Cecil the Lion

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

A magnificent beast is lured out of a protected park with meat so that a dentist, probably with a small penis and other issues, can kill it with a crossbow. Not before having it suffer for 40 hours before finally tracking it and ending its life with a bullet. I've said it before, some days I hate humans! It saddens me that some people actually enjoy killing animals for fun.

 

What do you think about sport hunting? Killing something just to mount its head on a wall? I think the practice needs to be banned everywhere!

[Brad 49548]

If I'm honest with myself it's tricky.

 

My emotional reaction is exactly likes yours, and I can't help but agree with you. However, at the same time I eat all kinds of meat. Now, one can make the argument that killing animals for food is not the same as killing them purely for sport...and yet, it's not like I don't have alternatives. I could survive without eating meat but choose not to, because I really like the taste. Does that make me who gets enjoyment from eating meat any different than someone who hunts because they enjoy the sport? I'd actually feel better if someone can suggest there is a key difference, so please do!

 

Now, in this specific case of Cecil the Lion there's no doubt it was unethical. It was a protected beast and there are real ramifications beyond the ordinary to its suffering and death. The dentist claims he was unaware and simply trusting his guides, but it still seems shady to me. Even if what he says is true, I suspect he was quite content to simply not ask questions.

[scribbles 6031]

If I'm honest with myself it's tricky.

 

My emotional reaction is exactly likes yours, and I can't help but agree with you. However, at the same time I eat all kinds of meat. Now, one can make the argument that killing animals for food is not the same as killing them purely for sport...and yet, it's not like I don't have alternatives. I could survive without eating meat but choose not to, because I really like the taste. Does that make me who gets enjoyment from eating meat any different than someone who hunts because they enjoy the sport? I'd actually feel better if someone can suggest there is a key difference, so please do!

 

Now, in this specific case of Cecil the Lion there's no doubt it was unethical. It was a protected beast and there are real ramifications beyond the ordinary to its suffering and death. The dentist claims he was unaware and simply trusting his guides, but it still seems shady to me. Even if what he says is true, I suspect he was quite content to simply not ask questions.

The key difference you are looking for, Brad, is the *object* of the activity; hunting for food makes the food the object of the activity, where in sport hunting the object is simply enjoyment of taking a life. That's why I have no problem saying that sport hunting is barbaric and disgusting, and absolutely should be banned. As an apex predator, humans have an ethical responsibility to exercise judgment and care for those lower on the food chain than us.

 

As for this asshat, he has been caught breaking hunting regulations before, so his claims of ignorance are pretty weak. Besides, however you slice it, he paid a ton of money to kill something simply for whatever sick enjoyment he got from taking a life, and whatever boost to his ego it gave him. That's pretty pathetic, in my books.

[roamingguy 300291]

A magnificent beast is lured out of a protected park with meat so that a dentist, probably with a small penis and other issues, can kill it with a crossbow. Not before having it suffer for 40 hours before finally tracking it and ending its life with a bullet. I've said it before, some days I hate humans! It saddens me that some people actually enjoy killing animals for fun.

 

What do you think about sport hunting? Killing something just to mount its head on a wall? I think the practice needs to be banned everywhere!

 

I agree with you. Luring Cecil with a dead animal to kill it solely for a trophy (his head and skin) is disgusting. And this "hunt" was done without a licence. Ask any legitimate hunter (or angler) about licences, they make sure they have them, don't leave it up to someone else to worry about. To add to the disgust is they tried to destroy Cecil's tracking collar. This poacher knew his kill was illegal If he didn't why try to destroy the tracking collar. And knowing it was illegal he removed the head and skinned the lion

He says he regrets his actions...bullsh*t!!!...he regrets he got caught that's all

But he isn't a hunter...he is a poacher. Big difference

Idiots like this guy give a bad name to hunters, who lawfully and ethically hunt animals, in season, with a licence and appropriate tags.

And from guys I know who do hunt, they hunt for food, not trophies

This guy had no licence, he tried to destroy evidence (the tracking collar)

baited the lion with a dead animal to lure him out and for what, the lion's head and skin.

If you want an animal for a trophy, in this day and age take a picture, or pictures of the animal you want. Give them to a taxidermist, he/she can make a artificial reproduction of the animal. And the animal lives another day

BTW I'm not opposed to hunting. But poaching, yes definitely opposed

A rambling

 

RG

[Kate von Katz 49953]

Killing for sport I disagree with. Especially protected/threatened/endangered species. Especially lions since the pride is ruled by a single male and now that Cecil is dead, the next male to head the pride will kill all the cubs (I think there are a dozen of them or so right now) to ensure only his seed continues the pride's bloodline. So this asshat is actually directly responsible for the deaths of several lions.

 

Sport hunting makes no sense to me and never has. Seasonal hunting (deer, bear, etc) is not to be lumped into the same category as this shit. It's one thing to hunt an animal whose population is healthy. It's a whole different can of worms to hunt a population that is protected.

[Brad 49548]

Feel the need to clarify...

 

When I said for me "it's a tricky issue" I only meant reconciling how I feel about the question of hunting in general. As I said, in the case of what happened with Cecil it is unambiguous and clearly unethical.

[Metalsmith 2980]

This is an interesting situation.

 

An event has happened, it has been widely discussed on the internet, and the jury of the internet and public opinion have decreed that the side of the story which has been publicly released is true, and therefore the event was poaching and the perpetrator, and the supporter(s) are guilty.

 

Well and good.

 

There are 2 sides to every tale, and while facts may bear out the internet's version, I will wait to 'burn the witch' until he's had his day in court.

 

That said, if the purported facts are true, then this man is no hunter, he is, as with the 'hunter' in "Bambi" a Poacher (Bambi's mom was shot out of season...Bambi still had his spots.) His ability as a marksman is sincerely questionable since he only managed to wound the animal, but he is, in fact also a coward because instead of following, he waited 40 HOURS before trailing his wounded target, letting the animal suffer while he, no doubt, dug up an excuse for his poor accuracy with the bow.

 

I've stood 25 feet from a doe, with her yearling right beside her, and did not take the shot. It was beautiful to see them that close, and the fact that I was downwind of them, and the only sound I made was the thumping of my heart in my chest meant that they carried on with their evening stroll with nary a care, nor a thought that I was even there.

 

I've taken down coyotes, on my uncles cattle farm. There were 3 packs, and there were less when I left. He had lost 4 calves that week alone.

 

Is it wrong to kill a pest? No. Do you swat mosquitos?

 

Is it wrong to kill for food? No. I like my steak medium rare, my burgers well, and my bacon crispy. If you eat meat, well, it didn't grow on a tree, so by extension you support killing for food.

 

Is it wrong to participate in a managed trophy hunt? Now here, I'm not sure. I have friends that have paid big money to visit Africa, and have taken Wildebeast and other animals, but the $30,000 they spent went into building up the conservation area that they paid for access to. Would I do it? No. Do I think they were wrong? Hrm.

 

Is it wrong to poach? Absolutely. Punish to the full extent of the law.

 

Is it wrong to inflict cruelty on animals? Absolutely.

 

I'm sure we'll all disagree on some of this, but this is just what I think...I'm sure I'm putting myself out to be torn apart by public opinion here, but, well, I am entitled to my opinions. I cannot force them upon you.

 

MS

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

I get what you're saying, Brad. I too eat meat, although I try hard to just eat local meat. I tell myself that the locally raised animal in my area is treated better than at a factory farm like XL. I am willing to pay more for "humanely"(what a joke) treated meat.

 

I can't recall who said it but I remember someone saying "killing is a sin but eating helps wash the sin away" or something to that effect. Hunting for food is not a problem in my books. Killing an animal yourself might make you appreciate that sacrifice more than buying a steak at the grocers.

 

Maybe one day we'll all enjoy simulated meat.

[Kate von Katz 49953]

Maybe one day we'll all enjoy simulated meat.

 

Actually, this is closer than we think. A couple years ago they made lab-grown hamburger. But it was something outrageous like $10 000 for a burger's worth or meat. Fast forward to last week and it's down to $200. A couple more years and lab-grown meat might be a realistic alternative.

 

But, we digress. The issue at hand is hunting. And I think it's EXTREMELY important to differentiate between hunting threatened/endangered/protected species and hunting animals whose stocks are plentiful. As I've already mentioned, make sure people understand that there are different types of hunting practices (and sadly even big game is not always poaching as if you have enough dinero, many countries will issue a permit, even for protected/threatened/endangered species).

[cinelli 22184]

This dentist had a record for killing a bear out of the hunting area, something like 200 miles.

He lied about that so he may be lying about the lion hunt, blaming it all on the guides.

 

There are photos of him on imgur with his kills.

 

He has ahoto of himself with a rhino he just killed...how is that possible?

Rhinos are almost extinct and he is killing one?

To be proud of that just says he is a total a hole.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

This is an interesting situation.

 

An event has happened, it has been widely discussed on the internet, and the jury of the internet and public opinion have decreed that the side of the story which has been publicly released is true, and therefore the event was poaching and the perpetrator, and the supporter(s) are guilty.

 

Well and good.

 

There are 2 sides to every tale, and while facts may bear out the internet's version, I will wait to 'burn the witch' until he's had his day in court.

 

That said, if the purported facts are true, then this man is no hunter, he is, as with the 'hunter' in "Bambi" a Poacher (Bambi's mom was shot out of season...Bambi still had his spots.) His ability as a marksman is sincerely questionable since he only managed to wound the animal, but he is, in fact also a coward because instead of following, he waited 40 HOURS before trailing his wounded target, letting the animal suffer while he, no doubt, dug up an excuse for his poor accuracy with the bow.

 

I've stood 25 feet from a doe, with her yearling right beside her, and did not take the shot. It was beautiful to see them that close, and the fact that I was downwind of them, and the only sound I made was the thumping of my heart in my chest meant that they carried on with their evening stroll with nary a care, nor a thought that I was even there.

 

I've taken down coyotes, on my uncles cattle farm. There were 3 packs, and there were less when I left. He had lost 4 calves that week alone.

 

Is it wrong to kill a pest? No. Do you swat mosquitos?

 

Is it wrong to kill for food? No. I like my steak medium rare, my burgers well, and my bacon crispy. If you eat meat, well, it didn't grow on a tree, so by extension you support killing for food.

 

Is it wrong to participate in a managed trophy hunt? Now here, I'm not sure. I have friends that have paid big money to visit Africa, and have taken Wildebeast and other animals, but the $30,000 they spent went into building up the conservation area that they paid for access to. Would I do it? No. Do I think they were wrong? Hrm.

 

Is it wrong to poach? Absolutely. Punish to the full extent of the law.

 

Is it wrong to inflict cruelty on animals? Absolutely.

 

I'm sure we'll all disagree on some of this, but this is just what I think...I'm sure I'm putting myself out to be torn apart by public opinion here, but, well, I am entitled to my opinions. I cannot force them upon you.

 

MS

 

I think your post was quite balanced and well thought out. I agree, let's wait to "burn the witch" until he's had his day in court. Anyway, I prefer to focus on finding a solution rather than simply punishing the offender. Banning trophy hunting is a start. Even if it's legal, I'm against killing anything for sport. It is barbaric and satisfies a primitive urge that we shouldn't feed.

 

As for pests, like coyotes, I agree although I personally would like to see other methods used if possible but if it's for protection of your flock, that's understandable.

 

 

A cull to keep a population healthy is OK, provided it is done for the right reasons and properly executed. Nature is the best way to maintain balance but it can seem cruel to us.

 

I'm an animal lover and think we owe a duty not to abuse them. If we're in charge, let's be good stewards. You already understand this since you didn't take that shot.

[Phaedrus 209521]

A couple of things on this.

 

First up: yep, this guy is clearly an asshole. I say this because he quite obviously wanted to kill a lion, and quite obviously didn't care very much about the legality of what he was doing.

 

Second, on big game hunting in general: I don't think it's a bad thing, if properly managed. People pay a LOT of money for the license to kill something, and if that money goes back into National Parks and conservation and the prevention of poaching, then the transaction benefits the species as a whole. Of course, that makes a lot of assumptions about where the money goes, and the honesty of the people handling it, and the effectiveness of how it's spent... the point is that hunting isn't necessarily an unmitigated evil. And yes, I know that's not what happened in this case.

 

Third, a side point: this story matters to the affluent West, but apparently not very much inside Zimbabwe. Most folks there had never heard of Cecil the Lion, and those who had were generally less than impressed by the fact that he shared a name with Cecil Rhodes... who is closely associated with Zimbabwe's colonial past and is not, therefore, a figure of universal adoration in that country these days.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

A couple of things on this.

 

First up: yep, this guy is clearly an asshole. I say this because he quite obviously wanted to kill a lion, and quite obviously didn't care very much about the legality of what he was doing.

 

Second, on big game hunting in general: I don't think it's a bad thing, if properly managed. People pay a LOT of money for the license to kill something, and if that money goes back into National Parks and conservation and the prevention of poaching, then the transaction benefits the species as a whole. Of course, that makes a lot of assumptions about where the money goes, and the honesty of the people handling it, and the effectiveness of how it's spent... the point is that hunting isn't necessarily an unmitigated evil. And yes, I know that's not what happened in this case.

 

Third, a side point: this story matters to the affluent West, but apparently not very much inside Zimbabwe. Most folks there had never heard of Cecil the Lion, and those who had were generally less than impressed by the fact that he shared a name with Cecil Rhodes... who is closely associated with Zimbabwe's colonial past and is not, therefore, a figure of universal adoration in that country these days.

 

Thanks Phaedrus. I realize there are opposing views on this but I think killing a magnificent creature just because we can is wrong. Money doesn't make that right. Besides, there is far more money generated for those communities and conservation from safaris than big game hunting.

 

Zimbabwean's probably are too busy surviving and dealing with more urgent needs than to look up from the grindstone to see what is happening to a lion. That doesn't mean it's not important.

 

I don't think wild animals are cuddly and I realize nature can be cruel. I'm only speaking about people killing something solely for the sake of killing it. We can and should do better. I also think that the threats that Dentist received are not helpful.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

This guy is pathological. Plain and simple. Complete disregard for abiding by the rules and anything to do with authority. Sounds like a sociopath to me. Now he is a coward because he's in hiding and can't face the music. He is a total piece of crap and a waste of space on this earth.

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