Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 Well...I though that in 2011 people were more accepting...and that I would never had to write a post like this... This afternoon I saw a gentlemen (well...a men) for the first time. He saw my add on duttlist, sound nice on the phone...We are down to business and everything go smoothly until he saw my pentagram and my tarot deck on my desk... Never in my life was I hurt this way by words...the lashing and the disgusting look that I saw in his eyes was brutal. Yes, something my friends will call me a Witch and I will joke with them about burning witches and the Burning Times...but I know it's just by fun...but when someone look at you with a look like this, saying that you are trash and should died....The pain that flew inside me was brutal I understand that not everyone is fond of religion or beliefs and I respect the fact that this man doesn't believe in the same things that I do... My question is...would you see an SP knowing that she have religon/beliefs different from your? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 For me, whatever spiritual/religious beliefs someone has is not important, as long as someone doesn't try to impose their beliefs on me, and they don't use their beliefs to hurt anyone Frankly I'm surprised at this guy's reaction, no need for him to be ignorant. Your spiritual/religious beliefs shouldn't be of concern to him, would a cross on your wall cause him distress BTW, to answer your question, any SP that catches my attention and I think I would enjoy spending a couple hours with, I would see her, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan or one of the many faiths/practices that provide a person some spiritual comfort and guidance A quick rambling from an agnostic RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drlove 37202 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 Malika, I'm so sorry you had to go through an experience like that. I'm shocked and appalled by this man's reaction. Religious beliefs are very personal, and should be respected. Moreover, I wish people would focus on what's important - i.e. (the kind of person someone is). IMHO, deeds matter more than beliefs. This individual passed judgement without even attempting to get to know you in the least. Whatever happened to "judge not, lest ye be judged?" I say live and let live. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevecurious 42059 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 I find situations where others impose there views either political, personal or in this case religious to be in very, very poor taste. The last time I checked this country grants us the freedom to worship how we wish (within reason of course). If someone is Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Wicca, etc. that is their choice and if I don't wish to practice the same religion or any religion for that matter it is my choice. If people were as quick to learn about others, and their beliefs, as they are to criticize those people/beliefs don't you think we would all be just a little better off as individuals and as a society as a whole? My beliefs are just that...mine. The same can be said of Malikas views and beliefs. I may not have to agree with them and to be completely honest I am unsure if I know enough about them to render an opinion. Having said all of that just because someone believes something different than me does not mean that I am wrong and the other person is wrong. My advice for the "gentleman" in question is don't through stones if you live in a glass house! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest S**a*Q Report post Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry if I don't side with you Malika, but... we are a fantasy... The last thing that someone who's paying 200$+ an hour, wants to see is something that goes against all that he believes in... Hence your pentagram. You understand that being a "witch" is what it is... But others don't... We can hide the photos of our mom or dad, and the like, to show that we're not someone's child or sister. However, we then expect the client to accept our religious views, based on the sigil that we wear around our neck. I believe that our religion is something that we have to hide during our work hours, especially if we have views that aren't respected like the rest of them. *(Or should I say religions that don't fall with the norm...) We don't want clients seeing us as a child, or a sister or a daughter... I think the same falls into seeing us as a "witch", or buddhist or a catholic. I think that he may have had rights to how he felt, as the pentagram is seen as a negative sigil in normal life. He didn't know that it was a Wiccan/Religious sigil, but probably thought that the pentagram had something to do with Satanism, unfortunately... I think that honestly, you shouldn't wear your sigil, as well as your books should be hidden... Just like a crucifix should be hidden from clients... It may be who you are, but it's not who you are for that booked hour. You can't think as a Wiccan on this one... He saw your pentagram and saw satanism or just something that doesn't relate to his religion. I understand how this can happen, I had to deal with me parents once like this for the same reason... We have to be "that" person for the hour/half hour. Catholicism or Wiccanism have nothing to do with who we are, for that moment... We are for them. Period. Missed point of thread... Now seeing someone based on their religious views can't be used... I don't know what most people's views are when it comes to religion... We don't post what we think. Yes it may come out in the long run, but there's no section on my profile that says, I am ..... We don't know what we are, until we meet. It's only then that we can make a decision. So I don't think that it's fair that you wear a pentagram. All in all, being part wiccan, I'm frustrated that he would see it as a "witch" sigil. Yet, I understand why he did. Edited June 20, 2011 by S**a*Q I missed a huge point of the thread... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 Sara I think the issue is the unfounded hatred this man (not gentleman) showed. Never in my life was I hurt this way by words...the lashing and the disgusting look that I saw in his eyes was brutal. Yes, something my friends will call me a Witch and I will joke with them about burning witches and the Burning Times...but I know it's just by fun...but when someone look at you with a look like this, saying that you are trash and should died....The pain that flew inside me was brutal I understand that not everyone is fond of religion or beliefs and I respect the fact that this man doesn't believe in the same things that I do... Maybe she should have kept the tarrot cards and pentogram hidden (but that's a seperate discussion) and if me, it wouldn't matter. But to call a lady trash, and should die, sorry but there is no excuse for that behaviour. Not in the hobbying (hate that term) world, not in the mainstream world From what was posted, I can't defend this guy's actions at all...if it bothered him he should have politely declined the encounter and left RG 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drlove 37202 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 ...I can't defend this guy's actions at all...if it bothered him he should have politely declined the encounter and leftRG Exactly!.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TGirl-Kay 7484 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 It's a sad day when a good god fearing person can't visit a working girl with out being moraly offended by her tarot cards. Hugs to you Malika,he sounds like a jerk. Please don't stop doing whats important to you or hide whats important to you, because of one bad apple. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Megan'sTouch 23875 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 With all due respect, I disagree with Sara. I will not hide who I am during an encounter and I also won't hide my beliefs. Many of my clients appreciate that I'm a confident, opinionated, and outspoken woman. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 20, 2011 Sara, it's true that we sell time and fantasy, but should I really put all of my "real" self apart? People come to see us because they appreciated our personality, physics etc...but should I be lying about who I am? I wasn't wearing my pentagram and my deck was behind my computer on my desk....it wasn't plain in his face. And if I was trying to hide all my books and stuffs...I would loose a big part of my stuff:P Should I hide my books on Ireland because I am going there soon? Now I will probably try to make sure that nothing that can say who I am is around...but it kinda suck that someone did so badly react to the fact that I do wicca. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 With all due respect' date=' I disagree with Sara. I will not hide who I am during an encounter and I also won't hide my beliefs. Many of my clients appreciate that I'm a confident, opinionated, and outspoken woman.[/quote'] My fantasy is meeting unique, three dimensional ladies like Megan, that have amongst their assets, a brain. I enjoy ladies that have confidence, opinions and are outspoken...it makes for interesting conversations RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest tr*****e Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Ok, I'm very ignorant of the difference between Wicca and Satanism, but that's not what I'm going to get into. This guy should have minded his own damn business! People have a right to believe what they feel is right, and if a client feels ill at ease with an SP's beliefs, there are always other options besides that one. If you conceal your beliefs, that's fine, but to deny them is also to deny yourself, so do whatever you think is right in this case. No proselytization needed. People are people, and deserve regal treatment unless they hurt others. Beliefs that don't hurt anyone don't hurt anyone, and no one can be held responsible for another's actions. It's simple logic in a society based on freedom; I don't know why some persist in trying to change people who are bring harm to no one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Ok, I'm very ignorant of the difference between Wicca and Satanism, but that's not what I'm going to get into. This guy should have minded his own damn business! People have a right to believe what they feel is right, and if a client feels ill at ease with an SP's beliefs, there are always other options besides that one. If you conceal your beliefs, that's fine, but to deny them is also to deny yourself, so do whatever you think is right in this case. No proselytization needed. People are people, and deserve regal treatment unless they hurt others. Beliefs that don't hurt anyone don't hurt anyone, and no one can be held responsible for another's actions. It's simple logic in a society based on freedom; I don't know why some persist in trying to change people who are bring harm to no one. I don't want to go into religon discussion on Cerb...but Satanism is to simple extreme what you would call black magic. Or it can be the same as wicca without the most important rule..."if it harm none, do as you will" Wicca is mainly a spiritual religion. There isn't no God or Goddess. you decide in what and who you believe. The only absolute rule is "if it harm none do as you will" wich mean, you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't harm any human being. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ottanon 2930 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 lease dont take this badly, I have no problem if you are wicca but a pentagram might have freaked me out a bit. As an un-educated person to most of this I havealways associated the pentagram with satanic sacrifice. Now saying that to many a swastika means Natzi and to some africans the swastika means something else.. Now your just more intriging to me and I want to see you more . Hobbying allows me to meet people I would not normally do so or have an opportunity to meet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiaBella 10988 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) We are all humans and no one person can agree with everything another does. That's what is so beautiful and wonderful about life. No, maybe he doesn't believe what you believe. And yes, maybe it is proper for this career/job, to not be personal and be a "fantasy". However, there is never ANY excuse to be hurtful, degrading, or disrespectful to anyone else just because their belief system is different than their own. That is called tolerance and understanding. Part of what living in this country means. That's like a client bashing someone because they found out she was Christian and not Jewish, by seeing the SP wear a cross around her neck. Would that somehow make it any more or less appropriate? I think NOT. He should have simply said he didn't want to stay, and leave. No abuse was needed. This isn't an issue of "being a fantasy", but an issue of treating Humans as such. Malika, I feel for you and I'm sending you positive vibes. Edited June 21, 2011 by MiaBella 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Megan'sTouch 23875 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 If ignorance is the issue, reserve judgment, ask questions and educate yourself. Ignorance is no excuse. Posted via Mobile Device 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J******aA***l Report post Posted June 21, 2011 First of all, I'd like to say that I'm sorry you had to go through that, at no time is a client allowed to hurt you or judge you for your religious, social, or political beliefs. Secondly, an SP meets with a client usually because there is some sexual connection or interest....at no time during that session is the rest of your life on limits for discussion or judgement. We are private because we choose to be....that being said, if a personal discussion is started by an sp, be prepared to deal with what other people may think, but even then no harsh words are accceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest S**a*Q Report post Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) With all due respect' date=' I disagree with Sara. I will not hide who I am during an encounter and I also won't hide my beliefs. Many of my clients appreciate that I'm a confident, opinionated, and outspoken woman.[/quote'] I agree with you in the sense that we don't hide who we are... Yet it does no say on Malika's profile anywhere, that she is Wiccan. Therefore the gentleman did not act against to who she was in her profile... How should he react to the sigil though? Honestly? From the client's sense, do you stop what you expected to be your hottest moment of the week, to have a religious discussion about what you deem right or wrong? I'm not standing up for either side, I'm just saying that I understand his reaction. Had Malika mentioned in her profile or website that she was a Wiccan, fine. No problem. However I believe that she doesn't. Therefore, my agreeability with the client. I think had Malika been forthcoming with her religious views, she'd have no reason to be upset, nor would the client. But this is not an area that we normally talk of religious views, therefore I understand both her frustration with the client, and the client's struggle with the SP's views... There is no right or wrong answer here, unfortunately. I do believe that you (who is reading this post) will side with whichever religion/lifestyle has more meaning to you. I'm not siding with either or, one is my friend, the other a possible client... However, I do think of this in a business sense... As an escort, do/can you incorporate religion? or As an escort corporation, should/can you act on religion? Adding this... I never once said that I agreed with the way he handled it.. The abuse being wrong was a given fact, I'm not condoning the way the client reacted at all. I commented and made my points on the larger issue. Edited June 21, 2011 by S**a*Q Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 ok please I really didn't want to start a religion debate her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolette Vaughn 294340 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 This guy had no right to say these things to you just because he saw your personal belongings on your desk. First of all, it is NOT his business to be looking at your personal things and then to comment on them. This is why I hide everything. It's no one's business what we do on our personal time, if we are in a relationship, what we read or what we believe in especially if it hasn't been brought up for discussion. Some clients are nosy and like to snoop. I don't give them the opportunity. That's not what they're there for. If someone said these things to me that I was trash and should die because of what I believe in, they would be booted out in a New York minute with his stuff thrown out in the hallway. I would not tolerate someone attacking me personally and this is what he did to you. It is one thing to disagree with a person's religious belief but he should have kept it to himself or left if this really made him uncomfortable. To put it bluntly ( and because I'm rather angry after hearing this post) he is there to get laid, not for religious purposes. I do not know zip about Wiccans and forgive me if this comes across in bad taste but what does he think you're going to do? Put a spell on him because he thinks you're a witch? People are ignorant and it is not only in this industry, it is everywhere. Live and let live. And my personal motto to this guy... F**k him and the horse he rode in on. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nikki Thomas 23145 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Malika, I'm so sorry you went through this. Nobody has the right to criticize anybody else's beliefs, especially when engaging in this type of exchange. You have every right to be upset, and that guy was totally out of line. Personally, I couldn't care less what religion my client chooses to follow, and I have no responsibility to tell anyone of my own religious affiliation (if any). As far as I can tell, most religions disagree with what we're doing as it is, so I really don't think one's particular belief structure makes the slightest bit of difference. Sex and religion are like oil and water - they just don't mix. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 To put it bluntly ( and because I'm rather angry after hearing this post) he is there to get laid, not for religious purposes. I do not know zip about Wiccans and forgive me if this comes across in bad taste but what does he think you're going to do? Put a spell on him because he thinks you're a witch? People are ignorant and it is not only in this industry, it is everywhere. Live and let live. And my personal motto to this guy... F**k him and the horse he rode in on. yep! He was probably scared that I would change him into a frog or something...(btw no you cannot change someone into a frog) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lowdark 5613 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I'm sorry if I don't side with you Malika, but... we are a fantasy... The last thing that someone who's paying 200$+ an hour, wants to see is something that goes against all that he believes in... Hence your pentagram. You understand that being a "witch" is what it is... But others don't... We can hide the photos of our mom or dad, and the like, to show that we're not someone's child or sister. However, we then expect the client to accept our religious views, based on the sigil that we wear around our neck. I believe that our religion is something that we have to hide during our work hours, especially if we have views that aren't respected like the rest of them. *(Or should I say religions that don't fall with the norm...) We don't want clients seeing us as a child, or a sister or a daughter... I think the same falls into seeing us as a "witch", or buddhist or a catholic. I think that he may have had rights to how he felt, as the pentagram is seen as a negative sigil in normal life. He didn't know that it was a Wiccan/Religious sigil, but probably thought that the pentagram had something to do with Satanism, unfortunately... I think that honestly, you shouldn't wear your sigil, as well as your books should be hidden... Just like a crucifix should be hidden from clients... It may be who you are, but it's not who you are for that booked hour. You can't think as a Wiccan on this one... He saw your pentagram and saw satanism or just something that doesn't relate to his religion. I understand how this can happen, I had to deal with me parents once like this for the same reason... We have to be "that" person for the hour/half hour. Catholicism or Wiccanism have nothing to do with who we are, for that moment... We are for them. Period. Missed point of thread... Now seeing someone based on their religious views can't be used... I don't know what most people's views are when it comes to religion... We don't post what we think. Yes it may come out in the long run, but there's no section on my profile that says, I am ..... We don't know what we are, until we meet. It's only then that we can make a decision. So I don't think that it's fair that you wear a pentagram. All in all, being part wiccan, I'm frustrated that he would see it as a "witch" sigil. Yet, I understand why he did. My personal perspective has always been that sharing time with an SP is a privilege, regardless of the donation. And that the ladies deserve respect and dignity no matter how much may have changed hands. Yes, seeing them may well be a fantasy, but without them and their hospitality to begin with, there is no opportunity for that fantasy (the old chicken and the egg quandry). I could never accept that there are some out there who think that simply because they have donated to a lady to share her time that they can judge or demean her based on their own uninformed views of her faith. And even if he disagrees with that faith, he does not have any right to express his that disagreement in any sort of negative way. If he passed moral judgement on Malika because of her symbols, that reflects his ignorance. His reaction betrays his weak character. This is a man who does not deserve the time of any lady regardless of her spiritual beliefs. If Malkia tried to express them to him in an impersonal matter or condemned his beliefs, that would be a different story. Try and forget him Malika, he was a waste of time and seemingly poorly educated on views he uses to condemn others. If he were a true man, he would have sought to understand your beliefs instead of devaluing you becuase of them. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 We don't want clients seeing us as a child, or a sister or a daughter... I am sorry but I beg to differ with Sara. Everytime that I have a lady guest I look at her (and treat her) as she really is. That is somebody's daughter and sister. She is A person with heart and mind who can feel (the happiness and sadness). She is not some object that I have rented for an hour to briing me joy. I do my best to make the joy mutual and if it is not then I can't have joy either. Whenever I see someone I prefer to know her the real person that she really is, rather than someone acting or hiding her true nature and that includes her beliefs too if she cares to share. As for OP I am sorry Malika that you had to go through this. Even though I am personaly not a religious person but I fully believe that people are free to believe and practice what they believe as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs upon others. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shymale 10234 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 i'm so sorry this happen to you malika,this man had no right to say the things he said to you. you have the right to believe in any religion you want. we have never meet but i've been interested for a while now in meeting with you and knowing you are wiccan will not prevent me from doing so. this guy is ignorent. forget him and move on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
