Cerb book club book choice.

[Guest]

I shall see if I can get a copy of the book today. Looking forward to it.

[Nathalie L 112512]

Peachy, do we post our comments in the social group, or on this thread? Also, we have the entire month of September to read it, correct? I'm a full-time student again next week, so I will need time (personally!) :)

[Guest]

Peachy, do we post our comments in the social group, or on this thread? Also, we have the entire month of September to read it, correct? I'm a full-time student again next week, so I will need time (personally!) :)

 

 

Hello, Nathalie

 

Please post your comments here on this thread. You can comment as you go along reading or you can just post a review when your done reading or at the end of September. Whatever choice you choose if fine. We can start reading the book and start commenting a.s.a.p. I don't want too many restrictions on how the book club will be run. I just want this to be fun for everyone. Understanding that people will be busy too.

[Areez 11906]

Finally completed this read! All i have to say it was intriguing, pleasant read.

 

I know its fiction, but at the same time I could see it actually happen in our world today. Makes me stop, think, and appreciate what I have, and appreciate live as I would say I have it easy.

 

Hope it opened eyes for others that read it too. This book certainly teaches moral value.

 

Great first book chosen by the book club!

[mrrnice2 157005]

I am only several chapters into the book and wished to make a few comments.

 

Let me preface my remarks by stating that this is exactly the genre of book that I would never knowingly pick up to read. I have stated elsewhere that I am probaby what can be classed as am immature reader - Virtually 100 % of the time I select popular fiction a la Tom Clancy, John Grisham, and so on. So a thanks to those who voted this selection as our first book club choice.

 

I have found it to this point to be an easy read and am already feeling somewhat disturbed by this exposure to a life that is utterly foreign to me. I did smile to myself and felt an immediate common bond with Jules when he explained to Baby very early on that when one reads a novel every word actually means something else. It made me think of my high school English teachers and university English teacher. Sometimes, for me, a story can just be a story. :) Voila, a science and math student I became!

 

I was most interested to see the setting being in downtown Montreal and in an area that I am rather familiar with.

 

I am already fascinated by Baby's childlike demeanor on the one hand while at the same time exhibiting worldly knowledge that should be far beyond a person of her years.

 

I have no idea where this book is going, and I sense not to a good place, so the immature reader in me says please let me be wrong. :)

 

Until next time.........

[Guest S****r]

Anyone know where to download it?

[mrrnice2 157005]

Hi Summer. I know that at least in all of the Maritime provinces if you join the provincial library then you can download ebooks the same way as if you were signing out a paper copy. I would guess that is now common everywhere.

 

Anyone know where to download it?

[contraman 5480]

Hi there:

 

I'm a late starter here. Nathalie L told me about this book club on Friday, so I'll be catching up to you.

 

I'm a big fan of Heather O'Neill from her work on CBC Radio (she's done a lot of stuff on "Wiretap", one of my favorite shows), so I'm looking forward to getting to read her.

[Areez 11906]

I dont want to post too much yet in case I'm spoiling the book for everyone else :P

 

My biggest take on the book is how love and attention could go a long way,

Jules does not have much, but it certainly seemed that Baby were happy with just how he loved her, when things changes between them -- she started looking for love in all the other places even though deep down -- all she wanted is Jules.

 

=)

[Luckyme 41401]

Hi there:

 

I'm a late starter here. Nathalie L told me about this book club on Friday, so I'll be catching up to you.

 

 

You are not alone - I just bought my book yesterday and have started to read only a few pages! You have company, lol..

[mrrnice2 157005]

I am now just over half way through the book and I am developing some strong feelings about it. I certainly shall post what I feel but am hoping to hear from some others before I add to what I posted previously.

 

I guess I can say at this time how it emphasizes for me what a privileged background I had while growing up.

[Guest]

I am now just over half way through the book and I am developing some strong feelings about it. I certainly shall post what I feel but am hoping to hear from some others before I add to what I posted previously.

 

I guess I can say at this time how it emphasizes for me what a privileged background I had while growing up.

 

I have read about half of the book too and it does bring on feelings of sadness for poor Baby.

 

I know now that Jules is the antagonist. Just like many drug addicts and recovering addicts he is selfish and he does not have the coping mechanisms to really raise Baby. He has a long way to go to really fix who he is and what he is going through. He is really in no shape to raise a child.

 

Baby is often ostracized because of the way Jules acts. Baby most of the time is forced to look outside of the home for a stable environment. The worst part in this situation is that all Baby wants is to be loved by Jules. Baby wants the attention she so deserves from her father. It would almost be better if Baby would have stayed in the foster home or her old neighbor Mary's home. I feel like Jules coming in and out of her life is almost worse than him just staying away.

 

One thing that is going on in the back of my mind while reading this book is the glimmer of home that the foster home, Mary's home and the community center brings to Baby. It still doesn't bring back Jules to Baby but in an environment spinning out of control, these places provide Baby with temporary stability and safety. These jobs are often thankless jobs and often get overlooked. It is so important that our society understands the importance of these programs. Some of these programs are really useful for people who are in Babies situation. Some of these programs are non profit organizations and they need the support of our society. This book truly makes you dig deep and think of things past your own reality (mine anyway) In the back of my mind I want things to get better for Baby. The feelings I feel for Baby in this book has made me realize that their's children all around the world going through this right now.

 

Like you I wanted to wait for others to post their opinion on the book before posting mine. Since you have posted, I decided okey I'll post my opinion. Now it's your turn, lol.

 

This is just my opinion of the situation. I'm saying I'm right or wrong. I'm just sharing how I feel about the situations depicted in the book.

[Luckyme 41401]

From the few pages that I have read so far, I can say I'm feeling really sad and sorry for the little Baby.

 

You're right, Peachy, she could be better off staying in the foster home even though it might not be the perfect place. With Jules, she might have the bonding and love between them, but the harsh living conditions - poor heating, sub-standard ventilation, cigarette and pot smoke-filled room, coupled with the proximity to Jules' always present drug addict friends might prove to be too dangerous for the little girl.

 

My 2-cents so far.

[mrrnice2 157005]

I am three quarters of the way through the book now. Yes I am going very very slowly because truthfully I am not enjoying it at all and in between reads of this book I am reading things that I do enjoy.

 

"Cerb is a recommendation board so if you don't have anything nice to say....Please don't say anything nice at all." In the context of this thread I am presuming that sentiment does not apply.

 

I have yet to arrive at the denoument but to this point the story content I continue to find disturbing. I am very cognizant that I personally avoid sad situations in fiction because one comes across enough of them in the real world to fill that niche for me. I also realize that I could be accused of being the ostrich and burying my head in the sand to not see what is going on all around me. So I am certain that there is an education component in this novel that for some may involve information that they were not aware of previously.

 

On a more literary level, I find the writing to be choppy and disjointed and perhaps more serious study is required on my part but many of the little 'stories' that Baby recalls seem to be disjointed and do not seem to follow a thread or to me, serve a purpose - other than to demonstrate her confusion as she evolves and is forced from being a little girl to a very premature adulthood.

 

I shall persevere and I hope that I shall be more positive in my next contribution.

 

Am I all alone on this or way off base? I am especially interested now to read some other perspectives.

[Guest]

I am three quarters of the way through the book now. Yes I am going very very slowly because truthfully I am not enjoying it at all and in between reads of this book I am reading things that I do enjoy.

 

"Cerb is a recommendation board so if you don't have anything nice to say....Please don't say anything nice at all." In the context of this thread I am presuming that sentiment does not apply.

 

I have yet to arrive at the denoument but to this point the story content I continue to find disturbing. I am very cognizant that I personally avoid sad situations in fiction because one comes across enough of them in the real world to fill that niche for me. I also realize that I could be accused of being the ostrich and burying my head in the sand to not see what is going on all around me. So I am certain that there is an education component in this novel that for some may involve information that they were not aware of previously.

 

On a more literary level, I find the writing to be choppy and disjointed and perhaps more serious study is required on my part but many of the little 'stories' that Baby recalls seem to be disjointed and do not seem to follow a thread or to me, serve a purpose - other than to demonstrate her confusion as she evolves and is forced from being a little girl to a very premature adulthood.

 

I shall persevere and I hope that I shall be more positive in my next contribution.

 

Am I all alone on this or way off base? I am especially interested now to read some other perspectives.

 

Feel free to give your honest opinion about the book. We are not going to like all the books. Some may like the book some may not. This is also the benefit of the book club to me. To expand my reading selections and find out if I would like different genres of books. All I want to see is everyone respecting each other's opinion. As long as we can have a mature conversation about the book that's all that matters.

 

It does go deep into Babies world. It can be upsetting for us to think of children actually going through the situations in the book. It does open ones eyes and can be upsetting. I keep on wanting something good to happen myself. The reality of it tho is that children in these kind of situations often don't get a fairy tail ending without working very, very hard to remove themselves from their situation. So I'm kind of on the fence about wanting the happy ending or keeping the reality of the situation. I have not read the rest of the book yet so I don't know if their is a happy ending. I will have to see how the author unravels the rest of the story.

 

Are you enjoying the book? Are you not enjoying the book? Please respectfully share your opinion.

[billybob 20128]

My biggest take on the book is how love and attention could go a long way,

Jules does not have much, but it certainly seemed that Baby were happy with just how he loved her, when things changes between them -- she started looking for love in all the other places even though deep down -- all she wanted is Jules.

 

Great summation Areez.

 

It is a very sad story, I can't say that I enjoyed the story, only because it made me sad to think and know that this is a true description of how some children live.

 

I think it's not only a story of the child of a drug addict but in my opinion the child of mentally ill father (and maybe mother).

 

Baby is so intelligent but her environment is killing her chances at a successful future.

 

This is not a book I would normally read and I wouldn't call it a page turner but it's always nice to try something different. I'm glad I read it.

[Redline 953]

I just finished the book and like mrrnice2 had a lot of difficulty reading it, not entirely from the content, which was sad and tragic, but more from the writing style. From reading about the author her personal style is to write as a child would. For me reading that is difficult based on the quick changes in stories and topics that is normal as well as the inability to get invested in a topic as things change to quickly or when just getting invested things change and there is no real closure.

 

The main part I did like is that the book was based on a true location and I am hoping real places within Montreal. I find books that have that in them to an extent do a good job of pulling people in as they get to recognize places and can identify with the locations if they are familiar with them. Not being from Montreal myself I am interested in knowing, from those that are, how accurately the different locations are portrayed, taking into consideration the estimated real time being portrayed in the book.

[Nathalie L 112512]

These jobs are often thankless jobs and often get overlooked. It is so important that our society understands the importance of these programs. Some of these programs are really useful for people who are in Babies situation. Some of these programs are non profit organizations and they need the support of our society.

 

Baby is so intelligent but her environment is killing her chances at a successful future.

 

I have to admit that I'm not far in the book yet. I'm only about 70 pages in and haven't had an opportunity to read in a few days (because of grad school). I have a couple of minutes before I head off to class and wanted to take this opportunity to write a little something...

 

I agree Peachy, these jobs are often thankless. I have a feeling people like Jules would be 'better' fathers if they had more institutional support. Addiction is a mental illness, and harm reduction is a frameowrk that isn't accessible very much around Canada. For example, Vancouver is the only city with a safe-injection site (InSite). Baby would also be better served if there was more funding for the services she's accessed so far throughout the book. I have a lot of friends that are social workers (and I've thought of becoming one myself) and it's a seriously underpaid and overworked type of employment. It's emotionally draining and incredibly difficult on the spirit.

 

Bob, I agree with you as well. Her environment is decresing her chances of a 'good' future. But sometimes I struggle with that too. How are we defining 'good', how are we defining 'bad'? Also, I honestly think this comment and Peachy's go hand in hand... if Jules had more institutional support it would be easier for both of them. It's suggested on and off throughout the book so far that he's been to rehab, and has his own social worker... also, he was incredibly young when he had Baby. It really sucks there was no one there to help him out and teach him how to be a 'good' dad (however we decide to define that).

 

She's really mature for her age, that's for sure. I was really shocked in the moment where her 'friend' talks to her about how they've made money, and how smallBaby seems in that moment. She's mature, but still very 'innocent' and about to be introduced to a very different life, I think (again, I'm only on page 70).

 

Alright. I'm off to class now... those are some of my thoughts for now.

[billybob 20128]

Addiction is a mental illness

 

For the record when I mentioned that I thought Jules was mentally ill I didn't mean his addiction, not that addiction alone is not an issue.

 

I think his bizarre behaviour while sober indicates he has some sort of mental illness, I really don't think he has the ability to take advantage of any social services that would be available to him and Baby which just adds to the sadness of the story.

 

Just my observations.

[Areez 11906]

Great summation Areez.

 

It is a very sad story, I can't say that I enjoyed the story, only because it made me sad to think and know that this is a true description of how some children live.

 

I think it's not only a story of the child of a drug addict but in my opinion the child of mentally ill father (and maybe mother).

 

Baby is so intelligent but her environment is killing her chances at a successful future.

 

This is not a book I would normally read and I wouldn't call it a page turner but it's always nice to try something different. I'm glad I read it.

 

Thanks for your input billybob! :) although I would like to make another comment especially at "Baby is so intelligent but her environment is killing her chances at a successful future." that you mentioned.

 

I slightly disagree with you on that one -- only slight but I'll try to explain.

 

From personal experience and knowledge, sometime hardships shapes one future better then some that have everything handed to them in a gold platter.

Any intelligent person out there, I certainly believed that they will seize the opportunity shall it arise. If anything the hardship would be a perfect motivation to reflect back and change the way future is going. So one should not have to live to relive those experiences again(hardship).

 

anyhow, thats my take on that! :)

[Guest]

Due to the complexity of the situation. Jules may have a natural mental illness or a drug induced mental illness or both. Only a professional psychologist would be able to diagnose and treat Jules. Here is an interesting article to read.

 

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/issues/mentalillness.html

 

The one thing missing in this situation is that a social worker would be assigned to at least check in on Jules and Baby,especially if Baby was in the system. A social worker would be able to point Baby and Jules in the right dirrection, for extra help. Or at lest some kind of out patent treatment. At least I would think that a social worker would be assigned or some out patent treatment for Jules, I could be wrong.

 

I would have to agree with both Billybob and Areez. It would be incredibly hard for baby to remove herself from the situation she is in but is is doable. I think these kind of situations also make children really intune with being street smart. Baby is already forced to act like a little adult.So talking on adult responsibilities shouldn't be too far fetched. But who is going to teach Baby the value of a hard days work. Who is going to teach baby the life skills of coping with the stresses of life. Having a full time job/keeping the job, paying the rent/bills and going to school is very hard for a child to do. Not impossible but very hard.The only way I can see Baby getting out is working hard and a good education and maybe keeping Jules at an arms length. It takes a special kind of strength to make it out of this kind of situation with no real support. I guess it just boils down to working with the hand your dealt with and trying to make the best of it. There is so many road blocks in Babys way. You can only hope she plows through all of them without letting them drag her down. Or without ending up a young mother herself.

 

Anyways, I'm not a psychologist so do not quote me on this. This is just my opinion on this matter. I'm not done reading the book yet. I just thought the topic brought up was interesting. Thank you Nathalie, Billybob and Areez for your opinion.

[mrrnice2 157005]

I have finished reading the book and I am so pleased to say that it ended with at least a ray of hope and promise for both Jules and Baby.

 

The basic premise of the book is based I am certain in an all too real scenario for many children in our society. I am not one who wishes to sweep things under the rug, even though topics such as this are difficult to hear about. In the real world I have no illusions that this sort of story is based on a reality for far too many children.

 

It would be easy to use this book to get off on a tangent about the real world roles of social services, rehabilitation centers, drug abuse treatment and the like. My experience with these, and even here in little rural PEI I have had too much experience with them, these are very difficult and complex issues.

 

The fabric of our Canada is interwoven with a social services system that is overwhelmed, a court system that is bound by the rights of the parent, at times to the detriment of the child, extreme and utter poverty, a privilged stratum and then every other group in between.

 

Our social workers are doing a thankless job and their caseloads are so large and so ultimately stressful that the burnout rate for those professionals is extreme.

 

The book has brought me back again to that reality, the one that I saw when I was working and became so frustrated with while developing a sense of helplessness or even at times hopelessness. I guess having this reminder at my concious level again is a good thing.

 

This next statement about the book may cause some discussion. In reading this book it has simply reinforced a stereotype that I have about Canadian arts and culture. Whether it be film or fiction it seems as though we dwell on the sad and abject subjects rather than the uplifting and purely entertaining. I know I have tended to stay away from Canadian authors for this reason and unfortunately this book choice has not made me think differently.

 

All of that being said, this has been my first ever experience in a book club of any nature and the process and the contributions so far have been fascinating.

 

I am looking forward to reading more contributions.

 

MN2

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Like mrrnice I am also reading other books (I have an upstairs, a downstairs and an outside book on the go). I am three quarters of the way thru and will reserve my opinions til the end. I will, however, concur with the assessment that Canadian authors, screen writers, producers etc need to step it up and quit trying to be so damned artsy fartsy! This authors writing style is confusing and rather amateurish. The topic is reveling and the story compelling but the vehicle is not running. Will follow up once done

[Guest *ig*a**]

Well if your into the fantasy genre then Steven Erikson is a good read and he is a Canadian author.

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[Phaedrus 209521]

Well, a couple of thoughts having finished this one.

 

First up: it was an interesting snapshot of an existence and a way of life that I know almost nothing about, so it was good to read it from that point of view. I found it profoundly depressing, though; many of the characters are stuck in a drug-infused, hand-to-mouth life with little prospect of escape, in a life where the next hit seems to have filled the void where a little love and attention should have been. I don't really see much of a ray of light at the end, either... sure, there's been a change of scene and perhaps an opportunity fresh start, but there were plenty of those earlier in the book and I saw no particular reason to believe the last one will turn out any better than the rest.

 

However, it did make me very grateful that I've never been dumped into that kind of vicious circle.

 

Secondly: the writing style --really-- annoyed me. I'm sure it's a hard thing for an adult to write in the persona of a twelve-year-old, and I'm afraid I don't think this attempt works. There are too many moments where the kid's worldview is interrupted by some "insight" thrown in that feels like an adult trying to be too clever; it's followed by a return to banality in the next sentence. The overall effect is... jarring. It would have grated far less if the main character had been a few years older, which would have made the juxtaposition of adult and childish viewpoints more credible, but that would perhaps have lessened the shock value of some of the events in the plot, and thus reduced the effectiveness of the book as a whole. It annoyed me less as the book went on, but I'm not sure if that was because it happened less often or just because I was getting used to it by then.