Is it wrong to ask a SP for verification?

[RobertDion 142]

When you put it that way, you're only keeping away potentially good clients, and its' not doing anything to prevent the bad ones from coming through at all.

[RobertDion 142]

1 hour ago, Pamela Luscious said:

Uhhh… yeah, that’s the whole point. Even with screening, we are still at risk, but obviously we’re going to do our best to protect ourselves.

 

So your alternative is what? Just agree to meet anyone with a fake number, no deposit, no screening? Okay…

 

So who’s coming to see me then? How many actually show up? How many send threats or waste my time? ‘No face, no case’.

And as all hobbyist would surely agree, we expect nothing less for you all to protect yourselves. As I'm sure you've seen how the good ones act towards all of you -  we worship you.... we plan and wait and save and have butterflies in our stomachs like it's a first date at prom for most of us most of the time, we have the utmost respect, (is it upmost, or utmost?), it's our little 1,2,3 hour vacation, a peak luxury for us, we want nothing more than to see you all safe.

[Pamela Luscious 250]

27 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

When you put it that way, you're only keeping away potentially good clients, and its' not doing anything to prevent the bad ones from coming through at all.

The ignorance it funny at this point. You're getting these stats from where? Personal experience? Because clearly you're not getting this from actual sex workers.

 

 

We don’t care about ‘potential.’ We care about who books properly. True gentlemen read, screen, and send a deposit. The rest can move along. At the end of the day, we set the rules.

 

Whoever YOU consider a ‘good client’ isn’t necessarily a good client for someone who screens. As for ‘losing money,’ don’t worry about our wallets, we’re booked. Screening isn’t about punishing good clients. 

 

And let’s be clear: the most high-profile clients we see, CEOs, politicians, athletes, etc. have far more to lose than most, and they screen without hesitation. If they can respect the process, so can anyone else.

 

The only men who object are the ones trying to bypass screening, and that isn’t entitlement we reward.

[RobertDion 142]

Ah, so someone that goes through the screening process MUST be a 'good' client automatically? I wasn't aware it was 100% effective.

And yes, the hyperbole of "an SP gets murdered daily" wasn't you, sorry, for a second there I lumped you into that group, you weren't the one that had said that earlier.

Well, I'm glad those high profile gents trust you with that discretion and privacy, because no, obviously I didn't go out with a  questionnaire to all the SPs I ever met. But I've known several people who have had their privacy broken purely for reasons of profiting from the extortion. Albeit it was a while ago now. If you didn't notice there's a LOT more clients then there are SPs.

But I'm glad this system works for you.

Point still stands, (which you harshly call 'ignorance' now) is that someone asked 

'anyway to screen the SP?' -- heaven forbid, hobbyists try to find the right provider for them, and the best you have is "aww, boohoo, you should have done your research better, and you won't get screwed over" ---do you LOOK at all the ads out there? in 5 short years it's gone from 10% fake to 90% fake, and that's not an exaggeration.

[Pamela Luscious 250]

55 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

Well, that's it then, the alternative? Remember the time not long ago when there was no screenings? Even now, I'd say over 90% don't do screenings? It's not like it's this industry-wide standard. And i'm not saying "ahhh you suck cuz you ask for proof of ID" - not at all, I was just asking "sooooo how exactly does it make you safer?" Or it doesn't ?..... and it's just a habit for your peace of mind?

I'm just curious, what can we do to make things safer for you? What else can the non-threatening, non-violent, legitimately friendly, respectful and kind hobbyists do.... to keep you safe from the scum out there.

Sorry, that sounds sarcastic or condescending, it's not meant to, because really, truthfully--- How can the honest and non-harmful hobbyist protect you from the shitty ones that do the extremes as shown in your links?

If you admit you're still at risk, then aren't you exposing yourself to that double-satndard? Choosing to punish the innocent for the crimes of the crappy scumbags that intend to so you harm?

That makes sense to you, does it? Put the honest and respectuful hobbyist through the hoops and the maze to suss out those shitty ones?

•Even now, I'd say over 90% don't do screenings? 

-"90% don’t screen?" Then book them. You have options, so there’s no need to argue with those who do.

 

 

•I was just asking "sooooo how exactly does it make you safer?" Or it doesn't ?..... and it's just a habit for your peace of mind?

-We've explained it. You won't understand. The specific logistics aren’t your business.

 

•If you admit you're still at risk, then aren't you exposing yourself to that double-satndard? Choosing to punish the innocent for the crimes of the crappy scumbags that intend to so you harm?

-No. Good clients don’t feel punished, they get to spend time with us. they screen, book, and move forward. The only ones who feel punished are the ones trying to bypass screening, and they were never our clients to begin with.

[RobertDion 142]

I feel like this debate is similar to this ....

 

[Pamela Luscious 250]

2 hours ago, Pamela Luscious said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/murder-day-parole-eustachio-gallese-1.5439020

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/courtepatte-killer-also-guilty-of-prostitute-s-murder-1.1083335

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/serial-killer-robert-pickton-dead-1.7221260

 

 

2 hours ago, Pamela Luscious said:

Uhhh… yeah, that’s the whole point. Even with screening, we are still at risk, but obviously we’re going to do our best to protect ourselves.

 

7 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

Ah, so someone that goes through the screening process MUST be a 'good' client automatically? I wasn't aware it was 100% effective.

And yes, the hyperbole of "an SP gets murdered daily" wasn't you, sorry, for a second there I lumped you into that group, you weren't the one that had said that earlier.

Well, I'm glad those high profile gents trust you with that discretion and privacy, because no, obviously I didn't go out with a  questionnaire to all the SPs I ever met. But I've known several people who have had their privacy broken purely for reasons of profiting from the extortion. Albeit it was a while ago now. If you didn't notice there's a LOT more clients then there are SPs.

But I'm glad this system works for you.

Point still stands, (which you harshly call 'ignorance' now) is that someone asked 

'anyway to screen the SP?' -- heaven forbid, hobbyists try to find the right provider for them, and the best you have is "aww, boohoo, you should have done your research better, and you won't get screwed over" ---do you LOOK at all the ads out there? in 5 short years it's gone from 10% fake to 90% fake, and that's not an exaggeration.

•Ah, so someone that goes through the screening process MUST be a 'good' client automatically? I wasn't aware it was 100% effective.

-where did i say that? I even quoted myself.

 

•do you LOOK at all the ads out there? in 5 short years it's gone from 10% fake to 90% fake, and that's not an exaggeration.

-How is that our problem? You have more than enough tools other than leolist to find legit escorts. That’s a you problem.

 

Enjoy your podcast I'm not listening to that.

[RobertDion 142]

"We've explained it. You won't understand. The specific logistics aren’t your business."

Interesting, now we're getting somewhere, as mentioned by Manda earlier, some sort of "this is our business and our secret to keep" Hey all good to just say something like 'we have our ways, and we don't want to reveal why we do this because it does keep us safe' hahah I've given up my ID several times, but THIS answer of yours actually makes more sense, 'just accept it, this his how it is, it makes us feel safe, that's it, this is the process, there's no rhyme or reason, at least none that concern you'

Well, at least that's better than no answer at all. 

"No. Good clients don’t feel punished, they get to spend time with us. they screen, book, and move forward. "

That seems to suggest you DO reward those who accept screening without question. Don't you see how underhanded that could sound to some? So you now hold al the cards, you hold them by the balls, you can DESTROY their lives with ease now that YOU know THEIR identity, can go online and absolutely eviscerate them.... so are you saying this is a bit of a control thing, like the hobbyest is now meant to be remotely dominated and a cuck now that you hold their fate in their hands? That's the kink, even before any action happens?

What's stoping any SP from asking for this info then just cancelling and just collecting a small downpayment, the person's ID that you can then find out everything about them online and use that to take advantage of them?

Not saying you or anyone has or are, but just curious.... what is stopping you?

[RobertDion 142]

"The specific logistics aren’t your business."

Sounds like suspicious and ulterior motives there, doesn't it?

And you wonder why there's paranoia as to what you're doing with our IDs, with statements like that?

[Pamela Luscious 250]

7 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

"We've explained it. You won't understand. The specific logistics aren’t your business."

Interesting, now we're getting somewhere, as mentioned by Manda earlier, some sort of "this is our business and our secret to keep" Hey all good to just say something like 'we have our ways, and we don't want to reveal why we do this because it does keep us safe' hahah I've given up my ID several times, but THIS answer of yours actually makes more sense, 'just accept it, this his how it is, it makes us feel safe, that's it, this is the process, there's no rhyme or reason, at least none that concern you'

Well, at least that's better than no answer at all. 

"No. Good clients don’t feel punished, they get to spend time with us. they screen, book, and move forward. "

That seems to suggest you DO reward those who accept screening without question. Don't you see how underhanded that could sound to some? So you now hold al the cards, you hold them by the balls, you can DESTROY their lives with ease now that YOU know THEIR identity, can go online and absolutely eviscerate them.... so are you saying this is a bit of a control thing, like the hobbyest is now meant to be remotely dominated and a cuck now that you hold their fate in their hands? That's the kink, even before any action happens?

What's stoping any SP from asking for this info then just cancelling and just collecting a small downpayment, the person's ID that you can then find out everything about them online and use that to take advantage of them?

Not saying you or anyone has or are, but just curious.... what is stopping you?

I’ve invested tens of thousands into my business. branding, photoshoots, reviews, an active online presence. You think I’d throw all that away to scam some random Tom Dick and Harry with a couple grand in his bank account? Something i can make in a day...

 

Legit providers have reputations to uphold. That’s literally what keeps us booked. Destroying that for a deposit makes zero sense. Going online to ‘ruin clients’ doesn’t pay my bills. my work does.

[RobertDion 142]

If you want to just say "hey we want this, it gives us control, and that's just how it is, we hold the keys to the cuffs, just trust us that we'll set you free" then say it--- but don't be bullshitting around. Say it like it is.

[RobertDion 142]

Good point. You're in the severe minority in that respect though, most most most SPs have not invested that much time and money.

[Pamela Luscious 250]

11 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

"The specific logistics aren’t your business."

Sounds like suspicious and ulterior motives there, doesn't it?

And you wonder why there's paranoia as to what you're doing with our IDs, with statements like that?

So stay paranoid. You're not our clientèle anyway. Stay scared. We ain't here to change your mind. 

 

I'd be more scared booking someone with no screening. But hey, some people don't mind finding cops or theives in real life behind the door...

[Incog 1183]

7 hours ago, RobertDion said:

...And well put Manda, that's all true. It's just a shame the fear mongering needs to be implemented like this, good lord. There's a lot of over-thinking here 🙂

Well...I just got caught up on this thread over more than one cup of coffee...and while I'm sure I'll regret commenting at all, I am confident "over-thinking" is not the issue here...quite the opposite seemingly. 

 

The only "fear mongering" I recall reading above is coming from a client, who depsite claiming to have given out his ID more than once, has not done so in a manner that would prevent the use of a fake/alternate ID, which is easily achievable, as those who have followed a SW'ers suggested screening processes are well aware.

 

With very few exceptions, I "only" seek to spend time with obviously legitimate pro's who desire screening, for my own security & peace of mind, as much as theirs...the words "obviously legitimate" being paramount here.

 

I'm on board with @TommyRuss who said it best so far..."Can confirm those of us who follow the required booking process are treated to an amazing time!" This. All. Day.

 

The choice, & "power" is in fact, in my hands...screen as requested, and reap the rewards...or don't, and walk away...🤷‍♂️

 

Adding my two cents...the dead horse isn't much more than a stain on the highway at this point...

[MsManda 25841]

6 hours ago, RobertDion said:

Yes, but as the point was made; you're not seeing it from the other side. You're putting the cart before the horse in this respect. You can't play the victim and have it both ways too. Well, I suppose you CAN, but that's far from fair, or is the argument "yup, not fair for men, sucks to be you"? It's the hypocrisy of it all -- and the only answer is: "well this hobby isn't for you" --- Look, if YOU'RE the one claiming to put yourselves in harm's way, isn't that your choice? Yes, we'll never fully see it from your point of view, we're not you. The best we can do is imagine the strange, awkward, uncomfortable situations you find yourselves in all the time, we get it. But you're making things out like your clients are forcing you to do unfavourable things that you don't want to happen (and no, I'm not including meetings needing badly or violently or stalking or anything bad and negative like that), your ads go up, you literally place a value on yourselves, on your services, YOU do this, not us. And as many ads sometimes say "non-negotiable" and no one here is saying we want it to be.

So THIS is what becomes double-standards, do you see what happens to the GOOD and honest hobbyst who wants to todo the good thing and comply when he hands over his ID and that SP than uses that ID for something bad against that person? We are the ones finding the person we hope will give us the services we're looking for, correct? So what does that mean? Well, you're not using your real name, and if the hobbyst's intentions are BAD, will they use their own ID in order to pass through your screening process? No, he won't let's not pussyfoot around, let's not dance around what everyone wants to avoid as what this is. Cuckholding, hardcore BDSM/roleplay amongst two consenting adults aside, this is an exchange of funds for some pleasurable services.

"We could be preyed upon and stalked and other far worse things" Yes, we know this, but think about how one-sides you are making this, to preemptively do this process out of the fear of the worse thing to happen? Let's call this for what it is, we all know what's happening between two naked adults behind these closed doors as mentioned. So no more dancing around the subject. But like how gun laws does NOT stop the criminal who wants to get their hands on a weapon to murder someone, a screening process will not screen the bad individuals from the good ones. It places lots of personal information of that innocent hobbyist into the SP's hands. And all you have to say to me is "well, that's how it goes, that's the risk you take for being a hobbyist, sucks to be you". 

Asking for $50 deposit to secure a day and time is one thing, that makes sense, but to feel like its an inquisition where we have to go through hoops to get to the service/meeds we're looking for? When we ALL know that if the bad person wants to get through the screening process because of their ill intents they will NOT be using their real identity!! Put some thought into this scenario. WE are the ones seeking you out. Are YOU going on a website and combing through clients that you would like to hook up with? Reading their profile and info and then texting them and then setting up a date and time and wait for them to pay up and have them show up at your door? Nope, that's not how this works. Are you the one saving your money, waiting for your favorite SP to come to town? No.

All I'm saying is, its a shame that the bad experiences you've had, or perhaps not you, but the bad ones that friends or acquaintances of yours have had, makes it so you feel the need to do this process - and that is what you need to feel safe. In cold hard reality (sorry to break it to you) it will not keep you anymore safe than before, not even by 1%. For any SP who's had a potential client ghost them after you've asked them for there ID and/or references, you've probably thought to yourself "Ha, well, they weren't worth it anyways, I just sussed out a potential creep/stalker/nefarious person, mission accomplished".

I assure you, that maybe 1%, yes, but the other 99% were people like the rest of us, the majority of us who though to themselves "huh? why so I expose myself? so your friend or you yourself save that to use against me later, no thank you." and you lose out on what would have been a mutually friendly and beneficial meet up.

And I feel for you, I really do, for you or anyone that's had to go through any negative experience due to any creep or something out of the true crime novels/podcasts you read/hear, but it's just sad that we have to go through this. For two seconds - look at it from our point of view, there's plenty of willing vulnerability on our part in this back and forth we do as well. It's been illustrated in these forums on here and the DMs I've gotten about hobbyists getting screwed over, sometimes by highly reputable SPs as well, and yes I'm not just talking about low quality or bait-and-switch scenario, but as eluded earlier, the whole blackmail thing, as well, and yes, it's rare I'm sure in the grand scheme of things if we're to talk statistics in terms of the thousands of encounters happening daily/weekly, how many end up really badly for one or the other. Was it just last month some one on here said they almost got mugged by the pimp they didn't even know she had?

It does help when Manda mentioned the whole thing about "Statistically, people just fuck around less  if you know who they are irl. That's well studied and documented across many situations, not just sw. "

I hadn't thought of that in that way. It makes sense. And maybe it's paranoia on our part from seeing how governments or agencies sell you info online, how cell companies and health care companies just dump all your personal info online for the lowest bidder that makes it seem like an automatic red flag when your asked to send a photos of your driver's licence, spider-senses go off, and you think to yourself "why?"

But this whole thing of "well if you can't handle a screening process, maybe this hobby isn't for you" statements, is just a cop out, and avoiding the issue at hand. SPs protecting themselves from the scum that might be out there by having the other 99% (non-scumy hobbyists) be potentially treated like they're criminals (just in case) .... isn't exactly too progressive.

Assuming the worse... FIRST? And acting upon false assumptions... and these "what ifs"? is NOT painting your clients in a glowing light. NO hobbyist wants to enter an arrangement where he gets the sense that there's this underlying contempt or resentment happening towards them or this feeling that there's this subtle (or not-so-subtle) hatred towards men happening.

They weren't what ifs.. 

They happened, or we wouldn't have learned to implement more screening. 

Hell, I've even been on a local true crime podcast describing what happens to us, if you want a local perspective that I don't have to type out for you 🙄

 

You're wasting a lot of words to miss the point, Robert 

[MsManda 25841]

6 hours ago, RobertDion said:

When you put it that way, you're only keeping away potentially good clients, and its' not doing anything to prevent the bad ones from coming through at all.

The best clients screen and follow the booking practices of their chosen provider. It's that simple

 

This might weed out some nice people, but it's also weeded out so much bs for me personally, I have no regrets

 

I'm still busy enough to be able to pick and choose from the pool of screened and verified guests who contact me, and decide who I want to see or not, for whatever arbitrary reason I choose 

 

I get less abuse, blackmail, threats, drama, people showing up without appts, etc, because of this. You don't have to like it, but it does protect us, in many ways

 

You don't have to believe what we tell you, and we don't have to book anyone that makes us uncomfortable, for any reason, screening or not. 

Idk why that's so hard to grasp

 

 

[MsManda 25841]

4 hours ago, RobertDion said:

Good point. You're in the severe minority in that respect though, most most most SPs have not invested that much time and money.

Youre just insulting, at this point

 

Most established sps (with pro photos) HAVE indeed done this 🙄

 

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31804]

This is WILD ... 

 

Thankyou to those gentlemen that respect our time and booking procedures because this is too much

[RobertDion 142]

3 hours ago, MsManda said:

Youre just insulting, at this point

 

Most established sps (with pro photos) HAVE indeed done this 🙄

 

Huh? Insulting? that's just stating facts, just look at all the ads out there, all I'm saying is 'good for her', for real, to put in that time and energy and commitment, obviously. But don't live in a bubble and think ALL SPs have done ALL the same tremendous amount of work for self-promoting -- do you not see and look at the slew of ads out there? They're not all 5-star, professional photo sessions and fancy fill-out forms.

At the end of the day it's been made clear "it's none of our business what you do with our real identities and personal info, but to trust you all that it's purely for personal safety reasons"

That's a more honest answer than the BS stated before, because as we proved, it made no sense, holding our info for possible ransom out of contempt for the small percentage of creeps out there that have done you wrong before -- why? because it's a nasty way for us go about this.

[RobertDion 142]

Look up at what started this convo:

Is it wrong to ask a SP for verification?

The reaction from SPs taking offence to this was what raised some concerns.

And apologies for dragging this out, but see how much it took to kinda get you both to see how very sus it can be to hear that 'yes, it's mostly a power play'. And saying "just accept it, this is what we have learned that needs toto get done to make this happen!" doesn't really fill us with much confidence that this process won't be used against us --not all SPs have big fancy websites and not all of us are CEOs and politicians -- whether its high class/upper class clients or down to the lower/middle class - it's an act of power and control on your part, and that's fine, but to beat around the bush and pretend it's otherwise is disingenuous. 

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31804]

34 minutes ago, RobertDion said:

Look up at what started this convo:

Is it wrong to ask a SP for verification?

The reaction from SPs taking offence to this was what raised some concerns.

And apologies for dragging this out, but see how much it took to kinda get you both to see how very sus it can be to hear that 'yes, it's mostly a power play'. And saying "just accept it, this is what we have learned that needs toto get done to make this happen!" doesn't really fill us with much confidence that this process won't be used against us --not all SPs have big fancy websites and not all of us are CEOs and politicians -- whether its high class/upper class clients or down to the lower/middle class - it's an act of power and control on your part, and that's fine, but to beat around the bush and pretend it's otherwise is disingenuous. 

Just don't book with anyone! So you don't have to worry about what anyone does with your information, problem solved🤷‍♀️🙄

[AdamSandler 273]

2 hours ago, RobertDion said:

Look up at what started this convo:

Is it wrong to ask a SP for verification?

The reaction from SPs taking offence to this was what raised some concerns.

And apologies for dragging this out, but see how much it took to kinda get you both to see how very sus it can be to hear that 'yes, it's mostly a power play'. And saying "just accept it, this is what we have learned that needs toto get done to make this happen!" doesn't really fill us with much confidence that this process won't be used against us --not all SPs have big fancy websites and not all of us are CEOs and politicians -- whether its high class/upper class clients or down to the lower/middle class - it's an act of power and control on your part, and that's fine, but to beat around the bush and pretend it's otherwise is disingenuous. 

I'm going to regret posting I'm sure...

 

It's not only a power play. You are undermining and underestimating how at risk providers are. Again as stated multiple times if you don't want to do it then don't. 

Asking for ID tends to make people behave better then when they are anonymous.

Having someone's ID also means if there is an issue like assault the provider has the clients real info to take to the police instead of "well he told me his name was X but it's probably fake."

 

Those are two pretty understandable reasons. Now I would hope that an SP would delete your ID and not keep a record of it after you see them and all goes well but I don't know and assume most probably keep it for some time at least. You have to decide if that is worth the risk when you go to book. 

 

And to the original topic I think it's fine to ask for verification for lesser known providers who only post on LL. The providers with websites, reviews, active social media, etc you shouldn't ask because you can verify yourself through those channels.