How do you view hobbying - A party with a guest or pay for sex

[ulixestrojan 3757]

Fascinating post!

 

The hobby is a hobby.

 

I collect odd (not old, I said odd) motorcycles. They cost me to buy, insure, maintain, and fuel to ride. I love them all and they bring me pleasure. I love the search, the negotiation, the care and rubbing I put into them to make them as beautiful as possible. Not everyone appreciates what I see but it does not matter. I do it for the sheer pleasure of it.

 

When I engage the loving services of a MA or SP it is for the sheer pleasure of it. I love the search, the getting to know one another, the rubbing and caressing to make me as hard as possible and her as wet as possible. They cost me hourly rates, little gifts, tips, occasional trips, time, effort, emotional tension sometimes but I love them all. Not everyone appreciates what I see but it does not matter. I do it for the sheer pleasure of it.

 

It is not just about sex. I have a vanilla with streams of caramel partner and we have sex as well as all sorts of things that have nothing to do with sex and that sometimes get in the way. This is not a hobby it is a choice about lifestyle and family.

 

I have long-time lovers in various cities that stay with me when I travel. This is not a hobby, it is a very adult form of friendship.

 

I engage in various fetish activities that push my physical, emotional, spiritual boundaries. This is not a hobby it is part of my personal growth and discovery.

 

All of these things have sex involved but only the hobby is a hobby. I love this hobby.

[Andee 220524]

 

I wasn't offended all.

[masterowls 249]

I am fairly new to the board and for what it is worth I will throw my 2 cents in. This is what I think and I know for sure that not everyone will agree with me.

 

Sex is never free (at least for males lol). You always pay for it. It has never happened to me that a woman has walked up to me and said lets go have sex. Whether you are dating someone, married to someone, or calling a sp. There is always a cost. Either dinner/gifts/movies/drinks ect..... for girls you are dating. Even if you are married and she makes more money than you there will always be spending money on her to keep her happy trips/gifts/date night ect... Now I know that saying this is probably going to catch a little backlash here but before you let loose on me just think first. If you were married/dating a guy and he just wanted to sit at home and do nothing all day every day how long would you stay with him honestly?!? After all this like it has been stated before you might get lucky you might not (prob not if your married lol). So I see no prob cutting out the middle men and giving a donation to a sp. I am happy they are happy it is a win win for everyone involved. I would say that this is true 99.5% of the time. I am stating this because I know someone is going to say something about a one night stand that they had 1 time where they picked up someone at the end of the night and had not paid a cent to entertain them. Even then I say you paid money to go out yourself taxi/gas/cover/drinks in order to pick up, so I say you still paid to have sex. The only diff is that you are not giving the money to the girl as you would with a sp.

 

Ok now all the people I pissed off can have at the lighter boy lol.

 

I don't think anyone who has been married would deny that there is always a cost to sex. (Although in my case I never got any anyway) my wife used to only hold my hand if she wanted me to do something in return. Never once, not even on the wedding night did she even offer me a hand job let alone anything else. If I wanted to touch her, it was on her terms. I can categorically say that there is some cost for every act, especially sex. The only difference is that we hobbiests , prefer to pay up front. LOL :-)

[Capital Hunter 18263]

when that happens with me I get a woody!:grin:....then it is play time!

 

You sure it is not viagra lol:D, just kidding. Thought to add some humor to a very hot thread lol.

 

Yes kissing,cuddling and hugging is definitely a sexual contact

 

No seriously PP. cuddling and hugging and kissing is what most people are doing. I mean close family members (parents hug and cuddle and kiss their children), friends of oppsite sex (or same sex lady friends too) . We may be on a different wavelength but they are totally different with dfk lol as stated in a post before. I don't cuddle or hug with my lips or my tongue inside someone else's lol.

[ottanon 2930]

Yes Carrie, exactly. when some says hobbyist it is sexual. I like your analogy of why pretend a rose is a tulip. It is what it is.

 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with being an optimist.. but why not also be a realist? There is nothing wrong with paying for sex.. in fact I embrace and rely on that concept to pay my rent! I'm happy to be a provider of such service and proud of the service and happiness I bring. Why pretend a rose is a tulip? I love both.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

My concluding remarks:

 

I have read each and every post carefully (and noted those who agreed with a view by nominating a particular post) and my conclusion is that, there is no right and wrong in this subject. There are always those who can strongly debate for and those who can equally strongly debate against. The purpose for this debate was educational and there was no intention for a winner or loser.

 

As like any other subject of life, there are two ways of looking at everything. One may look at a glass of water and describe it as half full and the next person may see it as half empty. One may love her/his work and earn money at the same time and some may not like their work as much but still show on time everyday because they need the paycheque.

 

There are two extremes to this debate and none is 100% true representative of reality.

 

1 – Ladies whom we see really love us and have great time with us and make good money at the same time and are really looking forward to us calling them back. They are our dates and therefore it is not considered as pay for sex but rather a Rendezvous and is exactly as dating or having a GF (whom we have sex with on a regular basis, after dinner, gift, etc.) whom we usually buy expensive gifts or take her to dinner dates or dance bar. This was the questionable view that I started the thread and asked for cerbites to comment on pros and cons.

 

2 – The ladies hate us and hate their time with us. The only reason they do it is because they need money or they are under pressure to earn money by someone or pay for a bad habit. They watch the clock and pray that the time passes fast. They hate themselves later for what they have to do and take a long shower afterwards. They do not wish to think back or be reminded of us after they leave our house.

 

Scenario number 1 is both moral and legal. Scenario number 2 is both immoral and illegal. I would like to think that in my case, it is closer to the first scenario than second and hope that pray that is the case.

 

As a realist (and I have all you to thank for opening my eyes to reality) I would say that the reality is somewhat in between the above two scenarios and in my view a lot closer to scenario number 1, than second. In fact I firmly believe and hope that all of us hobbyists would do everything possible and our absolute best when seeing these ladies by being respectful, treating them like a princess that they are and as guests in our house (or in their house if we take incalls) to make sure that in their case it is closer to scenario 1 by far or as close as is in our power, than scenario number 2.

 

This is my updated views on the subject.

 

Most of ladies we see like/love what they do and there is a good chance that they like/love most of us, however, they also do it for pay. So, yes it is pay for sex. Overwhelming majority will not do it if the offer of donation is withdrawn. I say overwhelming majority (but not all) because I have had several cases that the SP I used to see (3 cases of nude dancers becoming my GF, 2 cases asking to become my GF and one case of escort also indicating her willingness to become my GF). So, above scenario is not applicable to everyone but I would say overwhelming majority. Just like, I love my job too but if they stop paying me then I would start looking for alternative jobs but that does not mean that I hate my job, but I need the cheques to pay for my living expenses. Same applies to most SPs lol.

 

However, I still believe that hugging and kissing and cuddling is not a sexual act (we do it all the time to our close family members and friends of opposite sex lol) and is totally different with dfk which I consider as sexual act lol.

 

My final views for what it worth and they are my personal views which means they are mine and I do not expect everyone to agree with them either.

 

Again thank you very much everyone for your participation in the debate and your comments.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

You claim that several girls you've met as dancers want to be your girlfriend or have been.. what about in the square world? Any who you haven't wooed with financial incentives? Any who you can be sure like you for you?

 

A client of mine held the same view as you..with several sp's including me and by about the 6th regular girl he starting seeing found that the sp who was previously a dancer he first paid for her time.. ''fell in love with him'' and wanted to marry him.

 

He ended up being taken for quite a bit of money before finding out she was not only already married but had no intention of following through on the fantasy he held about her... but rather loathed him. She kept up this pretense for several months.

 

So again.. I say until you take the money out of the equation or gifts for that matter you are probably accustomed to being what I coined with him.. a ''friendship whore''..

as he was also someone who coudn't say no when various friends asked him for favours often in the financial end or borrowing his vehicle, staying at his place when in need of a roof over their head etc etc..

 

I am one who thinks you live in la la land.. and I don't see why it needs to be one extreme of the other.

 

If you genuinely were interested in the reality of what sp's think.. ask them! ones especially who you are not directly paying for their time. Seems to me you've already decided what you want to see and chose to ignore what most people have actually said on here.

 

As with any employee.. I don't know about you but I couldn't honestly answer to my boss when in the square world.. what I really thought of him to his face if I didn't like him.. for fear of losing my job. Plus I've been in enough strip joints to know what kind of schmoozing must take place to earn money. Not my game.

 

The clients who see me for instance don't ever have a fantasy that I'll date them.. they may ask me to role-play but they are always realistic about why I'm there.. and they are respectful and happy to pay me to fulfill their needs. In my case at least and I know several other sp's who are the same.. we like several of our clients and yes look forward to seeing them regularly... but we also give very good service to the ones we don't look forward to seeing.

 

Most clients do not look to sp's or dancers for possible girlfriends. Consistently blurring the lines makes reality difficult.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

You claim that several girls you've met as dancers want to be your girlfriend or have been.. what about in the square world? Any who you haven't wooed with financial incentives? Any who you can be sure like you for you?

 

So again.. I say until you take the money out of the equation or gifts for that matter you are probably accustomed to being what I coined with him.. a ''friendship whore''..

as he was also someone who coudn't say no when various friends asked him for favours often in the financial end or borrowing his vehicle, staying at his place when in need of a roof over their head etc etc..

 

I am one who thinks you live in la la land...

 

The thread was not/is not about me whether I live in a la la land or .... Please don't make this personal, with all due respects. It is a friendly debate and exchange of views. Besides in my view it is not right to make a judgement when one does not have all the facts (regarding me and my girlfriends and whatever the circumstances).

[PistolPete 61421]

Last time I checked it stood for Canadian Escort Recommendation Board. If you wish to kiss,hug or cuddle with someone fill your boots, but when you are with an MA or SP or in fact a dancer I'm sure those ladies would define it as sexually contact. Try it in your work place and let me know "how it all works out for you"

 

BTW I don't need a supplement, just ask some of the ladies, I can go on like the energy bunny:-D. But when a lady really knows how to kiss, I'm the first to admit it really turns my crank:mrgreen:

 

 

No seriously PP. cuddling and hugging and kissing is what most people are doing. I mean close family members (parents hug and cuddle and kiss their children), friends of oppsite sex (or same sex lady friends too) . We may be on a different wavelength but they are totally different with dfk lol as stated in a post before. I don't cuddle or hug with my lips or my tongue inside someone else's lol.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

However, I still believe that hugging and kissing and cuddling is not a sexual act (we do it all the time to our close family members and friends of opposite sex lol) and is totally different with dfk which I consider as sexual act lol.

Well, it can go either way. I've been paid by many men to cuddling and hug. Would they have paid me if I had a penis? If I was ugly/unattractive to them? Hell no. They paid me to cuddle and hug them because they find me sexually attractive.

[Carrie Moon 68826]

The thread was not/is not about me whether I live in a la la land or .... Please don't make this personal, with all due respects. It is a friendly debate and exchange of views. Besides in my view it is not right to make a judgement when one does not have all the facts (regarding me and my girlfriends and whatever the circumstances).

 

Actually you asked if anyone thought you lived in la la land.. more than once so I thought I'd tell you my opinion on that matter. Why ask if you don't want an honest answer?

 

You are describing your personal experiences as backup to your assessment.. so it is open for discussion no?

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Try it in your work place and let me know "how it all works out for you"

 

BTW I don't need a supplement, just ask some of the ladies, I can go on like the energy bunny:-D. But when a lady really knows how to kiss, I'm the first to admit it really turns my crank:mrgreen:

 

Funny you should say this Pete as I was thinking about the same thing. Last day, one of our co-worker was leaving to another company and we took her to a good bye-good luck lunch and at the end, yes we (me included) hugged her and kissed her (not dfk but on the face) to say good bye and wish good luck.

 

The second part, I thought I made it clear that I was joking and being humorous. I apologize if you were offended by it Pete.

 

Additional Comments:

Actually you asked if anyone thought you lived in la la land.. more than once so I thought I'd tell you my opinion on that matter. Why ask if you don't want an honest answer?

 

You are describing your personal experiences as backup to your assessment.. so it is open for discussion no?

 

Yes you are right about the first part. I didn't realize the la la land is the same as a fictitious world I was asking. My apology.

 

No, I did not mean a debate on my personal life. I made a brief reference to say that it is not 100% of SPs who are after money some really like us enough to wish to become our girlfriends. The memories are old and in a case or two also painful and not subject for debate. What offended me a bit was that you seem to be questioning their motives or implying financial reasons for them choosing to be my GF and that was what I objected as judgement without knowing them (or me) or having all the facts.

[PistolPete 61421]

Saying good-bye to a co-worker is one thing, but if you are inviting a guest over to your place, you are putting that "hug" "cuddle" "kiss" on that lady, it is an entire different perspective all together.

 

BTW.....Don't worry I was not offended at all, no need to apologize, I don't mind humor at all.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Well' date=' it can go either way. I've been paid by many men to cuddling and hug. Would they have paid me if I had a penis? If I was ugly/unattractive to them? Hell no. They paid me to cuddle and hug them because they find me sexually attractive.[/quote']

 

If they paid only for cuddling and hugging and nothing else at all then yes you are right.

[capitalman 3861]

I'd like to see an escort from CERB go visit Secret Admirer and accept his money then just hang with him and watch TV then leave, and see Secret Admirer NOT be upset because that's all he got! Give me a break dude....

[Capital Hunter 18263]

CM, If the lady does not like the guy for whatever reason or feels unsafe for whatever reason she has the right to walk away without taking the money lol. It is like any other job. A worker has the right to refuse to work if he/she does not like the job or if it is in a hazardous environment why should an SP be any different, however, he/she likely will not be compensated for job not done. Where did I say that the SP can take your money and walk away or not provide the services that she has promised you before coming over, for no reason lol.

 

With regard to only watching TV, yes I have had nude dancers who did just that. Watching TV together for an hour or two while we were dancing together or sometimes she contact danced for me while watching TV. I have had my best time with private dancers because I know them beforehand and there was a strong emotional component (and caring) to our time. To me GFE is not about a list of services but the emotional attachment and the feeling that I am with my own GF.

 

If you read my latest post (or you didn't bother to read it before commenting) you realize that I did acknowledge that there is a component of pay for sex in SPing, but still insisted that there is a good chance that most SPs would also like their time with most of us (if you treat them well and respectful that I am sure you would). OR DO YOU ALSO DISAGREE WITH THIS LOL??.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

Help me out here then - if an SP (not an MA or dancer) does take your money what exactly do you expect in return for your money - just time? cuddling? hugging? kissing? or sex?

[Capital Hunter 18263]

OutForFun, The envelop is for her time and companionship. The rest is decided between consenting adults.

 

More specifically, for escorts (as unlike dancers the emotional component is not there for first timers) I expect kissing/hugging/cuddling. I communicate with them about the fact beforehand. When they show up I expect them to live up to their promise on kissing/hugging. That is the only thing that I ask and expect from them and I let them know beforehand. If they dislike me enough to break the promise then they have the choice to leave but without the envelop (has never happened by the visiting lady but I have refused kissing in a few cases when I did not see fit - signs of drug use or scars, bad smell, improper hygiene but with full pay).

 

I never communicate to them about FS. This is very intimate and is a service that I hope the lady would provide if she likes me enough to get that intimate. I do not automatically expect or assume that service. She can only decide after she sees me and can make up her mind. After initial conversing/chocolate/wineing I ask them if they would like to accompany me to the bedroom and the decision is entirely theirs lol. As most know I do not take other services which I consider as risky (bbbj, greek, cim., cob,, sw, whatever else is there..) even if offerred. This is my choice (so do not be offended lol). I have never been refused the bedroom, but I have refused it on two occasions with visiting dancers when I was asked.

 

BTW, most (almost all) ladies would love kissing/hugging/cuddling. I do what I can to be clean and healthy for them and treat them as well and as respectful as I can, As guests and like a princess that I believe they are. They feel like they just had a fun date (or that is what they tell me) rather than work. In fact one recently told me that she feels like she should be the one to pay me for pleasure and companionship lol.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Just thought I would throw it out there.... I personally feel kissing is more intimate than intercourse.

[Guest S***dst***]

I personally feel kissing is more intimate than intercourse.

 

 

This.

I sometimes wonder if the ladies are thinking of someone else during intercourse.

Kissing, you can REALLY tell if they aren't into it and it can be much more sensual aswell.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

Ok, so you hire SP's expecting at minimum hugging, cuddling and kissing. I believe that the vast majority of other hobbyists hire them expecting FS sex. Thus I have found that SP's view the offering of FS sex to be the cornerstone of their job and as such make it a practice to ensure they offer it to clients. The vast majority of ladies I've met in fact take great pride in their job. Thus I would expect that most will follow you into the bedroom as they view it as part of the job.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I don't hire SPs OutForFun!!!!. I invite the ladies to be guests in my house and she is treated like one not like an employee lol. In my PM/email I communicate with them the fact that they are invited as guests (i.e I always say I can have guests on weekends) and if they can make it for certain time and date

 

kissing/hugging/cuddling is not the minimum but is all I expect. The rest (FS) is icing on the cake, so to speak, if the lady decides to grant the service. I ask them if they would like to accompany me to the bedroom and it is their choice if they do. What would you suggest me to say or do instead that I don"t do OutForFun?? Isn't that how you would ask your girlfriend too lol?.

 

If the lady has a no-kissing policy for whatever reason, she can of course decline the invitation in her PM/email lol.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

Nothing, I just maintain that hobbying is by virtue of hiring SP's to be an act of paying for sex because that is what SP's view the job to be. You may view it to be icing, but to SP's it is the cake.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

May be true but can we not make them feel that they are not hired employees but rather precious/valued guests in our house and make them feel that they are a princess and a treasure and that we respect them and value them like a treasure?? And show them a great time to the best that we can??

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

It is an error to equate "paying for sex" with "not valuing" or "not respecting" the ladies.