"Cheating"? non-fs

[Inthevalley 220]

Hey Canada, I'm trying to see how most guys feel about the whole massage/reverse,(non fs) while having a "significant other.

 

I know that when I indulged too far into fs whilst living with a girlfriend, I felt pretty guilty. Though when it comes to just massage/reverse I feel relatively good about myself. Like I somehow found a way to fend off the instinct to have sex as much as possible.

 

Though jerking is cheaper : ) am I right? Lol

 

Some will feel different; opposed to "cheating" entirely, understand the need for that extra gratification and those who just go with the flow.

 

Thoughts please

[Guest c**io**m7]

It all is a personal belief and each individual would have to ask himself, "what is cheating?"

 

For me personally, when I think just purely of the sensuality of a non-fs massage experience and the perceived connection on the massage table, yes, it is a form of cheating and is no less cheating than being with a fs SP.

 

But again, this is just this one man's non-judgemental opinion.

[piano8950 32577]

Do what feels right for you. Everyone has a different definition of what constitutes cheating.

 

My limit has always been to stop if I was with someone. But there are circumstances that I haven't experienced which seems to be the driving force of why some men are here.

[6dave9 4008]

May I bring forward this thread, which I believe might help with the subject that many of us has contemplated..

Thanks

D.

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=142629

[Brad 49548]

I'm not sure I would agree that every individual has to decide for themselves, but I would say every couple (or polyamourous group) does.

 

It all depends on what has been explicitly or implicitly agreed upon, and where the line is drawn will be different for every relationship.

 

For some couples, having an orgy with strangers may not be cheating if it's been agreed on. Sometimes certain rules or restrictions may be in place. One couple may say it's OK to be intimate with someone as long as both partners are present or have been told. Another might say anything goes except unprotected sex.

 

On the other side, simply going to a exotic dance club, or even regular dancing with another person could be considered cheating if that's the boundary you and your partner established upon entering the relationship.

 

Now, what could count as justifiable reasons for a person to cheat is another topic entirely and I'm certainly not looking to judge anyone here. But if you're doing something at all sexual that you know your partner wouldn't approve of and realistically assumes you've agreed not to do, then it is what it is.

[Inthevalley 220]

Great replies. I kind of have a black and white view of "cheating".

 

You're partner doesn't know and you know that they would be pissed off if they found out.

 

That would be a "cheating" definition in my dictionary.

 

That being said my grey area is.

 

Thinking that you're partner would not be AS pissed if it was a massage, rather than a full on sp.

 

Possibly not pissed enough that your house, car and dog don't disappear the next day. : 0

[moj0llama 600]

Well, what would your girlfriend think if she found out? Would she consider it cheating? If yes, then it probably is cheating.

 

Think about it this way, if my girlfriend(I'm single its just an example) got fingered by a guy, and I found out about it, I would absolutely call it cheating, and I would be at a loss for words if she justified it as "Well he didn't put his dick in me so lol its not actually real cheating".

 

Now, I'm not saying I know what is going on in your relationship, but if you are concerned about this, I can infer that she would have a problem with it if you are trying to find ways to justify it.

 

My advice is honesty. I don't know how much you want to indulge about seeing SP's being her back, but tell her you like that sort of thing, maybe she's interested in what you like, and you guys can see a SP who does couples?

[Frank7 3939]

Unless you have your SO's permission, then yes it's cheating. That's the definition of the word.

 

Is it ok to cheat and in what circonstances, that's something you have to answer for yourself.

 

Like moj0llama, i'd suggest honnesty. Check with her if she's okay with it.

[Guest P*rry]

Inthevalley: I identify with your views.

 

I tend to go with the flow and leave the sense of guilt behind. The sense comes and goes, I must admit.

[Athos 108589]

May I bring forward this thread, which I believe might help with the subject that many of us has contemplated..

Thanks

D.

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=142629

 

Or this one:

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=154823

 

 

or this one:

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=117678

 

Porthos

[volvolater 657]

Unless you subscribe to the Bill Clinton school of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!", then yes, it's cheating I'm afraid.

 

Now, why you need or want to justify it to yourself is an entirely different discussion which only you (and Bill) can truly delve into and understand, but don't try and kid yourself if you are hiding something from your SO and are also certain that he or she would disapprove at a minimum.

 

I'm not being judgmental here, that is for you and your SO should you choose to tell her. And, just for the record, I know that I am cheating each and every time I contact one of the lovely ladies here, never mind go see them.

[pembud 250]

I agree with the post above that if you don't have your SO's permission then it is probably cheating. With that said, if it was only up to my opinion, I would say if you are paying for it then it isn't cheating, it's just like going to the restaurant instead of eating at home!! Unfortunately my SO would not see it like that so I have to live with the guilt instead.

[fortunateone 156618]

I provide FS and nonFS hj only sessions, and from some clients it is the line in the sand they don't want to go past due to SOs.

 

Since some guys go all FS, and some guys who only do FS with higher risk activities, and another group wants bj only, nothing else, I think it is kind of considerate really that a guy is choosing a particular service for moral reasons like what he considers cheating versus not cheating on the spouse.

 

it is one of the lowest risk activities as well, so to me the consideration he is including the lower risk of bringing something home, which is also nice.

 

Maybe my morality compass is skewed way too far to one side, but it seems like an honest desire to not cause harm?

[MightyPen 67414]

Maybe my morality compass is skewed way too far to one side, but it seems like an honest desire to not cause harm?

I agree that avoiding FS shows some attempt to manage the risks of seeing an SP or MA.

 

That said, though, if the question is "is act X cheating?" then the only answer is: what would your significant other say? If she would say it is... then it is. Where the guy's own preferred boundaries fall doesn't really matter when it comes to assessing the potential damage of X to his relationship with another person.

 

Now, having established that, a guy might still have reasons why, despite the act being cheating, he still finds it appropriate for him to go ahead. That's cool. Grown-up lives come in all shapes and sizes, and maybe that decision is right for him in those circumstances.

 

But unless a couple has agreed ahead of time that escort visits are cool, then the guy who says "aw, c'mon, this doesn't really count... right?" is just fooling himself, or trying to avoid taking responsibility for the decision he's really making.

[Guest S*rca****sid]

I agree with a lot of what people have said here. I would add, how would you feel if your significant other was doing the same thing and you found out about it later?

[bcguy42 38594]

I come from a different era so these things are both simpler and more complicated. I personally don't consider what I and an SP or MA do together to be cheating. Since generally we are the only one's present, that takes care of that. Look up "situational ethics". I am aware that someone else, you for example, would consider it cheating. With all due respect, to quote Rhett Butler in "Gone With the Wind", "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." You are not me.

 

Would my SO think of it as cheating? Most likely. That's why I go to great lengths to prevent her from being there.

 

In the true spirit of YMMV, it works for me.

[roamingguy 300291]

Well first not passing judgements, no one here knows anyone's relationship...but here are some spitballed thoughts.

Do you keep your activities secret from your SO or are you open with her about them...if secret you know in your own mind it would be viewed as cheating

How would a guy feel if his SO saw male escorts as frequently as you see female escorts

How do you handle the issue of testing for STI/STDs...if in a relationship do you tell your SO she should also be tested, and if so do you explain why? Also a question, while you accept the risks (and use risk reduction ie condoms) did your SO also agree to accept those risks because of your activities?

If the partner of someone who has activities in this lifestyle because you don't provide him a sex life, while you have a right to no longer have sex do you have the right to deprive your husband/boyfriend of a sex life and do you think he will agree to be celibate and stay with you

Some quick thoughts, no judgements though

RG

[MightyPen 67414]

Would my SO think of it as cheating? Most likely. That's why I go to great lengths to prevent her from being there.

I think what you've established there is that, with respect to your relationship, your act IS cheating. But you won't stop for that reason alone, and instead you deal with that by mitigating the risks.

 

As I said before -- that's fine, everyone knows best their own situation, boundaries, and priorities. But "cheating" is by definition a question about one's relationship, and not just one's own point of view. No single member within a relationship can decide by him/herself what does and does not count as cheating on their partner(s); it's something determined by the parameters of a shared relationship, not one solitary individual.

[Guest P**aq]

I am single (and have been for a few years) so the encounters I have had with women here from CERB have been wonderful, guilt free, and memorable!

 

Truth be told, if I were in a relationship, I would not be here. Glad I'm single ;)

[Katherine of Halifax 113931]

In my opinion unless you tell your SO it's always cheating every time .

When ever I am in Ottawa it's always my hope to see Ottawa's ladies darling , Il Re. I always mention this to my SO , if I did not I would not enjoy the time . My life is very different though, transparent and easy . My wish is that someday we can all play at that level .

[Mikeyboy 27111]

I agree with most here. I don't think you can be so black and white with it. Defining cheating based on one specific action is an oversimplification. (Bill Clinton tried it and it didn't work out so well for him ;) ) What is considered cheating is going to be different for every couple and every relationship. For some, flirtation is enough to cross the line. For others, it may be something completely different.

 

The bottom line is, if you feel the need to keep it from her, then it likely is to some degree, cheating by most definitions.

 

Why some of choose to even though we know where the line is, is a subject for a different debate, but I think most of us know where the line is, at least in the eyes of their own SO.

[roamingguy 300291]

I am single (and have been for a few years) so the encounters I have had with women here from CERB have been wonderful, guilt free, and memorable!

 

Truth be told, if I were in a relationship, I would not be here. Glad I'm single ;)

 

I'm in agreement with you, if I were in a relationship I wouldn't be here either. But this lifestyle for me has become my social/dating life if you will. Now that said, I don't know what I'd do if I were in a relationship, but the sex/intimacy were gone, would I seek companionship outside the relationship, be it through this lifestyle, or an affair...I don't know.

And as much right as a woman has to decide whether to have sex or not, she doesn't have the right to impose a celibate life on her husband/boyfriend, and if he is denied intimacy in his relationship, he will seek it out elsewhere

I also know how I felt when my fiancé (well ex fiancé) showed up pregnant with another man's child, wondering if we were still going to be married...

cheating has one perspective when you are doing the cheating, a completely different one when you are the one cheated on (sorry for using

judgment laden term...not really intended)

Hence why I don't judge, everyone's relationship and life experience is unique.

RG

[Athos 108589]

I'm in agreement with you, if I were in a relationship I wouldn't be here either. But this lifestyle for me has become my social/dating life if you will. Now that said, I don't know what I'd do if I were in a relationship, but the sex/intimacy were gone, would I seek companionship outside the relationship, be it through this lifestyle, or an affair...I don't know.

And as much right as a woman has to decide whether to have sex or not, she doesn't have the right to impose a celibate life on her husband/boyfriend, and if he is denied intimacy in his relationship, he will seek it out elsewhere

I also know how I felt when my fiancé (well ex fiancé) showed up pregnant with another man's child, wondering if we were still going to be married...

cheating has one perspective when you are doing the cheating, a completely different one when you are the one cheated on (sorry for using

judgment laden term...not really intended)

Hence why I don't judge, everyone's relationship and life experience is unique.

RG

 

 

It absolutely is cheating in my mind. No worries with that judgement. Whether that is "bad", "good", "acceptable" or "unacceptable" is the basis of the judgements that I take exception too. As you say RG, everyone's circumstance is different, and the reasons for partaking in this lifestyle are different.

 

I'm comfortable with the fact that I cheat. I know it would devastate my partner. These are choices we make and risks we take. We all have reasons.

 

Porthos

[roamingguy 300291]

It absolutely is cheating in my mind. No worries with that judgement. Whether that is "bad", "good", "acceptable" or "unacceptable" is the basis of the judgements that I take exception too. As you say RG, everyone's circumstance is different, and the reasons for partaking in this lifestyle are different.

 

I'm comfortable with the fact that I cheat. I know it would devastate my partner. These are choices we make and risks we take. We all have reasons.

 

Porthos

 

I guess, in my mind's eye, the word cheating, in itself has to it a judgement laden overtone as well as being an accurate word...but then it seems all words used have an undertone of judgement to them. My only point is I don't judge even though using the words, we don't know another's relationship, experience and so on

Me I don't judge even though in my posts I use terms that do have a judgement laden overtone to them, but only because I don't know of any judgement neutral phrases.

RG

[roamingguy 300291]

Well maybe I'm confused. If I were in a relationship I would be monogamous and likewise expect my SO to be monogamous. I always was when dating and in relationships

But one thing about this lifestyle, which has replaced dating for me, is the poly amorous nature of it. Everyone, ladies and gents alike can enjoy seeing more than partner be it SP or Client, no guilt, no strings, no complications

And I could not envision going back to dating now because I couldn't be in a monogamous relationship after being in this poly amorous lifestyle.

But if I should go back to dating and a relationship I would be monogamous and I would expect my SO to be monogamous as well

Is that confused or what? :-)

 

RG