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Back from reinventing the wheel and in a ranting mood... What has happened to society? I used to read all the time how the fashion magazines were evil because they gave women the idea that you had to be paper thin or you were ugly. Have guys been looking at these magazines and jerking off for too long too? Is this now the idea that men have too, that women must be spinners or they shouldn't talk about them? Is this a worldwide thing or is this just an area specific thing? Why the rant you say? Ever since joining this site this has been something that I have been noticing more and more. The hobbiest community seems to be a spinner world. If you aren't a spinner you better have some really big boobs. What do I mean by this? Go through the recommendation section, and note the number of comments on a spinners recommendation from guys saying they can't wait to see her. Every single picture thread you see most of the the pictures posted are spinners, look through the beatiful behinds and beautiful breast threads and you will see what I'm talking about. Most of the pictures are spinners. If a picture or a recommendation is posted of a spinner it gets tons of comments from hobbiest saying that is such a great pic or I can't wait to see her, etc. But go through the recommendation and pics of the girls who aren't spinners or don't have huge boobs and you will notice they get a small percentage of the comments that a spinner gets. Is it not okay to be attracted to women with curves? Can you not talk about it out loud? Or is there a board that is just for girls with some curves? Many many times have I seen the comment she was great but she's not a spinner, or I had an awesome time but I'm not gonna write a reco because she's not a spinner, or she's not my normal body type so I'm not gonna write a reco, etc. So if you see a girl that's not your normal body type you can't talk about it??? I mean good grief some guys even said that spinners have tighter pussies than girls with curves, wtf created this mindset. There was even a comment once that a girls age was too old to be a spinner (didn't know that spinners had to be a certain age too???) This is what I refer to as the spinner complex in my heading. Why have guys gotten it in their head that it is not okay to talk about girls that aren't spinners, to say out loud that they are attracted to them, that their pics are hot, that they want to see them or better yet have seen them? Heaven forbid I might be attracted to a girl that doesn't weigh 110 pounds. Explain this to me??? Because I have been here for a bit and this is something I have never understood and it almost sickens me to see and hear because these girls are awesome girls and I know they do good business but they get maybe 10% of the comments and recos a spinner gets. Just the thoughts of a half awake delusional broken man who felt like speaking out, so if you disagree feel free to rebuke and educate me.

There are many things that are wrong in this world and the first step towards change is to talk openly about them. That's how I see it anyway. If everybody keeps quiet about what's unfair, how can we hope to evolve as a society?

One of the topics that came up today at the lunch was the fact that a few members are rather vocal about the fact that they don't like the ladies being involved in poly events? For the life of me I cannot figrue this out, is anyone niave enough to believe that these women only see a few people? What diference is it if it is 4 guys in one day or 4 guys at the same time? Also I thought this group would be the last ones being judgmental about someones sexual preferences? As I see it non of us are out celebrating on the streets about our sexual choices, when was the last time you were in a meeting at work and mention in casual conversation that you see escorts? However here is a place that you express your irregular sexual habits and compare notes, why would you condem someone for having a slightly different fantasy than you??? 2 ladies and one guy always seems popular and has not gathered the scorn of cerbites, why is 3 ladies and 6 guys or 4 guys and a lady etc... any different? Please help me understand because at this point I just think there are some stupid and ignorant people on this board. I am sure there is a good reason I just have not discovered it yet. BTW the biggest poly group I have been in is sitting in perverts row with 50 other guys watching a lady undress on stage, does not get much more poly than that.

Hear, hear Dummpy! While I am not quite ready to move into a GB myself (haven't even experienced a duo yet, have to ease into things as they say;)) I have absolutely no judgment on others who do so. In fact the reason I am in the group is because the writeups and events sound like a blast (literally) and I may venture over there some day. Is anyone here naive enough to think that the person they see as a favorite does nothing else with others? Is she not allowed to spend her time in any way she chooses? When she sees you solo the next time is she any different because she engaged in something you don't want to try? To reinforce what dummpy said about some on CERB frowning on different types of recreation that others on CERB enjoy: 'people who live in glass houses should not throw stones' No one in the poly group forces anyone to read the threads, to attend an event or pass judgment on those who choose not to try, the group is there to try and facilitate new experiences...isn't that why people come to CERB...for experiences, whether they are simply or complex. At the end of all this the message should be that it's none of your business unless you want to attend, otherwise move on and leave others well enough alone.

Please, whatever you do don't contact other members looking for the street address,phone number,rates for an SP. Do that on your own, simply send a pm to the lady you are inquiring about, (don't worry lads... the ladies don't come out of the computer screen and bite you). I get numerous requests from(newer) hobbiest requesting info on the ladies,that she does not even put in her advertisement. Why would I answer that for you? What makes you think I would know? Did you read the recommendation section? I have protected the SP'S I've seen by sending a pm to them, "that so and so contacted me looking for your address, and phone number " those ladies have thanked me for not giving out that info if it was not posted in their ad. Remember YMMV... and the please, just ask yourself, you will not get that info from me.

SA, I think you need to realize that despite Suri's choice in agency some other new ladies may come across this thread looking for answers as to which path to take. In this case, having first-hand dancers giving their opinions on their life experiences in the real world of being a dancer (from the other side of the stage) and SPs giving their opinions on their side of the story....you should not be shutting anyone's opinions out if they have first-hand experience of what its like to a lady in either of these shoes. The purpose of this thread may not be to help Suri anymore but to put out there all the aspects of these sugested jobs for any other gal who may come accross this thread in search for answers. so we can all bicker back and forth...or we can let our opinions and experiences help some ladies make the choice thats right for them after reading all this. I will say right off the batt, that the first will go nowhere. Opinions based on life experience shouldnt be viewed as attacks, but you need to acknowledge the opinions of those who have obviously "been there". personally I find the best advice comes from someone who has lived it

theres some some confusion here as to the topics addressed. I see what you mean Angela, that this thread was created and advertised by some members of the group, but behind the scenes many ladies have been judged for having multiple partners in a single session. its interesting because as dumpy and others said, our business of what we do as working ladies should not define us. everyone on here has different fantasies....some clients want to be flogged while being screamed at humiliating phrases......some are into bondage....some straight men want to have it taken up the rear by an SP in a strap-on....some men want to be with more than one women in the same hour......and many have and have advertised looking for it. has any judgment been passed? no however...when a lady agrees to be with multiple men at the same time or seeks out multiple men for a single session its not accepted or deemed demeaning?...even if shes in control of the situation and selective of those she allows in her event? perhaps some may agree to disagree but this will always be the double standard....the only plus is, as SPs, we can control who we see and thus weed out those who think we need to be "saved" from a "misguided life" of what we choose to do. My opinion is that if a client feels its his right to control what you do outside of your's and his time together....he is not a client worth keeping....not because of the business you might loose, but because of the self esteem potentially lost having someone thinking you can't make decisions for yourself. I kinda steer clear of the term "GB"...poly suits it way better. GBs tend to resonate with acts of many men taking over a sole lady or ladies in a demeaning non-willing manner. Group-sex on the clock is not the same. picture it as going on a call...sipping wine with a few gents around a table at a private call and getting to know each other...and then having everyone respect your restrictions, everyone else's pace, and other's spaceand time. yes bit of a rant but as a word of advice, any Hobbiest who claims he knows whats best for his SP and voices so without her asking for an opinion from them will most likely loose his hard-earned favoritism. When someone tries to steer me from what I want to do based on what they think I'm "good enough" for, it makes me wonder if they think they are preying on the weak...or appreciating someone's love for their art. and I would always hope for the latter....but there are those odd few who want to hear that you've come from a broken home, were abused as a child and turned to sex-work in an act of monetary desperation. hopefully some of the knights in shining armor will realize that none of those apply to some and will start realizing the gifts they have in front of them...not for the victims they feel they need to "save" but for the strong women that they are....capable of making whatever choices they want.....even if they, the client, cant relate

News flash: you don't have to be thin to be considered beautiful. ;)

Look, I do *both.* That is, I work for an agency and I have my own clients who I see independent of the Playgirls. Tracey knows that I'd never see a client of hers outside the agency and I keep that trust by never breaking it. In this way, I can offset the money the agency takes by seeing two or three of my own clients per week. You need to do what *you* what want to do. Don't be bullied or take any shit from people who will tell you that there is no point working for an agency because they'll just take half your cash. Weigh the pros and cons and decide what is right for you. I like working for an agency because I absolutely DO NOT have the patience to deal with the inane, offensive, ignorant requests/questions and often, atrocious spelling and grammar that comes with scheduling your own appointments. I'm terrible on the phone, I work much better in person. That's what I'm good at. So I let an agent take care of the crap I hate and I don't mind giving them a portion of the fee to do it. Also, if I'm having a shitty day and I'm not emotionally capable of seeing a client, I don't have to. I just don't go on call. I don't have to explain to anyone why I'm not working, or have an excuse for why I don't feel like it. It is not *always* about making the most money. It's about making a living in a way that is most enjoyable for you. Some of us do this because we love it, not because we're blinded by dollar signs. That being said, to answer your query, I can only recommend my agency, the Ottawa Playgirls. I've never worked for anyone else, and I wouldn't want to.

Hello everyone! It's about 6pm and I'm going to work soon. I wanted to share something with everyone, something that some people might be aware of (more than some, I hope). I have been talking to some SP's (older than myself - and wiser to some extent) and I found that their knowledge of STDs was not very comprehensive. I want to talk about these misconceptions about STDs to further protect all individuals involved in escorting - whether they're the hobbyist or the escort. Now I'm sure a lot of you know MORE than me, so I'd like everyone to share. The more a group or collective discuss a problem, the easier it is to eradicate said problem. OK. Let's get to the point. 1. You can get herpes if they are no sores present! "Remember: you can pass the virus to your partners even when you do not have symptoms" http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/std/herpes.htm 2. You can pass HIV through oral sex, they are microscopic abraisions present in the mouth, where the virus can pass through (!). Vaginal fluid and semen (including pre-come) contain the virus of an HIV+ person. 3. HIV can be 100% asymptomatic. Most people don't even know they have it (I wish I remembered where I read this.) So my point is, BE CAREFUL:!:

I'm still scratching my head over this thread, regardless of facts above, or stats. Lets look at the threads, as Cumquat pointed out, or generalized that we (men) always comment on those sexual creatures that are so thin and big breasted...one in particular..that dictates pictures and comments from people(Cerb members including females) that nominated this post. the thread is "Thong of the Day"...look for yourselves, and see those that commented (Including myself) on these sexy creatures we could only view and not have. Am I missing a point here? we are stating that society..mainly men only are attracted/give rec's/talk about/ only spinners? But we male and females all have commented on these pictures..or in fact on a ladies profile, or her album. Maybe I'm in left field, but my thoughts are that we all..(male and female)..... are doing the same thing..making the same comments on thin sexy ladies. Attilla The Hun says it right...... "For me in the hobby it all starts with the flirty messages and pm's. I can usually judge a woman but they way she writes whether she is open minded, sensual and intelligent. I'm attracted to pure sensuality and intelligence. The pictures help me visualize how I would make love to this person but it all starts with the flirt. So size and height have nothing to do with how I'm attracted to the ladies. " Now that is what I understand, to be bang on, and that is why I write rec's regardless of type of lady.

And to those confused by my first post saying it was people in the poly group with the issue, it was not people that attended the lunch or get involved in the discussions. It is negative people who try to exercise some control over the ladies and people by sending nasty messages and undermining the overral activities. Thanks to all who have read I do think that in general we understand the problem and are relatively helpless to avoid it. As Annessa so eloquently said we can choose to avoid the people who try to bring this negativity around us. I had a bar once (a sleazy littl crap hole nothing glamorous) and I the first few weeks I was tempted to serve anyone, however a voice in my head told me I was better of to keep the real rif raf on the streets and out of the bar, it hurt for the first few months as they "cleints" would have pruchased some alcohol and helped me eek out a living, instead I had lots of empty seats. however over time the clientel i wanted people with jobs and able to spend more the $10 a night started to patronize the place, my initial pain did translate into a longer term gain. To any SP's out there don't looses site of the long term picture if you can organize a few events and gain a few well healed long-term clients that is way more important than some one how wants exercises there will on you for the moment, turn them away they do not have your best interest at heart in spite of what they say.

I've always wondered about these guys who expect us women to swallow their cum, but the suggestion that they taste their own appalls them. Kudos to the guys on here who have admitted to trying it. I salute you!

Sadly, I think it's human nature to rate oneself in comparison to others - by labelling the poly-partakers as degenerate, they are making themselves feel better about their own deviance. Either that, or they're just incredibly jealous. Some of the more outspoken gay bashers are in the closet, themselves.

obviously I favor the more blunt words but I agree as always with Erin, I've known many dancers and almost became one in my more fit days until I learned first hand of the dog-eat-dog-world of being one....and that class and poise got you nowhere when competition arose in th SC scene. being an SP gives you the control to see who you want to see, trust your gut and follow through and be YOURSELF....not a lady in line whos paid a house fee competing with a dozen other catty ladies who most of the times are EXPECTED to offer extra mileage when they leave the club. aside from the highjacked notions, I know you have recently joined PK. Good for you in your self-words and confidence in your decision. only advice I can give towards agencies being now indi is: 1. make you restrictions clear and never abide to acts or locations that make you uncomfortable. know that you have the right to say no...even at the last minute. always be in control. 2. always report bad or disrespectful clients to your agency and if you dont wish to see them again, have your agency respect your wishes. 3. plans change, lives change direction etc.....if you should break ties with your agency there should be no drama or threats. you are your own person. (this is not a comment towards PK....just a comment that has been raised lately that no SP can break ties without drama)....if you choose to go indi, your agency should support your decision. 4. Make sure you schedule and wages are clear. 5. Keep your personal info to yourself, no contracts or signatures are required. You are entitled to keep your home address private from drivers and have a meeting point closeby. if this request is not respected it is potential fuel for fire at a later date should things get messy (once again not my feelings towards PK, just from my own experience its best to keep "you" to yourself. best of luck Suri! xoxo

SA, while I respect your opinion, you are NOT a dancer, and frequenting strip clubs doesn't make you an expert. What happens with you, is not how all clients act. Just as much demeaning crap can happen at a strip club, even so-called classier joints like the Nuden. Like guys who will try to stick their fingers in you when there is a strictly no touching between the legs rule. And that's sexual assault, my friend. And there is a TON of competition between dancers, classy or not. You have to be able to hustle and it's entirely different than escorting. I hate to be blunt, but unless you've been dancing in a g-string yourself, you ain't got jack to say.

As with any 'business' there is a rather large difference between being self employed and simply being employed. I think some people lose track of that fact. A long time ago in a galaxy far away (j/k :P) I worked as a baker in Tim Hortons (before they switched to ready-to-go frozen junk...aww the days of sleeping for 40m on flour bags while you waited for your dough to rise :P) They calculated every 2 seconds beyond the first 10s that a car sits at the drive thru window, pushing back the number of cars per hour, it costs the company $60 000 a year in potential revenue; 60 000(Yhours x Zstores) = millions of dollars a year. I haven't had as much experience as a lot of others with escorts/courtesan but I have had quite a wide range of varying differences between indy's and agencies in just contacting them. Agencies such as Pk and GoE (whom I will have the honour of visiting Dekota this coming week) always had someone available to speak with. They were always energetic and knew exactly how to answer any and all of my questions; there is only so much web browsing you can do/stand. Pkjason raises some great points imo. Independants for me, so far, have been hit and miss just to contact. While those here on CERB, or with just a brilliant reputation, may be some of the dearest/greatest ladies out there, they are not always available to speak to you; be it they are with a client or not working at that time/day. Screening calls likely takes it's toll on independants aswell. Ladies correct me if I'm wrong but dealing with jerks and immature people is no piece of heaven. Granted if you find the perfect balance, as the successful indies have, I agree you would make more money than going with an agency; and you will be better set for the long haul (as Pkjason mentions)