Negotiating

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Lipaulipau, you are persistent, I'll give you that.:)

 

Clearly you are coming from some position that I don't understand. Yes, you are "allowed" to negotiate ANYTHING but does that mean you should? To me that's a rhetorical question but maybe it's not for some people. Btw, suggesting to someone what "you" might think their "optimum" whatever should be, is just another form of negotiating without owning it.

 

Being cheap(trying to obtain something for less than it's worth) cheapens(reduces the dignity of) the SP experience, the SP and you. Is that what you want? Another rhetorical question.

 

We've all made our opinions known and all I can say is, it's a free world, live it the way you choose. Things got heated on here but it's important that we can voice our opinions. I don't wish you any ill will, I just have strong opinions in this thread too.

 

Take care. Same goes for Craig101

[Guest c**io**m7]

I am there for a good experience. If it's above my range, I am honest about it...I don't offer less...simple.

I have had ladies offer discounts and, in this business, that is their prerogative.

 

Hell, I have had ladies extend and almost double time because we were so in to the moment. An apolgy and offer of extra has more often been met with "it was my choice..." I even had one lady, after a morning appointment, ask me to come back after work...no fee, because the morning session was so damn good. lol...

 

Be good to the ladies and sometimes little surprises pop up...but, rarely.

 

Be respectful, pay the asking rate or politely decline. Do NOT ask for lower rate...simple.

[PistolPete 61421]

HOLY SNAP! almost 13,000 views and 316 posts and where are we? Ahhh still in negotiations. ;) Carry on folks, only my 2nd post on this. :)

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Wow my last post but who the fudge created a poll when I am the original op. had I known the impact I would have.

 

Anyhow.....have fun y'all!

[HalifaxMan58 2206]

It appears the vote says it all in a rather large majority. I wouldn't negotiate even if the SP said it was ok to do so. From what I've seen on an average rates can go from 100 hr upwards. It is quite simple actually, get what you can afford, or save up until you have the proper funds.

 

I would like to add that I've had just as good a service and I may go so far as to say even a better time with the lower rates SP. ( I know it is not fair to compare, but it is human nature to do so) Just because the rate is higher doesn't always mean you will get a better service, IMHO. I don't want to open another can of worms in a already heated debate, just saying what I've found as an inexperienced newbie.

 

Every SP puts whatever value on their service they feel is right for them. I think we should feel Privileged to be able to have spent some time with these beautiful ladies, most of us would not of had a prayer in hell of meeting.

 

My 5 cents worth.

[mod 135639]

Wow my last post but who the fudge created a poll when I am the original op. had I known the impact I would have.

 

Anyhow.....have fun y'all!

 

I added the poll, I wanted to stick the thread and use it to help educate new members to the site. So that they can see how wrong it is to do this. The handful of people who voted YES (It's ok) compared to the overwhelming positive results for NO (It is not ok) clearly show this thread was needed and is a issue that needs attention.

 

This thread also lets me see who the trolls are on the site as they can't help themselves on a popular emotional thread like this. They have to post to cause drama with stupid comments. Makes it easier to weed out the unwanted members here.

[craig101 3213]

I added the poll, I wanted to stick the thread and use it to help educate new members to the site. So that they can see how wrong it is to do this. The handful of people who voted YES (It's ok) compared to the overwhelming positive results for NO (It is not ok) clearly show this thread was needed and is a issue that needs attention.

 

This thread also lets me see who the trolls are on the site as they can't help themselves on a popular emotional thread like this. They have to post to cause drama with stupid comments. Makes it easier to weed out the unwanted members here.

 

So it is not allowed to have a an opinion that is against the majority? I thought this was a forum where we can discuss?

Even if my beliefs are found to be wrong that in no way makes me a troll.

Disagree with me if you like but I expect an apology for being called a troll.

If this ends my days on cerb so be it. What a dangerous world we live in when expressing different ideas is considered trolling.

[Guest realnicehat]

This thread also lets me see who the trolls are on the site as they can't help themselves on a popular emotional thread like this. They have to post to cause drama with stupid comments. Makes it easier to weed out the unwanted members here.

 

So it is not allowed to have a an opinion that is against the majority? I thought this was a forum where we can discuss?

Even if my beliefs are found to be wrong that in no way makes me a troll.

Disagree with me if you like but I expect an apology for being called a troll.

If this ends my days on cerb so be it. What a dangerous world we live in when expressing different ideas is considered trolling.

 

mod did not say you were are troll for expressing a different opinion. He suggested some were trolls for posting "stupid comments". While your opinion was unpopular I don't think anyone could say that your posts were stupid.

 

If an apology is in order I suspect it may not be from him......

[gc1968 2033]

I've been following this thread since it started, and have to say it has been informative at least, if not cyclical at times. In reading through it, an old quote keeps coming to mind, which seems very apropos, at least to me. Strangely (given the nature of the topic), it comes from the Bible.

 

1 Corinthians 10:23 NIV - "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

 

In other words, to the advocates of negotiating (or haggling, as the case may be), yes, it is within your rights to negotiate all you want, but be prepared to accept the consequences of doing so. Sadly I think for the SP's, not all men feel there should be any consequences at all for their actions and become rude/insulting/obnoxious etc, and I think these are the type of people that the SP's are most against.

 

And to those who might say something along the lines of "I told her I couldn't afford her rates so she asked me what I could afford, so she was the one who started negotiating" , this is also a possible consequence, so its covered above.

[steveyK 4311]

So Craig, what is your mission here? You seem to need to reply to every post that discusses your way of thinking, and each one you respond to is in a contrary manner, soooo why don't you abandon the thread, find the provider that is suitable for you, instead of trying to create waves in our otherwise peaceful community!

[craig101 3213]

So Craig, what is your mission here? You seem to need to reply to every post that discusses your way of thinking, and each one you respond to is in a contrary manner, soooo why don't you abandon the thread, find the provider that is suitable for you, instead of trying to create waves in our otherwise peaceful community!

 

Thats a good idea. BTW i have 42 posts in over 3 years here. Not much of a mission here. People have been asking for replies so I'm replying.

[steveyK 4311]

Thats a good idea. BTW i have 42 posts in over 3 years here. Not much of a mission here. People have been asking for replies so I'm replying.

 

Thanks, I usually have good ideas like that, sad to see you go though. I would have looked up all your posts so I could be more familiar with your online Cerb persona, but your profile is blocked! And finally, my last word, we are not asking you to personally reply to your thread when we quote you, we are continuing a discussion. JMHO

[craig101 3213]

Thanks, I usually have good ideas like that, sad to see you go though. I would have looked up all your posts so I could be more familiar with your online Cerb persona, but your profile is blocked! And finally, my last word, we are not asking you to personally reply to your thread when we quote you, we are continuing a discussion. JMHO

 

So Craig was is your mission here?

I thought that was a question. lol Phaedrus was complaining I wasn't responding to his posts and you are saying I am responding to much.

Can't win either way

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

So Craig was is your mission here?

I thought that was a question. lol Phaedrus was complaining I wasn't responding to his posts and you are saying I am responding to much.

Can't win either way

 

 

From what I can see here in this post from Phaedrus, I can not see how he was complaining about you not posting ?? If I am wrong, then omit my responds....but I see clearly that you feel a bit out numbered?

 

Not sure how to double quote, so here is a link from Phaedrus...about this thread..

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=493991#post493991

[craig101 3213]

From what I can see here in this post from Phaedrus' date=' I can not see how he was complaining about you not posting ?? If I am wrong, then omit my responds....but I see clearly that you feel a bit out numbered?

 

Not sure how to double quote, so here is a link from Phaedrus...about this thread..

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=493991#post493991[/quote']

 

This is what Phadrus said

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

Just responding to questions.

[CharlotteQ 625]

Can I ask....

 

If you set up an appointment, and the client shows up...sets out the perameters of the session, both parties agree, so the appointment continues.

 

During the appointment there is Digits, nudity and name calling such as...oh lets say "Stupid Bitch" which would be their way of dirty talk, which I have never experienced before. Needless to say, when oral is expected, and anyone who sees me knows I provide oral with no hesitation, but with this particular person, their nether regions smelled really badly like urine, and the position I was in, he placed his nether regions on my face. I requested for him to take a shower.

 

As he was showering, this was during a duo session, i expressed to the other woman I felt degraded and shouldn't have to experience such dirtiness so close to my face, I took a portion of my fee, not the full fee only a portion, and left. primarily because I shouldn't be called a Stupid Bitch then be told to thank the client for the "Compliment" and then have such dirtiness so close to my face, the smell was unbearable...

 

so after all this, the client then texts me and tells me I stole that fee and that I need to give it all to the other girl at the duo session or he writes a bad review. now, is this negotiating? I don't think I should provide a free service by having him see me naked, provide Digits and have his nether regions on and around my face when he was completely unwashed before hand. I thought to take nothing, but I did provide some service, until the uncleanliness and name calling came out and then afterwards the threat of a bad review. what is your opinion on this situation?

 

should I have negotiated a price with such a crude customer?

[steveyK 4311]

Soooo, 32 of your threads on this topic? Hmmmm, no mission here? And to think that you brought other members' good names on here to defend your position... 32 posts, time to give up, I am :exagerefesses::butt:

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Miss Charlotte,

NOT AT ALL, the reason being, if you do, you may find yourself in the same dilemma in the future. If this person get's away with this now, then what stops them from doing it again and again?

Eventually you have nothing to negotiate!

 

I have to add, it is paramount for each of us, to clearly explain our boundaries and limitations. To clearly define what we expect out of an encounter with each other.

[CharlotteQ 625]

Thank you Miss Sophia V's,

 

I thought maybe I was in the wrong, but I don't want a bad review anywhere but also don't want people to think they can get anything free off of me. I did not take my full fee as I did not provide the "Full Service" per say...I took what I thought was fair..

 

That an I have a right to not want to see a client especially after being called names, which I did agree to "Dirty Talk" but didn't expect to be called a stupid bitch and then be told to thank him for the "Compliment".

 

I have never experienced that ever, I have always had very respectful men come to see me, this was the one and only time I have ever walked away from an appointment. Anyone who knows me, knows I am majorly laid back and super easy to get along with..

[canuckhooker 19202]

Oh heaven help me on this one.

 

Back to two very important points one of which I make every time someone posts a poll on here. Their are people who make very good livings making questionnaires and polls. The reason for that is that it is a well documented science and to post a bias free poll takes a lot of forethought and analysis.

 

On the poll, with all due respect to mod, the question is wrong, and misleading. The question should be: : "Is it OK to negotiate, or it is wrong to negotiate." The qualifiers about advertising are red herrings that appeal to personal bias. Their are other qualifiers that would give a different result. On top of that, posting a flawed poll after this thread has been active so long is not valid either. A lot of people who got tired of the arguing will not come back to this thread or offer their opinion. Others won't answer what they see as a poll that can be misleading or misinterpreted. Sorry, but that is true. And even then, it misses the key point I have made now three times.

 

Despite all the "it is a different kind of service", " I am selling companionship only" disclaimers etc., if a provider offers any service as a special, offers different rates for different services, offers certain services at a discount or premium, offers special rates, duo rates etc.. then they are treating the service they sell as a commodity. When you do that, then people negotiate. That is how a free market works.

 

If you don't want to discount, then say, "no negotiating" and stick to your guns. The problem is, as I have said before, some will not hang up. They want the money, so they will haggle, and then complain about it later. It takes two to negotiate, and if you say no, give the reason why, and hang up, then what is the issue? I know what it is, but I am not going to open that can of worms.

 

As for the comments about how different this service/job is, the emotional toll, the stigma etc. Well this is not the only job that presents that challenge. Ask a paramedic who has to respond to a multi-vehicle accident how they feel about their day; or a fire fighter who has to rush into a burning building to try and save lives or worse carry out the victims of the fire, often children; or the police office who has to answer a domestic violence call, with all the drama that entails; or a soldier who watches as some ass blows up a school full of children because women are allowed to attend, or has to tie a tourniquet around his good buddy's leg because he stepped on a land mine; or a support worker in a palliative care facility knowing all their patients are going to die; or a mental health worker who has to deal with people who's behaviour is erratic, dangerous, confusing, frustrating, because of the nature or their illness; etc. etc.

 

And all of those very essential people, all negotiate their salaries, pay or benefits. And they more likely than not get taken for granted and get very little thanks for the job they do. For example the infamous Rae Days in Ontario, where most of those folks got an unexpected, unpaid, vacation so the premier could balance the budget.

 

I am going to shut up now, other than to say, if you commodify your service then don't get surprised when people negotiate. If you don't want to negotiate then end the conversation don't offer specials, don't offer a list of acronyms of what you provide. Ranting on here is never going to solve your problem, and for me, it just tells me who I want to avoid.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

This is what Phadrus said

 

I asked a couple of days ago for someone to explain how attempts to haggle could possibly work out in a client's favour, in the long run. Nobody has responded. I was hoping you might, since you seem so sold on the idea... but thus far I have been disappointed (although not, I must admit, surprised). So, another chance. Care to make an attempt this time?

 

Just responding to questions.

 

Exactly what was your response to this question? I can't find it. You instead make replies that just continue your justification of your views, without actually adding or explaining your view.

 

This thread also lets me see who the trolls are on the site as they can't help themselves on a popular emotional thread like this. They have to post to cause drama with stupid comments. Makes it easier to weed out the unwanted members here.

 

Troll - Urban dictionary definition

 

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevance to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue

 

Straw Man - Urban dictionary definition.

 

2. A debate technique used to refute an opposing view by misrepresenting the opposing side and then attribute that deliberately misrepresented view to the opponents.

Someone should start to write a straw man document before we can have discussion for all the details.

 

The opposition party has conjured up a bogus image before proceeding to knock it down. They are using that bogus image or fallacy as a straw man for the false and scurrilous claim

 

I agree with a lot that you wrote. Do you know what a straw man argument is? I never said that a lady should negotiate. Her word is final and should always be respected. I believe the gentleman has the right to ask without shame and I believe the lady has the right to not negotiate without shame.

 

When you negotiate with a lady, you are bringing shame to her, no matter what way you look at it. If a lady wants to open the negotiation with you, that is her choice, however, when you start the negotiation, it never amounts to any good.

 

Your argument is so week and pathetic that were now playing the " he has more posts game" So new posters points aren't valid? We should all leave?

 

Am I wrong, or are you trying to inflame here?

 

This is why I don't post because of people like you who use straw man arguments.

I'm sorry that I'm not a brown noser like some posters and don't tell you exactly what you want to hear to score points.

 

Excellent! I sincerely thank you. Your argument for suppressing ones right to negotiate is so week that insults need to be made to substitute for a lack of logic.

 

Those numbers seem to be getting better and better as we go on. It started off like 20 to 0. The more we talk about it and the more we discuss the more those numbers are going to swing.

People who hate negotiating are going to be louder and more vocal.

People who think its ok to negotiate are more likely to be secretive and quiet

about it.

I almost didn't post myself.

 

BTW, the new numbers are even higher in favor of not negotiating...90.5% say no, (38 replies), 7% say yes (3 replies) and 2% on the fence (1 reply)

 

I thought forums like this were here so we can discuss and exchange ideas and hopefully learn something from each other. Thats my goal anyway. I have learnt a lot but guess what? That doesn't mean I agree with you.

You didn't post this to discuss or learn anything. You posted with the only intent of educating. You're so convinced you're right that you won't even look at the other side.

I honestly came in here with a open mind. Did you?

 

Your first post was NEGOTIATING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

 

This does not sound like a person with an open mind willing to discuss.

 

So if someone doesn't agree with you on this then they are too stupid to understand or simply not listening.

 

Just a question here. Are the people here that are against negotiating against it for this industry only or against it totally in all maters as a matter of principal.

 

So, I truly understand why you don't get it.

[craig101 3213]

Exactly what was your response to this question? I can't find it. You instead make replies that just continue your justification of your views, without actually adding or explaining your view.

 

 

 

Troll - Urban dictionary definition

 

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevance to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue

 

Straw Man - Urban dictionary definition.

 

2. A debate technique used to refute an opposing view by misrepresenting the opposing side and then attribute that deliberately misrepresented view to the opponents.

Someone should start to write a straw man document before we can have discussion for all the details.

 

The opposition party has conjured up a bogus image before proceeding to knock it down. They are using that bogus image or fallacy as a straw man for the false and scurrilous claim

 

 

 

When you negotiate with a lady, you are bringing shame to her, no matter what way you look at it. If a lady wants to open the negotiation with you, that is her choice, however, when you start the negotiation, it never amounts to any good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, the new numbers are even higher in favor of not negotiating...90.5% say no, (38 replies), 7% say yes (3 replies) and 2% on the fence (1 reply)

 

 

 

 

 

So, I truly understand why you don't get it.

 

Was there any point to your post? Just rehashing was has been said many pages ago. You didn't add anything new. I'm glad you understand what troll and straw man are.

If someone doesn't agree with you he must be a troll.

Wow

If I don't agree with you I must be not listening. lol

 

I don't have anything more to add. C.H. said it best. By far the best post here.

[steveyK 4311]

Can I ask....

 

If you set up an appointment, and the client shows up...sets out the perameters of the session, both parties agree, so the appointment continues.

 

During the appointment there is Digits, nudity and name calling such as...oh lets say "Stupid Bitch" which would be their way of dirty talk, which I have never experienced before. Needless to say, when oral is expected, and anyone who sees me knows I provide oral with no hesitation, but with this particular person, their nether regions smelled really badly like urine, and the position I was in, he placed his nether regions on my face. I requested for him to take a shower.

 

As he was showering, this was during a duo session, i expressed to the other woman I felt degraded and shouldn't have to experience such dirtiness so close to my face, I took a portion of my fee, not the full fee only a portion, and left. primarily because I shouldn't be called a Stupid Bitch then be told to thank the client for the "Compliment" and then have such dirtiness so close to my face, the smell was unbearable...

 

so after all this, the client then texts me and tells me I stole that fee and that I need to give it all to the other girl at the duo session or he writes a bad review. now, is this negotiating? I don't think I should provide a free service by having him see me naked, provide Digits and have his nether regions on and around my face when he was completely unwashed before hand. I thought to take nothing, but I did provide some service, until the uncleanliness and name calling came out and then afterwards the threat of a bad review. what is your opinion on this situation?

 

should I have negotiated a price with such a crude customer?

This was not a negotiation, its called Blackmail! You did the right thing in leaving and taking a cut of the fee, and I hope you learned about setting your fees and services and how to properly communicate this prior to your appointments. Lastly, hopefully you are not doing duo's with this person anymore.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Was there any point to your post? Just rehashing was has been said many pages ago. You didn't add anything new. I'm glad you understand what troll and straw man are.

If someone doesn't agree with you he must be a troll.

Wow

If I don't agree with you I must be not listening. lol

 

I don't have anything more to add. C.H. said it best. By far the best post here.

 

If you want to persuade anyone that what you do really is negotiation rather than just haggling, then for the second time: what do you offer in return for the discount?

 

I suspect I can guess the answer to that question; the fact that you ducked it reinforces those suspicions.

 

Exactly what was your response to this question? I can't find it. You instead make replies that just continue your justification of your views, without actually adding or explaining your view.

 

Craig I have no issue with someone having an opinion different then my own. However, I do have an issue with someone who continues to say the same thing over and over, in a way that is really offensive. In my opinion, unless you decided to actually contribute something New, or at least answer the questions others have asked you, you are trolling to inflame others and create drama.

[lipualipua 4704]

@Canuckhooker : it is good you pointed out how flawed the poll is. I had noticed it the instant I saw it but just imagine the chorus of "here we go again" that would have greeted my criticism had I offered it. Someone has even labelled me "quasi intelligent". On this thread I have had occasion to point out another flaw in a conclusion that someone also made from "polling". Really Statistics 101 stuff. Thank you. As regards your second point, I have nothing more to add. Cheers.