A bbbj talk.

[Alyssa Staxxx 4412]

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm

 

http://sexualhealthontario.ca/

 

http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsf...sexsafesex.htm

 

To all the beautiful and wonderful ladies and gentlemen:

 

Please do not take any of my posts as judgmental...this is a discussion and everyone can absolutely do their own research and have their own opinion AND practice at their own acceptable levels of risk.

[Old Dog 179138]

Allow me, if you will, to make my final statement in regard to this and the other thread started.

 

Everyone has their own private and public thoughts on the matter. Their opinions and the information that they offer may run in direct contradiction to what you may or may not believe.

 

It's great that we can have a frank debate about this matter, but please... if you are going to counter an argument, counter the facts on the table rather than the person presenting them.

 

There is absolutely no reason to conduct a personal attack against anyone in this open forum. It detracts from the central issue, diminishes an argument and demeans both the poster and the intended recipient. It serves no value in this or any other thread.

 

We thrive as a community because we can discuss things here that we can't discuss in the vanilla world. CERB empowers us to conduct these discussions and for that we should all be grateful. The one thing, the tenet that this board was founded upon, was respectful dialogue.

 

I encourage everyone to look up to the black bar at the top of the screen. Every time you post, take a look at that bar. If what you say doesn't conform with the words in that bar, erase them... and keep erasing them until you have the ability to communicate politely.

 

... if you do not have anything nice to say, please don't say anything at all.

 

That's from the Gospel according to St. Mod 3:29

[Macdog45 110]

I prefer cbj. I feel alot safer with a sp that does not offer bbbj. Lets keep it safe and clean.

[Befuzzled 752]

I added a vote to the "don't care" pile. For me, a bbbj is absolutely the best feeling in the world. My fear of unwanted consequences and overly complicated explanations overrides the desire to achieve that feeling in this realm however. It would definitely be a deal breaker in my day to day life with personal relationships but not something I am entirely comfortable seeking in a hobbiest sense. As a result I tend to stick to massage experiences but in choosing a service provider I would not shy away from one who offers bbbj as long as she is okay with cbj as well.

[Guest]

Let's take a look at some of the risks that are involved in partaking in and giving a sexual service. As stated before on these threads, it's different levels of risks. This is something everyone should be thinking about when partaking in escorting or even having sex with people outside the sexual community. I still don't have charts of how these risks are ranked and would appreciate it if someone could find a chart that might have this information on it. When I was doing my research Y.M.M.V.(your mileage may vary) kept coming to my mind about the information about kissing, digits and even about oral sex. I just wanted to focus on foreplay or the things we do before sex. If I missed something or if something is wrong please post some facts to share with everyone. I have pasted my opinion along with opinions of others from the threads I have posted here

 

 

Kissing

 

 

http://www.health.arizona.edu/health_topics/sexual_health/kissing.htm

 

 

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/hiv-kissing

 

 

It seems like kissing is a very low risk activity. It would seem that the only cause for concern would be open sores from herpes. In both articles it says to avoid kissing anyone with sores on their mouth. However, even tho H.I.V. is a very low, low risk, you can catch H.I.V. blood to blood contact. So if both partners have cuts on their moth this can be a possibility no matter how low the risk is.

 

 

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) considers open-mouth kissing low-risk for transmitting HIV, especially if both partners are without sores or cuts on the mouth or lips. Saliva has certain proteins that make it an extremely poor carrier of HIV. As a result, kissing, sucking, and licking the lips, mouth, and tongue are basically safe."

 

 

"Blood, however, is an ideal carrier for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, and if anybody's blood enters the equation (or a mouth), things can get more complicated. The CDC has reported one case that suggests a woman contracted HIV through exposure to her partner's contaminated blood during open-mouth kissing. If an infected partner has blood in his or her mouth, an open-mouth kiss could lead to transmission of the virus through the other partner's mucous membrane lining the inside of the mouth. If the receiving partner has mouth or lip abrasions (i.e., serious gum disease, cuts, open sores, cold sores), the virus has a better chance of being absorbed. Since extended periods of oral exploration can potentially damage the mouth and lips, causing such abrasions, the CDC recommends against open-mouthed kissing with an HIV-positive partner."

 

 

Fingering/hand jobs

 

 

http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/f/fingering.htm

 

 

http://gayteens.about.com/od/safesexstds/f/std_hand_job.htm

 

 

http://www.thebody.com/content/2308/frequently-asked-questions-about-hivaids.html?getPage=3#fingering

 

 

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Could-I-have-contracted-STD-through-kissing-and-touching/show/503455

 

 

It would seem that fingering/hand jobs are fairly safe. It is important to keep your hands clean and very important to not touch your genitals and then touch your partners genitals(it's very rare case to catch a bug this way). The main thing the articles explain is to watch out for cuts, open wounds or sores because H.I.V. can again be transferred by blood to blood contact. So if you have a cut and they have a cut then....

 

 

"For example, if you were to get vaginal secretions directly in a fresh open cut on your hands, there would be a possibility of infection. But there would be an even greater possibility of infection if vaginal secretions were to get onto a mucous membrane like the mouth or the head of the penis. So don't panic if you get vaginal secretions or semen on your hands. The skin on your hands is much thicker than the linings made of mucous membranes. The thicker the skin, the less the chance for abrasions and

cuts.

 

 

Fingering is normally not a high risk activity for HIV. All anyone can say is that if there is a fresh open cut on the finger, see above), then there would be some risk of infection if blood, semen, or vaginal secretions had a direct access to that opening. But the risk is less than intercourse or giving oral sex. That's all anybody could ever say on this issue. It is normally a low risk activity for HIV."

 

Blow jobs/vaginal oral sex.

 

 

http://aids.about.com/cs/safesex/a/oralsex.htm

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm

 

 

http://www.healthcentral.com/genital-herpes/c/18559/69243/shaving

 

 

http://www.thestdproject.com/stds-shaving-waxing-vajazzling/

 

 

The experts are constantly saying that oral sex is a low risk activity on their threads but in cases people have been known to catch something(lower than vaginal or anal sex). The way a lady can catch a bug through receiving oral is if she has cuts on her vagina and if her partner has has bleeding gums(which can go undetected sometimes, flossing teeth can cause this) or by open sores. The way a lady can catch something by giving oral is through per-ejaculation and of course cuts/sores(blood to blood contact), but it states it is an extremely lower risk than vaginal or anal sex. Now, a good thing to think about is most of us shave or wax our little kitty and when we do this we create little cuts down there. I don't know how long it takes for these cuts to fully heal but it might be the same kind of idea as flossing your teeth before sex. I can understand that oral sex would have more risks due to genital secretions, however, it seems like the experts are saying that there's nothing to be alarmed of. They are, however, saying that it is a good idea to use a condoms and or dental dams to increase your safety but it is your personal choice to use them or not.

 

 

"Oral-Penile Contact (fellatio)

 

 

Theoretical Risk:With fellatio, there is a theoretical risk of transmission for the receptive partner because infected pre-ejaculate ("pre-cum") fluid or semen can get into the mouth. For the insertive partner there is a theoretical risk of infection because infected blood from a partner's bleeding gums or an open sore could come in contact with a scratch, cut, or sore on the penis.

 

 

Documented Risk: Although the risk is many times less than anal or vaginal sex, HIV has been transmitted to receptive partners through fellatio, even in cases when insertive partners didn't ejaculate."

 

 

"Oral-Vaginal Contact (cunnilingus)

 

 

Theoretical Risk:Cunnilingus carries a theoretical risk of HIV transmission for the insertive partner (the person who is licking or sucking the vaginal area) because infected vaginal fluids and blood can get into the mouth. (This includes, but is not limited to, menstrual blood). Likewise, there is a theoretical risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus for the receptive partner (the person who is having her vagina licked or sucked) if infected blood from oral sores or bleeding gums comes in contact with vulvar or vaginal cuts or sores.

 

 

Documented Risk:The risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus is extremely low compared to vaginal and anal sex. However, there have been a few cases of HIV transmission most likely resulting from oral-vaginal sex."

 

 

"Oral Sex and the Risk of HIV Transmission

 

 

The risk of HIV transmission from an infected partner through oral sex is much less than the risk of HIV transmission from anal or vaginal sex. Measuring the exact risk of HIV transmission as a result of oral sex is very difficult. Additionally, because most sexually active individuals practice oral sex in addition to other forms of sex, such as vaginal and/or anal sex, when transmission occurs, it is difficult to determine whether or not it occurred as a result of oral sex or other more risky sexual activities. Finally, several co-factors may increase the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex, including: oral ulcers, bleeding gums, genital sores, and the presence of other STDs. What is known is that HIV has been transmitted through fellatio, cunnilingus, and anilingus."

 

"Other STDs Can Also Be Transmitted From Oral Sex

 

In addition to HIV, other STDs can be transmitted through oral sex with an infected partner. Examples of these STDs include herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, genital warts (HPV), intestinal parasites (amebiasis), and hepatitis A."

[mhzq88 140]

i dont prefer it but there are some times when i actually want a BBBJ. so i have to look for someone who provides.

[Old Dog 179138]

[Guest]

I added more facts to the bbfs thread. Post number 105 if you would like to read it click the link below.

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126321&page=11

[Guest t****ster***ke]

many hobbyists tend to not be honest in their answers in these forums and rather tend to only say things that make SPs feel good or strengthen them in this business.

 

very true. not to say there is a big "bare back" community, but i have a feeling any of the guys who prefer unprotected interactions are keeping their mouths shut, as to not get black-listed by certain sp's.

[OGson 178]

bbbj > anything provided my a sp

[fortunateone 156618]

Baileydog,

 

Interesting perspective, and I agreed right up to the last statement. What I have found about this thread is that those that prefer to be safer, are being overly critical of those that are willing to take the risks. I haven't re-read everything in here, but I don't recall many/any being critical of those that want to play safe, save for some comments about lowering the price since the service was reduced.

 

 

As a safe cbj provider, I have to disagree with this, mostly because I find and have found that I have to justify and prove my choice a lot more often than the bbbj provider has to.

 

I actually don't feel like I should have to defend myself for stating the facts, and then turn around and have yet another person not actually read the risk chart which is fairly obvious and not biased account of what actually happens, tell me that I am wrong about the risks lol.

 

If someone tells me they do it with full knowledge of the risks fine, but when they tell me they do it because they claim to not 'like' the taste of condoms I have to say that's marketing BS because it is a really lame reason, imo.

[PistolPete 61421]

From the middle of this thread, and,

As I'm reading this thread in my hotel room down south away of vacation. This topic comes up just about every year (BBBJ) I would like to think, firstly and most importantly that everyone gets themselves tested regularly without fail if you participate regularly in the hobby.

 

Secondly it is the 'control' of the service provider of what she is 'providing' not ever to be forced into providing a service because of what? supply and demand ? Everyone has their choices in this lifestyle, and no one should ever pressured into doing something they do not want to do.

 

When I contact a provider the only question I ever ask, if she allows DFK never the topic of CBJ or BBBJ, as I get older I look for the sensuality,erotic play,the GFE experience the hugging,chatting the love making, as I say most times "I'm not about wham bam thank-you mam"

 

For me it is the "COMPANIONSHIP" regardless if it is a BBBJ or CBJ

[fortunateone 156618]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that you'd prefer BBFS over BBBJ, since you can only contract gonorrhea through intercourse? Of course herpes can also be contracted through intercourse, and blowjobs, so two more chances of contracting that.

 

 

um, what??

[PistolPete 61421]

I find this comment, not be true at all. As I said, its up to the provider on service, and I never have been black listed for THEIR choice. I have read this thread and many other threads from years back, therefore to say that some gents will be black listed is nonsense. There is health clinics, there are doctors to get yourself checked regularly if participate regularly in DFK,DATY,CBJ,BBBJ or what have you.

To say the gents are not talking on this thread because of a result of being black listed is ludicrous. Then what the SP's that offer BBBJ are going to black listed by gents??

And what is this "bare back community" A new social group? Really??? It is a service offered not a community!

 

 

 

 

very true. not to say there is a big "bare back" community, but i have a feeling any of the guys who prefer unprotected interactions are keeping their mouths shut, as to not get black-listed by certain sp's.

[fortunateone 156618]

Interesting points about condoms and lube. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of providers are absolutely paranoid about mixing lube with condoms! Most will not put lube on a penis before sliding the shield on. Some of them believe that depending on the lube, it might eat through the rubber creating breakages. Others believe that the condom can slip off if it is too lubricated on the inside. I don't know how true those beliefs are but they do contribute to the general dislike of condoms. I myself have said in the past that I'd rather have a bareback handjob than any kind of a covered blowjob.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should direct these providers to the STI health nurse or experts. I can't remember the last time any expert said to not use lube in the condom, in fact everything I had read or seen says that it is recommended. It helps not just with sensation, but helps the integrity of the condom to not get breakage.

 

I can't imagine an sp not finding out the facts about this.

 

What they can NOT use is oils or oil based lotions in this manner.

 

Additional Comments:

I was also going to say that the topic originally was about bbbjs in general, and also about asking do sps feel pressured to provide them. I take this also to apply to sps who provide them due to this pressure as well as sps who do not provide them being pestered for them even after they have said it is not available.

 

If every second enquiry is asking if bbbjs are available, any sp is eventually going to figure out that if the answer was 'yes' every time, she'd most likely get more appointments. It also reminded me, when someone said that cbjs should cost less than bbbjs, well, here's the thing, out here at least. bj only sessions tend to be not just the cheapest service available, they are most often done bbbj. 40 bucks, 50, maybe 60, come in, get off, get out. So how much less is a cbj only session supposed to cost?

 

 

Another thought came to me reading some of the comments here, which basically is if you as a client do not want an sp to provide bbbjs only because she feels pressured to do so (not that she would ever let you know that), then stop asking for them. When you contact her, don't ask, just accept what is provided. If she offers it, turn her down and ask for a cbj.

 

If you really are uncomfortable with an sp's motives for providing any higher risk activity, then be that guy who doesn't do it, doesn't ask for it, doesn't accept it. See what happens.

 

And fwiw, lets see what happens to the laws around prostitution in Canada. Licensing is getting to be more common, regulations of the business may not be far behind. If/when that happens, you can bet the number one thing covered by regulations is Occupational Health and Safety, and there is no way that uncovered services of any kind is going to be allowed, meaning only that if it is it won't be advertised and it won't be something people can ask for before showing up for the appointment. (given that services that are not permitted will likely still be available that is, what should change is what is in ads)

[Guest]

[whiteman 14028]

Perhaps you should direct these providers to the STI health nurse or experts. I can't remember the last time any expert said to not use lube in the condom, in fact everything I had read or seen says that it is recommended. It helps not just with sensation, but helps the integrity of the condom to not get breakage.

 

I can't imagine an sp not finding out the facts about this.

 

What they can NOT use is oils or oil based lotions in this manner.

Well, my original question was asking why this is happening, not if this is happening. I wouldn't have asked the question if I hadn't noticed the trend myself. Not only are providers avoiding putting lube on before the condom, they will also go so far as to wipe any pre-existing lube off before putting a condom on! Is it because they're all using silicon-based lube rather than water-based? If silicon lube is so incompatible with condoms, then why are they still being sold? I think the problem is that many SP's simply don't know what type of lube that they're using, and therefore they don't want to take a chance and just wipe it off by default. Obviously, I'm not talking about you or any of the other ladies in here, I'm sure you're all completely aware of the products that you're using, but there are many out there that don't.

 

Additional Comments:

I was also going to say that the topic originally was about bbbjs in general, and also about asking do sps feel pressured to provide them. I take this also to apply to sps who provide them due to this pressure as well as sps who do not provide them being pestered for them even after they have said it is not available.

Well actually, the other poll showed that the clear majority (52%) of SP's are providing BBBJ's and aren't doing it because they're being pressured by someone, it's just that they like doing it, much like many clients tend to like to do DATY. It's just a fun, natural part of the activity, in their minds.

 

10% said that they don't provide any BBBJ's, and they're not feeling any pressure to do it either. 19% said they aren't providing BBBJ's, but are feeling a pressure from customers to do it. And then the remaining 19% are providing BBBJ's and have somehow felt pressured into providing it.

[Hector17 9215]

I am surprised this is still going on and on and on....

After I read Emilys' blog, I didn't need to read anymore on the subject. She is eloquent and insightful.

[Guest t****ster***ke]

I find this comment, not be true at all. As I said, its up to the provider on service, and I never have been black listed for THEIR choice. I have read this thread and many other threads from years back, therefore to say that some gents will be black listed is nonsense. There is health clinics, there are doctors to get yourself checked regularly if participate regularly in DFK,DATY,CBJ,BBBJ or what have you.

To say the gents are not talking on this thread because of a result of being black listed is ludicrous. Then what the SP's that offer BBBJ are going to black listed by gents??

And what is this "bare back community" A new social group? Really??? It is a service offered not a community!

 

i think you have seriously misinterpreted my quote. i am sorry it has upset you, but your words do not match the content of my post. i am sorry if you disagree with anything i've said here, but it was merely an observation, prefaced by "i have a feeling ...", which inherently implies it is simply my opinion and not a statement of fact.

[hola123 160]

The majority of supposedly reputable agencies in Toronto put on the pressure and tell SP's when they are hired that they must provide BBBJ or they won't have clients. I'm told that the Toronto market makes it impossible to work consistantly unless an SP is "Full" GFE. I think it's terrible for an SP, who would rather work through an agency than be independant, have this kind of unsafe restriction put upon her.

 

Thoughts anyone?

[whiteman 14028]

The majority of supposedly reputable agencies in Toronto put on the pressure and tell SP's when they are hired that they must provide BBBJ or they won't have clients. I'm told that the Toronto market makes it impossible to work consistantly unless an SP is "Full" GFE. I think it's terrible for an SP, who would rather work through an agency than be independant, have this kind of unsafe restriction put upon her.

 

Thoughts anyone?

Massage? Dancing?

[Hector17 9215]

Massage? Dancing?

 

Well said...

 

HOLA mentions that he has heard that bbbj is overwhelmingly the choice by gents in Toronto, and then suggests the lady is "pressured" by the agencyto offer it?

 

I would think an agency has a lot of data based on the numbers of calls, questions asked, and requests made, and may be simply giving it straight to the lady about how busy she can expect to be if she offers restricted services.

There is not a lot of point in having her on their roster, their getting photos, advertising her etc when they know they will have a smaller pool of clientele they can match her with.

If they took her on, aware of her restriction, and then tried to change her, that's a different story.

[SamanthaEvans 166768]

The majority of supposedly reputable agencies in Toronto put on the pressure and tell SP's when they are hired that they must provide BBBJ or they won't have clients. I'm told that the Toronto market makes it impossible to work consistantly unless an SP is "Full" GFE. I think it's terrible for an SP, who would rather work through an agency than be independant, have this kind of unsafe restriction put upon her.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Without knowing which agencies are being referred to, it's hard to know how to respond to your post. Not all agencies put their staff's interests first. When someone else is taking the calls and deciding who to send out, it's very difficult to know how you're being represented and how they deal with potential clients in general.

 

I've never worked for an agency. What When I was working in Toronto, I was as busy as I wanted to be, made a good income, and didn't offer bbbjs. Yes, some clients asked for it, but most were happy with what I offered.

[Naughtynoll 881]

BBBJ is not required, I like it of course, but it's not needed, a cbj can be just as good, and it feels pleasurable though different. I am very concerned about the lady and what she feels comfortable with. Whichever they offer is fine.

[hornydogottawa 110]

Other survey option could include: I enjoy bbbj but only if both parties are comfortable with it

 

Regarding your question about GFE and if its mandatory for bbbj as part of GFE ... I would probably say yes. GFE is about full intimacy for me and cbj is typically not that.