Locker room type behaviour?

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Living in Halifax I have been reading daily in the paper the ongoing letters to the editor from the public about the bonehead comments from the Dal Dentistry 2015 Gentlemen. As everyone must now know, this group of guys had set up a private facebook group in which they said some pretty nasty things about some of their female school mates. Someone publicized the "private" comments and all Hell has broken loose. Some people are calling for restorative justice while others want them expelled and never allowed to practice dentistry, ever, while others consider it locker room type behaviour and not a punishable crime.

 

I was discussing this with my wife last night and things got quite heated. I didn't do myself any favors when I suggested that a lot of people want to make examples of these guys for all the misogyny in the world. At times it feels like a Salem witch hunt where some want to have these guys "burned at the stake".

 

For the record, I do agree these were disgusting. albeit private, comments and they deserve some consequences but from my perspective I lean towards a restorative type process where these guys work with the women they said nasty things about and apologize, take sensitivity courses, etc., and become productive members of society. After all, I once overheard a group of women in a coffee room say some pretty disgusting things about what they would like to do to some guy(not me :)). I didn't think these women should have lost their livelihood back then. How is that substantially different from some guys making disgusting comments within a private facebook group about women? Should we be so angry at each other that our impulse is to round up the villagers without allowing cooler heads a chance?

 

I realize this is a highly charged issue but I wanted to know what you think about this. Are the thought police just around the corner? Is forgiveness passé?

[Ice4fun 78407]

Well I am not sure what these young men said so my comments are not that informed. Generally I kinda feel we should be accountable for what we say and do. When we apply to attend University we accept the rules and code of conduct implied by the institution we decided to attend so it is way to late after the fact to seek mercy when we contrive the expected code of contact.

 

Certainly we are all aware that in our youth our conduct may have at times dropped below a level which we might later in life think appropriate but often this behavior is private and therefore hard to be held accountable for. In the new age of social media and ever present cell phone cams the risks of a one time indiscretion coming back to haunt you has certainly increased.

 

It was my understanding and I may be wrong that the victims of these inappropriate comments wanted a restorative justice approach... if that is true I think it would be an appropriate approach.

 

Just my Opinion

 

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[cinelli 22184]

A dentist is empowered to administer powerful anaesthetics to patients. An unconscious patient is at the mercy of that dentist. And the dentist is responsible for the safety of that patient. This is a much more srious responsibility than most face and we have every right to hold these professionals to a higher standard than a group of office workers in a lunchroom.

 

Dentists have been convicted of sexually assaulting patients that were under anaesthetic. This is not some hypothetical possibility...it is a documented reality.

 

Joking about it on facebook shows they are stupid. Joking about at all suggests they are unfit to be trusted around unconscious patients.

[Ice4fun 78407]

I have to disagree. I think the members of the "Gentleman's Club" group should be expelled.

 

Just to be clear I was not in any way condoning the conduct of these students in fact as I said in my opening comment I was not even aware of what was actually said on the facebook posts. What i was saying is: (1) this type of behavior is harder to get away with in today's social media age (2) that if the victims of this issue requested a restorative justice approach their wishes should be taken into consideration.

 

As for being expelled (which I think has in fact now happened) it was my understanding that being expelled was still a possible outcome under the restorative approach.

 

If they have been expelled they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

Just my Opinion

 

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[cinelli 22184]

Would you want a guy who made jokes like that working on your daughter?

 

While she is unconscious?

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Histrionics.

 

Men talk shit about women; women talk shit about men.

They were just idiots to do it online.

 

Of course social media is crucifying them.

[Ice4fun 78407]

Great info thanks MightyPen

 

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[roamingguy 300292]

Really the thoughts aren't that private...anyone who communicates on social media runs the risk of his/her thoughts being seen by people who were not intended to see it.

That said, even if the intent was to keep the words private, those words indicate hateful thoughts. And thoughts affect one's actions. Those "men" shouldn't be in a position where they can be alone with anesthetized ladies.

Ladies who could be your wife, daughter, mother, sister, girlfriend, friend well you get the idea. These "men" showed everyone who they are. They showed they aren't worthy to be entrusted with a patient's well being

Restorative justice isn't the only consideration. What confidence would the public have in the school and licencing agency if they were granted their degrees/licences...not to mention legal ramifications they could face if they granted a degree/licence to one of these guys and he in the future sexually assaulted an unconscious patient

 

A rambling

 

RG

[oldblueeyez 15475]

These "men" are 95% of men.

 

And how about women laughing about a man having his penis cut off?

 

 

Double fucking standards.

 

So women can laugh their asses off about that on international TV and

men can't talk shit about women "in private"?

 

Just fucking shoot me.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

These "men" are 95% of men.

 

And how about women laughing about a man having his penis cut off?

 

 

Double fucking standards.

 

So women can laugh their asses off about that on international TV and

men can't talk shit about women "in private"?

 

Just fucking shoot me.

 

 

There is a difference between drugging and raping women and locker room talk. When 13 guys decide to post about raping women...it gets real in every woman's life. Unless you are a women and have been raped by a man or a mob of men, it's hard to understand.

 

However, women talking about men getting their dick chopped off is not ok either. Ever.

 

It reminds me of my ex husband describing how he's not like a rapist so his crap is ok.

 

Let's understand that ANYONE who is saying rape is ok, needs to be stopped. Whether they are a man or a woman. It is never ok.

 

I have a female dentist because I'm not comfortable being put under by a guy I don't trust. Now I will never go under by a guy for this reason.

 

I'm upset this went as far as it did. The "locker room" crap went way too far.

 

Please don't defend them. This was not "private".

[MightyPen 67414]

These "men" are 95% of men.

Who joke about hate-fucking and raping their classmates and colleagues? You're really going to put a 95% number forward for that?

 

Citation please.

 

And how about women laughing about a man having his penis cut off?

Nobody here is saying that is okay.

 

What you've identified there is another example of speech that should have consequences. Not a reason why the Dalhousie students shouldn't face any.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I won't defend them because they were idiots to think FB is private,

but otherwise I will defend their right to talk shit about women, because

you can't police thought. And anybody who thinks they would actually

drug and rape is an idiot.

[Ice4fun 78407]

I won't defend them because they were idiots to think FB is private,

but otherwise I will defend their right to talk shit about women, because

you can't police thought. And anybody who thinks they would actually

drug and rape is an idiot.

 

I will call bullshit on that... thoughts breed behavior especially when dangerous thoughts are left unchallenged.

 

Just my Opinion

 

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[roamingguy 300292]

I won't defend them because they were idiots to think FB is private,

but otherwise I will defend their right to talk shit about women, because

you can't police thought. And anybody who thinks they would actually

drug and rape is an idiot.

 

Why wouldn't you think they would drug and rape. They want to enter a profession where they can in fact have the means and opportunity to do what they post on FB they want to do

A person's words reflect his thoughts. His thoughts guide his actions

Do you think rapists don't think about rape

Dumb rapists just post about their thoughts on FB

 

RG

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I don't give a shit what happens to them.

Serves them right for choosing a life path forever dependent on the rules of others, just like doctors, lawyers, accountants, whatever.

You guys can't do shit without fear of having a "criminal record" because you'll be stripped of your earning power.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Like I said, just shoot me.

 

You want Canadian men to be neutered and emasculated, then good luck fighting Russia/China, because that's just around the fucking corner.

 

And then exactly where will these 1st world problems fit?

 

I fully expect to be totally overrun during WW3 because of western emasculation.

[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

Good grief. I'm sickened that people really think this was ok. We don't need rape culture to win wars... not that China and Russia have a goddam thing to do with this.

 

 

 

I'm actually really, really glad they were stupid enough to post it all on a facebook group that included the school's name. Morons deserve all they've got coming and then some.

[peacectryguy 12547]

Well, I really haven't followed this. Just bits and pieces and really have found out more reading your posts on here. Having said that, These guys are idiots for talking about rape fantasies and crap like that on something as public as Facebook.

Should they be expelled?

Probably, I suppose. Honestly, I don't think it will matter that much. Where in this country will they be able to have a successful private practice anyway? They could get their degree and hang their shingle up in a nearby penitentiary maybe. The inmates will have a ball with them. Okay, I shouldn't make light of this but really, a bunch of indignation and anger doesn't help either. These guys have royally screwed up and they will have to live with it for the rest of their lives. They will likely be punished and so be it. They deserve what they get because of sheer stupidity. I don't condone their actions or statements but I guess I have become desensitized to all the stupid crap people do these days so I just can't be angry. I don't know, let the powers that be deal with it.

I don't think there are any chances of dentists doing much these days. Most offices are pretty open and there is always an assistant in the room. It would be pretty difficult to follow through on these things. My dentists office is completely open to the hallway, no doors anywhere. Most modern clinics are going to that design model, I think. Sorry, I edited this a little.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

In an average day I'll see half a dozen hotties in leggings whom I'd like to rip those leggings off and screw doggy, and when I'm with buddies we'll laugh and say "yeah!", but do we ever do it? In like 50 years?!?

 

Give me a fucking break.

[Ice4fun 78407]

Like I said, just shoot me.

 

You want Canadian men to be neutered and emasculated, then good luck fighting Russia/China, because that's just around the fucking corner.

 

And then exactly where will these 1st world problems fit?

 

I fully expect to be totally overrun during WW3 because of western emasculation.

 

Yeah and the bogeyman is under your bed.

 

Just my Opinion

 

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[Miss Jessica Lee 43328]

You got er Pontiac.... that is some sick shit. And ....... FYI.......there should have been more black boxes MightyPen....cause 4 fucks wasn't near enough fucks !!!!

 

apparently pluralizing them makes it ok ;)

[LeeRichards 177238]

 

Give me a fucking break

 

K K It's break time....... Let's all go for a donut and coffee !!! or Jack Daniels. Meet back here in 15 minutes sharp !!!

[kerrixoxo 33719]

The issue that I have with the Original poster is that he mentions "restorative approach" to work with the women affected/targeted. Some of these women had no idea they were being targeted. And even if they did find out, part of the restorative justice approach is ensuring the victim's interests are protected without being harmed. How do we know that these women would be negatively affected through participation?

 

From a public perspective, the school has a lot to lose by not suspending even in the interim the men involved.

 

And no comparing what women say about men is not comparable as the effects are not the same; effects like misogyny which contribute to violence against women (like rape!).

 

All of this considering the larger narrative of how these comments affect women's rights.

 

Considering the men's interests, I think some sort of shaming/public apology which is informed by the effects of their actions would have been helpful. They don't lose out on their education but still receive some sort of punishment. Suspension doesn't really address the issue as to how their actions hurt the school community and women--this isn't an isolated incident occurring on one campus.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

In an average day I'll see half a dozen hotties in leggings whom I'd like to rip those leggings off and screw doggy, and when I'm with buddies we'll laugh and say "yeah!", but do we ever do it? In like 50 years?!?

 

Give me a fucking break.

 

A lot of men think this way, but don't dare to say it. Men, by their own nature, are just hunters. Some are sophisticated hunters dressed in a suit and some are just average ones in a pair of jeans.

 

This thread is a heated one, but interesting. There is no doubt that there was a presumption of privacy, albeit a stupid one.

 

Disciplining to a certain extent might be justified to, at least, give them the lesson that they could be held accountable for words they utter, but to go as far as enforcing a capital punishment on those "potentially" good doctors is way too much. Let's just navigate through the heads of some of our elite politicians and we might, or "will" see serious crimes!

[CristyCurves 169032]

A thought can breed an action. If anyone has grown up around a misogynistic father who has a son, then the son has son's and you watch them grow, then you'd understand that words can turn into actions and can transform personalities.

All human beings are stupid, look at what we are doing to our planet! We all say stupid things. But when the stupid comments are about harming anyone, man, woman or animal, then lines have to be drawn and punishment and consequences given. We must teach compassion and love not hatred and abuse. Many in powerful positions have , I'm sure said worse and perhaps done worse. Lets hope this case opens a lot of ears and eyes and is the start of a new day because if one person listening to them acted out their comment, thinking their behavior would be okay because "soon to be doctors" said it, then that is far to many.

On an end note, and I'm sure most are aware, but I'll say it anyways, a guy thinking about wanting to F--k a girl is not having the same thought process as a guy thinking about wanting to R--e a girl.