A very Touchy Subject ....

[Emma Alexandra 123366]

I think you should ask in your interview what the ladies limitations are before you hire them. This would save you the headache.

I have no issues with race,religion,etc but I do with age..I won't see anyone under 25...that's my choice. These are just some of the issues you need to be aware of before hiring a lady. just my 2 cents

[explorer69 3513]

This will be a much bigger issue for you when bawdy houses become legal. As a legitimate business you will then be subject to the Human Rights Code which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race when providing services.

[Guest **n****er]

This will be a much bigger issue for you when bawdy houses become legal. As a legitimate business you will then be subject to the Human Rights Code which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race when providing services.

 

Well stated. The last thing you'd want to do is draw negative attention to your business with a full blown Human rights Tribunal.

[loopie 15358]

I have encountered many SPs with demographic barriers such as age and race. I am white and I have never seen an SP who refuses to see white clients. However I am young and look even younger than I am, so if an SP says she won't see younger clients, I respect her barrier and I don't bother contacting her. I believe in an SP's right to choose who she sees. I also believe in an agency's right to choose which SPs they have representing them.

 

I think if you're an SP with barriers, it's best to be up front about them and save everybody some time and grief. If a client shows up for service only to be sent away for something that could've easily been checked when he set up the appointment, I can understand why he would be frustrated.

 

Whenever I contact an SP, I ask the questions I want answered, then I ask her if she has anything she wants to know about me. I figure this is a good gracious way to prompt her to ask about anything such as age or race if it's an issue for her.

[cat 262460]

I've waited to weigh in here because I can understand the conundrum all too well and there is no easy answer. I faced this situation hundreds of times (literally) when I worked down south as a provider and an agency owner. Non black providers at home seldom wanted to service blacks and it was a challenge for me. There are reasons to numerous to imagine as to why they refused, the fact was that they did.

As an agency owner I did my best to screen out potential issues by asking up front if a provider had an issue but more often than not, they would lie and when they were face to face with a client, they would find a reason to bail. The only solution I found was to work with her at addressing the issue. If there was a valid reason for her resistance (sexual assault, boyfriend rule, etc) then I would do my best to work around it and try to get her help to work thru the situation. If it was a basic bigotry then she was let go as I had neither the time nor inclination to try and change a belief system.

cat

[fortunateone 156618]

I just want to point out that coercian is against the laws regarding sex work. If this particular law is not one of the ones up for removal, then it will continue. If this is the case, then NO one will be able to force any sp into providing services to anyone for ANY reason. There won't be any human tribunal cases, or law suits due to discrimination of race, age or religion, because it will all come down to the sp's right to choose her clients.

 

That is a problem for an agency owner, but it isn't really any more problematic than any other rule or restriction an sp will have. She may say cbj only, the agency owner says, oh, but bbbjs are more popular and 80% of our clients want that so you have to provide that. Well, most agency owners don't do that, they respect the restrictions and limitations that the sp have for their own comfort. Maybe an sp doesn't want to see anyone under 25.

 

Whatever the restricition or condition might be, the booker is always going to be facing having to advise the caller of the sp's conditions.

 

I don't know of any good way to let people know about this. I do know that when it is posted about particular sps (or even a group of sps, as I have seen in the past) the reaction is usually mixed. But it is not ever as extreme as we might assume. Many white posters are outraged, and just as many black (or brown!) posters shrug and say, no worries.

 

We don't know this sp's reasons for her choice, but I doubt if she is going to be the only one who brings this up. So maybe having a policy or process for it might be a good thing.

 

 

In my area, a few years ago, I had many Indo-Canadian callers who asked if I was "ok" with seeing them. Many sps refused or simply didn't answer their calls.

[Guest **n****er]

I just want to point out that coercian is against the laws regarding sex work. If this particular law is not one of the ones up for removal, then it will continue. If this is the case, then NO one will be able to force any sp into providing services to anyone for ANY reason. There won't be any human tribunal cases, or law suits due to discrimination of race, age or religion, because it will all come down to the sp's right to choose her clients.

 

That is a problem for an agency owner, but it isn't really any more problematic than any other rule or restriction an sp will have. She may say cbj only, the agency owner says, oh, but bbbjs are more popular and 80% of our clients want that so you have to provide that. Well, most agency owners don't do that, they respect the restrictions and limitations that the sp have for their own comfort. Maybe an sp doesn't want to see anyone under 25.

 

Whatever the restricition or condition might be, the booker is always going to be facing having to advise the caller of the sp's conditions.

 

I don't know of any good way to let people know about this. I do know that when it is posted about particular sps (or even a group of sps, as I have seen in the past) the reaction is usually mixed. But it is not ever as extreme as we might assume. Many white posters are outraged, and just as many black (or brown!) posters shrug and say, no worries.

 

We don't know this sp's reasons for her choice, but I doubt if she is going to be the only one who brings this up. So maybe having a policy or process for it might be a good thing.

 

 

In my area, a few years ago, I had many Indo-Canadian callers who asked if I was "ok" with seeing them. Many sps refused or simply didn't answer their calls.

 

I don't see how coercion is applicable unless the agency forces someone to perform the sex act against their will which is not the case here. In this particular case a business owner has a right to dismiss anybody they want unless it contravenes labor or human rights legislation. But if the business becomes a fully regulated entity under the category of providing a service...it will absolutely be subjected to the provisions contained within the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Act.

 

But it's all just conjecture and speculation at this point because the current political powers will never allow legitimacy of sex work...it's a shame.

[backrubman 64800]

I don't see how coercion is applicable unless the agency forces someone to perform the sex act against their will which is not the case here. In this particular case a business owner has a right to dismiss anybody they want unless it contravenes labor or human rights legislation. But if the business becomes a fully regulated entity under the category of providing a service...it will absolutely be subjected to the provisions contained within the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Act.

 

But it's all just conjecture and speculation at this point because the current political powers will never allow legitimacy of sex work...it's a shame.

 

I respectfully disagree. Saying that the political powers will never allow legitimacy of sex work is incorrect. It has never been illegitimate (or illegal) in Canada. Rather existing laws (some of which have been struck down but remain in place waiting for a decision from the Supreme Court of Canada) only ever attempted to control the nuisance factor or protect sex workers.

 

Unfortunately it has been proven in two courts of competent jurisdiction that the laws as are they are make the work less safe but in no way illegitimate. This work is just as legitimate and any other. The Charter always applies to everyone and every individual. Of course the conundrum here is that the existing prostitution laws, Charter and Human Rights Act when combined and applied to this particular "problem" clearly come up with different answers for each side of the argument.

 

Then when we mix in a little jurisprudence where the government has no business in a bedroom of two consenting adults and no tolerance for anything that is not consensual you have quite a conundrum. Clearly the lady in this case has a right to her own individual selectivity (whatever her reason may be) and the agency does not, or perhaps they do by extension but dare not due to appearances. Can she be legally dismissed from employment?

If she was dismissed and challenged it, I think it would make an interesting, if not very messy case but I do see the agency point of view here as well.

 

In fact I have to agree with both opposing points of view.

[lipualipua 4704]

Not to sound rude but you just have to suck it up.

 

She is a person and she has the right to decide if she doesn't want to see a specific clientelle.

I suppose you can't post that here (as wrtten above) but if you have a website or simply over the phone do it there.

 

No offense to any race is intended by my statement.

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best one, try, "Sorry this particular lady will not see african-american clients...but I have this other lady who (insert sales pitch here)"

 

It's not unheard of in the industry (or life...) Some asian providers will only see asian clients. I've met an african-american woman who wouldn't see causasians... I wasn't offended it's her decision who she is willing to date.

 

"It's not unheard of in the industry (or life...)" Speedstick, so true! I had an interesting experience with such a situation, not in the industry but in "life".

 

I am African. Not having a family doctor, I use a walk-in clinic in Kingston.Three months ago I went to that clinic on account of a painful sore throat. Because I was at risk of missing my afternoon shift at work as the wait to see a doctor was getting too long, I asked the receptionist whether I could come back in the early evening. She replied in the affirmative and so off I went.

 

I went back around 5pm to find a new receptionist who, on asking me for my name, not only took my file to the only doctor then working but also seated me in a consulting room. Apparently before leaving, the first receptionist had told her to give me priority as I had been there in the morning.

 

I waited as the doctor ( an elderly gentleman, by the way) came to pick patient after patient in the general waiting room despite seeing me in a consulting room and having my file. At one time, he stood about a foot from the doorway to where I was sitting, looked at me intently and then walked away to pick yet another patient. Realizing that he could not put off seeing me any longer, he walked into the consulting room and asked " what can I do for you?"

 

I told him that I am also an MD but don't work as such and that I had come for a prescription for Azithromycin. He asked why and I said that I had a painful sore throat. Below is the conversation that took place between us.

 

DOCTOR: how do you know that the sore throat is caused by bacteria for there is at present a virus infecting people in Kingston ( he asked this because viral infections are not usually treated with antibiotics)

ME: As doctors, we always take into account the medical history of a patient. Azithromycin has worked for me any time I come down with sore throat. Besides I caught the sore throat in Berlin about a week ago, not Kingston.

DOCTOR : what did you go to Berlin for? Have family or friends in Germany? ME : no. I have a perverse fascination with Nazi Germany and healthy admiration for German industry.

He then examined my throat and said that there is no way I had a bacterial infection and that he would send a throat swab to the lab, adding that the lab will phone me should the test prove negative for bacteria. ( I am still waiting for the lab to call!)

 

The person who was uncomfortable with engaging with me, was now chatting comfortably with me. We spoke of World War 2 and Hitler. I mentioned that I have in the past seen a doctor colleague of his at the clinic whom I liked very much. When, at one time I informed him that my baby brother works as a doctor in Toronto, the look on his face was one of mild amazement.

 

It is interesting that the receptionists at the clinic ( with academic education far below that of the doctor) proved to be fair and impartial, free of prejuduce while the doctor was clearly prejudiced. It reinforced in me the belief that people should be treated as individuals as all the white staff(male and female, doctor and receptionist) I had previously seen at that clinic were pleasant individuals. I can only hope that the doctor came out of our encounter with the proverbial "food for thought", in this case, that there is variability among black people just as there is in other races.

[fortunateone 156618]

I don't see how coercion is applicable unless the agency forces someone to perform the sex act against their will which is not the case here. In this particular case a business owner has a right to dismiss anybody they want unless it contravenes labor or human rights legislation. But if the business becomes a fully regulated entity under the category of providing a service...it will absolutely be subjected to the provisions contained within the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Act.

 

But it's all just conjecture and speculation at this point because the current political powers will never allow legitimacy of sex work...it's a shame.

 

 

But there are indeed places where there are laws that regulate sex work, and in no country will a sex worker be forced to provide services against her own consent. Employers simply do not have the power to force them.. It has been written into the regulations, in fact, that sex workers have the final say about who they will or will not see.

 

In this country, at least right now I believe there are laws against procuring, meaning the agency cannot be involved with promising sexual services to clients on behalf of the sps. The provide an escort for companionship, but to suggest they can assure and promise the sp will deliver sexual services would be against the law.

 

It would be interesting to see how it will be enforced, in the example you suggest. I think you will find there are few courts who will be willing to get involved in such cases.

[Davrem 110]

Well...I've read this thread, many great points...I agree with them all.

 

But how to handle the issue of "wont see "African-Americans"...why not just focus on who she does see? That way you're not telling someone outright NO because you're <fill in blank>. Instead "this lady is only comfortable seeing <fill in blank> clients.

 

I think it's a hard blow when you say "not you", but not so bad when you say "only this kind".

 

Does that help?

[Madmaili 100]

I have a confession to make , I'm new so new to the whole hobby thing, primarily because the situation feels weird to me. I go to strip clubs every once in a while and lap dances are fun but you know that a lap dance has boundaries and there is something reassuring about it being a public business environment where everyone knows what everyone else is doing ect. I once screwed up the courage to see an sp though, (can I name the agency?), I arranged the appointment and arrived on time only to have some door difficulties the text message kept saying buzz #123 and I kept not getting a reply. 5 confusing minutes later I get a text from the SP telling me that she does not see black people. People have and are entitled to their racist preferences, but I think for the sake of the client they should publicize them, it might hurt their business but frankly they hired her. In the trade of between the agency's name and my time why is it that it's my time that is sacrificed?

[Phaedrus 209521]

Sorry to hear about that, Madmaili. Yes, it sucks.

 

All I can suggest is that you explicitly ask, when you book, whether the SP sees black people. An agency damn well ought to know this, and steer you towards someone else if appropriate - after all, its in their interests for you to go away as a happy customer. And if you see an independent SP, then you cut out the middleman entirely. Hopefully no-one will mind a blunt question, especially if you explain that you've been burned by not asking it in the past.

[piano8950 32577]

Sorry to hear about that, Madmaili. Yes, it sucks.

 

All I can suggest is that you explicitly ask, when you book, whether the SP sees black people.

 

I gotta be honest, I'm not black, but this sort of question makes me feel just sick. Everyone is within their rights to do/see who they want, but I think if agencies want to legitimize their business, someone with hang ups about certain races should not be hired. But I would never patron a business that has an employee that refuses to service any particular group of people because of their race, regardless of what they do.

 

If it's an indy, it's a whole other discussion unfortunately.

[JoyfulC 132299]

I'll admit to discriminating, on the basis of age and also to some degree on culture. I find there are certain cultures where I just can't stand their men. Russians, for example.

 

I guess I'm narrow minded, but I generally don't have any problem with someone of any race who came up in Canada or the US. Beyond that, things start getting tricky in a hurry.

 

I had a very pleasant Sudanese gentleman at one time. He grew up in Sudan, but had spent most of his adult life in Canada. And we hit it off. Until the day he started telling me that he wished his fiance were more like me, more responsive. At some point in the conversation, it came out that she had undergone female circumcision. Let's just say that the discussion that followed that pretty much ensured we wouldn't be meeting again.

 

I think we do our best work when we're comfortable with someone. Agents are supposed to work for the SPs, not the other way around. But that said, if you're not comfortable representing someone who discriminates on the basis of race, then you have to cut her loose.

[Amelia Fox 9064]

I think she has every right to decide who she's comfortable seeing. This is a very personal business so let her decide what her restrictions are. Post them and that's all you have to do,.

 

 

I agree 100% with you Boomer!

She has ever right to see whom she is compatable and comfortable with.This is her decision,then it should be held in highest of prority for her. To make things easier when screening ask for enthicity that way you can say she is unavailable. Regardless of her reasons it is none of our business to discuss why she chooses this she just does.Same as girls who only see business men,or men older then thirty etc..Personal preferences I guess..

[MisterMike 1873]

could just be a size issue. One of my buddies is like a horse and scares some ladies.

That's a myth. However since this is a personal business I would respect the lady's wishes. She is not the only one. And the aggrieved party can hardly file a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

While it is a touchy subject, it is her body and therefore her decision to refuse to see someone of a certain race but it does put the agency in an akward position to have to deal with it. The other issue is if the agency books a clients and gets on the subject of race, it's even more awkward such as having to ask a potential client.

 

There could be a variety of reasons why the SP made this request to the agency she is employed by. It could be an ex boyfriend stalking her or even friends of his or like someone else said, she may have had a bad experience. I know a lot of Asian women who worked for massage parlours in Toronto never wanted to see Asian men because they often ran in the same circles within the community which in some cases is understandable but again makes it difficult for the establishment they work for.

 

As an agency, it is your choice to hire or fire a woman who makes these requests abut something like this will cause waes once you start asking someone's ethnicity. Word travels fast in this business and a situation like this can cause significant problems regarding an agency's reputation which could lead to loss of business.

 

Ramblings from an SP who does not discriminate based on race or ethnicity.