To the Mrs who like Negotiating

[mod 135639]

the "NO, NEVER, NOT" is not the mood killer... Asking to negotiate in the first place was! :wink:

 

That sums it up - great comment.

 

I have had nasty emails from guys when I voice my opinion on this subject here. Some guys think it's their god given right to negotiate everything including escorts - and often these same people are the ones complaining about the service or giving bad reviews. I just shake my head and think "You Idiot". Some people just do not realize how insulting this is and that "you get what you pay for" when you negotiate a "Service" of any kind.

 

Most SP's will take this VERY personal as you are pretty much saying "I don't think you are work $$$ but I would be willing to pay $$. (You can't get much more insulting than that - talk about hurting someones self worth) - I do NOT allow people to complain about a SP's prices here on cerb. If I find posts where someone is complaining that the ladies prices are too high I simply delete the post and send a letter to the person who felt it nessassary to comment like this in public. (Often I remove these people as they reply back to my PM yelling at me - I have no time for that foolishness)

 

If you try to negotiate with a service provider or any kind (Sex worker, Contractor, web designer, etc...) you really end up getting what you pay for ... or nothing at all.

 

If by chance you do find a lady with a "pay less option" you would be a fool to think that you will have the same quality of service as someone willing to pay full price.

[Kyra.Graves 23779]

In Canada we have adapted to a level of the price is the price, and certainly 75% of the men out there understand this, some of us usually tip as well if the session was really a good value.

<snip>

The money and the act need to separate transactions, if you are going to be in the business long term.

 

 

Okay I'm not even sure where to start.

If you could please provide some references for the information you have provided I'd appreciate it, as I strongly disagree with your theories and the many lectures and courses I've attended have taught me differently I would like to know your sources in order to compare.

 

Rather than debating point by point I'll simply agree that negotiating is not a good idea but for vastly different reasons. I am a trained negotiator and have attended many workshops put on by various business schools on the art of negotiation and economic egagement. I've also taken many marketing and social science courses where I've learned that there is a difference in how people approach different scenarios and that the mind does not and cannot apply market values to all engagements, that many people actually apply social values to many business engagements and that this is actually a very effective way for people to do business and that we often achieve higher tangible results by setting a social values environment.

 

When social values are applied to a setting you'll find that switching to a market values mindset often offends the other party. Imagine having your mother-in-law make a really nice dinner and instead of bringing a nice bottle of wine (which is a form of payment, but a gift is a socially accepted payment) you at the end of it decide to stand up and say "that was great, now what do I owe you?" and proceed to count out some cash and toss it on the table. That would be socially unacceptable, you would be applying market values to a social setting and she would not find it funny. Instead saying "That was wonderful and I appreciate your hard work, I'd like to get you a nice gift." would be a socially acceptable response. We as a society accept gifts in kind for our hard work in social situations.

 

When escorts are working they generally apply social values, hence they ask for the money in an envelope and not to be discussed. Because the discussion of money begins to bring Market values into terms and they now have a business mindset which is hard to get out. They can no longer feel like they are out with a friend and having fun, which ruins the social mood, they are now applying market values. Since they cannot just accept gifts as they do require payment as a source of income they have found a way to keep the market values discussion to a minimum by using 3rd parties (agents) or using the advertisements to set rates on their behalf. Negotiation beyond an initial discussion will ensure that a market values mindset is in place and girls will feel like they are entering a business transaction which I cannot stress enough will for many not allow them to get the 'social/date' atmosphere back and they will not be able to enjoy their meeting.

 

This is not about being professional or not, it's simply the way the majority of peoples minds work across all professions. This is an area of marketing that is studied and taught in Universities and Business Schools around the world and it's very effective in gaining our trust and getting our business. Understanding this is how we think and how we act goes a long way to explaining not only the SP industry but why we purchase the investments we do, why we select a certain Doctor, Bank, Insurance company (Like a good neighbour State Farm is there - an example of a social values marketing), etc.

I would probably say that the opposite is true, it's a sign of professionalism for a girl to recognize that many clients apply social values to these situations and that avoiding a market value situation is important in ensuring a good call for a vast majority of clients. I have read many a review where the client posts that they felt uncomfortable that the topic of money was brought up, this is often because they unknowingly switched to a market value mindset and could not suspend the social values belief. A good friend would not have brought up the issue of money, it goes back to the scenario of counting out the money at the Mother-in-laws table, a good SP will recognize the difference and does not allow market values to enter the equation otherwise she risks putting her client in an awkward situation.

 

Likewise clients that have a market values expectation of negotiating each detail should not book SP's that have social values and SP's that have market values should not seek clients that have social values, the two will not be able to engage each other and will feel terribly disconnected from each other.

 

 

Studies show that most people once they apply market values to a situation they cannot return to social values. The majority of clients and ladies see it as a social environment and need to suspend the belief it is not a transaction so bringing market values into the transaction is not something that can be done.

 

 

It is not about the persons abilty to negotiate, I know how to negotiate and have no difficulty doing that. It is about understanding marketing and social sciences. If you continue your research and learn more about the nuances of negotiation skills and the mindset behind it then perhaps you'll learn that there is a lot more than just the dollars and cents aspect.

 

 

I'd suggest reading Predictably Irrational to start as that's the book I referenced most.

In addition the MIT Opencourseware on Negotiation is an easy access if you don't have access to the certification programs at Shulich or Rotman.

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-667Spring2001/Syllabus/index.htm

[d*mm*y 887]

Okay I'm not even sure where to start.

If you could please provide some references for the information you have provided I'd appreciate it, as I strongly disagree with your theories and the many lectures and courses I've attended have taught me differently I would like to know your sources in order to compare.

 

...

 

I'd suggest reading Predicably Irrational to start as that's the book I referenced most.

In addition the MIT Opencourseware on Negotiation is an easy access if you don't have access to the certification programs at Shulich or Rotman.

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-667Spring2001/Syllabus/index.htm

 

Clearly I now nothing about marketing? I guess I am just lucky. All I am saying is that a percentage of people will have a nagging need to negotiate or ensure that they are not over paying, I do believe that it is around 25% as I have actually been in marketing and sales for 25 years and that seems to be the average ratio in other industries that I have been involved in, of course other than the MBA I have little formal training in sales I have just needed to be successful to put food on the table, and BMW's in the driveway.

 

However what ever the number, it is an overlooked portion of the market. Ya the majority of us are happy to produce the requested amount and usually a little extra as a thank you, and the majority of SP's don't want to have to deal with the negotiators. The thread was a request from an SP to be ignored by the negotiators and all I am saying is lets not be so quick to rule them out. Also if you can move from Social values to monetary values and back again and bring the client with you than you will be unstoppable. Part of understanding the social values is understanding the the gift is not usually equal value i.e. a good meal is disproportionately worth more than the average bottle of wine, it is a token as opposed to a value. Insisting on a value vs a token is a 2 way street. SP's that are fine with 300 but become indignant with 200 are feeding the fire, if I brought a crappy bottle of wine vs an expensive bottle would I be any the less a guest? I knew an Asian lady that never asked for an amount she simply requested a token of appreciation and left it up to the gentlemen to decide what was right, if the amount was to low she did not repeat, she was extremely polite about the entire transaction.

 

Sorry if my thoughts are rebellious and outrageous but I really do believe that some will negotiate and I think it is around 25% however I am certainly not interested in debating the % and even at 5% it is still a market? I think the point that there is a fine line between love and money is a good point and it certainly is my point when I say that if you can move from one mode to the other seamlessly and bring the client with you, you will have great success. I really am not interested in theories about why we negotiate or the differences between a social interaction or a monetary one, and definitely not interested in debating the social values at play here. I am just saying I have met ladies that have ways of overcoming this without simply ignoring the potential client, and it is possible. If you think it is not possible and not worth it than that is fine to.

 

I know that I do make a conscious decision on who I see based on the price, service level, and my available cash, I have made offers outside of the normal offerings (longer engagements, special requests) , and I would never dream of offering a lady less than she asked. These are facts I can say with certainty. If you think I am not a typical client and you want to believe that most clients don't consider the monetary requirements than that is fine, but at some level the price is a consideration I believe for many hobbyists. And it is most certainly a consideration for the vast majority of SP's, I wish there was an SP out there that would consider a bottle of wine a fair consideration!

[capitalman 3861]

I can appreciate the SP's lifestyle and can relate a lot, however I'm still in search of better rates all the time. It's just human nature.

 

Being in the service industry myself (construction), I have noticed many clients balk at high prices but don't mind once they see the final quality product. Even though I don't need to, I quite often supply extras without charge, and I always always always present myself in the cleanest most respectable way I can and always clean up after myself. Usually I try to leave the place cleaner than it was when I entered.

 

This extra service makes clients call me back and recommend me to others.

 

A lot of clients try negotiating without actually saying "will you take this much instead?" but I can sense these people and I will quite often offer a slightly lower rate, or offer less services for a lower rate because I can tell that's what they need/want.

 

One last thing, it's the little people with small jobs and not a lot of money that are my bread and butter. Although I don't get rich off them, they supply me with steady income, easy work (because I know them and quite often just have a key to let myself in) and these people are my most valued clients...even though they never hire me to do big jobs, I can count on them.

[buggernot 588]

Very informative post Kyra, thank you.

 

I'll just throw my ignorant layman's view out there and say that even if negotiation can be accepted in certain professions, my personal take is that it doesn't work for this one. It is meant to be an intimate experience, hopefully involving the mind as well as the body. The bottom line is in no doubt the physical aspect, but creating a mental connection exponentially enhances the date. To risk insult and try to barter will almost guarantee that you've ruined the whole thing for both parties. Those that don't care how the sp feels more often or not are borderline antisocial personalities. For me, I want the money thing to be as discreet and removed from the session as much as possible...want to maximize the illusion as well.

 

Granted, there are those that do have the negotiating capability to read the situation, sense when/if there is an opening, and act on it with tact and class. Dummpy seems like the kind of guy to have that, but there's probably too many that try and don't.

[esoterica 624]

Likewise clients that have a market values expectation of negotiating each detail should not book SP's that have social values and SP's that have market values should not seek clients that have social values, the two will not be able to engage each other and will feel terribly disconnected from each other.

 

Studies show that most people once they apply market values to a situation they cannot return to social values. The majority of clients and ladies see it as a social environment and need to suspend the belief it is not a transaction so bringing market values into the transaction is not something that can be done.

 

It is not about the persons abilty to negotiate, I know how to negotiate and have no difficulty doing that. It is about understanding marketing and social sciences. If you continue your research and learn more about the nuances of negotiation skills and the mindset behind it then perhaps you'll learn that there is a lot more than just the dollars and cents aspect.

 

This is the crux of her argument. You can negotiate a car or another commodity but there are services that you cannot negotiate. try negotiating with the guy giving you a root canal or the lady fixing your angina. (I said ANGINA, you dirty minded people). Or the guy fixing your brakes after they have seized.

 

Dumpy appears to be putting SPs in the category of services that are negotiable, and the majority of the ladies are putting their services in the other category.

 

There's a market for both - but you tend to get what you pay for (or negotiate for). You can negotiate a cheap bj for $80 on CL. Some may actually get off on that - others may consider it an unpleasant experience.

[spud271 47779]

As I have said in another thread about negotiating rates, I have never done this and never plan to. I find it very insulting to the sp who has clearly picked that rate for a reason. Now I have had sp's drop their rate for me because I am a regular or they just felt like it. I never ask why and don't know the reasons why they have done this, but I never ask them to do this. I find it very insulting and disrespectful!

[esoterica 624]

As I have said in another thread about negotiating rates, I have never done this and never plan to. I find it very insulting to the sp who has clearly picked that rate for a reason. Now I have had sp's drop their rate for me because I am a regular or they just felt like it. I never ask why and don't know the reasons why they have done this, but I never ask them to do this. I find it very insulting and disrespectful!

 

I agree. I like it when this happens - although I prefer more time to lowering rates usually because I spend the time snuggling or chatting.

[A***** A***** 510]

As I have said in another thread about negotiating rates, I have never done this and never plan to. I find it very insulting to the sp who has clearly picked that rate for a reason. Now I have had sp's drop their rate for me because I am a regular or they just felt like it. I never ask why and don't know the reasons why they have done this, but I never ask them to do this. I find it very insulting and disrespectful!

 

I feel exactly the same way, and you expressed it better then I ever could. Thanks.

[spud271 47779]

I am actually with you on this esoterica, I prefer to sit and chat for a while with the lady I am visiting. Especially with my regular ladies, as it is more than just a transaction, but a different form of a relationship. Snuggling with a beautiful woman is also worth it!

 

 

I agree. I like it when this happens - although I prefer more time to lowering rates usually because I spend the time snuggling or chatting.

[spud271 47779]

Why thank you luv! I think the respectful and intelligent hobbyiest feel the same way as I do.

 

I feel exactly the same way, and you expressed it better then I ever could. Thanks.

[d*mm*y 887]

I just wish to let you know that I will not answer your emails, I will hang up on you and I will refuse to meet with you.

 

It is sooo disrespectful.

 

It is already a really big priviledge that you have to even be able to spend intimate times with a girl like me.

 

If you want a girl for 200, do your research and find one who charges that.

 

Trying to tidy up my end of things;

Miss. Maria,

I think you now have a good idea of why you dislike negotiation so much, you have some strategies to get around the negotiator if you choose to do more than simply ignore, and you have made it clear to anyone considering your services that anything covered on your web site is not negotiable. You now have a choice to be open to special request and other forms of more subtle negotiations, if you choose to be.

 

For the rest of you, I am sorry if I have offended you with my ideas of sex for money, I have come to terms with the money and sex part personally and I don?t run from the money side I believe I am being benevolent to these ladies as they need my support, and they are being benevolent to me as I am now old and ugly and can?t get it for free like I used too!!! We all have our personal strategies and ways of coping with the money vs the service thing. Let?s not start to pick on anyone because their way is different than ours, even if we believe that they are dead wrong in there approach. This board was built on differences of opinions, the last thing we need to do is start alienating people.

 

 

As any of you who have met me or read other posts on the subject of gratuities and proper compensation know, I am in the majority of us that believe that these types of negotiations are very bad for the visit.

[rickoshadows 937]

One last thing, it's the little people with small jobs and not a lot of money that are my bread and butter. Although I don't get rich off them, they supply me with steady income, easy work (because I know them and quite often just have a key to let myself in) and these people are my most valued clients...even though they never hire me to do big jobs, I can count on them.

 

Bingo!

 

I have had this type of relationship with two SPs in the past, at different times, both are now retired and one I continued the relationship for sometime after she retired. I was charged less than the going rate but saw them more often. Victoria is a tourist town and the way the girls explained it, local guys like me were their bread and butter, while the tourists in the summer paid for their trips to Mexico.

[a******s.m*****e 187]

I personally don't like to give discounts. My prices are reasonable and it is true that - especially if it is done in an impolite way - it can be offending.

 

Having said that, I do have long time regulars who asked for a price reduction and they got it, partially because they are good, reliable customers, partially because they never stay the whole hour or half hour, so lowering my prices doesn't make me feel being taken advantage of.

 

What ticks me off, are obviously very wealthy people who are stingy.

Dressed in Versace from head-to-toe, wearing a Rolex watch and asking me to take off my panties for them, and when I tell them I charge for that extra service they are not interested anymore:)

 

35 year old guy telling me he is retired living on the Cayman Islands for tax purposes and not leaving a penny tip when leaving, after I worked my butt off on his poor, golf-damaged back :) Don't get me wrong, I don't expect tips, but for a guy like this, $20 is nothing.

 

On the other hand I have regular guys who work in customer service or other bad paying jobs and they still save up to see me. That makes me feel good and sometimes I do a little extra for them to show my appreciation.

 

But unfortunately, you can't change your prices for every customer :)

[PistolPete 61421]

I just came back from a very nice time with an SP, I was there a little less than an hour, it was very intense for our 1st encounter, meaning the multiple positions and the sensuality. I paid my full hourly rate in the envelope, then tip her extra 25 bucks...her reply was "that is very sweet of you, you don't have to do that" it was just my way of saying thanks, with the satisfied service. I do love the ladies in here, they are very giving, and receiving. :-D