Why do I not feel bad about this?

[mister_crufty 4891]

@MNO4,you wrote :"but some sps do this more because they have to and not really because its their first career choice".

Please interview "civilians"and find out how many are in the jobs of their first choice. You just might be surprised.

 

True but I think this is an oversimplification. Me hating my job is not likely to do me serious emotional and potentially physical damage. An SP who hates her job and feels forced into it is at risk of all these things and more.

 

To some extent I would see this as similar to the notion of not wanting to buy goods from companies that employ sweatshop or child labor. I may not be part of the solution but I don't want to be part of the problem.

 

-----EDIT-----

I think this thread is getting seriously off topic.... Perhaps we should all move on

[lipualipua 4704]

Oh, only too real that an intense hatred for one's job can cause severe emotional damage which can translate into physical signs and symptoms. The physical dangers associated with escorting is an occupational hazard , just like how other jobs have theirs. I think escorts who hate their jobs do so more because of society's attitude than the physical dangers. The latter can be minimised through due diligence but the former is a tough nut to crack.

[fortunateone 156618]

Oh, only too real that an intense hatred for one's job can cause severe emotional damage which can translate into physical signs and symptoms. The physical dangers associated with escorting is an occupational hazard , just like how other jobs have theirs. I think escorts who hate their jobs do so more because of society's attitude than the physical dangers. The latter can be minimised through due diligence but the former is a tough nut to crack.

 

 

That is completely true. And keep in mind the many many jobs out there that are physically demanding, or the ones that may not seem to be but the working conditions are kind of hard: mechanic, construction worker, oil rigging, fishing, etc. There are jobs where the workers face more dangers than selective sps, like bank tellers and nurses.

 

I had chronic back pain in one of my jobs, a fairly comfortable situation, but agonizingly boring. Stress of trying to fill in the day, even tho it had good benefits, a fairly flexible schedule, and very well paid at the time, it started to do some physical damage as well as emotional.

[TKDKidd 663]

Not to come off as being rude, but I find the OP's reasoning for hobbying to be somewhat vexing and disturbing. I am sure the wonderful ladies on here see it all the time, men who come to them who are obviously married who just don't find their wive's attractive anymore or just looking for something different, but I find it odd to state that they don't get any and is being forced to go and pay to sleep with another person.

 

No one is forcing you to do anything, especially when it comes to hobbying. You are electing to hobby as a result of your supposed complete lack of sex life within your marriage, which to be quite honest, you might want to consider spending some of your hobby money on a family therapist to discuss this or better yet bring it to her attention. Will most likely save you money in the long run and you will have a healthier relationship out of it.

[mister_crufty 4891]

Not to come off as being rude, but I find the OP's reasoning for hobbying to be somewhat vexing and disturbing. I am sure the wonderful ladies on here see it all the time, men who come to them who are obviously married who just don't find their wive's attractive anymore or just looking for something different, but I find it odd to state that they don't get any and is being forced to go and pay to sleep with another person.

 

No one is forcing you to do anything, especially when it comes to hobbying. You are electing to hobby as a result of your supposed complete lack of sex life within your marriage, which to be quite honest, you might want to consider spending some of your hobby money on a family therapist to discuss this or better yet bring it to her attention. Will most likely save you money in the long run and you will have a healthier relationship out of it.

 

Interesting. You assume a lot about me. My wife is incredibly attractive to me. I'd love to have a physical relationship with her and not need to find sexual release in the arms of strangers.

 

"Forced to pay for sex" is accurate in this case but not quite in the way you mean. More like, "I've decided that I need sex in my life, I have no other means to obtain it, therefore I must pay for it."

 

You don't know me or my situation. My wife acknowledges the problems in our relationship but only wants action to resolve them on my part, not hers. She will not see a therapist or counselor with me.

 

In spite of that, we're immensely compatible in other ways and she is my best friend. I wouldn't hurt her for the world. I don't want the emotional involvement and risk of an affair. The honest thing to do would be to divorce rather than cheating but that is hard to do. To hurt someone you care about that much is not an easy path to choose. In my case, her father is very sick, possibly dying at the moment. I could never kick her when she's already down.

 

But I have needs too. I've suffered sexual neglect for over 6 years now. If you don't think I've tried everything I know how to do to improve this part of our relationship, you have no idea. Eventually you give up. Constant rejection is hard not to take personally and eventually it starts to chip away at your self esteem. Left to her own devices, our sex life would be her jumping me for a 5 minute quickie to get herself off every month or two. Sex is near the bottom of her list of priorities.

 

This year it came to a head for me and I needed to do something about it or be crushed under the weight of my insecurities and loneliness. This is the path I choose. Everyone chooses this for their own reasons and it's not for us to pass judgement.

 

I'm sorry you think that I'm a lazy person choosing the easy way out. I should probably just continue the years of effort at romance, flowers, date nights, romantic trips, etc. for no reward until I die. Right? Because it's the right thing thing to do.

[bewlayb 7480]

I find the premise of this thread a bit confusing (misleading?). You pose the "philosophical" question "Why do I not feel bad about this?", and then you proceed to write almost exclusively about the monetary aspects of hobbying. At first, based on your marital situation, I thought you were covertly seeking guidance on dealing with your guilt or hobbiest remorse. I mean, my first thought when someone voluntarily announces how they feel ("not bad"), is to believe the opposite is actually true (as in "I am not a crook!" Yes, you are!). I don't have a problem with that. I know where you're coming from and if I can help, I will.

 

But I get confused by your fixation with money. Read just about any of your responses and there's some reference to money (costs, affordability, value versus, etc). If this is your primary concern, then perhaps ask a more direct question.

 

What is the real question you are asking us? Are you trying to determine why you don't ( ;) ;) ) feel guilty hobbying, when you think you really should? Or, are you simply trying to justify the economics of the hobby for yourself?

 

Perhaps a better philosophical question would be "How would I cope with my situation if I couldn't afford to hobby?"

[mister_crufty 4891]

I find the premise of this thread a bit confusing (misleading?). You pose the "philosophical" question "Why do I not feel bad about this?", and then you proceed to write almost exclusively about the monetary aspects of hobbying. At first, based on your marital situation, I thought you were covertly seeking guidance on dealing with your guilt or hobbiest remorse. I mean, my first thought when someone voluntarily announces how they feel ("not bad"), is to believe the opposite is actually true (as in "I am not a crook!" Yes, you are!). I don't have a problem with that. I know where you're coming from and if I can help, I will.

 

But I get confused by your fixation with money. Read just about any of your responses and there's some reference to money (costs, affordability, value versus, etc). If this is your primary concern, then perhaps ask a more direct question.

 

What is the real question you are asking us? Are you trying to determine why you don't ( ;) ;) ) feel guilty hobbying, when you think you really should? Or, are you simply trying to justify the economics of the hobby for yourself?

 

Perhaps a better philosophical question would be "How would I cope with my situation if I couldn't afford to hobby?"

 

Interesting points. Really though, in theory the only 'cost' of this is financial so when examining whether it's 'worth it', that needs to be taken into account. The other theoretical cost would be self-esteem related, ie. feeling bad that one cannot get sex other than by paying for it.

 

When I try to look at it objectively, it seems that there is no way an orgasm or two should be worth the price I'm paying. I can jerk off for free.

 

What I find confusing is that emotionally and in every other way I don't have any regrets afterwards. No buyers remorse, no feelings of inadequacy. And if anything my self esteem is far better as a result. So that's where the confusion for me lies. I don't feel guilty about spending money. I don't feel bad about not being able to get laid.

 

I expected to and was surprised that my feelings didn't match my predictions. What it proves is that I'm getting FAR FAR more from this than simply sex. Not sure exactly what but it's pretty awesome and I'm glad I found it.

[bewlayb 7480]

When I try to look at it objectively, it seems that there is no way an orgasm or two should be worth the price I'm paying. I can jerk off for free.

 

You talk about sex and money, yet the statement above suggests you are getting more than just sexual satisfaction from your encounters. Emotional support perhaps? Don't you find this at all worrisome given the way you've characterized your marriage (as just a sex void)? Aren't you concerned you'll find something else missing from your relationship that you didn't even realize wasn't there? And what of your wife? Shouldn't she be a part of your journey of self-discovery, especially when it may affect her relationship too? Or maybe she is! Does she know about your new hobby?

 

I'm not trying to be a sh!t disturber. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how you're dealing with these potentially deeper issues (given your circumstances). Maybe I can learn something. ;) I don't believe it's as simple as you make it out to be... basically surrogate sex for an otherwise happily married man. Especially not if you are going it alone.

[mister_crufty 4891]

You talk about sex and money, yet the statement above suggests you are getting more than just sexual satisfaction from your encounters. Emotional support perhaps? Don't you find this at all worrisome given the way you've characterized your marriage (as just a sex void)? Aren't you concerned you'll find something else missing from your relationship that you didn't even realize wasn't there? And what of your wife? Shouldn't she be a part of your journey of self-discovery, especially when it may affect her relationship too? Or maybe she is! Does she know about your new hobby?

 

I'm not trying to be a sh!t disturber. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how you're dealing with these potentially deeper issues (given your circumstances). Maybe I can learn something. ;) I don't believe it's as simple as you make it out to be... basically surrogate sex for an otherwise happily married man. Especially not if you are going it alone.

 

Yeah. I feel like I'm a failure as a husband because I can't figure out how to make it work. I feel like what I'm doing is evil and unethical and I really should do the honorable thing and divorce her but I'm afraid. Afraid to hurt her, afraid to lose my best friend, afraid to be alone. I justify this hobby because it makes me feel so good about myself and that hasn't happened in a long time.

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to get out of this in the long run. My hope is that I will become a more complete and confident man whom she will find attractive again. I've been working out, taking better care of myself, doing some activities on my own instead of clinging to her all the time.

 

I'm damaged and for whatever reason, this makes me feel less damaged. I'm not sure why and I don't know what the consequences ultimately will be but at the moment. I don't care. I think on some level that makes me a bad person.

 

Happy now?

[fortunateone 156618]

I don't see as a couple that either one of you are thriving. Sometimes leaving someone is the best thing for them, because this way neither one of you have to actually make changes in your lives or grow as people. The other person supports and encourages their partner to only be what they have always been and only do what they have been doing, without changing.

 

Both of you are going to look back at life in 5 years and completely regret how you've spent the past 5 years, but you are going to be 10 years older with fewer options.

[mister_crufty 4891]

That's where it gets tricky. We're incredibly compatible and really good together in almost every way but this one thing. We like each other and have fun together. Sex is just way more important to me than her.

 

The question is whether sex is important enough to justify throwing away an entire future lifetime with a partner with whom you are so very compatible in other ways. A month ago I would have said yes. Now having found this outlet, I tend to say no.

 

But am I just masking the symptoms? Is seeing providers just de-motivating me to look for real solutions to my problems? Is this sustainable in the long run?

 

Questions I'm not ready to answer right now but I hope to learn to understand myself a bit better through all this. I think I'm sharing too much. People don't want to hear about this.

 

But thanks for listening. I don't really have anyone else to talk to.

 

I don't see as a couple that either one of you are thriving. Sometimes leaving someone is the best thing for them, because this way neither one of you have to actually make changes in your lives or grow as people. The other person supports and encourages their partner to only be what they have always been and only do what they have been doing, without changing.

 

Both of you are going to look back at life in 5 years and completely regret how you've spent the past 5 years, but you are going to be 10 years older with fewer options.

[bewlayb 7480]

Happy now?

 

Actually, not. Sad.

[mister_crufty 4891]

Actually, not. Sad.

 

I know that feel bro...I know that feel.

[Hector17 9215]

I really should do the honorable thing and divorce her

 

FUNNY HOW YOU CAN ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTIONS WHEN YOU DIG INTO THINGS...you dont mention if you have kids

 

 

 

because it makes me feel so good about myself and that hasn't happened in a long time.

 

I CAN TOTALLY RELATE

 

 

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to get out of this in the long run. My hope is that I will become a more complete and confident man whom she will find attractive again.

 

DONT COUNT ON THAT...DO THIS FOR YOURSELF.

It has always been my experience that women come to you when you are not looking for them. There is still likely the chance you will meet another woman and enjoy a great relationship...I did!

 

 

 

 

I've been working out, taking better care of myself, doing some activities on my own instead of clinging to her all the time.

 

BETTER SELF ESTEEM WILL HELP...your new physique will give you some confidence and ladies will take a second look

 

 

 

I don't know what the consequences ultimately will be but at the moment. I don't care. I think on some level that makes me a bad person.

 

I WOULD CARE ENOUGH TO PREVENT THE CONSEQUENCES SPIRALLING OUT OF YOUR CONTROL

 

Happy now?

 

Just have fun if you can .

I can relate to you a bit, as I sometimes "overthink" things, but am making an effort to get out of my own way and just roll with the pleasure

[mister_crufty 4891]

Thanks man. Appreciate the encouragement. I truly am doing this for myself and I hope it works out well.

[NotchJohnson 214090]

I have followed this discussion and told myself I was not going to get involved in it simply to be on the safe side of the board. I understand what mister_crufty is going through in his marriage because I am also in the same boat, I love my wife very much and we are totally compatible except for sex. Let me try to explain a bit more without going into details. Something in our relationship happened over 10 years ago and she became depressed (its not something I did) and refused sex completely. I figured I would give her time to get back to normal but as time went by every thing stayed the same.

 

We had a great sex life, 2-3 times a day anywhere in the house, outside, in the pool, in the car, public park etc. When all of this stopped for me I tried my best to cope with it without leaving her and this "hobby" gave me the solution to my dilemma. Nothing about her changed except for the sex, she is a very very attractive women and it HURTS me not being able to have her to myself like I used to. She is starting to give me intimacy now but it took forever to get here. There is more but those are confidential things I don't want to share with all of you.

 

We love each other and I know I would have a difficult time to find someone to give me has much as she does, we have a long time relationship and that is worth so much to me.

 

Sorry if I made this a long story for you all to read. Don't be judging anyone and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. That's the rules here.

 

To finish I just want to say to answer the OP's question, Yes I feel bad but I have needs like everyone here and I cope with it and take in the best from what I do in my life. My decision I have to live with the consequences if she finds out.

[mister_crufty 4891]

Thanks for the support Notch,

 

I just wanted to say that Notch is one of MANY men who have PMed me to tell me how much my story resonates with them. Some on this board have implied that I'm a hypocrite but I think it's just very complex. Everyone walks their own road and it's not as simple as 'leave her'.

 

"Do I contradict myself?

Very well then I contradict myself,

(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

 

-Walt Whitman

[mrgreen760 37785]

Sort of reads like a bad episode of Oprah..... It's all about taking personal responsibility for one's actions.

 

Peace

MG

[iluvmuffins 1764]

I have followed this discussion and told myself I was not going to get involved in it simply to be on the safe side of the board.

 

I had the same concerns as you NJ, but have decided to chime in. I agree that men in our society have the good and the bad of things when it comes to sex. Just as women feel they are made to be thought of as sexual objects, with that comes a certain amount of power or control that they learn how to master. If a man doesn't feel he can get any woman he wants, then some end up resorting to paying for it. I feel women desire sex as much as men, but most are unwilling to go to extremes to get it. That is why when you think of an escort, both men and women automatically think of female escorts.

What would the ratio be of female to male escorts?

I'd say 20 to 1, 30 to 1?

That's why men feel that way. Men will pay for it, women don't need to.

That's also why the percentage of bisexual men keeps rising every year.

 

I don't think I've violated any CERB rules with this post. If I have please PM me and I'll delete it ASAP.

[Achilleswpg 100]

I am new to this myself and shared the same feelings at one point but then came to realize sp are professionals that I pay not for there service but rather not to tell my wife. There's cravings my wife can't satisfy unfortunately

[bob54 2157]

Who the hell invented monogamy anyway ? That concept never existed all through mankind's history untill someone, a few centuries ago, decided the one and only one hypocricy. It defies all research and all statistcs. Humans are naturally polygamous. Dunno why somepeople still have an issue with that. Some natural people despite that they are married and have extra marital affairs; They will still seek variety and pay for it. Otherwise we wouldn't have the SP profession in the makeup of human society. One shoul recognize nature, accept it and enjoy living with it.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Interesting point. I had posted some very similar thoughts in another post:

 

http://cerb.ca/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=423476&postcount=25

 

I think I would feel very guilty if I thought the provider was doing it for other reasons than because they enjoyed the work. But then again, you can't assume. Someone might just be having a bad day. I prefer to spread joy however so I always hope the experience is good for the provider as well.

 

 

I'm wondering if there is often a link when men who pay for it and have those feelings like they are ashamed/not good enough often think the same as the SP and that she doesn't like her job??

 

I had one person I see which isn't too often say to me not too long ago "Don't you wish you could quit this job?" What? Are you implying that this is all I can do and I have no other options? To me, this is an insult. It's simply not true and have left this business a number of times to do other things. I always find my way back here not because I couldn't handle other things but because I want to be here.

 

Most people here know that I speak my mind and trust me, I'm not going to do something that I don't want to do! If I hated this job, I would have been gone long ago. It takes a special kind of woman to do this job and I am one of those women. I am a very stubborn and strong willed person! lol.

 

I've been around for a while and am good at what I do. If you don't find me here one day, you will know I've become bored and decided to go another route which I have done in the past. The hours are great, the pay, each day is always different and I call the shots.

 

So I often wonder when some men come to see SPs with negative feelings, do they automatically assume that we don't like what we're doing either? I realize not every hobbyist feels this way but due to the secrecy and taboos of the business, many may feel that this is a negative thing.

 

I've met some great men and I've never made them feel bad because they were paying for it and they never made me feel like I was just doing this because I had no other choice. There are choices in life and this is one I made on my own accord which I don't feel bad about.

 

We as service providers are here to satisy needs and urges and you pay us to leave without any b.s. I would say we are easier to deal with than one night stands or having a high maitenance girlfriend who rarely puts out. And our services are much less expensive in the long run without the headaches or complications as opposed to going the traditional route of getting laid. You only live once so enjoy it while you can! :)

[fortunateone 156618]

Who the hell invented monogamy anyway ? That concept never existed all through mankind's history untill someone, a few centuries ago, decided the one and only one hypocricy. It defies all research and all statistcs. Humans are naturally polygamous. Dunno why somepeople still have an issue with that. Some natural people despite that they are married and have extra marital affairs; They will still seek variety and pay for it. Otherwise we wouldn't have the SP profession in the makeup of human society. One shoul recognize nature, accept it and enjoy living with it.

 

 

It is believed that men invented monogamy, as a way to control and know if the kids their women have are indeed their own. A natural maternal based society has women having multiple lovers in order to have healthy babies.

 

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2000/10.19/01_monogamy.html

[mister_crufty 4891]

I'm trying to cut down on my posting but I couldn't let this one pass. It's a very interesting point and you may be right but I present myself as a counterexample.

 

I couldn't imagine anyone feeling worse about themselves sexually than I. The magic that I discovered is that most of the ladies I've seen clearly absolutely LOVE their jobs. I never got any feeling of fakeness or insincerity from them at all. This made me feel amazingly good about the encounter. I felt that I was actually pleasing them and they were enjoying the encounter.

 

You have no idea the effect that has on someone as insecure as myself. The one provider I saw who seemed like she wasn't enjoying herself was a real stand-out from the rest and it made me feel bad, like I was putting her out, like it was just a job. This was partly the language barrier but I could really tell the difference.

 

Feeling that you're actually giving someone pleasure is a powerful aphrodisiac and I for one am absolutely thrilled that so many of you ladies love this work. You make me feel like a total stud and that's awesome!

 

I'm wondering if there is often a link when men who pay for it and have those feelings like they are ashamed/not good enough often think the same as the SP and that she doesn't like her job??

[roamingguy 300292]

I'm wondering if there is often a link when men who pay for it and have those feelings like they are ashamed/not good enough often think the same as the SP and that she doesn't like her job??

 

I had one person I see which isn't too often say to me not too long ago "Don't you wish you could quit this job?" What? Are you implying that this is all I can do and I have no other options? To me, this is an insult. It's simply not true and have left this business a number of times to do other things. I always find my way back here not because I couldn't handle other things but because I want to be here.

 

Most people here know that I speak my mind and trust me, I'm not going to do something that I don't want to do! If I hated this job, I would have been gone long ago. It takes a special kind of woman to do this job and I am one of those women. I am a very stubborn and strong willed person! lol.

 

I've been around for a while and am good at what I do. If you don't find me here one day, you will know I've become bored and decided to go another route which I have done in the past. The hours are great, the pay, each day is always different and I call the shots.

 

So I often wonder when some men come to see SPs with negative feelings, do they automatically assume that we don't like what we're doing either? I realize not every hobbyist feels this way but due to the secrecy and taboos of the business, many may feel that this is a negative thing.

 

I've met some great men and I've never made them feel bad because they were paying for it and they never made me feel like I was just doing this because I had no other choice. There are choices in life and this is one I made on my own accord which I don't feel bad about.

 

We as service providers are here to satisy needs and urges and you pay us to leave without any b.s. I would say we are easier to deal with than one night stands or having a high maitenance girlfriend who rarely puts out. And our services are much less expensive in the long run without the headaches or complications as opposed to going the traditional route of getting laid. You only live once so enjoy it while you can! :)

 

And what does that say about the men who assume the ladies they see don't like what they are doing. They likely go through with the encounter anyway, even though in their mind the lady they are having sex with doesn't like what she is doing. What guy would want to have an intimate encounter with a woman who doesn't want to be there. Hope that is coming out right

The ladies I've met are intelligent, fun, and are able to make me feel special. And it is a special lady who can be a professional companion.

I've never got the sense the lady didn't want to be there, and I was never made to feel bad for seeking the company of a paid companion. The services, the companionship the ladies provide are appreciated by this gentleman. And you all have my utmost respect for providing the no strings companionship that you do...so a big THANK YOU

Good post Nicolette

RG