Blurring the SP-client relationship...

[Ironsman1 1461]

Just wondering if anyone has had experience seeing an SP outside of appointments on a casual basis? There's been two instances recently where I saw SPs outside of the normal working arrangements.

 

One of them ended up turning into an addict, so she messages me constantly now whenever she needs money. It is actually really sad to see how much someone can deteriorate in a year. She used to be a stunner (almost a perfect 10), but now is a shadow of her former self. I even drove her to the rehab centre an hour out of town once, but it didn't work. Oh well...

 

The other turned out to be a good friend, and I still see her sometimes to chill (and sometimes for business). We even went on a nice weekend trip together and I enjoyed some nice frequent flyer miles from her

 

Anyone else have similar experiences to share?

[Nathalie L 112512]

Boundaries can be blurred for a variety of reasons. Life is complicated and relationships are sometimes complex, including those we have in this industry.

 

While the blurring of boundaries isn't the norm, people are people, and sometimes people meet in this profession and become friends, develop relationships, get married, break up, reach out to each other for help and/or support and genuinely enjoy each others' company.

 

We're all vulnerable, and our hearts are tender. This isn't the only profession where boundaries can be and are sometimes blurred. Any caring type profession has these issues as well (nannies, nurses, care-givers, therapists, doctors, etc.).

 

It's an interesting question for sure, but I doubt you'll get much response. When those boundaries are blurred it really is a privilege and a gift. It should be respected as such. :)

[Guest realnicehat]

Nathalie is right. These types of situations happen in all walks of life.

 

I have been involved in two such relationships, once with a provider and once with a professional of another sort. To discuss them in any detail would only serve to diminish them in my mind. Any joy or heartache is the sole (and perhaps soul) property of the parties involved.

[CristyCurves 169032]

 

One of them ended up turning into an addict, so she messages me constantly now whenever she needs money. It is actually really sad to see how much someone can deteriorate in a year. She used to be a stunner (almost a perfect 10), but now is a shadow of her former self. I even drove her to the rehab centre an hour out of town once, but it didn't work. Oh well...

 

If your wording in this isn't meant as I'm taking it then I'll apologize for what I have to say, but I find your statement so blaze that it caught me off guard and offended me. She was worthy at her 10 position but know that she is a "shadow" oh well! Surely at the beginning this person must have displayed some evidence of her addition or did her beauty just blind you? I find with some men, and not necessarily you, if a girl is a rocket any other negativities about her will be overlooked and possibly fed, when the beauty is gone well so is the mans desire to be around her, she's used up so time to move on to the next. I see you have tried to help as you said you drove her to a rehab clinic and dealing with addicts is a long difficult struggle but never just an oh well. It is very sad to see anyone fall into despair, drugs or other harmful behaviors but these people are still worthy, beautiful and valuable just in need of help, support and understanding.

I think client sp relationships are best kept at the professional level, but that's just my personal opinion .

[Ironsman1 1461]

Not sure what was offensive about that, but allow me to clarify.

 

Before the addiction, she was a bubbly young lady with a pleasant demeanor and unmatched looks. However, after a year of being an addict she really suffered physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is amazing what a year of malnourishment and not taking care of yourself can do.

 

So yes, she used to be a perfect 10 phyiscally, but not any more due to her addiction. That was simply my point. Still doesn't change the fact that we had some good times together, and that I was there for her. I tried my best for her long after she started having these issues.

[Brad 49548]

Ironsman1,

 

I think I know what you meant, but I suspect it was the use of "she used to be a stunner (almost a perfect 10)" that was the concern.

 

Saying it like that could read that the tragedy is only about her physical looks and sound a bit objectifying (especially with the reference to a rating system). The unintentional implication is that the loss of good looks is a tragedy. Your follow-up comment where you phrase your concern more around her physical well-being as well as her mental/emotional health better gets across what (I think?) you mean.

 

As for your original question, I can't say it's something I've experienced. I've met a few wonderful ladies who I greatly enjoy talking to and could quite easily see myself being friends with outside of this. However, it is not something I actually expect or would presume to push for on my end. There are a few ladies who seem comfortable casually messaging back and forth with me, one of which includes some conversations and exchanges of creative writing which I quite value. I consider myself fortunate to get to enjoy even that level of friendship. But I realize a person can be genuinely friendly but still have professional boundaries, and that someone may consider me their "Cerb friend" but that doesn't mean they are about to invite me out for a beer after work.

 

But who knows, maybe if I throw a Game of Thrones viewing party and offer eggnog and rum I'd be surprised who would show up? :)

[Guest webothscore]

Like anything, comes down to good communication skills. To answer the question, yes, I have experienced "blurriness" but it was cleared quickly. She mentioned that staying and watching that half hour comedy with her and massaging her feet should not be construed as anything but that, while I mentioned that I too was not interested in anything over and above the time spent together. That said, I do recognize that ones feelings can be stronger than the other's, in that very same situation. More often than not, unless one is actually striving to make something happen, communication can clear up almost anything, with honesty being the clear kicker. Have a great day.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

I understood what you first meant about her decline. My brother is a chronic alcoholic. I just saw him recently after 3 years, and I was devastated at the change in both his appearance and his personality. So I understood what you meant. Sometimes wording comes across differently compared to verbal expression.

 

I don't believe in "off the clock" time with my gents. My personal belief. My own real life is different then my work life, and I choose to keep the two separated. This is the only way I can remain sane and continue this business. I have no issue with those that choose to see gents outside of work, but my experience, it rarely works. I have seen a small few that have been able to make it work, and even some that have married and are still in love years later. It can work, but both parties need to have their eyes open, so that boundaries are not crossed. Just like she would contact you for money all the time. To me this is crossing the boundary. This is why most gents see sp's, so that when they want to play they do, but other times, they can go about their lives free of someone hounding them for money.

[mrgreen760 37785]

One of the best ways this was put to me was by some one I've seen regularly. We clicked from minute one in all ways. One time sitting drinking some tea after and chatting about a wide range of topics both personal and business related and even talked about blurred lines and she put it so succinctly...in the end I'm a prostitute and you're my customer. If there was an elephant in the room its long gone and we continue to enjoy our time together.

 

Peace

MG

[CristyCurves 169032]

Not sure what was offensive about that, but allow me to clarify.

 

Before the addiction, she was a bubbly young lady with a pleasant demeanor and unmatched looks. However, after a year of being an addict she really suffered physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is amazing what a year of malnourishment and not taking care of yourself can do.

 

So yes, she used to be a perfect 10 phyiscally, but not any more due to her addiction. That was simply my point. Still doesn't change the fact that we had some good times together, and that I was there for her. I tried my best for her long after she started having these issues.

 

Thanks for your response and I don't want to interrupt this thread as the topic is worthy but what I found offensive was the "oh well" basically another one bites the dust attitude. That's just how I read it and yes abuses can cause our physical looks to suffer but just imagine her suffering that is going on the inside. I just felt that her lack of looks is the cause for your distance from her, as possibly if the beauty were still there and the addiction active the sense I get is that you may still want to be around her. Which I find sad. Again if I'm reading more into this than there is I apologize.

[cat 262460]

Just wondering if anyone has had experience seeing an SP outside of appointments on a casual basis? There's been two instances recently where I saw SPs outside of the normal working arrangements.

 

One of them ended up turning into an addict, so she messages me constantly now whenever she needs money. It is actually really sad to see how much someone can deteriorate in a year. She used to be a stunner (almost a perfect 10), but now is a shadow of her former self. I even drove her to the rehab centre an hour out of town once, but it didn't work. Oh well...

 

And gentlemen wonder why SPs lock down their personal lives or just outright lie about their situations...

 

cat

[Guest realnicehat]

And gentlemen wonder why SPs lock down their personal lives or just outright lie about their situations...

 

cat

 

Some men may wonder. Gentlemen don't ask.

[Ironsman1 1461]

can you explain? i don't understand what you mean.

 

And gentlemen wonder why SPs lock down their personal lives or just outright lie about their situations...

 

cat

[nntsci 11075]

Nathalie is right. These types of situations happen in all walks of life.

 

I have been involved in two such relationships, once with a provider and once with a professional of another sort. To discuss them in any detail would only serve to diminish them in my mind. Any joy or heartache is the sole (and perhaps soul) property of the parties involved.

Yes, blurring of boundaries does occur in all areas of life. But in some professions such a psychologist, teacher, doctor, blurring of that relationship can lead to disciplinary proceedings or even a loss of licence. Its funny how little people are aware of things like that. Just recently I was watching some show of TV where a person started dating their therapist -- I can't recall the details because I turned the channel as soon as they got to that ethical violation without even addressing it (I can't even recall if it was a TV show or movie). According to the official rules for psychologists, they'd have to wait 2 years after the end of therapy to become romantically involved. The show Anger Management also has the issue (Charlie is romantically involved with his therapist). In those specific cases the reason that it is considered an ethical violation on the part of the professional is due to the power imbalance between professional and client. Psychology is particularly problematic because of a tendency for romantic interests to form as part of the therapy (what Freud called transference) and it would be unethical for a psychotherapist to take advantage. I don't know if boundaries blurring is considered a problem in other professions (e.g., law?).

 

The power differential doesn't apply in the case of SPs, but transference of emotions could.

 

In the case of SP's there are no official rules.

[Guest realnicehat]

Yes, blurring of boundaries does occur in all areas of life. But in some professions such a psychologist, teacher, doctor, blurring of that relationship can lead to disciplinary proceedings or even a loss of licence. Its funny how little people are aware of things like that. Just recently I was watching some show of TV where a person started dating their therapist -- I can't recall the details because I turned the channel as soon as they got to that ethical violation without even addressing it (I can't even recall if it was a TV show or movie). According to the official rules for psychologists, they'd have to wait 2 years after the end of therapy to become romantically involved. The show Anger Management also has the issue (Charlie is romantically involved with his therapist). In those specific cases the reason that it is considered an ethical violation on the part of the professional is due to the power imbalance between professional and client. Psychology is particularly problematic because of a tendency for romantic interests to form as part of the therapy (what Freud called transference) and it would be unethical for a psychotherapist to take advantage. I don't know if boundaries blurring is considered a problem in other professions (e.g., law?).

 

The power differential doesn't apply in the case of SPs, but transference of emotions could.

 

In the case of SP's there are no official rules.

 

I would have thought it common knowledge that many licensed professionals who cross the line with a client or patient risk losing said license. I think a lot of things are glossed over on TV simply due to time restraints and it is often assumed the audience is aware of the underlying implications.

 

While it is true there are no official rules against an SP and client entering into some kind of non-professional relationship there is still potential for severe damage to her business should things go wrong.

 

Rules or no rules, I still don't think that it is something to be shared as story time here on Cerb. I couldn't put it any better so I will just use Nathalie's quote: "When those boundaries are blurred it really is a privilege and a gift. It should be respected as such."

[nntsci 11075]

I would have thought it common knowledge that many licensed professionals who cross the line with a client or patient risk losing said license. I think a lot of things are glossed over on TV simply due to time restraints and it is often assumed the audience is aware of the underlying implications.

 

While it is true there are no official rules against an SP and client entering into some kind of non-professional relationship there is still potential for severe damage to her business should things go wrong.

 

Rules or no rules, I still don't think that it is something to be shared as story time here on Cerb. I couldn't put it any better so I will just use Nathalie's quote: "When those boundaries are blurred it really is a privilege and a gift. It should be respected as such."

that's the thing I find remarkable about TV shows, they don't address the ethical issues at all

 

An example a few years ago was on Fresh Prince going to college and in one particular episode all the women were talking about one of their college professors who was so good looking. Not a word about the conflict of interest or the risk to his career.

[cat 262460]

can you explain? i don't understand what you mean.

 

Let me clarify then. This woman obviously has allowed you into her private life and it is now being written about in a public forum with a PM system. I view a post like this with all of it's implications akin to a quilting bee, rumour mill or a gossip circle. Even if it is true, it is none of our business and without her direct consent should not be a topic of conversation on a business internet forum. When a provider allows a client insight into her personal life it is a given that it is a privilege and therefore the information is not to be disclosed to the general public unless she herself has posted about it previously. Just because one person is privy to private information doesn't mean the community is in need of knowing. I do realize that you didn't give out information that would identify the SP to us but I'm sure you have received (or will) PMs asking who he speaks about. We never know who will say what to whom which is why we guard and protect all that is precious to us from clients.

 

Just don't go there. She has obviously fallen into difficult times, it needn't become the topic of the week. Discretion is a verb and it goes both ways...

 

cat

[Ironsman1 1461]

Fair enough, that is your view and you are certainly entitled to it. It is a true story that actually happened, so I make no apologies for telling it as it is. I did not give any info that would give away her identity and I never will.

 

Just because it is a sensitive issue doesn't mean we should just sweep it under the rug and never talk about it. It is a discussion forum after all. This post was not specifically about her and her issues, but about SP-client relationships.

 

If you find that the thread is too gossipy or slanderous, then you are welcome to ignore it. It original intent of the thread was not about her, so please stop directing attention to that particular issue.

[cat 262460]

As you can see from the response to my post, it is not only myself that felt it inappropriate. Perhaps if the initial post had been worded a little differently to indicate the intention was to discuss interactions, my response would have been unnecessary. Alas, the entire first paragraph was focal and I feel comfortable saying the indiscretion displayed was unpalatable for most Cerbians. I simply said publicly what others were thinking privately or discussing amongst themselves which is how I found out about the thread to begin with...

 

cat

[Guest realnicehat]

It original intent of the thread was not about her, so please stop directing attention to that particular issue.

 

It was you who chose to draw attention to her when you told her story.

 

You had the opportunity to start a potentially thought provoking thread by simply stating:

 

Twice now I have been involved with SP's outside the normal client/provider relationship. One ended horribly while the other friendship still remains strong. I'm curious how common this is?

 

Instead you chose to offer private details in a manner which some felt was rather cold. While true that you didn't offer her identity the escort community isn't huge. It could be quite possible that others have an idea of who you are referring to.

 

While your intent may have been to discuss these types of relationships you essentially hijacked your own thread with that story.

 

Or what Cat just said.......I gotta type faster.

[Ironsman1 1461]

Meh. If you choose to take offense and focus on the negative then it is not my problem. I respect your right to express your point of view, but in this case i disagree.

[Guest **n****er]

My ugly mug couldnt pull it off. Pity. This city is full of stunning ladies.

[olderguy 5797]

It's fine to talk with an SP and get to know her. It's fine to visit her repeatedly. If she shares private info with you, so be it. A gentleman does not ask personal questions that put the lady in an uncomfortable position or one where she needs to lie to protect herself. VISVERSA a true lady doesn't probe too far with her questions to put the guest on edge. I'm sure relationships are struck up in every walk of life - I'm sure this is no exception. But as with most things in life, discretion is the better part of valour.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Meh. If you choose to take offense and focus on the negative then it is not my problem. I respect your right to express your point of view, but in this case i disagree.

 

Agreed. It's a great topic, and I don't think you came anywhere close to identifying enough facts to make it personal. The only way I see it as a problem is if the lady in question is a member here on cerb and knows you by your cerb handle. Instead, you identified two stories, one good and one sad, but both worthy of thought.

 

I have had the good fortune of seeing, and then staying in touch as acquaintances, with a few of the ladies here. I don't get to Ottawa any more (at least for the time being), but I treasure the quick hello messages or quick notes just to catch up. I also had the good fortune of getting to know one very experienced, very smart dancer very, very well and learned a lot about the industry from her. I've also had the honor, on a few rare occasions, of ladies contacting me very privately stating that they are no longer seeing clients generally but would still be willing to see me (on a professional basis of course ... I'm no stud muffin).

 

There's some negatives too ... Nothing so much in the SP area (except via pillow talk from other SPs), but definitely with some of the rude customers that would come in to the strip clubs. And stories here and on the other boards.

 

Together, and to paraphrase Bob Seger, those memories have made me a wealthy soul....

[Cleo Catra 178382]

Early on I hung out with a client or two off the clock. I will never do it again. While I am out in my real-life, believe it or not, Cleo and 'me' are very different, and I want to keep them separate, always.

 

Cleo is a part of me that I love, and I love being her. She is always flirty, always happy, always in the mood, doesn't gossip about others, is always attentive, etc. I truly love being her.

 

The 'real' me can be grumpy. Tired. And, believe it or not - gossipy. Talkative. And she can get pissed off if you comment on her tits and ass. And this me is one I want to keep away from people who have met Cleo.

 

I do truly connect with my clients, and when they ask me for dinner, it sometimes can be hard to decline. Or to tell them... yes... but I'll charge my social rate. It is a bit of a mood-killer to bring up money when someone is trying to offer me a friendly meal. So I'd rather just not do it.