Nice guy syndrome

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

A friend just posted an article about a "nice guy" once again complaining bitterly about women who claim they want a nice guy but then only date bad boys. I'm sure we've all heard the complaint before. Anyway, it got me thinking about this.

 

Our mother's always told us to be nice to girls and treat them with respect (sure, blame the mother :)). With my first few girlfriends I thought that meant give them what they want, put them on a pedestal, always try to make them happy... in other words, the quintessential nice guy! How did it work out? You could call that a rhetorical question. When I first met my now wife after graduating high school I was still using my nice guy card with little success. I wasn't calling women "m'lady" or anything but I was not what you would call a challenge. That changed shortly after my now wife back then said "you're a really nice guy but I'm just not ready for a boyfriend. I hope we can stay friends". I was friend zoned!

 

I decided then and there to look at what just happened? It was after dating some other women who weren't any challenge to me that I realized what was going on here. From then on I made a choice to be interesting, unpredictable and true to my self worth. The next summer when she came home from university our world changed. While I was still a nice guy, the quotations were removed. I was no longer a "sure thing". I challenged her, surprised her and by the end of the summer I knew, to quote Seinfeld, I had hand. Little did I know how much I would need it later in life. LOL

 

I'm not saying I changed who I am, I just realized a few truths about relationship dynamics and keeping things interesting. Coasting during dating or in a marriage seems unfair to both of us. I'm glad for the revelation. Funny, most women (my wife anyway) seem to understand this instinctively but I had to learn it. I'm glad I did as we have a great marriage and while we don't have intercouse due to a medical issue, we are still very much attracted to each other.

 

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, what do you think about the nice guy syndrome? Any stories of your own? Should "nice guys" deserve a relationship? I'm not advocating being an asshole either. Somewhere in the middle between "nice guy" and "asshole" seems about right to me.

 

Of course it goes without saying, you should always be nice to your SP. :)

[cinelli 22184]

Women are programmed to choose a mate who will provide for their offspring and protect them. Nice Guys are too passive. Nice guys won't fight for their girl, nice guys won't fight for a raise either, a good partner is proactive when it comes to taking care of their family.

A nice guy just sits there and hopes nothing bad happens.

A badass makes damn sure nothing bad happens.

 

I drive around in my cheap compact and get zero action. I ride my Harley to work and girls are asking for a ride. Go figure.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Women are programmed to choose a mate who will provide for their offspring and protect them. Nice Guys are too passive. Nice guys won't fight for their girl, nice guys won't fight for a raise either, a good partner is proactive when it comes to taking care of their family.

A nice guy just sits there and hopes nothing bad happens.

A badass makes damn sure nothing bad happens.

 

I drive around in my cheap compact and get zero action. I ride my Harley to work and girls are asking for a ride. Go figure.

 

I do think some of it is programming for both genders but there might be more to it than that, Cinelli. Millionaire matchmaker exists on TV because these successful,, rich, hard charging guys in business, can't seem to get a second date with a pretty woman. Something else is going on here.

Thanks for the reply though.

[Guest D***el B***e]

... nice guys finish last! ... that's all I know. They get the crumbs in the plate, the leftover girls, the candy wrapper, the hand me down stuff, the last to know on important news, the worse seat at the table, the tickets at the back of the venue ... I know I'm a nice guy and haven't outgrown the syndrome yet! ... but I'm getting a tattoo soon, I'm gonna be a bad boy!! lol lol

[VedaSloan 119179]

Guys who have to point out that they're "nice guys" usually aren't.

 

Case in point:

 

http://www.shakesville.com/2007/12/explainer-what-is-nice-guy.html

[Guest D***el B***e]

Guys who have to point out that they're "nice guys" usually aren't.

 

Case in point:

 

http://www.shakesville.com/2007/12/explainer-what-is-nice-guy.html

 

 

Lol ... looks like a direct hit!!! although coming from a nice girl like you it's much appreciated.

[Kate von Katz 49953]

A succinct definition I read somewhere that identifies Nice Guys (the bad kind) from actually nice guys is that Nice Guys tend to approach women as machines where if you put in enough kindness coins, sex falls out. So yeah, Nice Guys are basically using passive manipulation under the assumption that we will reward them with sex just because they're nice to us. Actually nice guys do nice things because they're good people, not for some hidden motive.

 

For any fellow Cracked readers out there, David Wong had a great article - among many - that points out why men are essentially raised to view women as rewards. It's worth a read, as are many of his other articles on the complications of social programming between the sexes...

 

http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

[Mikeyboy 27113]

A friend just posted an article about a "nice guy" once again complaining bitterly about women who claim they want a nice guy but then only date bad boys. I'm sure we've all heard the complaint before. Anyway, it got me thinking about this.

 

Our mother's always told us to be nice to girls and treat them with respect (sure, blame the mother :)). With my first few girlfriends I thought that meant give them what they want, put them on a pedestal, always try to make them happy... in other words, the quintessential nice guy! How did it work out? You could call that a rhetorical question. When I first met my now wife after graduating high school I was still using my nice guy card with little success. I wasn't calling women "m'lady" or anything but I was not what you would call a challenge. That changed shortly after my now wife back then said "you're a really nice guy but I'm just not ready for a boyfriend. I hope we can stay friends". I was friend zoned!

 

I decided then and there to look at what just happened? It was after dating some other women who weren't any challenge to me that I realized what was going on here. From then on I made a choice to be interesting, unpredictable and true to my self worth. The next summer when she came home from university our world changed. While I was still a nice guy, the quotations were removed. I was no longer a "sure thing". I challenged her, surprised her and by the end of the summer I knew, to quote Seinfeld, I had hand. Little did I know how much I would need it later in life. LOL

 

I'm not saying I changed who I am, I just realized a few truths about relationship dynamics and keeping things interesting. Coasting during dating or in a marriage seems unfair to both of us. I'm glad for the revelation. Funny, most women (my wife anyway) seem to understand this instinctively but I had to learn it. I'm glad I did as we have a great marriage and while we don't have intercouse due to a medical issue, we are still very much attracted to each other.

 

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, what do you think about the nice guy syndrome? Any stories of your own? Should "nice guys" deserve a relationship? I'm not advocating being an asshole either. Somewhere in the middle between "nice guy" and "asshole" seems about right to me.

 

Of course it goes without saying, you should always be nice to your SP. :)

 

I do believe that there is some truth to this. We as humans (not just the ladies) have a tendency to appreciate the things we have to work for far more than the things that fall in our laps. Is it the thrill of the chase? I don't think it is quite that simplistic, but if it comes too easily, we tend to question it's value. To quote Groucho Marx, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member." Said in jest of course but it does show some insight into human nature.

 

I had a similar experience when I met my S.O. I was head over heals for her, which ended up pushing her away. When she came back to town a year later, I was with someone else. We started spending a bit of time together, but I made it clear that it was just a friendship and I treated her as such. Seems that at least in this case I became more of a challenge. We are still together many years later.

 

I don't think that that means we should put on an asshole persona, but perhaps to just be conscious of appearing too eager too fast. Most people shy away from anyone who seems needy or wants their feelings validated all the time. Show some interest but keep yourself a bit of a challenge. You can be nice and desirable at the same time.

[drlove 37202]

I'd say a good compromise is to be a decent guy who respects women, but won't take any shit, either. I just experienced that firsthand... my new girlfriend was going through a bit of a rough patch last week / weekend and basically disappeared for about four days with no contact. When I sent texts asking what was up etc, I got no response, but when I took the bull by the horns and threatened to end it, I got a reply within 30 seconds! lol. Now of course, I didn't plan that, and admittedly it was not the best course of action on my part as it showcased my own insecurities coming to the surface, but on a very primal level it does yield results at times.

[NotchJohnson 214078]

What woman want???

They want a man that is confident, a man that knows what he wants, who he wants, when he wants it, where he wants it and how he wants it, plain and simple.

 

The deal is not to be cocky, ok maybe a little but with respect, they love a man that can laugh even at himself but don't put yourself down and don't put a lady down either.

 

I had a great date one time with a wonderful woman and we dated for almost a year and this is how we met. It was a summer afternoon on a terrace in Montreal, she was with some friends and she caught my attention so I worked up the courage to go and talk with her. She was very good looking and she knew it. I introduced myself and was waiting for a reply but she almost did not want to say but she did. I asked what she did for living and she replied she was a pharmacist so I said "WOW!! That is great I never had a friend who was a drug dealer, do you mind if I join you?" The rest was history.

 

Now ladies don't take this the wrong way, has a man we are the stronger sex and that is what a woman wants to see. Am I right?

[Brad 49548]

In all honesty I've always felt the "nice guys finish last" idea is a myth, or as others have suggested some of those guys who say they're nice aren't using the same interpretation of the word as the ladies would!

 

There's some confirmation bias going on here too. People get the idea that nice guys don't fare well and when they look around (or check their own experience) they find an example of where that seemingly was true. Suddenly the evidence seems everywhere...if that's the evidence you're looking for!

 

But objectively if you look around there's all kinds of nice guys in happy relationships, just like there's all kinds of not-so-nice guys striking out.

 

Sometimes I think it seems like the "bad boys" are getting more dates not because they are bad but because they are more confident and so willing to ask for a date (and also because they get dumped more often and so end up asking more people...whereas the nice guy get held onto).

 

Being nice--as in being genuinely nice and respectful--is generally only going to help. Being nice because you think it will get you something...not so much. I'd also guess that being nice by itself...without being interesting or confident, is only going to get you so far. And perhaps that's what some guys find change when they adjust how they act: it's not that they aren't still nice, it's just that they are more confident and independent.

 

But hey, at the end of the day you also simply can't come up with rules for what all women want. Women--People--are simply too complex and varied for such. You just have to look around this site to see the range of variety in what people find interesting, engaging, and attractive.

 

No judgments intended in any of this by the way, just some thoughts.

[cinelli 22184]

Millionaire matchmaker exists on TV because these successful,, rich, hard charging guys in business, can't seem to get a second date with a pretty woman. Something else is going on here.

 

There's more to a guy's likeability than his wallet.

 

I know millionaires who are great guys and millionaires who are complete jerks.

 

Additional Comments:

Sometimes I think it seems like the "bad boys" are getting more dates not because they are bad but because they are more confident and so willing to ask for a date

 

Yes, risk avoidance may be conjoined with "nice" and risk acceptance with "bad boy".

 

A nice guy will stick in his decent job, a bad boy will accept the risk of quitting and looking for a better job, or going to night school to get a trade. The one with the better job will attract the better mate, that's the Selfish Gene 101. Pairing with a better caregiver not only secures the success of the female's offspring but the success of the offspring's offspring.

 

There was an interesting Star Trek The Next Generation episode about this.

Picard went back in time and re-lived his life. He tried to avoid all his mistakes and always played it safe.

He ends up back on the Enterprise but Riker is Captain. Picard is an anonymous science worker. All those risks and mistakes made him the man he was because he learned from them.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

I've made bigger mistakes than you can imagine but I would not change my life one bit.

[Oil Guy1 230]

Anytime a woman ever said to me "I just want to be friends" I answer "sure - but only if we can be friends that have sex " :)

[Amber Rose 19012]

Ah, the Nice Guy Syndrome, my favourite!

 

As several have pointed out, this whole "nice guys finish last" myth is just that - a myth. It's a excuse they come up with to sooth their egos when they've been rejected by a women. They believe they are the ultimate package, and can't understand why a women would not sleep with them, so they find some reasoning behind it, besides actually looking at themselves.

 

You can usually spot a nice guy by hearing their proclamations of "I'm a really nice guy!"

If you're genuinely a nice guy, you usually don't start off by describing yourself as such, you just live your life in a kind and respectful way.

 

If you really want to see Nice Guy Syndrome in action, just try some good ol' fashioned online dating! The "nice guys" are plentiful there!

 

Usually these men are quite manipulative and sexist, and not actually kind or respectful at all. They'll usually start off by complimenting you endlessly, and then when you state that you are not interested, they will turn around and whine about how they were never interested in your anyways, and you would be lucky to be with a guy like them, they were just trying to do you a favour!

 

These "bad boys" that women usually date and end up getting hurt by, usually come off as confident, respectful, and charming, which is why women are so attracted to them. It usually isn't until they're already invested in the relationship before they see that persons true colours!

 

There are many genuinely nice and respectful men out there who women will love to be with, and just because one women isn't romantically interested in you, doesn't mean another might fall head-over-heels for you :)

 

A good video to watch about "nice guys" and why the friend-zone is a load of crap:

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[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Thanks for the input everyone. I also don't think regular nice guys finish last.

 

When I wrote this post I was referring to dating and thought most "nice guys" were just clumsy at relationships and kind of defaulted to being too nice when approaching women. That's why I posted my own story about using confidence, unpredictability, mystery and valuing yourself as a worthwhile person when approaching or dating women. That works better than wishing and acting too nice.

 

Of course, there is another breed of not so nice guys that try manipulation and guilt to get what they want. I knew they were out there but hopefully they are in the minority. They seem more sociopath than the clumsy nice guy I was referring to. I guess it all comes down to how you react. If you become bitter and blame everyone but yourself you will tend to repeat the same story or pattern. If you try to learn from an experience and stay focused on what you want, you usually get what you want in the end. Whether that's riches, success or the girl.

 

In the end, we should all be nice and not try to screw someone over in a business or social relationship. The truly successful will follow this path.

[Guest Cr**gCa***ng]

I have been described by many who know me as a "good man" who is very loyal to his family and friends. For the most part I am very much a nice guy but my niceness can disappear when those I care about are attacked verbally, emotionally or physically. The biggest error anyone can make with me is to mistake my kindness as weakness and take advantage of me. I believe in being responsible and accountable for my words and deeds which includes being self-reliant and assertive all while being kind, caring and empathetic. In my own personal experience I've never finished last in anything. Edit: I am content being a "good man" and a nice guy who wants or expects to gain nothing from it.