Ashley Madison. Anyone concerned?

[MightyPen 67414]

Still, it would be useful to take some time to reflect on your relationship and what might be missing and discuss it with each other. If she finds out about your joining though and confronts you, don't lie. Admit it and take your punishment [...]. Face it [...] and she may still respect you and want to work it out. Make excuses, get defensive, blame her and you make it worse. Try "I did it. I'm sorry. When you're done yelling let's talk about it". It's better than "if you had sex with me more often I wouldn't need to look elsewhere!". Trust me.

That's good advice.

[backrubman 64800]

...If being caught meant the destruction of their marriages, their careers, and/or their children's wellbeing... then Ashley Madison's clients bear the responsibility for putting those things on the line in the first place. Your list of terrible outcomes is as much an indictment of the clients' foolish choice to gamble with their own lives/marriages/children, as it is a condemnation of the hacker.

 

Actually, if I have to place blame then it must go to the people that work in the security department at Ashley Madison and it's arrogant CEO. Although they had a disclaimer that the lawyers put in the fine print, all their advertising and promotion would lead people to believe that their secret was safe and they had to know that they were a highly desirable target.

 

I can't blame humans for being human and having human frailties. I certainly don't blame the people here for being here either (do you?) but I'm quite certain that a lot of them are keeping secrets which, if exposed, would cause them damage. Fortunately there is a lot less danger of that happening here, or rather there is a lot less potential for the same kind of consequences as the same kind of information just isn't there even if it was leaked.

[MightyPen 67414]

Actually, if I have to place blame then it must go to the people that work in the security department at Ashley Madison and it's arrogant CEO.

They had their role. But I think the primary responsibility lies with the people who put themselves at risk. Who's more responsible for protecting a man's children: some company's CTO, or the man himself?

 

I can't blame humans for being human and having human frailties. I certainly don't blame the people here for being here either (do you?) but I'm quite certain that a lot of them are keeping secrets which, if exposed, would cause them damage. ...

And here I completely agree. I don't condemn people who signed up at Ashley Madison, nor married people who see SPs. We all know that there can be compelling reasons, human reasons, understandable reasons for seeking companionship outside some marriages. And if someone weighs the risks and chooses to go ahead anyway, I have no issue; who am I to claim I can better comprehend their choice?

 

But what I do condemn is people who get caught, and then try to escape responsibility for their choice by claiming "but it's not my fault!". It is their fault. They're the ones that put their marriage, and the people who rely on it, at risk; and now that bill has come due. If they really didn't stop to think about that possibility before putting everything at risk... well, they really, really should have.

 

This is why I have little patience for the threads we sometimes see here that ask "hey, does seeing an SP really count as cheating?" We can acknowledge that there can be legitimate reasons for that choice, and that the risk is lower than a civilian affair -- but the risk is there just the same. Downplaying how one's partner might perceive it ("But it's just a transaction! But I felt no emotional connection!") just tries to evade the gravity of the decision they're really making.

[Rubs 1373]

Some people subconsciously want to get caught .

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[Brad 49548]

They had their role. But I think the primary responsibility lies with the people who put themselves at risk.

 

I generally agree with you MightyPen, and as usual that was well said. But I think there's another level worth considering where at least in some cases the blame does belong elsewhere and less with those exposed.

 

Everyone's acting like the only one's that will be punished or caught up in this are married men who--for whatever reasons, justifiable or otherwise--are cheating on their spouse and so have (as you say) assumed a risk by doing so.

 

However, there are also those who maybe had their email address and identity used without their consent. There are those who signed up probably just to try to see if they could spot someone they recognize. Some will have signed up out of curiosity and either had no intention to go further or changed their mind. Do these folks deserve the same fate and exposure and consequences? Will their spouse, friends, family, or anyone else curiously checking to see who they can find on the list believe they weren't cheating or intending to do so?

 

And then there are those who truly weren't cheating at all but were in open-relationships. People with a spouse who knew and were OK with them being on. However, once again their friends, coworkers, and family may not know that or make a distinction.

 

Finally, an extreme case perhaps, but what about the information released of homosexual people from countries where being gay is a punishable offense?

 

My point is the hackers, for their self-righteous or whatever other reasons they had for releasing the information, wouldn't have differentiated between the cheating husband who arguably must accept a risk when deciding to sign up, and any of these other groups.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about fake female profiles, cyclo. Cerb/lyla beats Ashley Madison hands down plus, it's not really cheating if it's with an escort. :)

 

Good points Brad. I also suspect many were just curious.

[MightyPen 67414]

I generally agree with you MightyPen, and as usual that was well said. But I think there's another level worth considering where at least in some cases the blame does belong elsewhere and less with those exposed. ... Do these folks deserve the same fate and exposure and consequences? Will their spouse, friends, family, or anyone else curiously checking to see who they can find on the list believe they weren't cheating or intending to do so?

I don't disagree with what you've said. But I do want to clarify one thing. I don't think any of the AM users "deserved" to be outed by the hacker(s), no matter why they signed up to the AM website.

 

My only point has been that, by signing up identifiably on the site for whatever reason, they became directly responsible for the situation that led to their misfortune today. Not deserving; just responsible. (Barring those whose information was used without their knowledge, whatever proportion that represents.) And that's equally true of the idly curious, as it is of the determined affair-seekers.

[PhantomKnight 7914]

I was busted for having an account.

 

I actually had it while I was single. Met my wife, closed the account.

Years later it came to haunt me. Wife is probably leaving me now, despite the fact I haven't been on it in years. Karma is a bitch I suppose.

[Jabba 18389]

Heard the latest that the AM CEO resigned. He was also a member - big surprise.

 

I believe, maybe shortsightedly, this hack stink will be relatively short lived but long remembered. Are we gonna learn anything?...maybe, but that too will be short-lived. Wait until the next big stink.

 

But here we have an incredibly powerful information tool at our fingertips - and what do we do with it?...entrust our foolish souls to those who would stand to profit.

 

AM: It's a game - how much do you have to lose?

Client: A lot.

AM: Ok, give me money and I'll place you in jeopardy.

Client: Ok - here is lots of cash.

AM: Right, thanksalot you foolish twit. Please feel free to continue to trust us. Oh, and while you're trusting us, here is a really big set of sharp scissors. Run as fast & carefree as you can with these. You can have two pairs if you like.

Client: What happens if I get scared?

AM: For extra money, we can take our scissors back and you'll be really safe. Trust us. We like you. Now give us your money.

 

I'm not trivializing the harm and harsh realities of how this hack has affected peoples lives. I'm just pointing-out that it's human behaviour to always explore the lowest possible denominator. While doing so, like children we don't always care to understand the consequences. Most likely, the hackers will enjoy the fruits of their labour soon.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Maybe monogamy isn't as realistic as we like to imagine? I think that topic has already been discussed previously on here so I won't rehash it now.

 

PhantomKnight, I hope you can work it out with your wife but why are you here if Ashley Madison was just the curiosity of a single man who closed his account upon meeting his wife? Don't kid yourself about your motives. Accept who you are. Good luck!

[nntsci 11075]

"Everyone's acting like the only one's that will be punished or caught up in this are married men who--for whatever reasons, justifiable or otherwise--are cheating on their spouse and so have (as you say) assumed a risk by doing so."

 

Not just the cheaters, but according to a marriage counsellors who works where I do, in many marriages the wife tacitly know her husband is probably cheating, but as long as he is there when she needs him, and he pays the bills the marriage works. Its often not until some snoopy busy body forces her to pay attention to it that the 'cheating' comes out... at which point, they fight, they divorce, etc... I actually in such a relationship... my wife knows I'm capable of cheating (she caught me once), and we've actually joked about it... might also explain why at 53 we still use condoms too... lol... but she sure as hell wouldn't want to give up her rather comfy life style or the regular vacations... So my point is these leakers are like the busy bodies... they need to leave people their privacy.

 

I'm exposed on AM... I had set up a guest account with one of my email accounts... fortunately the email account does not include my actual name (nor did the account), but I do still have that email account (well one of them). I actually set up two "guest" accounts on AM one as a guy and one as a girl... to see what the relative action was... Hundreds of "flirts" and dick picks sent to me as a girl... 2 flirts and 1 picture sent to me as a guy. Never paid for the service or used either account to meet anyone... because I didn't think I could get away with the amount the services costs per month... LOL... I pay so much more now to meet lovely ladies... but then I do make more money now.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

If the reports are accurate about the tiny number of legit female profiles it begs the question, "Is having a profile on AM cheating?". Given the slim to none chance you would ever connect with a real woman on there, I'm not sure it qualifies.

I'm not saying your spouse wouldn't be pissed but if the chance of an affair was essentially zero, are your intentions just as bad as the act? Maybe I'm wrong to think this but is having an AM profile greatly different than a married guy secretly buying a porno, loading it up and masturbating to the idea of having sex with that porn star? The odds of anything happening in real life seem similar.

P.S. Just thinking out loud. Don't use this example if your wife finds you have an AM profile. :)

[Brad 49548]

If the reports are accurate about the tiny number of legit female profiles it begs the question, "Is having a profile on AM cheating?". Given the slim to none chance you would ever connect with a real woman on there, I'm not sure it qualifies.

I'm not saying your spouse wouldn't be pissed but if the chance of an affair was essentially zero, are your intentions just as bad as the act? Maybe I'm wrong to think this but is having an AM profile greatly different than a married guy secretly buying a porno, loading it up and masturbating to the idea of having sex with that porn star? The odds of anything happening in real life seem similar.

 

It's an interesting question Zeno, but I think the difference is clearly intent. Just because it isn't likely you were able to connect with a real woman isn't likely to change the fact that it will be assumed you signed up in an effort to have an affair. At best, if you claim you hadn't had any luck actually meeting someone, these figures will help back up your claim. But it's not going to change any anger over the attempt at cheating.

 

To make your porn example consistent, you'd have to say that not only did the person rent the porno and fantasize (knowing the fantasy starts and ends in their imagination), but that they also messaged the pornstars (for an added fee) under the impression they'd likely be willing to meet up for sex. Is their chances of the pornstar actually agreeing to such a message likely? Nope. Will their spouse view it the same as masturbation because the attempt at an affair was unlikely? Probably not.

 

P.S. Just thinking out loud. Don't use this example if your wife finds you have an AM profile. :smile:

 

Now that part I'd agree with!

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Yeah, I was just thinking out loud, Brad. I try not to do that at home. LOL

 

Still, if I posted on the pornstars twitter feed(at no charge, hey I already bought her porno!) that I thought she was sexy and wished she was more than a fantasy, is that a better example? Not of my creepiness, but of similar outcomes? Neither her or an "AM" female are likely to respond. Anyway, I knew I was blowing smoke but thanks for being kind. :)

[fr33yay0 1172]

Just imagine, now the hack is leading to suicides... insane. I am an IT expert, and I think the data leak was wrong... but the circumstances are not.

[backrubman 64800]

Just imagine, now the hack is leading to suicides... insane. I am an IT expert, and I think the data leak was wrong... but the circumstances are not.

 

That's a stretch. If you take any group of of 33 million people, some of them are going to commit suicide within the next week or two for whatever reason.

 

But I'm sure there will be some very real divorces as a result of this and some of those parents have very real children that will be affected by this.

[fr33yay0 1172]

Back, it's been proven that at least two people have died due to Ashley Madison. Look it up...

[opentonew 10077]

I'm in the Ashley Madison database. But I'm not losing any sleep over the breach. It's just something which I explored before coming to Lyla. I believe in privacy and that is what bothers me about the breach. Not that choices which I made as an adult will become more widely known.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Well, it appears there was an actual suicide attributable to the AM leak. A pastor in the states took his life after he was outed by the AM hack. He was dealing with depression but his family said it was due to the shame he felt from being outed that pushed him to kill himself. Sorry, don't know how to post the article but it was on my MSN homepage.

 

What disturbs me most were the hate filled comments that some spewed about him after his suicide. The truly scary personalities are those that have no room for forgiveness when it comes to others imperfections. Those are damaged, angry people. They need forgiveness more than the pastor. I shall pray for them. :)