. This is the law in every free and civilized society."

 

So, for example, if you were to come up to me on a sidewalk and say loudly and for all within earshot to hear, that you think me fat, lazy, ugly, pasty, overweight, too skinny, foul of breath, demented, deluded, a Leafs fan, belligerent, stubborn, etc... Well, you may find yourself out of breath and my feelings might likely be hurt but you would absolutely be within your right to do so. That is your right as a Canadian citizen. You can say all sorts of mean things to me. Is it nice? No. Is it mean? Yes. Would it likely expose you to the gathered crowd as a raving bully? Probably. You see, that is another great thing about free speech. If I hear a man call a woman a whore I would more likely think poorly of him then I would of her. I might even exercise my very own right to step in and tell the fellow that he is behaving like an insufferable twit. Most of the women who I know, however, would likely be faster of wit and tongue than I in setting the fool straight. I also imagine that most of the women who are posting their opinions on this subject within this very thread would be strong and smart enough to make the jerk look like more the fool than he already is. Free speech would allow them to do so.

 

Blah, blah, blah...Somebody stop me before I rant some more!

 

Well I too am no lawyer, but I do know that within the federal public service use of that sort of language against co-workers is covered under harassment policies, and can involve serious consequences (including I believe, loss of job). Likewise, if a citizen was dealing with the public service, and that citizen was talked to using the "c" word, "n" word, called a whore, etc etc etc, there would be consequences too

Not to mention libel and slander laws, and hate legislation under the Criminal Code and Canadian Human Rights Act

For me, and I've said this before, when you use, in your day to day communication words such as the "c" word, whore, other derogatory words to describe race, gender, sexual orientation etc etc etc it allows the person using those words to see other people as less than people and when you think of someone as less than a person, you believe that it is ok to treat them as you like

RG

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Not to mention libel and slander laws, and hate legislation under the Criminal Code and Canadian Human Rights Act

RG

 

Yes well said RG. This was what I was referring to, as well.

 

Now this is the law as we speak (section 319 of Canadian criminal code):

 

Section 319 - Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of ........

 

I admit that the part on "communicating statements" is subject to interpretation whether it extends to hurtful slangs used intentionally to demean and hurt people, but this was what I could find after just a few minutes of search on the internet. Likely there is a lot more on this subject which makes hateful remarks with intention to demean and hurt punishable by law.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

 

I know it as a fact (and don't have to be a lawyer for that) is that the use of such slangs with intention to demean other human beings IS NOT A RIGHT that a Canadian citizen or infact any citizen of the world will have.

 

 

It is legal, for the most part, in the United States. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do, and I think that that people who do it should be treated with derision by others, but I definitely don't want the government anywhere near that issue.

 

We are kinda dancing around a lot of different issues here:

 

Whether its an "acceptable" word. There's a lot of different opinions on that in this thread, and they are all legitimate. My personal opinion, as I already stated, is the use of that word to apply as a derogatory word to our ladies here is not good, and I would never use it.

 

Whether, among those who think its not a good word, the power of government should be used to regulate that word. And I respectfully disagree with those that feel that way. There will be occasions where people may be offended, but who is going to determine whether and what level or threshold of of "offensiveness" is needed? And how can one person adjust their speech to suit the sensibilities of everyone else? Its just a really bad idea.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Hi Kubrickfan:

 

I think there is a likelihood of a bit of confusion.

 

First the part you quoted as by docottawa was actually my statement, stated in post#39 and I think docottawa was quoting me in his subsequent post.

 

Second and more important, there are two issues here we are debating. One is the legality of making derogatory hurtful comments against someone in public or the use of slangs with intention to hurt people in public. And second issue is whether a citizen has the RIGHT that he or she is born with, to intentionally demean or hurt another human being. Myself, I have the view that it is likely illegal and most definitely is NOT a right of any citizen to hurt another fellow citizen in any society.

 

PS - we are lucky to have a remarkable member on this board with wealth of knowledge on almost any subject who can make comments or attach accurate informative links on above subjects and shed light on our debate. So what is the verdict WIT :-).

 

Regards.

[Cleo Catra 178382]

Somehow I missed this thread until now.

 

I agree with Megans post on page one completely. I also embrace the term.

 

Since I've been in the business, I've had people from my real, personal life, try to have sex with me, and when turned down, they've spread around that they were just looking out for me, because I'm nothing but a dirty whore.

 

I said, yes, I am a whore. But I'm not a slut. And I'm not spreading rumours, because I'm not a liar. This person had nothing to try and come back at me with - he tried to hurt me with a word, because he felt bad about himself for being turned down. And when I didn't get upset at what he called me, HE was the one who looked dumb, not me.

 

Like others have pointed out in this thread, i AM a whore - my profession by definition makes me one. And there's nothing bad about that. Now if someone were to call me a slut, or a liar, or something that I know I am not, I would get angry - but not at the word itself, but at the falsehood being said about me.

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

The discussion of semantics and legal definitions doesn't really address lowdark's original point. He wasn't talking about the use of "whore" from a civil or human rights standpoint, or whether it was legal to use the word. He was objecting to its use to describe women in places like CERB. He thinks that the word debases and degrades women and shouldn't be used as a matter of courtesy, or gentlemanly etiquette.

 

Fair enough.

 

The question is not whether it's legal to call someone a whore (whether she exchanges sex for money or not). It's what kind of language does a gentleman use to refer to the women in his life, whether they are sex workers or not.

 

Language has enormous power. It can wound and maim. Sometimes it kills. Most often, though, the words we use say more about us, as users, than about the people, places and things we describe. A man who refuses to describe me as a whore has a higher standing with me than one who doesn't. Why, I turned down a meeting with someone just last week because I knew we weren't compatible. He responded in e-mail, saying that I'm just an over-priced, trumped-up whore. I took that as confirmation that we wouldn't get along well in person. I don't consider it something to be worth debating, however.

 

Context is everything.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Thanks for the post and comments WIT. As usual very informative. In my view the law is always a gray area and subject to interpretation. I guess that is why we have lawyers, judges and prosecutors lol.

[mark101 214]

Thank you WrinkledinTime for the info again you are invaluable.

freedom of speak Wins

[Kubrickfan 12836]

To WIT's latest post, this goes to the point I was making ... any law that attempts to control speech because of how it would offend another is necessarily subjective and, in whole, a bad idea especially when it is compared with the chilling effect it could have on free speech.

 

Again, I'm a US citizen living in the US, but cases like this are dismissed even more quickly in the US. The only thing that would be worse would be if the government was the party fililng the action.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Deb Kinder, of the Sex Worker Action Group (SWAG),

at her office at the HIV/AIDS Regional Services office

on Princess Street, Kingston, Ontario.

 

Her T-shirt "Whore" is an acronym for

"We Honour Ourselves With Respect and Empowerment"

and sales of the shirt is a fundraiser for SWAG.

 

(Photo: Ian MacAlpine, The Whig-Standard)

 

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2983989

[VedaSloan 119179]

I am reading "Reclaiming Eros: Sacred Whores and Healers" ed. Suzanne Blackburn and Margaret Wade and in the introduction is the following:

 

"...In fact, the word "whore comes from a quite noble source. Egyptian temple priestesses were called Ladies of the Hour. Each was entrusted with the protection of the solar boat of the sun god Ra as he passed through her hour of darkness, making his way across the underworld. Thus, the Dance of the Hours celebrates the divine whores, the Horea, who were the keepers of the night hours. In Persia, the Ladies of the Hour were called Houris, in Babylon Harine, and among the Semites, Hor. The Horea tended the souls of those in their care, guarded the gates of heaven, and trained men in the sexual mysteries. The oldest Hebrew folk dance, the Hora, is named after the circle dances of the sacred harlots." (3-4).