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Miel, I nominated your post because I agree and support your message and what you said during your rant. However, Miel, the expletives are a bit harsh (YEA RIGHT! FUCK YOU: PAY ME!). Ok, I don’t consider myself a prude, and can swear as much as the best of them, but you can get your message across without the “Fuck You” don’t you think? A wide audience is reading this, and most if not all, certainly don’t condone the actions that you have been exposed too, and can surely sympathize. I hope these actions never happen again. On the other hand, I hope the message you are sending (FUCK YOU: PAY ME!) to a particular person or persons have been received loud and clear. Hope your Canada was great.

I can relate to you Miel. Usually these guys are few and far between for me but when I meet them, I just want to bitchslap some of them. For example, I had someone call the other day and asked if I "partied". I just hung up. It's like you constantly have to be on guard and sometimes that can give a good client a bad impression such as asking them to take care of business prior to an encounter. In a perfect world, they would always pay at the end or place the envelope on the table but when you have to ask for it beforehand because you're so paranoid you'll be ripped off or shortchanged, it does sort of ruin the mood. However, it has to be done because we are providing a service and how we make a living or by supplementing other income. Just keep going because for every idiotic client, there is always a nicer one waiting in the wings. I have also learned that if you give an inch, people will often take a mile. Or they will expect things if you do something once. Nothing can change people's behaviour or their ways but we can often change our approach to how we do things and that is what has kept me going when I encounter these type of clients. They're not even worth calling clients. Just emotional drainers.

As a massage provider, I disagree. I expect ALL my clients to be charming, courteous, and clean. Doing so will get you the services I offer, not extras.

It is paying for sex. Plain & simple. To think otherwise is delusional. When guys think this way, it can lead to an emotional bonding with the SP that should not be so as it is not reciprocated & puts the SP in an uncomfortable position. Maybe the term 'GFE' is partly to blame. Leave the envelope in plain view containing the payment as soon as you arrive. This gets that 'business' part out of the way so there is no thinking about it for the rest of the time. The SP is more at ease because it is out of the way. I have had SP's not even touch the envelope the whole time I am there. This does seem to make it less of a 'business transaction' but there has to be some level of trust first.

Hi ladies and gents... I noticed the tech corner doesn't have a faq for questions (at least questions I get daily) about browsers, virus scanners and what to do. So I was thinking we should start one. Not sure if I'm allowed to add links or not, so I didn't. But I can add them if it is allowed. Anyone else that's tech savvy, please feel free to add more! Browser Recommendations: Firefox Google Chrome Free Virus Scanners: Avast! Antivirus Scanner Microsoft Security Essentials Pay-to-use Virus Scanners: Kaspersky Nod32 (My personal favourite for being lightweight and easy to use) Housekeeping applications: CCleaner The idea behind this security stuff to try to prevent what you can from attacking your computer, catching the sneaky viruses and trojans. The more common things can be prevented just by simply doing Windows Updates as they come.

I admire Secret Admirer for how he conducts his encounters. Any lady that meets SA will be treated like a "Princess" while they are his guest. What really could be better? If SA has a personal view of having a guest over and and it is his view that he is not paying for sex, then so be it. We can all have our own personal view of the hobby and what it means to us as individuals. Cheers and Happy Hobbying

....and following a blissful encounter a couple weeks ago at the Crown Plaza, I'd hope that("safe") would further include a towel on the bathroom floor, or something. Went skidding with the first step out of the tub !(pre-rinse solo) In the very least, risked pulling a crucial groinal muscle(bad) - or, could've(almost) come down in a twisted mess of limbs, fractured cranial bone and shattered porcelain(very bad). Fortunately, none of the above occured, and Mtl's Addictive's lovely Alicia had me soon forgetting all about my slippery brush with..., well, a serious freakin' boo-boo at best. Odd, didn't see my life flash before my eyes, just myself staring back at me from the giant bathroom mirror in wide-eyed terror. Weird. Wonder what she would've done in the other room following the ground-trembling thud ?

Yes I know the poll is private, then again so is my affairs unless a lady asks myself for a recommendation, most of my recs are time spent with SP's and there is some with MA's. This is not attack on this poll, but looking at the results so far, Kissing,DATY,BBBJ and Full Nude are on the top. Just an example, me the new guy reads this, and then what? goes to a MA and says well everyone seems to be getting all these extras "why not me" It could lead to individuals wishful thinking? Food for thought....

Great thread, SA! And thanks to all for your contributions. I try not to be too philosophical about this, but simply to have total immersion and enjoyment of the experience. But here's my take. Like anything else in life, the attitude you adopt toward something determines its meaning, what it is. Of course there are material and economic preconditions. The experience wouldn't be happening without the commercial exchange, but that's just the entry ticket. What happens next, how it feels and what it contributes to your happiness, is not determined by these conditions. You can chose to think of it just in terms of the basic economic transaction, or you can see that transaction as opening up other possibilities of interaction with a new and fascinating person, who is also skilled at the art of pleasure. But that's a free choice, and that's what makes the experience what it is for you. I've said this before, but in the past year and a half I've never met an sp I didn't like, and enjoy to the full. I love getting to know the person, talking and laughing together, and the intimacy that can feel and be real, though conditional. Once we accept that there are conditions and limits, the rest is up to us. And we don't have to reduce the experience to its preconditions. The art of pleasure isn't just lovemaking itself, but everything that surrounds it, including the attitudes and expectations we bring with us to the meeting. We're free to make of this what we want.

I have to chime in on this one, I've been watching this thread go on and on, it's dizzying! If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... IT'S A DUCK! SPs provide sex for money and that's ok. There is no shame in this hobby/profession, if a person feels shame then maybe this is not the right hobby or profession them. There should be no reason to pretend that sex doesn't occur nor that it's expected. I like my accountant, but I'm not going to invite him to my home to review my finances and investments then turn to him and say "hey let's watch some tv for a while" I'm paying him to balance the books and keep CRA off my back, and he does it quite well. Like wise when I invite a an SP to my house the last thing I'm going to do is watch tv, I have plenty of friends to socialize with but when I've asked an sp to join me for some company there better be some Giddy up goin on with my buckaroo otherwise I'm gonna be one upset cowboy. We are all here on this board because we pay for , or provide sex for money. Plain and simple.

Sex workers and their clients are highly stigmatized and so I think it's normal for one to want to separate him or herself, though it is also delusional. When I first started stripping, I told myself and others "Well you see, there is no penetration and no exchange of bodily fluids, so it's not prostitution." Yeah I rub my nude body all over guys, but I'm not like those nasty prostitutes was essentially what I was saying. Over time, I have accepted that I am just like escorts. Sure, I don't offer FS or BJ, but it's pretty damn close and ultimately not really that different. There is no need to distinguish myself as a way of justifying my work. I accept that I am a sex worker and there is nothing wrong with this! I feel this is what you are trying to do, S_A. There is also a lot of stigma surrounding clients. "You're so low class to hire a prostitute. You're paying for sex because you can't get any in real life. I can't believe you would sleep with a hooker. Did she give you a disease?" I have heard so many clients say things like "I'm not like the rest of the guys you see" assuming all the guys I see are creepy assholes which is simply not true! There is the need to distinguish himself. Maybe it makes you feel better to say "She's a guest in my home and if she likes me and wants to be intimate with me, then she may" but ultimately you are paying for sex and there is nothing wrong with this. I'm a lot happier now that I've stopped constantly justifying myself by distinguishing myself from hookers, and maybe you would be happier if you accepted what you are doing and stopped distinguishing yourself from a John. I just woke up so forgive me if this is not perfectly clear.

Just thought I would throw it out there.... I personally feel kissing is more intimate than intercourse.

This whole area should NEVER be assumed is ok. It would be like having someone stick their finger in your eye, then asking later if that is ok, and/or ignoring the fact that you tell them it is not ok and just keep on doing it. As far as part of GFE at all, I would say no. It might be something a greek provider is open to. I would put it as part of a PSE tho, for those who offer it. Like anything, this is something you should be asking about before you start poking your fingers or tongue into anything at all lol. Also, be extremely careful of trying to combine DATO with DATY. Transferring bacteria from anal to pussy can be extremely harmful, in terms of infections. I would say the same thing about combining DATO with kissing. Just be aware of what you are doing and try to take some precautions; also to be aware of the "ick" factor. I am not too sure of how many people, m or f,, who would welcome the idea of kissing someone who has been licking their ass. A little courtesy and common sense goes a long way. There are far too many unpleasant byproducts of DATO, like exposure to parasites and hepatitis, that make it a really bad idea. But along with that is the fact that many people simply do not want anyone poking around down there, find the sensation unpleasant, and if you are expecting someone to enjoy what you are doing, you should know that going in to always ask first before you do anything whatsoever. And I suggest that if you are a fan of giving and receiving DATO, the very first thing you should get are the hepatitis shots. This will ensure, at least for some part, your continued good health. Oh, and in case anyone was confused by my post, if anyone ever tries to do this with me (consider, I tell you up front it is a no go zone) I will hurt you lol. Be prepared for a very strong and negative reaction from anyone you try this on without asking first.

I think that if your price is listed (especially when it says you do not give change) it is the gentleman's responsibility to come with the correct amount of cash. Disussing money in any way is a turn-off and can alter the mood of a session. Why do you think we ladies ask for the money to be discreetly placed in an unsealed envelope and set on the dresser/table/counter? 'Cause we don't wanna talk about money! Posted via Mobile Device

Money exchange upfront would help avoid such things I suspect. Stating upfront like Ava does is a good idea for your own safety as well. Thankfully it does not happen a lot but in the past some SP's have been robbed (guy asks for change and when you pull your purse out to make change the guy snatches and runs). If you say "Sorry I don't keep any money here to make change for you" (or better yet state it on your website like Ava does) that would remove a lot of the risk I suspect and anyone looking to rob a provider this way may think twice after reading that as well.