How can SOME ugly men be shallow?

[Fiamma Chi 177]

This is a crass generalization on my part, meant to offend no one, this is just based on my limited experiences, but it's really been baffling me lately.

 

I had a friend over to my place, he' s a nice smart guy who's interested in me. My roommate is a pretty girl but she's a little heavyset now. She used to be skinnier and she actually has a picture of herself on the refrigerator that shows her when she was skinny followed by the way she looks now.

 

He said, " Ugh, that's not possible. Those are two different women."

 

Now I don't really have a preference when it comes to looks. I go by an individual basis when I date. I look at the whole package: the guys intellect(most important), personality, our compatibility.

 

This friend in question is: skinny (like bony), he has very bad acne scars on his face, he's prematurely balding, and he's not ugly, but... he's not what you would call generally attractive either. A few notches below that.

 

I entertained him because he's nice, persistent, and smart ( I'm not high maintenance. If a man can make me laugh, think, and entertain me I'll be attracted to him, usually regardless of his looks) but when he said that I immediately lost interest in him. Mostly because a facet of character that I find important is self awareness. Deluded people turn me off.

 

Mind you this same guy complains about how he can't find a girl. It makes me wonder if it's because his standards are unrealistic? I mean... especially in Toronto. Women outnumber men here and I don't see very many obese people, morbid or otherwise, walking around. Or very many butt ugly people for that matter. At least in the downtown area. Shouldn't guys have it made here?

 

Everyone has their preferences, and indeed ugly women can be shallow too, but I find this behavior more common with men. Especially with regards to age difference. I'm hardly one to talk because the last guy I dated was 44, but he didn't look his age. He looked about 15 years younger, went to the gym regularly, and kept himself in shape. Many older men will look at attractive women their own age and be dismissive, but they'll look at younger women and approach. The woman doesn't even have to be attractive all the time, just young. I don't know very many older women who feel comfortable chasing men half their age. Most would see it as undignified.

 

I mean...you may deserve it, but can you afford it? (figuratively speaking)

 

I don't really care that much but if I date older guys now, does this mean that when I get older and if I look my age, no one will want me? And I'll have to be like some creepy cougar or live my life alone. Makes me feel cynical to be a woman sometimes.

[Sensual Erin 33900]

Wow! This guy is definitely being a jerk! I completely agree that any attraction that you may have for him for his character and personality flew out the window when he insulted your friend. I think a lot of people, male or female can be callous and judge someone by their size or appearance. When it comes from someone that is not physically attractive, it can cause question of "who do you think you are?" I think men are probably more guilty of this than women due to commercial objectification. Our media presents women by youth and on body parts compared to the total package which is where true sexy comes from. Anyway, that's my opinion so hope no guys jump on me for that. I see this quite a bit, especially in older men.

 

Whether they will admit it or not, most guys wouldn't mind being able to date and attract younger women. Once you get to a certain age, being able to attract and date a younger women seems to be an elusive ability that most guys assume they do not have. And, even if they are able to experience the thrill of dating a woman who is younger than them, they will do unnecessary things to try and make sure that they are able to attract her. Things like spending a lot of money on things to try and sway her or by trying to dote too much attention on her. This explains why many older men may hobby as attaining this in real life is rare unless the man keeps himself in great shape and doesn't try to persuade her with money. Confidence is key if the goal is to date a younger woman. Otherwise, it will be paid for one way or another.

 

I have a male friend that is older and only dates younger women. They way he does it is by possessing an alpha male character. The way he acts compensates for anything that he lacks in the looks department. Alpha males are the leaders of the group that are confident and act boldly. These older men get quality women because they are confident, persistent, and not intimidated by beautiful women.

 

As far as women and age. There are many beautiful women over the age of 35 that have substance, life skills and class. I think the same applies to both sexes in the law of attraction. However, the admiration for youth is fleeting. That's been my expereince. I've dated men ten years younger with no attraction as there's no similarity in our generations so the age gap is too wide for me. The same applies to older men. Older men can be too needy. What are we all to do?

 

Good subject.

[Andee 220524]

The operative word here is "SOME" men. Thank goodness.

 

I don't even try and figure it out. I just avoid those kinds of people.

[Maverick 2873]

Are we talking about sexual attraction or attraction in general? If I am looking for a sexual partner I am shallow and will admit that. It's not who I choose to be, it's just who I am. But if I am looking for a girlfriend, who I would spend more time with clothed than naked, I look for a woman around my level of attractiveness or better looking.

 

Yes, personality is an important part of attraction, but at the end of the day you still have to enjoy looking at your partner and have at least some level of sexual attraction. Whether you want to blame it on the media or something else, it is true that most men have certain standards of female beauty that they develop as they go through childhood & puberty.

 

As a young man, I cannot speak to the possible changes that occur as men age, so I'm just talking about how I feel in general. Also, if men who have certain standards of beauty consciously try to lower those standards to expand the pool of possible partners, aren't those men, on some level, not being true to themselves? If someone says they want to be the CEO of a multinational corporation, but they likely don't have the qualifications & networks necessary to get that position, would you tell them to lower their standards and just be happy being a manager?

 

I hope this does not offend anyone, I am not trying to be in any way inflammatory, I just feel that shallow guys often get a bad rep and I don't think it is always deserved. However, I do not defend in any way disrespectful or negative behavior toward women as a result of their looks.

[Guest E*******h S******s]

I don't really care that much but if I date older guys now, does this mean that when I get older and if I look my age, no one will want me? And I'll have to be like some creepy cougar or live my life alone. Makes me feel cynical to be a woman sometimes.

 

There will be people that want you, but they will likely be in their 60's. It has been my experience that men tend to like women that are 10 to 15 years younger than themselves. I am speaking in generalities, I understand that. There will certainly be gentlemen your own age that find you attractive, but they will be far fewer in number than when you are in your 20's or 30's and a lot of the ones that are interested will already be married. Sad....but true.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

How can SOME ugly men be shallow?

 

Likely the same reason that some handsome men can be shallow.

 

I don't think that being ugly should leave him any more open to being accused of poor behaviour than he would be if he were handsome. Anyone's behaviour (be they female or male) should be judged independently of their looks.

[Sensual Erin 33900]

I think as well, it's really important to seperate if the laws of atttraction are personal or professional. As a provider, I let so much go that I wouldn't tolerate personally.

 

For example> I had a client the other day that was 15 years my senior. He was still physically attractive with his steel blue eyes and body and I took an interest as I am single and was attracted to him. As soon as he mentioned "generations" and what he has to deal with dating in his personal life it turned me off. If only he knew these decades he made reference to, I was way out of diapers. My attraction became a turn off as he had no idea how old I was and put me in the young category. I've never had children and my genes have been kind but i am older than what he thought I took no part of, generation wise.

 

I have a friend with a beautiful teenage daughter. She's seventeen and as she was heading over one day she texted me with "there's an old perv petafile that is hanging out of his car, whistling and hollering at me so I spat on his car!" She expected me to be proud of her. I wasn't and did let her know if you see me dad coming your way and twisting his neck in admiration and you even attempt to spit on his car, I will kick your sweet little ass! My father does and who can blame the old guy! She needs to get over herself and realize this thing is historical and not going away....

[April Dawn 12207]

I routinely flip creepy guys of any age off who yell or make lewd remarks to me. As a woman I don't expect that makes me a sexual object to anyone who happens to find the way I look pleasing.

Now back to the topic at hand.

I find people in general very shallow. I try and set up my "lonely" friends who complain about being single all the time. I'm pansexual so I'm probably not the best matchmaker on the physical appearance dealio but friends of both sexes who aren't what society would consider classically attractive shoot down the nice, sweet, caring, classy, intelligent people because they don't look a certain way. As to the whole age thing, I find myself gravitating towards women and men who are in their late 30's to late 40's. I find I have more in common with them even though I am 23.

The most unattractive quality in a person is an undeserved sense of entitlement and that can be applied to many many things.

Posted via Mobile Device

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Shallow people come in all shapes, sizes, nationalities, are beautiful or conventionally considered unattractive.

 

Shallowness is a personality trait and has nothing to do with the persons physical attributes.

 

Hey, a jerk will always be a jerk no matter what. It's either a sense of entitlement or poor self esteem but no matter the cause, they exist and always will.

 

Makes for alot of sad and emotionally challenged people but hopefully, some of them will see the error in thier ways and enter the real world. Hmmmm that movie with Gwyneth Paltrow and Jack Black comes to mind!

[loopie 15358]

I think there's just a type of person who likes to make really nasty negative remarks to make themselves look cool, feel superior, and make their approval seem more valuable. Also, being really extreme in one's opinions can be an attention-getting device.

[cat 262460]

Likely the same reason that some handsome men can be shallow.

 

I don't think that being ugly should leave him any more open to being accused of poor behaviour than he would be if he were handsome. Anyone's behaviour (be they female or male) should be judged independently of their looks.

 

Seldom do we disagree WIT, but here I must. A persons appearance in this society impacts just about all aspects from getting a job to receiving decent service in a restaurant. Science has proved time and again that people react better initially to a visually pleasing appearance; then the persons attitude will help dictate the rest of the interaction. People who do not fall into the traditionally "attractive" category know who they are unless they are just obtuse. I have met many men who are wonderful people but have a shallowness when it comes to who they will date. To this day, they are all still single because they will only date an 8 or higher when they are a 5 or 6. Visually appealing men do not usually have a difficult time getting a date altho keeping a girlfriend may be a different story if they lack substance. Unrealistic expectations to say the least in my opinion. It continues to baffle me.

 

cat

[mrgreen760 37785]

Me and almost all my male friends have partners on average 8-12 years younger. Not really sure why, I put it down to women being more mature than men. At least it seems to be that way in my world :). It certainly wasn't intentional in my case and my partner is 9 years younger, it didn't occur to me to ask her age at the time. It also might be that we were all in our 30's and most had never married and the dating age range was just broader than when we were in our 20's.

 

We looked wise, stable and experienced then......now perhaps not so much.

 

Peace

MG

[capitalman 3861]

Throughout the dawn of time, men have been attracted to younger women.

 

Our caveman instincts seek out a younger subject with which to mate, to reproduce and plant our seed.

 

Vise-versa the younger woman seeks an older mature male, one that will care for her young and be stable and secure and able to hunt and provide.

 

It's in our DNA. Don't fight it, just go with it.

 

So are older women worthless and to be put out to trash by the men? NO WAY. I think you just have to work a little harder to keep the men's interest, that's all. It's just reality imho. Ymmv.

 

Why are girls getting their periods at nine years old? In some countries if you're not married and making babies by the time you're 14 you're considered yesterdays news.

 

I'm ready.....shoot at me. I can take it. Go....

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Throughout the dawn of time, men have been attracted to younger women.

 

Our caveman instincts seek out a younger subject with which to mate, to reproduce and plant our seed.

 

Vise-versa the younger woman seeks an older mature male, one that will care for her young and be stable and secure and able to hunt and provide.

 

It's in our DNA. Don't fight it, just go with it.

 

So are older women worthless and to be put out to trash by the men? NO WAY. I think you just have to work a little harder to keep the men's interest, that's all. It's just reality imho. Ymmv.

 

Why are girls getting their periods at nine years old? In some countries if you're not married and making babies by the time you're 14 you're considered yesterdays news.

 

I'm ready.....shoot at me. I can take it. Go....

 

Ummm....you know I like you but....we are talking about looks and not age :) I think the topic started out with a not so nice looking man wanting only a 10 as a g/f?

[Fiamma Chi 177]

That's fine. You want what you want but can you afford it?

 

I may love Vera Wang but if I work at a Tim Horton's can I afford it? Probably not. If I had to get my hands on some, to that point that it's the only thing I'll wear, I'd have to beg/borrow/ or steal it because it's simply beyond my means. Is it worth all the potential inconvenience(possible jail time/being a moocher)? I mean I could learn how to sew and recreate designs that I like, or just wait until sales come, save my money. Or work on generating an income that allows me to buy it.

 

But in the mean time I'll probably have to shop at like H&M or Forever 21. If I consider that beneath me, and walk around naked in winter because I can't buy designer clothing when it's in season, who's fault is it that I'm cold all the time?

[roamingguy 300291]

Well first the part about men liking women somewhat younger. Don't women mature earlier than men, so ergo, maturity wise, a younger woman would likely be attracted to a man older than her...they are just the same age maturity wise

As for looks/age thing, it really is for me, the person inside that counts.

Looks, obviously yes, a factor...but give me a personable, intelligent lady with a sense of humour, and character and integrity any day of the week

Beauty is skin deep, ugly goes right to the bone

And from the ladies I've seen since embarking on this lifestyle, they have ran the age range from 25-50, all body types, blonde/brunette or redhead.

Of my four bad encounters, three of them would be considered attractive, and of those three, two head turning beauties and I hope I never ever see them again

Some quick rapid ramblings from a middle aged overweight bald man, for whatever there worth

RG

[Fiamma Chi 177]

I feel you on that. My only thing is attractive people can afford to be shallow. Ugly people usually cannot.

 

If you're happy and it's not hurting you then good. But usually being unrealistic is harmful to the person and that bothers me. It's like when I see middle class people with stable jobs run their finances into the ground buying things they just cannot afford, and then if they get laid off, they dream bitterly about the time when they "had it all". They would still have it, and possibly more, if they hadn't tried to "keep up with the jones".

 

Wealthy people can afford a Mercedes in every color, and more than one house. But if YOU can't afford those things you have no business buying them.

[Old Dog 179138]

The answer is quite simple and I am quite surprised that in this forum we are unable to pinpoint it immediately.

 

The initial stage of attraction for most men is that governed by their penis. If the potential target of their affections does not induce a longing in the loins, it might as well be over before it starts.

 

Is it shallow? On the surface, yes. In reality, it is what it is. Nobody wants to get into a relationship where they know that an important part will be missing. Sexuality and sensuality are important to everyone.

 

Will a lifetime of holding hands in the park, long walks on the beach, sharing meals with a glass of wine, kids, grandkids, retirement etc etc etc compensate for that lack of sexual attraction? In the long run maybe... but initially, I am afraid there is not a chance.

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Ah, but can a woman considered by society to be merely a 5 not exude sexuality. Can she not be a tiger in the bedroom? Beauty is only skin deep. Why do you think super models and big time actresses don't automatically stay in a relationship? They are beautiful but does that mean they enjoy sex? Does that mean they will be great lovers??? Me think not....vice versa when a woman looks for a man.

 

Sure, beauty is a pre-cursor but it is not the final straw! I have slept with men and women who were superbly attractive and once we hit the sheets the fires waned. Then, I have been with men and women who may be considered average and vavavavoom!!!!

[Fiamma Chi 177]

I understand that, but what happens when sex isn't really physically possible?

 

Having a relationship with someone just based off of that seems naive, because beauty fades and many men especially as they age don't even have the same sexual stamina. I have an older sister who used to be beautiful, but she was vain, malicious, and selfish. We didn't get along. Now she has Lupus and her beautiful hair has fallen out, she's gained a lot of weight, and she has several scars from her illness on her face & body. Her beauty isn't gone but it's definitely diminished. And she calls me all the time to talk because once her beauty faded the attention she received from people in general went with it, and she's lonely.

 

She wonders why her interactions with people go badly, and I explained that it's because of the way she treats people. She can't get away with the things she does, particularly to men, as easily as she used to and she's upset about this. I'd say it serves her right.

[Fiamma Chi 177]

From men and women both.

[The General 11309]

Shallow, actually I think the subject is pretty deep in general.

 

People, and I don't think that is limited to just the guys, notice first the overall attraction to someone else, which is more based on physical appearance, than personality. So, we start with attraction, and I don't think our view of attraction is different based on our own attractiveness. For someone to comment that they find someone not attractive seems pretty normal, I am not sure why this is found offensive in general.

 

The difference being that if the other person does not find you attractive, the relationship likely moves nowhere, while actually it never is a relationship. No matter how attracted you are to that other person.

 

If there is the beginning relationship, then it moves on to other factors, such as sexuality and personality. This is why so many initial relationships struggle is that while there was a physical attraction, the other factors often don't work together and the relationship quickly fizzles out.

 

I see nothing wrong in people stating the attraction or lack of attraction at the beginning, is this shallow, perhaps, but it is reality too. I suspect that a large majority of people in society are shallow then. Sometimes people that didn't start out with attraction, fell together because there was some other reason that they got the opportunity to learn more about the person's sexuality and personality. Often this happens when they work together and perhaps get over the initial non-attraction or limited attraction that in a casual meeting, would have ended right there and then.

 

So, I wouldn't be so hard on the initial friend that commented on the photo, regardless of whether you thought the person should not have limited their view on attraction to about their own level of attractiveness, or to not have judged a book by the cover.

 

Signed, your shallow CERB member.

[Old Dog 179138]

Ah, but can a woman considered by society to be merely a 5 not exude sexuality. Can she not be a tiger in the bedroom? Beauty is only skin deep. Why do you think super models and big time actresses don't automatically stay in a relationship? They are beautiful but does that mean they enjoy sex? Does that mean they will be great lovers??? Me think not....vice versa when a woman looks for a man.

 

Sure, beauty is a pre-cursor but it is not the final straw! I have slept with men and women who were superbly attractive and once we hit the sheets the fires waned. Then, I have been with men and women who may be considered average and vavavavoom!!!!

 

I don't dispute a single word you are saying Meg.

 

Beauty is different in everyone's eyes. You can't force it. To be labeled shallow just because you don't find someone else attractive is ridiculous.

 

Beauty does not know age, size, shape, ethnicity, colour or any other factor. Men and women will seek whatever characteristics they find attractive.

 

Like I said, attraction is what it is.

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

Thanks OD...always able to finish my thoughts :)

[Fiamma Chi 177]

It's not that ugly people are uppity . Biggie Smalls had a song called "One More Chance" where he raps that he's "Big black and ugly as ever, however I stay coochie down to the spot." LOL In another he raps about how"girls used to diss me, now they right letters that they miss me."

 

And if you know who I'm talking about you know he was right. LOL love Biggie Smalls but he was ugly. And he knew it, but he knew what he had to offer and he worked with that. I can understand that.

 

For me, I'm attracted to intellect first, looks second. I once dated a guy who was looked like a model. Perfect body, handsome face, nice package....but he couldn't even answer a basic chemistry question when it was multiple choice

:(

 

Not only was he dumb but, he didn't think...at all. He just played sports and video games all the time. He said he like me because I was intelligent and pretty, which baffled me because he wasn't intelligent at all, so why was he interested in someone who was? I guess he expected me to be fulfilled with what he offered but...I wasn't and the relationship didn't last :(

 

It's like women that want to marry a doctor, but they themselves don't even have a GED and can barely read. Not saying they can't marry one, but a relationship with that kind of power imbalance probably won't last or be likely to happen.

 

Do they dislike themselves enough that being with someone that makes up for what they lack makes them feel better about themselves? :(

 

Or is it just sexual? I guess it depends on the person. But if getting your dick wet is important, seems like having standards you can actually meet would mean you were always getting what you needed. :)