Retiring: is it a responsible social act/duty?

[Helena D'Orville 33237]

Ah! This topic really interests and fascinates me. One reason being that as I was raised in Europe, I have a very different view on retirement than the one we have here in North-America. In Europe, work is mostly seen as something unpleasant that you want to get rid of as soon as possible. Retirement equals "long-time deserved holidays for life" that you look forward to, hoping that you will still be in good health to enjoy it enough once you do retire. In Europe, retirement pensions have diminished considerably through years (with the fear that they might completely disappear one day) and the "official" age of retirement is constantly pushed due to financial/economical issues face by governments. Will Europeans have to work until they are 80? Until they die? It really does not make them happy.

 

In North-America, work and retirement are seen in a different way. Here, it seems that everybody wants to work until their last breath, as if nothing existed after a life spent working for others, society, a boss, a company, products, whatever it is...

 

But the reality of economics that have been striking Europe for a long time is slowly striking North-America too. When I hear people who are 65 and over saying that they could retire but that they feel that they can still work and should still have "the right" to work, I answer this: they should think back. When they started their life and career, and that they were happy to find a job to begin building their life and entering adulthood, well, young people do have the same rights today to be able to enjoy the same opportunities. Unemployment was not really an issue after the second world war, for decades. Saying that it is a "right" to keep working, it is close to ignore that you are probably taking away possibilities of employment for your own children and grandchildren. You are taking away their potential for having their own family, a job, a career, a good life, even food in their plate! Are people sometimes selfish when they view retirement, without even realizing it?

 

And are there not many many many things that you could enjoy after a life spent working? Waking up late, going for a nice walk, exercising, meeting with your friends, traveling, reading more books, starting new hobbies or putting more time into it, following your own pace to do things, and exactly do what you have never had the time or the opportunity to do before, without even remembering if we are Monday, Thursday, or Sunday! And if you still want to feel "useful" to society, you can volunteer, get involved on boards for local organizations, maybe start a new one, become a mentor for young people?

 

Of course, one of the issues regarding this is that we are not equal regarding retirement. Not everybody has the same pension, and not everybody can see retirement in a comfortable way. But believe me, so far it is much better here than it is in Europe.

 

I have been thinking for a while now that the decision of retiring has become a conscious, responsible, social act. By retiring, we also show and understand that we have to leave the room for the new generation so that they can have the same chances to make a good life just as our parents and grandparents did.

 

So, am I hitting sensitive cords here, or am I making sense? I am looking forward to reading your answers!

 

[mrgreen760 37785]

I am semi-retired in that I work part-time out of boredom not necessity. I held management positions for most of my career and while not provided with a pension I built my own and well not wealthy by any means I have enough to see me through. My issue is boredom, I have no kids and no real hobbies and my reason for living is a decade younger and not ready to retire so I need to fill time. I work 10-15 hours a week at a minimum wage gig and work with about 20 or so others in a similar situation so it's more social than financial.

 

I do know some folks, teachers and some Feds and other Govt types who have taken their full pensions or even early pensions and then substitute or take on contracts which I'm not sure is fair in that they do potentially block others from "getting in" particularly new grads. I don't feel doing my gig does this.

 

The baby boomers have changed the face of what retirement is for sure and for some it is working for survival and others it clearly isn't. The boomers will also likely draw pensions for more years than previous generations.

 

Interesting question though.

 

Peace

MG

[Brad 49548]

I'm of the opinion you only live once and have a right to act in such a way as makes you happy (provided you're not causing any direct harm to others, of course).

 

I'm only 36 but would be happy to have retired five years ago if I had the means. I have plenty of other aspects to my life I'd rather spend my time on, and I though I don't hate my job or coworkers or anything like that, I don't see it as an important part of my identity. But for other people it's what gives them self-worth, contentment, and so forth. And just because you may be on in years doesn't mean you don't have every bit of a right to that as a younger person.

 

Sure, there are other things out there that you or I might take satisfaction in. But if for others it's their work, then who am I to say otherwise?

 

Indeed, there's so many things in this life that diminish if as you age, and so few advantages people have. If holding onto your job makes you happy, then go for it. I totally get your point of view, but I think I find the idea that people have an expiry date or have to make way a little sad.

 

On a purely economic slant, you're right that the world is different in some ways than decades ago, but that works both ways. In a lot of area the older population is such a large part of the demographic that it would actually be a strain on the system if they all retired.

[Ice4fun 78396]

I am at retirement age and have worked in senior management in an organization that provides me with an excellent defined benefits indexed pension so the choice to retire from a financial position will not be hard but I believe there is more to it then that.

 

When I entered the employment world after university some 35 years ago it was with a keen interest in doing interesting work that would expand my learning and contribute meaningfully to my community while allowing me to financially secure so I could raise a family... In this regards I have been extremely luck because I have worked with amazing people and been extremely well treated by my employer. I generally still enjoy going to work each day and get great satisfaction from the fact that the work I get to do is meaningful. I guess because I enjoy what I do I don't feel any pressure to retire.

 

In regards to feeling some social imperative to do the right thing and step aside for the next generation... no I don't see that... I do however feel an imperative to use my experience, knowledge and leadership role as a platform to encourage and develop others and I am extremely active in this.

 

I don't think that unemployment in this country is driven up by individuals not retiring when they could or should in fact for the last few years we have had in this country a shortage of well educated workers and should have been using immigration to a greater extent. The drop in the price for oil is of course a medium term hit to our economy but in the longer focus Canada will still have serious gaps in labour availability due to lower birth rates.

 

Bottom line form my perspective is people should be able to work as long as they want too.

 

Just my Opinion

[timeforchange 726]

Ice, you and I are in a similar position (more than our mutual infatuation with CCC). I have worked nearly 40 years and most of the time in the pension plans area. I have seen to many people happily retire but not be happy in retirement. You need to keep active physically and mentally.

[Regent 35404]

North American attitudes toward work are really problematic in so many ways, including relating to retirement. There are so many anecdotes of people being miserable in retirement, or retiring and then going back to work a short while later, or dying shortly after retirement. When our value as human beings and our identities are tied so tightly to what we do to make money, it's no wonder that people suffer a crisis of identity, self value or find themselves with nothing to do in retirement. North American culture drives the idea that we should live to work, not work to live, and that our access to even basic necessities and human rights should be determined by our ability and willingness to work, and how society values the work that we do.

 

Given the current culture around work, and the decline in pensions and people's ability to save for retirement, I don't see the question of if people should feel a duty to retire is one that is relevant to most people. I'm in my 30s and I don't see retirement as even a possibility for the majority of my generation and younger generations. Poverty and a lack of social safety nets is already a huge problem that I don't see improving as the population continues to age.

 

This post also has me reflecting on what retirement vs work looks like. I would certainly love to reach a point in my life where I had savings and a pension that I could live off, and didn't have to worry about going to work to make money. However, there's also work that I do, not just for the money, but because I enjoy it, it's meaningful to me, and it let's me feel like I'm making a difference in the world. I don't think I'd stop doing certain kinds of work even if I didn't need the money.

 

Ultimately, I think we're going to have to see a major shift in cultural attitudes toward work, productivity and human value, as jobs are increasingly automated (and therefore eliminated), and human labour isn't as necessary for creating the world we want to live in. We were supposed to be there already, but instead we've seen a shift in the other direction, to people working longer hours and being more productive. But that is unsustainable, and change will eventually happen. Eventually there simply won't be enough work that is considered valuable, for everyone to put in 40 hours a week.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Whether you should retire at a certain age to provide a job for someone unemployed or under employed is a personal decision and should stay that way. Not everyone has a defined benefit pension that will pay a monthly amount for the rest of their life. Some of us had to save and invest and hope it lasts for the next 30 - 40 years, with no one guaranteeing us a steady income. That can be daunting and working and saving past 65 may make the difference between a comfortable retirement and struggling to pay bills and keep up with inflation.

 

Actually, the larger concern is having enough people to fill vacancies from all those "boomer's" retiring over the next 15 years.

 

Personally, I plan to retire in 5 to 8 years (62 to 65). That will be based on how much I can get for my business and how long the transition would take.

 

Planning for retirement should involve more than financial goals. It should include social goals, among others. I will only be retiring from work, not from life!

[Guest st*****ens**ors]

Like many self employed people, I will probably never retire. I think that for many of my generation and the next couple to follow, retirement, as a concept, will retreat into the mythology of a strange century in which a handful of odd ideas became, briefly, possible for regular folks.

 

I'm fortunate that I love what I do. As long as I retain the capacity to keep going, both necessity and preference will keep me busy.

 

I'll admit, however, that there are times when the thought of not working sounds very attractive.

[Guest S****r]

I love the fantasy of having the luxury of being able to retire one day, but having had my career in an industry that has not provided a pension plan or benefits of any kind, plus having a special needs son that keeps us living paycheck to paycheck, I know I will never be able to retire. And all of the people I work with are in the same position. We are fortunate that we love our jobs, but..... some day I wish I could just have the down time.

 

I think retirement is going the way of the dinosaur, too.

[Boomer 33202]

I think we have to leave the jobs for our youth, they after all will be supporting us through our retirement. The problem as I see it is where are the jobs going to come from in the future as tech is starting to make so many jobs redundant.

 

I went into a Mac Donalds the other day and low and behold they had installed a terminal. I had to order and pay there and then pick up my meal. Talking to the counter person she indicated that they very loosing staff and cutting hours. This was where my son and many other kids got their first job.

 

As another example cabbies are loosing fares to Uber. In 15 to 20 years Uber drivers will complaining about loosing theirs to driverless cars.

 

It is the responsibility of our policy makes forsee and to educate the workers of tomorrow and then put road blocks in the way of those who persist in hogging the jobs past a certain age.

[Ice4fun 78396]

I think we have to leave the jobs for our youth, they after all will be supporting us through our retirement. The problem as I see it is where are the jobs going to come from in the future as tech is starting to make so many jobs redundant.

 

I went into a Mac Donalds the other day and low and behold they had installed a terminal. I had to order and pay there and then pick up my meal. Talking to the counter person she indicated that they very loosing staff and cutting hours. This was where my son and many other kids got their first job.

 

As another example cabbies are loosing fares to Uber. In 15 to 20 years Uber drivers will complaining about loosing theirs to driverless cars.

 

It is the responsibility of our policy makes forsee and to educate the workers of tomorrow and then put road blocks in the way of those who persist in hogging the jobs past a certain age.

 

In many city's including where I live here in St. John's for the last few years there has been a shortage of individuals willing to work at entry level service jobs and this has resulted in companies like MacDonald's importing workers from other countries. Please don't take my saying this as a negative towards immigrant workers as let's face it we are all immigrants it's really just a question of timing. The Canadian labour market has been short on high skilled employees and many of the entry level service jobs are not seen as acceptable anymore to everyday canadians.

 

In my opinion the reality in Canada will be that we will need to encourage many older workers to stay in the job market or we will need to be way more open to immigration.

 

Bottom line for me is people should choose when they want to retire not governments.

 

Just my Opinion

[Helena D'Orville 33237]

In my opinion the reality in Canada will be that we will need to encourage many older workers to stay in the job market or we will need to be way more open to immigration.

 

Bottom line for me is people should choose when they want to retire not governments.

 

I have seen in a Dollarama and a McDonald's employees who were in their mid 70ies. I really don't know what to think about this because I did this kind of job in my 20ies when I was a student, and these are certainly not the best jobs to get. I felt bad to see people in their mid 70ies working there but at the same time if they do need the money, what choice do they have? But still, I find it very disturbing and sad that some people in their mid 70ies have to work in such places because their pension is not enough.

[Boomer 33202]

In my opinion the reality in Canada will be that we will need to encourage many older workers to stay in the job market or we will need to be way more open to immigration.

 

Bottom line for me is people should choose when they want to retire not governments.

 

Just my Opinion

 

I will follow up with a few thoughts about retirement. Canada Pension should only be regarded as very basic income so it is really incumbent for people to save additionally if they want to have a comfortable retirement, and yes there are many retirees who find it necessary to soldier on into old age by necessity. The present government is running into head winds trying to update the pension plan, by conservative thinking that catheterize this as a payroll tax, go figure.

 

We live in a society that must be regulated by our chosen representatives, and how we direct policy on labour and retirement laws is fair. With better care we are living longer, but many of our youth are under employed or unemployed so we must encourage policies that rectify this problem, they are indeed the future. This new generation and immigrants will inevitably have to shoulder the responsibility for an aging population.

[CasinoMing 1967]

Life is funny at best. Some of us plan things - education, courting, marriage, kids, mortgage, career.. and then, ahh.. retirement. We work and work to provide for ourselves and family. Most of us plan to retire from work and start striking off bucket list items (travel, hobbies, etc).

 

For many of us, life doesn't turn out as we "planned". Far from a straight line, our tapestry ends up looking like a figure-8. Then there is the old "live life to the fullest everyday" motto - again, for some of us, we're just trying to survive the day and start new the next day.

 

There's the conundrum. Youth brings with it the health required for travel and other hobbies, but little in resources to execute. Age brings knowledge and wisdom (maybe) and perhaps more resources, but then our health begins to decline.

 

At 47, I was forced into retirement (cutbacks from a previous federal government). But I was fortunate - still fairly healthy and had a few coins in the pocket.. no pension, but a few loonies in my RRSP. As with many things, I saw a silver lining. I get to sleep in until 7am on most days, I get to set my own schedule on most days. I volunteer with various organizations, so my mind and body are active. And the roof is still overhead and there's a table to put food on. While I can't afford to dine at Beckta every night, I can indulge in Swiss Chalet now and then.. and I go canoeing on the Ottawa River instead of taking cruises on the Mediterranean :-)

 

I think the notion of "freedom 55" is outdated in 2016. But our western society depends on "older" folks to retire so that employable youth get a chance to start their adventures. Is it a social duty - yes, I think so - but 'mandatory' retirement by a certain age is becoming a dream for too many honest, hard-working folks.

 

I'll be "retired" for three years next month. If I am careful with the finances, I should be ok. Fewer Starbucks lattés and more homemade coffee in a travel mug! Perhaps the "live life to the fullest" has more to do with attitude than the activity...

 

CM

[Ice4fun 78396]

I have seen in a Dollarama and a McDonald's employees who were in their mid 70ies. I really don't know what to think about this because I did this kind of job in my 20ies when I was a student, and these are certainly not the best jobs to get. I felt bad to see people in their mid 70ies working there but at the same time if they do need the money, what choice do they have? But still, I find it very disturbing and sad that some people in their mid 70ies have to work in such places because their pension is not enough.

 

I would agree whole heartily that it is unfortunate when anyone has to work late into their life just to make ends meet and I am fully supportive of public policy that improves public pension plans and income for seniors. That said not everyone over the age of 50 or 55 is working because of financial necessity so do it because they enjoy their career or for social connection reasons.... I am old enough to retire and may choose to leave my existing employment at anytime but I doubt as long as I have good health I will "retire".

[Grass_Hopper 18263]

As far as responsability goes, I don't think the youth has the right to complain for anything.

 

If, as a responsible ''youth'', we would take care of our elders, even if it's not always easy and hard to manage, or at least make sure they have everything they need for proper living or cares, they wouldn't have to work.

 

As far as semi-retirement goes, I see it more as someone who is just use to work. Some are like that. They stop, they die.

 

Some entreprises are offering 65+ only work job offers. I guess there is really a need.

[roamingguy 300291]

I'm going to sound somewhat selfish here. First it is incumbent on each and every person to prepare for his/her own retirement. And a person needs to retire when he/she is prepared, financially and emotionally to leave work. People when they start working should prepare for retirement, be it get a job with a pension plan, save RRSPs/TFSA's etc. Thinking some young worker starting out is going to support you in retirement is in my opinion just wishful thinking

But he/she shouldn't worry about someone looking for a job and retire just to create a vacancy for them. Why should a employed person's employment be less important than someone looking to be employed if that makes sense

There is also the other consideration that some jobs once a person retires are gone, never to be replaced. So someone may retire thinking they are helping someone, but in fact when they retire, the job is gone for good.

Personally retire when ready and for yourself. Don't retire for someone else

A rambling from a retiree

 

RG

[Helena D'Orville 33237]

I agree with you Roaminguy that thinking of our retirement ahead of time is our responsibility. But I wish that such financial matters were taught in schools in a serious way. I don't know about here in schools, but in France (where I grew up) it is not taught at all. Managing your bank account properly, doing a budget, understanding that paying bills on time works well for your credit, but knowing when to avoid using credit, how to do savings and investments, RRSPs etc... and prepare for life as well as retirement. Therefore, in Europe, a lot of people grew up and grow up thinking that saving or investing is for "others who already have money" or "rich people". There is a book that I really love that should be offered to any teenager. It is "Rich by Thirty (A young adult's guide to financial success" by Lesley Scorgie (Key Porter books, 14.95$). And it is of interest to anybody who has not a clue at all about all these financial matters that are so important. And don't get mislead by the title, the way it is written and presented is very wise and educational, not a recipe to become a millionaire as soon as possible, but to make understand people, especially young ones, that the sooner they start the better, how to do it, and how their lifestyle has an impact on their finances.

 

Everybody brought so many interesting points in this thread that I have changed my mind on a few things since I started it! Thanks everybody.

[Guest S****r]

I think this answers the question.

Pretty grim.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/retirement-savings-broadbent-institute-1.3450084