RobertDion

Not at all, I was just curious of the truth behind this whole "collecting IDs" thing, and I got the answers.

Yeah it was 2022, and no need to push your luck, you've dug yourself in this hole too much, no need for more.

I didn't question why SPs would ask for IDs until the backlash someone else got from the thought of asking an SP for her ID. I knew that wasn't a realistic ask, but the reaction people had at the thought of it made me dig deeper, I wasn't expecting all the BS, but it's understandable for being all defensive. But once I found out WHY you collect ID s and what you do with them, regardless of whether they are a negative client or not, well, let's just say I won't be handing over my ID anymore, now that I know the truth.

You already have, you're welcome for not posting a review of the experience.

haha, a story for another time.

"It's not only a power play. You are undermining and underestimating how at risk providers are. Again as stated multiple times if you don't want to do it then don't. " Um yeah, power play on their part, not ours. They admitted as much. And they claim the right to exercise this power move for their own reasons. "Having someone's ID also means if there is an issue like assault the provider has the clients real info to take to the police" Oh yeah for sure, assuming the bad guy used their own ID, which makes sense, the scumbag intending to do harm would totally use their own ID, yeah for sure. 🙂 "Now I would hope that an SP would delete your ID and not keep a record of it after you see them" Yeah, that's where some people find things to get hairy, trusting that no one else has access to this info, or access to their phone, or the agency who have all this info and can easily give it to third parties, or to their workers, and they pass it on from there. But yeah, it's a big trust thing on both sides for this to not happen when both members of this meeting had a good time, there's no reason for anyone to out the other person or profit from handing off the info to others but make no mistake they hold all the cards in that regard. "I think it's fine to ask for verification for lesser known providers who only post on LL. The providers with websites, reviews, active social media, etc you shouldn't ask because you can verify yourself through those channels. " Absolutely in agreement there.

Look up at what started this convo: Is it wrong to ask a SP for verification? The reaction from SPs taking offence to this was what raised some concerns. And apologies for dragging this out, but see how much it took to kinda get you both to see how very sus it can be to hear that 'yes, it's mostly a power play'. And saying "just accept it, this is what we have learned that needs toto get done to make this happen!" doesn't really fill us with much confidence that this process won't be used against us --not all SPs have big fancy websites and not all of us are CEOs and politicians -- whether its high class/upper class clients or down to the lower/middle class - it's an act of power and control on your part, and that's fine, but to beat around the bush and pretend it's otherwise is disingenuous.

Huh? Insulting? that's just stating facts, just look at all the ads out there, all I'm saying is 'good for her', for real, to put in that time and energy and commitment, obviously. But don't live in a bubble and think ALL SPs have done ALL the same tremendous amount of work for self-promoting -- do you not see and look at the slew of ads out there? They're not all 5-star, professional photo sessions and fancy fill-out forms. At the end of the day it's been made clear "it's none of our business what you do with our real identities and personal info, but to trust you all that it's purely for personal safety reasons" That's a more honest answer than the BS stated before, because as we proved, it made no sense, holding our info for possible ransom out of contempt for the small percentage of creeps out there that have done you wrong before -- why? because it's a nasty way for us go about this.

Good point. You're in the severe minority in that respect though, most most most SPs have not invested that much time and money.

If you want to just say "hey we want this, it gives us control, and that's just how it is, we hold the keys to the cuffs, just trust us that we'll set you free" then say it--- but don't be bullshitting around. Say it like it is.

"The specific logistics aren’t your business." Sounds like suspicious and ulterior motives there, doesn't it? And you wonder why there's paranoia as to what you're doing with our IDs, with statements like that?

"We've explained it. You won't understand. The specific logistics aren’t your business." Interesting, now we're getting somewhere, as mentioned by Manda earlier, some sort of "this is our business and our secret to keep" Hey all good to just say something like 'we have our ways, and we don't want to reveal why we do this because it does keep us safe' hahah I've given up my ID several times, but THIS answer of yours actually makes more sense, 'just accept it, this his how it is, it makes us feel safe, that's it, this is the process, there's no rhyme or reason, at least none that concern you' Well, at least that's better than no answer at all. "No. Good clients don’t feel punished, they get to spend time with us. they screen, book, and move forward. " That seems to suggest you DO reward those who accept screening without question. Don't you see how underhanded that could sound to some? So you now hold al the cards, you hold them by the balls, you can DESTROY their lives with ease now that YOU know THEIR identity, can go online and absolutely eviscerate them.... so are you saying this is a bit of a control thing, like the hobbyest is now meant to be remotely dominated and a cuck now that you hold their fate in their hands? That's the kink, even before any action happens? What's stoping any SP from asking for this info then just cancelling and just collecting a small downpayment, the person's ID that you can then find out everything about them online and use that to take advantage of them? Not saying you or anyone has or are, but just curious.... what is stopping you?

I feel like this debate is similar to this ....

Ah, so someone that goes through the screening process MUST be a 'good' client automatically? I wasn't aware it was 100% effective. And yes, the hyperbole of "an SP gets murdered daily" wasn't you, sorry, for a second there I lumped you into that group, you weren't the one that had said that earlier. Well, I'm glad those high profile gents trust you with that discretion and privacy, because no, obviously I didn't go out with a questionnaire to all the SPs I ever met. But I've known several people who have had their privacy broken purely for reasons of profiting from the extortion. Albeit it was a while ago now. If you didn't notice there's a LOT more clients then there are SPs. But I'm glad this system works for you. Point still stands, (which you harshly call 'ignorance' now) is that someone asked 'anyway to screen the SP?' -- heaven forbid, hobbyists try to find the right provider for them, and the best you have is "aww, boohoo, you should have done your research better, and you won't get screwed over" ---do you LOOK at all the ads out there? in 5 short years it's gone from 10% fake to 90% fake, and that's not an exaggeration.

And as all hobbyist would surely agree, we expect nothing less for you all to protect yourselves. As I'm sure you've seen how the good ones act towards all of you - we worship you.... we plan and wait and save and have butterflies in our stomachs like it's a first date at prom for most of us most of the time, we have the utmost respect, (is it upmost, or utmost?), it's our little 1,2,3 hour vacation, a peak luxury for us, we want nothing more than to see you all safe.

When you put it that way, you're only keeping away potentially good clients, and its' not doing anything to prevent the bad ones from coming through at all.

Well, that's it then, the alternative? Remember the time not long ago when there was no screenings? Even now, I'd say over 90% don't do screenings? It's not like it's this industry-wide standard. And i'm not saying "ahhh you suck cuz you ask for proof of ID" - not at all, I was just asking "sooooo how exactly does it make you safer?" Or it doesn't ?..... and it's just a habit for your peace of mind? I'm just curious, what can we do to make things safer for you? What else can the non-threatening, non-violent, legitimately friendly, respectful and kind hobbyists do.... to keep you safe from the scum out there. Sorry, that sounds sarcastic or condescending, it's not meant to, because really, truthfully--- How can the honest and non-harmful hobbyist protect you from the shitty ones that do the extremes as shown in your links? If you admit you're still at risk, then aren't you exposing yourself to that double-satndard? Choosing to punish the innocent for the crimes of the crappy scumbags that intend to so you harm? That makes sense to you, does it? Put the honest and respectuful hobbyist through the hoops and the maze to suss out those shitty ones?

Yes, but as the point was made; you're not seeing it from the other side. You're putting the cart before the horse in this respect. You can't play the victim and have it both ways too. Well, I suppose you CAN, but that's far from fair, or is the argument "yup, not fair for men, sucks to be you"? It's the hypocrisy of it all -- and the only answer is: "well this hobby isn't for you" --- Look, if YOU'RE the one claiming to put yourselves in harm's way, isn't that your choice? Yes, we'll never fully see it from your point of view, we're not you. The best we can do is imagine the strange, awkward, uncomfortable situations you find yourselves in all the time, we get it. But you're making things out like your clients are forcing you to do unfavourable things that you don't want to happen (and no, I'm not including meetings needing badly or violently or stalking or anything bad and negative like that), your ads go up, you literally place a value on yourselves, on your services, YOU do this, not us. And as many ads sometimes say "non-negotiable" and no one here is saying we want it to be. So THIS is what becomes double-standards, do you see what happens to the GOOD and honest hobbyst who wants to todo the good thing and comply when he hands over his ID and that SP than uses that ID for something bad against that person? We are the ones finding the person we hope will give us the services we're looking for, correct? So what does that mean? Well, you're not using your real name, and if the hobbyst's intentions are BAD, will they use their own ID in order to pass through your screening process? No, he won't let's not pussyfoot around, let's not dance around what everyone wants to avoid as what this is. Cuckholding, hardcore BDSM/roleplay amongst two consenting adults aside, this is an exchange of funds for some pleasurable services. "We could be preyed upon and stalked and other far worse things" Yes, we know this, but think about how one-sides you are making this, to preemptively do this process out of the fear of the worse thing to happen? Let's call this for what it is, we all know what's happening between two naked adults behind these closed doors as mentioned. So no more dancing around the subject. But like how gun laws does NOT stop the criminal who wants to get their hands on a weapon to murder someone, a screening process will not screen the bad individuals from the good ones. It places lots of personal information of that innocent hobbyist into the SP's hands. And all you have to say to me is "well, that's how it goes, that's the risk you take for being a hobbyist, sucks to be you". Asking for $50 deposit to secure a day and time is one thing, that makes sense, but to feel like its an inquisition where we have to go through hoops to get to the service/meeds we're looking for? When we ALL know that if the bad person wants to get through the screening process because of their ill intents they will NOT be using their real identity!! Put some thought into this scenario. WE are the ones seeking you out. Are YOU going on a website and combing through clients that you would like to hook up with? Reading their profile and info and then texting them and then setting up a date and time and wait for them to pay up and have them show up at your door? Nope, that's not how this works. Are you the one saving your money, waiting for your favorite SP to come to town? No. All I'm saying is, its a shame that the bad experiences you've had, or perhaps not you, but the bad ones that friends or acquaintances of yours have had, makes it so you feel the need to do this process - and that is what you need to feel safe. In cold hard reality (sorry to break it to you) it will not keep you anymore safe than before, not even by 1%. For any SP who's had a potential client ghost them after you've asked them for there ID and/or references, you've probably thought to yourself "Ha, well, they weren't worth it anyways, I just sussed out a potential creep/stalker/nefarious person, mission accomplished". I assure you, that maybe 1%, yes, but the other 99% were people like the rest of us, the majority of us who though to themselves "huh? why so I expose myself? so your friend or you yourself save that to use against me later, no thank you." and you lose out on what would have been a mutually friendly and beneficial meet up. And I feel for you, I really do, for you or anyone that's had to go through any negative experience due to any creep or something out of the true crime novels/podcasts you read/hear, but it's just sad that we have to go through this. For two seconds - look at it from our point of view, there's plenty of willing vulnerability on our part in this back and forth we do as well. It's been illustrated in these forums on here and the DMs I've gotten about hobbyists getting screwed over, sometimes by highly reputable SPs as well, and yes I'm not just talking about low quality or bait-and-switch scenario, but as eluded earlier, the whole blackmail thing, as well, and yes, it's rare I'm sure in the grand scheme of things if we're to talk statistics in terms of the thousands of encounters happening daily/weekly, how many end up really badly for one or the other. Was it just last month some one on here said they almost got mugged by the pimp they didn't even know she had? It does help when Manda mentioned the whole thing about "Statistically, people just fuck around less if you know who they are irl. That's well studied and documented across many situations, not just sw. " I hadn't thought of that in that way. It makes sense. And maybe it's paranoia on our part from seeing how governments or agencies sell you info online, how cell companies and health care companies just dump all your personal info online for the lowest bidder that makes it seem like an automatic red flag when your asked to send a photos of your driver's licence, spider-senses go off, and you think to yourself "why?" But this whole thing of "well if you can't handle a screening process, maybe this hobby isn't for you" statements, is just a cop out, and avoiding the issue at hand. SPs protecting themselves from the scum that might be out there by having the other 99% (non-scumy hobbyists) be potentially treated like they're criminals (just in case) .... isn't exactly too progressive. Assuming the worse... FIRST? And acting upon false assumptions... and these "what ifs"? is NOT painting your clients in a glowing light. NO hobbyist wants to enter an arrangement where he gets the sense that there's this underlying contempt or resentment happening towards them or this feeling that there's this subtle (or not-so-subtle) hatred towards men happening.

And you putting a client through screening wont' stop that client from doing the things you say you fear they'll do, so then all that's left is just doing it for power and control. And that sucks. hahah

Awww, why not? Can you imagine? a deck builder that ALSO sucks your dick??

I wasn't aware.

And yes, this is the only industry that has the person buying the services being put through this screening process like there's no tomorrow. It's backwards, but at least we can agree it's more of a powerplay, and far less of a "for our safety" excuse. Because other than the threat of giving out my ID to others, it does nothing to prevent the horrible acts mentioned earlier. Like first the analogy I stated, I just wanted to get the guy to build me my deck, why all these credit checks and proof of insurance? hahaha -- being paranoid of all these creeps and low lifes and violent people is giving the other 99% a bad reputation?

No one's saying "we demand you reveal you're true identity" or anything. And I doubt the ever escalating amount of hoops would stop when people stop asking questions, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this at all, would we. But if an SP is justifying a screening process out of this fear of being 'murdered' I'm not sure this hobby os for them. And well put Manda, that's all true. It's just a shame the fear mongering needs to be implemented like this, good lord. There's a lot of over-thinking here 🙂

Most SPs don't ask for money up front, but those that do, wouldn't that be the power play?

True enough, never argued against that.