Negotiating

[fortunateone 156618]

@Gegefatale : when insults come in, enlightenment goes out. Craig wrote something which you may have found offensive. If so let him know why he is wrong instead of throwing indirect insults his way. By the way, Craig and I are not arguing for negotiations where the lady has clearly stated her donations. Writing for me specifically, I am referring to out-of -ordinary encounters where the lady has no donation schedule precisely because (a) such encounters are few and (b) conditions under which they occur differ widely, making it impossible for ladies to have a set schedule of donations. This very important aspect of my position has been ignored by most contributors to this thread. I am very certain that ladies I have seen, both Cerbites and non-Cerbites know that I am not a neanderthal or a control freak. I just like debating ideas.

 

 

 

I think some have lumped you into being a negotiator because you keep referring to what you are doing as negotiation.

 

It isn't.

 

You are requesting a rate based on a scenario that the sp has not (for obvious reasons) listed on her ad, website, or if you call her out of the blue and explain what you are looking for. You are asking her to come up with a rate that covers your requirements, that are not already being offered, because it involves often travel, specific times and durations, that she doesn't account for in her service/rates options.

 

 

I think that people are forgetting that, and some of your more confrontational replies aren't helping your case lol.

 

You are not haggling, bargaining or negotiating. You are asking for a quote, and once you get a quote, are willing to pay it.

 

These things are completely different.

 

 

And I agree with the poster who clarified what was being done versus what is being used as the term 'negotiating'. I pointed out the same thing. We aren't talking about negotiation until or unless the client is willing to give up something in order to receive a lower rate.

 

Hagglers don't do that, and in fact often demand more than what is offered for a fee, for a lower rate. If this lower rate is agreed to based on him working within the restrictions and time, he is typically the same sort of guy who then in person continues to push for the things she doesn't provide for that lower rate, and overstays the time paid for.

 

There are very very few exceptions to what happens to sps when they agree to see a haggler.

 

When an sp agrees to see a true negotiator, it is on the condition that he has agreed to something less in exchange for the lower rate. There are few cases where that sp regrets her decision to negotiate that lower rate, because he is not a haggler he does not attempt to do anything that wasn't already agreed to. Before time is up, he is the one getting up and ready to leave to ensure he doesn't overstay his agreed upon time. He is not the guy who then goes into the shower for an additional 20 minutes, or hangs by the door for another 15 just to chat. He knows the agreement and sticks with it, because he knows he wants to continue a good relationship with this sp.

 

 

What many many sps also object to is that the haggler comes up only on first visits, not for repeating regulars. This isn't usually something a regular does, but it is something that a new caller tries to do. So sight unseen, and services not yet performed, he decides all on his own she charges 'too much' and needs to be taken down a peg or two for having the arrogance to decide how much to charge for what she provides.

 

 

And like it or not, to most sps, trying to lowball rates is seen as a sign of aggression, and not someone most sps want to deal with in person. We screen for things like this. Being rude, aggressive, controlling, arrogant, etc, all things we look for in first contact.

 

The worst possible thing a truly nice guy can do is ask for a lower rate.

 

 

However, it is my firm belief that truly nice guys don't ask.

[lipualipua 4704]

@fortunateone: You wrote :" I think some have lumped you into being a negotiator because you keep referring to what you are doing as negotiation. It isn't.

You are requesting a rate based on a scenario that the sp has not (for obvious reasons) listed on her ad, website, or if you call her out of the blue and explain what you are looking for. You are asking her to come up with a rate that covers your requirements, that are not already being offered, because it involves often travel, specific times and durations, that she doesn't account for in her service/rates options.

I think that people are forgetting that, and some of your more confrontational replies aren't helping your case lol. You are not haggling, bargaining or negotiating. You are asking for a quote, and once you get a quote, are willing to pay it.

These things are completely different."

 

THANK YOU.

[craig101 3213]

- Your right (or left) hand: you had it since you were born. Spit in it and jerk off. It's always free.

 

Excellent! I sincerely thank you. Your argument for suppressing ones right to negotiate is so week that insults need to be made to substitute for a lack of logic.

[Guest realnicehat]

@fortunateone: You wrote :" I think some have lumped you into being a negotiator because you keep referring to what you are doing as negotiation. It isn't.

You are requesting a rate based on a scenario that the sp has not (for obvious reasons) listed on her ad, website, or if you call her out of the blue and explain what you are looking for. You are asking her to come up with a rate that covers your requirements, that are not already being offered, because it involves often travel, specific times and durations, that she doesn't account for in her service/rates options.

I think that people are forgetting that, and some of your more confrontational replies aren't helping your case lol. You are not haggling, bargaining or negotiating. You are asking for a quote, and once you get a quote, are willing to pay it.

These things are completely different."

 

THANK YOU.

 

 

Seriously?

 

You spend all of that time writing posts regarding the special circumstances of your requests and how they require negotiation (please see post 152), quote the MW dictionary to prove that "negotiate" isn't a bad word and fits the description of what you do, defend your position repeatedly, and when fortunateone tells you that what you are doing is not negotiating you simply say thank you?

 

I do understand her point, and it is nice that she recognizes that you are not a haggler but still, do you not at this point have to stand by your posts?

[craig101 3213]

Do you honestly believe you've convinced anyone of anything? Most people understand that attempts to haggle with SPs don't generally go down well. I'll grant that you've managed to get one or two like-minded individuals to crawl out of the woodwork, but that seems to be the limit of your accomplishments thus far.

 

If you believe you're winning, tell me... whose mind have you changed?

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

 

 

Nope. You have debunked nothing, convinced nobody, achieved nothing save (probably) getting yourself on a few ladies' blacklists.

 

 

 

I might ask the same of you, lipualipua. Go ahead. I'm all ears.

 

Just to save you both clicking and scrolling, here's my original questions. You've already had all weekend to think about them. You can have as much longer as you like. But the longer you wait, and the more you fail to come up with any sort of coherent argument, the less likely you are to convince anyone.

 

Why would people negotiate and is it good to negotiate is not something I'm arguing for. It is the freedom to do so that is important and not be ridiculed for doing so.

If negotiating happened the way you thought it did it would of been gone a long time ago. I suspect that people negotiate because the men are happy with the rates and services they are getting. Unless they are masochistic by nature why would they hurt themselves?

[lipualipua 4704]

@realnicehat : I thanked her for at least knowing what I am arguing about - something lost on most of the contributors. I thanked fortunateone because she answered a post of mine where my chief concern was the fact that Craig and I are not arguing about cases where the lady has clearly set her donation and she at least acknowledged what I was writing about. Where a donation has not been clearly set, the lady opens herself up to negotiation, which I insist need not be a dirty word.

[Cleo Catra 178382]

For a sex-based website... I wonder why some people are wasting time arguing, instead of looking at photos of gorgeous women... and purrhaps even going out to fuck those gorgeous women.

 

This thread has become page after page of anger directed toward two men who have said they don't think negotiation should be a bad word. I've gotta say - I am starting to agree with them. I don't think anyone should be getting so angry, so insulting, so offended, by opinions posted here.

 

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. Don't like it? Then don't read it. Move on. It's the internet...

 

I don't think anyone in this thread, not ONE, has said that everyone should have the right to haggle a service provider. But rather that some girls are open to negotiating, and some specific circumstances demand it. But no one is 'pro-haggling'. So why is everyone getting so bent out of shape? Because two men refuse to back down and let everyone tell them they're wrong? Why should they? Maybe their opinion is wrong for you... doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. And them thinking something you don't like really doesn't effect anyone else personally.

 

Feel anger about this thread? Think someone is a jerk? Go have an orgasm. Relax. And don't let other people's actions piss you off so much. Feeling happy is much, much more enjoyable.

 

Personally, rather than give my until now snarky reply to people who ask to haggle my rates... I am going to do my best to instead just give a polite but firm reminder that my rates aren't negotiable. Who knows... maybe telling someone that no, I won't do an hour for 200, but I will offer 45-minutes for 180... maybe it could all work out.

[craig101 3213]

Kicking myself for even starting such an important thread. It's now a joke. So sad.

 

I thought forums like this were here so we can discuss and exchange ideas and hopefully learn something from each other. Thats my goal anyway. I have learnt a lot but guess what? That doesn't mean I agree with you.

You didn't post this to discuss or learn anything. You posted with the only intent of educating. You're so convinced you're right that you won't even look at the other side.

I honestly came in here with a open mind. Did you?

 

Your first post was NEGOTIATING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

 

This does not sound like a person with an open mind willing to discuss.

 

So if someone doesn't agree with you on this then they are too stupid to understand or simply not listening.

[eagertopleaze 2366]

I spoke with 3 girls on Cerb last week who changed their rates after I told them I could not afford what they were asking...

 

I did not start negotiating. I simply said, so how much for an hour, and after their reply I said, sorry, I can't afford that, have a great day...

 

And their responses were: well what can you afford?

[lipualipua 4704]

@eagertopleaze: see, what you witnessed last week shows tht negotiation need not be such an emotionally-charged word. As I wrote in post #152 of this thread, every business is about optimization of financial returns. Shrewd business people not only know when to negotiate but also do so with prudence. Cheers.

[LeeRichards 177238]

Time for a commercial break here....

 

Awesome interview .....

 

[roamingguy 300291]

I swore I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore and held back but my last post on this thread

 

 

RG

[Guest A*ro**n]

RG, I think yours is a little more tactful than mine.

 

 

We've past the definition of crazy.

[Gabriella Laurence 301887]

"I pity the man who wants a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process."

-Benjamin Harrison

[lipualipua 4704]

@roamingguy : "Beating a dead horse". Are you likening our debate to the beating of a dead horse? I hope not as the outcome is far from decided.

[Guest realnicehat]

Um.....you're expecting an outcome?

[lipualipua 4704]

@peregrine : please take your avowed tactlessness somewhere else. No one is compelling you to participate on the thread.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I thought forums like this were here so we can discuss and exchange ideas and hopefully learn something from each other. Thats my goal anyway. I have learnt a lot but guess what? That doesn't mean I agree with you.

You didn't post this to discuss or learn anything. You posted with the only intent of educating. You're so convinced you're right that you won't even look at the other side.

I honestly came in here with a open mind. Did you?

 

Your first post was NEGOTIATING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

 

This does not sound like a person with an open mind willing to discuss.

 

So if someone doesn't agree with you on this then they are too stupid to understand or simply not listening.

 

Dude, quit picking fights. There's some merit to your basic position, but others dont agree. As Cleo said, this is the Internet ... strongly suggest you give it a rest.

[Guest A*ro**n]

@peregrine : please take your avowed tactlessness somewhere else. No one is compelling you to participate on the thread.

 

Then have at it my friend. Enjoy chasing your tail.

[lipualipua 4704]

@peregrine : pray, tell, how am I chasing my tail?

[Guest realnicehat]

@peregrine : pray, tell, how am I chasing my tail?

 

Well, for one thing, you seem to expect some sort of resolution to this thread. You have used the words "outcome" and "decided" as if you think that by the end of this thread we will all have agreed upon and signed the Negotiation Proclamation.

 

Surely you've been a member of this board long enough to know how these things work? There is some very useful information here and several good points have been made but that is and will be the extent of it.

 

At this point the best advice I can give you is this:

 

if you're going to take part in a circle jerk try not to get caught in the middle......

[lipualipua 4704]

@realnicehat : man, English is my second language but please give me some credit. What do you understand by the idiom "beating a dead horse"? The meaning I am ascribing to it is this: the futility in continuing with something whose outcome is already decided. Check out this meaning yourself. So, when roamingguy likens the thread to beating a dead horse, he means continuing with it is futile because the outcome has been decided already. Which naturally elicits the reaction: decided how? Perhaps he should have communicated what he meant clearly.

[Guest realnicehat]

@realnicehat : man, English is my second language but please give me some credit. What do you understand by the idiom "beating a dead horse"? The meaning I am ascribing to it is this: the futility in continuing with something whose outcome is already decided. Check out this meaning yourself. So, when roamingguy likens the thread to beating a dead horse, he means continuing with it is futile because the outcome has been decided already. Which naturally elicits the reaction: decided how? Perhaps he should have communicated what he meant clearly.

 

First of all, it is a pretty rare occasion that Roamingguy doesn't communicate clearly and this is not one of those occasions.

 

The meaning you ascribe, while close, is not entirely accurate. I suggest you check out the meaning, I'm pretty clear on it.

[lipualipua 4704]

@realnicehat : the meaning I have given you is the original one. At times people substitute a wrong idiom for the original, correct one. For example : People often say : you can't have your cake and eat it instead of the correct "you can't eat your cake and have it". The second form is the correct of the two as it is logical - after you have eaten your cake, it is gone. Thus one cannot enjoy two opposite conditions at the same time, which is the meaning of the idiom. The mere fact that the erroneous one is at times said does not make it correct. By the way, I am not lecturing you on idioms, just using an example to prove my point. Check out "beating a dead horse" for yourself.

[EvaAdore 7767]

I feel really sad that an important topic has been debased to arguing the semantics of idioms and turned into a shit-flinging contest.