being offered more than advertised

[Guest ve****ter****d]

Visited an MP this week and was offered a wider menu than I had anticipated. I did not take the attendant up on what she proposed as I was under the impression that some of these activities cause problems with LE for MP.

 

I have been to this place before a few times before and never encountered this. I am not sure about going back or perhaps I should talk to the owner? Does it matter?

[Peachka 4334]

Probably best to keep this to yourself and just not go there, if you don't feel comfortable. Spa owners usually have an idea of what is going on so they will find out if they don't already know. I wouldn't get involved but that is just me.

 

You are likely to get some PM's asking whom the MA is! LOL

[waterat 20911]

I second Peachka's advice

 

....You are likely to get some PM's asking whom the MA is! LOL

 

No need to bother responding - this makes it better for the lady and for you.

[Boomer 33202]

They say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens behind closed doors should remain between you and the MA. The spa owner probably has a pretty good idea what's going on, and you aren't going to do yourself any good by "kiss and tell". The reason you go to the owner when you obviously don't get the level of service your're paying for.

[Guest ve****ter****d]

You are right Peachka this post has attracted more PMs than thread traffic.

[yak2432 1499]

Agreed, what goes on behind closed doors between two consenting and naked adults is their business. Problem is some girls offer some services whereas others don't and guys sometimes expect that it's the same across the board. I worry about the MA's who have to deal with pushy clients expecting more when they only provide basics.

[CMJ 14869]

The MA undercover SP should go be an indy escort rather then confusing clients that go to massage establishments.

 

Also, if the owner is turning a blind eye and allowing this illegal activity to occur due to greed, that individual is putting all of their other staff at risk of being charged, not to mention all of their clients and bringing unwanted attention of the entire industry. The laws are in limbo but are still in affect.

 

If the owner isnt aware, then I would suggest sending an anonymous email and giving them the heads up would be highly appreciated I am sure.

[poolasaurus 5877]

I find I avoid Asian MPs on Bank and Somerset for this very reason. They are very upfront about SP services which must make them a huge LE draw (though I know who you are referring to Jasmin ;)).

[loneskater 25635]

I am appalled at some responses and attacks the OP is getting for asking a valuable question. I am sure he isn't the only one wondering what to do in this situation.

 

He did not name who the lady was or which Spa was involved so he had every right to ask this question in public. Many have provided great responses which are different on how to handle this situation which is fine. We all see things differently and that is one of the purpose on the Board, to exchange ideas about the business so we can all improve our knowledge of the industry!

 

Maybe some need to be reminded this is not the other board where we attack other members and call them names. For the one that think he is stupid for asking, shame on you and look at yourself in the mirror. You might not see perfection!

 

Nobody here is forced to agree with everyone. However this Board is about respect, learning and not being intimidated for asking a valuable question. DO NOT FORGET!

[WriteOn 3250]

I don't see any reason to bring this issue up with the owner, what will it achieve except possibly the lady losing her job. You were offered more than you expected, which personally I don't see as an issue :) , and you declined.

 

Personally, and I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone, you're naive if you think the only thing that happens in massage parlours is a HJ.

[CMJcourtney 3220]

If you want to give more than what you're supposed to as an MA go be an escort, or go indy(Im sure you will make more!) . It's not fair to the other ladies who follow the rules and aren't giving bbbj ECT. And as for the client who got offered, you should definitely tell the owner in private im sure they would maintain your privacy.:)

[canuckhooker 19202]

Wow this is getting so far out of hand it is ridiculous. Lets start with the fact that despite claims to the contrary, no spa in Ottawa, licensed or not follows the regulations set out by the city. Other jurisdictions are more explicit in stating that attendants should not touch the genitals etc of the client.

 

Nowhere in this country is it legal to get a hand-job from nude employee. Whether or not by-law and the police turn a blind eye is a different matter.

 

So now we are talking about "conventions" and breaking house rules. That is a totally different matter. True if word got out that a spa was openly offering FS then maybe LE would scrutinize more closely, but that is merely a supposition.

 

If you feel that being a snitch is the way to go, and you want to turn an employee into the boss then go ahead and do it. It is not something I would do. Of course the word would probably get out, and I don't think many people would trust you much any more, or ever try and be a little generous with you. If you feel uneasy about an offer, tell the person offering you and then put it out of your mind.

[mod 135639]

I removed the nasty comments that are not in the spirit of the cerb community.

[Guest vio****e]

This has happened to me as well, in both Ottawa and another city far away. In the Ottawa case, it was surprising because of the location and the circumstances.

 

So I will say this: some of us prefer the MA experience because we know there are fairly clear boundaries that make all of us (MA, client, owner) feel more comfortable and safe. If I thought an MA at an establishment was endangering herself or her place of work, I would notify the owner. I have done this before and I would not hesitate to do it again.

 

Are those boundaries always set in stone? The experience you can have with any particular MA will depend on many things, particularly everyones' moods and feelings of connection. Sometime things seem more erotic than they might be with someone with whom you have less chemistry. That's why so many people write YMMV.

[CMJ 14869]

 

Nowhere in this country is it legal to get a hand-job from nude employee. Whether or not by-law and the police turn a blind eye is a different matter.

 

 

.

 

I respectfully disagree, and I say... this matter has been settled and currently has not challenged in a higher court. Case law is case law.... its not nude handjobs that are in question here....however there isnt any case law that I am aware of that says "hey its a free frall - suck and fuck away folks"...

 

solicitation, PROCUREMENT, bawdy houses, and living off the avails are still illegal. The laws on the books still stand.

 

The bylaw laws are another story... and im tired so will save those comments for another night

[WriteOn 3250]

I respectfully disagree, and I say... this matter has been settled and currently has not challenged in a higher court.

 

Could you be a little more specific. You're saying that it is legal to get a nude hand job in a massage parlor now?

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I would really like to know what the statement above specifically means.

[Guest **n****er]

Wow this is getting so far out of hand it is ridiculous. Lets start with the fact that despite claims to the contrary, no spa in Ottawa, licensed or not follows the regulations set out by the city. Other jurisdictions are more explicit in stating that attendants should not touch the genitals etc of the client.

 

Nowhere in this country is it legal to get a hand-job from nude employee. Whether or not by-law and the police turn a blind eye is a different matter.

 

So now we are talking about "conventions" and breaking house rules. That is a totally different matter. True if word got out that a spa was openly offering FS then maybe LE would scrutinize more closely, but that is merely a supposition.

 

If you feel that being a snitch is the way to go, and you want to turn an employee into the boss then go ahead and do it. It is not something I would do. Of course the word would probably get out, and I don't think many people would trust you much any more, or ever try and be a little generous with you. If you feel uneasy about an offer, tell the person offering you and then put it out of your mind.

 

I agree completely with this. The suggestion that somehow LE or anybody else would scrutinize an establishment any more based on the different type of sensual product is just....inaccurate.

 

HJ, BJ, FS it's all the same. If a business has a rule against it, then fine. But that's all it is.

[roamingguy 300291]

I can see both sides of the coin in relation to telling the owner about being offered more than advertised.

On one side you could report the incident to the owner, because if this is going on, and unreported, there is the potential that one day it could come to light in less discrete ways, and not only does that MP offering services run the risk of losing her job (and worse), the owner could lose her business, all ladies lose their jobs, and if a raid, all clients charged...that's one possibility, worse case scenario

On the other side, if you don't report, don't mention it at all ever again. And you decide if you want to go back to the spa. And hope it never gets reported by any other client.

BTW you at least can control it, if you report it to the Spa owner, he/she can deal with it in house. Someone else may report it, but not to the spa, to the police who may deal with it some other way

Finally, you can report it to the spa owner, anonymously, and not say who you saw, nor exact date/time you were there. The owner can then call in all MP's for a meeting telling what is and isn't allowed, the MP doing "more" might get the hint, stop, problem solved and no one loses their job.

Not saying what should/shouldn't be done, and the choices are yours to make

A rambling over my first cup (yes I know late) of coffee

 

RG

[canuckhooker 19202]

I respectfully disagree, and I say... this matter has been settled and currently has not challenged in a higher court. Case law is case law.... its not nude handjobs that are in question here....however there isnt any case law that I am aware of that says "hey its a free frall - suck and fuck away folks"...

 

solicitation, PROCUREMENT, bawdy houses, and living off the avails are still illegal. The laws on the books still stand.

 

The bylaw laws are another story... and im tired so will save those comments for another night

 

I was reluctant to respond to this as then we go into more details about individual business models but I will try and do it in a way so as not to put anyone in an awkward position.

 

You are quite right there is case law regarding a lower court ruling that an HJ received in a licensed body rub was not a sexual service. The famous Bill Clinton defense, which in my mind is absolutely stupid and illogical, but regardless the ruling was made. And you are right it has not been appealed, probably because of the Bedford case and they want to fight one war at a time.

 

Regardless that ruling was a criminal ruling on a specific event that took place in a Licensed body rub and much was made about the policeman's conduct in that case as well. It had nothing to do with local regulation of body rubs. Cities still have the right to limit the number of spas and the activities that take place in a body rub.

 

In many jurisdictions in Ontario they explicitly rule out touching the genitals, breasts or anal area of customers. And that is well within their rights. That is not in the Ottawa by-law but it does state that attendants must be dressed in clean clothing at all times. It also regulates lighting levels etc. So showers together, nude attendants, body slides etc are reasons for having your licensed pulled and being shut down even if the only release offered is manual. That is if you have a license.

 

If you are unlicensed then the city could shut you down at anytime. That is if you are offering a body rub. If you are using some other legal loophole such as the SCC ruling on "swing clubs" you might be safe. However if someone made the case that one of the parties in the private club was not a member but actually paid, then that is a whole different ball of wax, and could lead to problems.

 

So that being said, I will say one more time, no spa that I know of in Ottawa, licensed or unlicensed complies with the regulations regarding the activities that go on within the spas. They all advertise activities that are not allowed. So to perpetuate the myth that HJ's are OK, but anything else is not, is false.

 

Why does LE or bylaw leave them alone? Most likely because as long as they operate as they do now, and the authorities receive no third-party complaints it is not worth their effort. Much the same as Strip Clubs where by requlation there must be a sign posted that warns of no touching between customer and dancers, and advising that sexually transmitted infections can be transmitted through unprotected physical contact. But we all know that contact goes on, it is expected. By-law and LE will not take action until they get a complaint.

[sockobuw 130]

it will be interesting to see where this goes over the next few months.