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I figure it's not the guy's fault that some agencies take a bigger bite out of what the girls end up with. Don't mean to sound like a bitch, but in 15 years of working as an SP for both agencies and independent, Thunder Bay is the only city I ever worked in where girls "expected tips". This is because when I was there, they would starve if they didn't get tips. In 1997 I went there for one week and all of the agencies operated the same way. They charged $100 for one hour and we had to give them $50. The agency owner told me it was up to us to hustle for tips and that if the guys wanted sex they would have to. Because I never worked that way, I felt very uncomfortable. Sometimes I would walk away with only another $50, making only $100 myself for the hour because I couldn't bring myself to do it. Just to give you an idea, the standard hour rate everywhere else was $250 to $300 in those days. I have no idea how agencies in Thunder Bay operate presently, but that is how it was done then and it was horrible. Of course when I called to go there, they didn't exactly tell me - they just said I could make $500 to $700 a night. I knew some girls that literally walked away with $50 because they weren't hustlers. I am not saying it is like that now, but perhaps the tipping mentality is still there - which by the way is not the girls' fault. I hate to say it but after working in Calgary, Fort Mac, Peace River, Grande Prairie, Dawson Creek, Fort St. John (a real hell hole), Prince George, Kingston and North Bay, Thunder Bay was the worst city I ever worked in as far as rates went. I hope some things have improved in Thunder Bay since that fateful trip I took in 1997. If a lady doesn't like what she's getting paid from an agency, she should consider going independent. But to expect the guy to subsidize that is asking him to pay above what is being asked. If for whatever reason she has to work agency, then in my opinion, she is agreeing to the rates being paid. My rates are all inclusive. If I get a tip, I am happy, but I NEVER expect it or would tell anyone it should be mandatory. Sorry, to come down on you, but this is why some guys choose to see indies over agency girls because they don't want the pressure of the upselling once they get there. Additional Comments: I figure like attracts like. If a "bad" agency keeps operating after exploiting (yes, fining is a way of shaking them down), then there is a reason for it. That means there are certain girls who are willing to keep working for them and guys willing to keep calling them. Not all girls are mindful of their rights and if they are being exploited, it can be for many reasons. They are young, naive, dependent on drugs or some other reason for needing the money, low self-esteem, not very good SPs and no one else will hire them - the list goes on. I don't blame the victim so to speak, but with the ability to work indie, review boards like this and other resources, I am surprised to hear that these types of agencies still operate. I understand girls' reluctance to "rat them out". It's tough. I hate to sound like a broken record, but back before working independent or doing in-calls was an option, corrupt agencies were the norm. That is not the case now. There are many good above-board agencies with good reputations out there and some of the names have been mentioned here. Perhaps again it is because you are in a small city and they are the only game in town. It's unfortunate for the ladies who work for them, because they not having the positive experience of working as an SP that should be afforded to them.

i need to chirp in too. i do not like anyone trying to promote, encourage or ask or bbfs on cerb. If this is what you are looking for you need to look somewhere else and not cerb. if you pm a lady asking for this (or) post asking for it we will remove you from the site. you put yourself, the ladies and other members in risk and this adds to negative stereotypes and sets the inustry back. in this day and age its too risky for anyone to do and anyone seeking this out is playing russian roulette. ask yourself if someone is willing to do this then they must have nothing to loose. these days it is not about just getting knoked up... your playing with deadly sti's and the rest of us pay for your heathcare!

This will never become the NORM in my opinion. Since the beginning of time, there have always been and always will be someone out there who will do anything for money and those willing to pay to get that. Do you think that all clients secretly want to have BBFS and are just waiting for the girls to offer it and girls will feel pressured to do so to stay in business? I know plenty of gents who would not dare go there, as nor would I, so you go ahead and live in your world, and like-minded people like me can stay in our world. Additional Comments: So are you saying you have been with ladies who offer bbfs and that this is your definition of "true GFE". According to who's definition -yours? I am a "true GFE" and can assure will NEVER EVER offer bbfs. Shame on you. I can assure you that by declaring that, you are probably on most ladies Do Not See List now. Hope the rush was worth it.

How do you value your a(lone) time? How do you feel about being alone and/or lonely? How do you feel about the attachment we have to our cell phones, laptops, and ipods? I feel like we're constantly connected to something that may/may not be real. I feel like this 'connection' (virtual or otherwise) might infringe on our abilities to connect with people that are right in front of us. For example, I really miss just sitting on the bus and smiling at people. Being completely and utterly receptive to the present moment. I miss the time when it was more acceptable to start a random conversation with someone, before we all started hanging out with our cell phones. This is a really cool video that might inspire the thread - have fun with your responses:

For those of us who accept text booking and answer questions via text, sometimes the way guys approach it can be really irritating. You should think of it like an instant email, but shorter. Include your name, and ask if the lady is available for your preferred time. Please do not text random one-liners such as, "hey baby," or "hey, how are you?" I'm great, who are you? I understand that this may be some guys way of trying to start a conversation, but this isn't the best way to approach it. Also, unless I blocked your number, I do not keep your info in my phone, so when you text me, I have no idea who you are. I try to remember numbers, but I'm not a machine! *insert robot smiley here* Ladies, other suggestions, comments? Guys, thoughts?

I disagree, when it comes to exploitation I think you can use the justice system to put a stop to it otherwise you are enabling those that victimize the ladies. Now I understand that not all cities or towns have law enforcement that is friendly or supportive to women in the industry and it's not easy to be the point of contact for the police and if that isn't something you are comfortable doing you can always contact a more escort friendly agency to ask for advice on how to deal with the situation. As an example the Toronto Police Services has a Special Victims Unit that deals specifically with women in the industry, they will handle both crimes that arise between ladies and their clients (sexual assaults, thefts, robberies, etc.) and issues of human trafficking, pandering, etc. where the ladies may be exploited by others in the industry. I don't know what type of advice or information they could offer to a lady from another city but I know if I were concerned I would actually contact them and let them know a little about my situation, explain that I am hesitant to contact my local law enforcement only because there is not yet a 'great program like theirs' and ask if they have a contact they have dealt with locally that is sympathetic to women that work in the industry and might be understanding of the unique situation, that coming forward might put me at further risk in my community but that I do not wish to see any further exploitation. I would also ask if they have any advice on what to expect as next steps. I would also contact a lawyer and ask if they could act as an advocate on my or the lady in questions behalf. You are not breaking the law by working as an escort and if someone is being exploited to that degree then it's important that someone contact law enforcement if only to make them aware of the situation. If you don't know a lawyer that specializes in these types of services then contact an organization like SPOC or Walk With Me (an organization that helps human trafficking victims in Canada - though the women are not being trafficked they could likely refer you to someone that can assist with exploitation) and ask. You can also contact the Law Society of Upper Canada if you are comfortable doing your own screening. My point is that if no one does anything than nothing changes, it's not easy to be the first person to speak out and there are ways to do it and ways not to. You don't have to go in guns blazing if you don't want, sometimes just making small changes can make a difference, even creating options for the ladies talking to others, creating discussion within your own community and creating options within that community will bring about change. There are other things that I'm sure the ladies on here could offer insight on like value added services (no guys not those kinds of services) which are basically small things you can do to add value to a date in order to increase overall value - this would be helpful if the city has an overall issue with rates being below a livable wage. Raising awareness among your clients without creating a negative campaign, negative marketing doesn't benefit anyone and it often stigmatizes the ladies in a specific situation - instead try creating a positive campaign and create options. Your clients within the city can be very helpful with that, they are the options and often they want to help. No one wants to contribute to exploitation knowingly and often ladies being exploited don't know they have options so creating a positive environment takes a bit of work and care but if done right you can slowly create change, I believe groups like POWER (I have never dealt with them but am sure some ladies on here could offer insight), Maggies, SPOC, etc. have all worked hard to create positive atmospheres and try to engage not only the workers but the community as well. Anyway I know that's a rather long post but I really think that there are options and as a community we can and should try to stop exploitation of the women around us, we need to give ourselves a voice if we expect people to listen to our needs.

I finally met Cathy! (Don't know why I waited so long). It was a fabulous experience.:D After having read all her recco.s I went with high expectations; even so I was simply blown away! Cathy has the highest professional standards; her skills have been well documented and need no further elaboration! She's warm and friendly, and makes one feel welcome and comfortable. It's like visiting a friend. Thanks Cathy, for an immensely enjoyable time. I'll be repeating at the first opportunity.

Usually with SPs, expect 24-48 hours unless they are away and then they should have a vacation message stating that they are away. Personally, I'm not crazy about using email anymore and prefer that the person contacts me on cerb or by calling me on the phone or texting because I am never at my computer all the time. To cut costs on my phone, I do not have email forwarded there. I don't put an email address in my ads anymore either. With technology rapidly advancing all the time, I find people want a quick response and with texting, you can get an answer almost immediately.

Well, I would let the gentleman know how long you've been around for, and maybe the names you used to go by, just so the gentleman would have a clearer understanding of who you are, and/or if hes seen you before. Hope that helps

Nice thread. Good ideas: connection, exploration, growth, wanting the other's pleasure... It's living the experience fully, not being distracted with other thoughts, getting into the rhythm of it, or the rhythms, from intense and carried-away to slow and sensuous. All the senses engaged, and your partner is, at that moment, your whole world.

I'm a little confused about the discrepancy you are talking about and perhaps it's just because I am not familiar with the situation locally. Are you comparing the net profit a lady makes at one agency against what a lady makes at another agency or are you comparing the net profit a lady makes at an agency to the gross profit an independent makes? My first thoughts would be that if there is a large discrepancy between the two competitors in pay rates for agency ladies it should be easy for ladies to leave one agency and work for another, (again correct me if I read this wrong) it sounds from your post that one agency is taking a larger % off the top so their actual rates should be comparable and going from one agency to another should be easy for the ladies forcing the owners to shape up or ship out. On the other hand if the comparison is net profit of an agency lady to gross profit of an independent then one would need to take into consideration the actual costs and time spent by an independent in running a business. Tipping is nice and I don't know a lady that doesn't appreciate it but if the ladies are not making a livable wage or getting 'market value' for their area then they need to look at how they are handling their business and what they can change, not ask the client for a gratuity.

Nice thread idea, Voyi. Here is my two cents: An amazing lover is someone who creates a safe space for me to explore my needs and desires. Like you, there needs to be a particular connection. It can be a spiritual, intellectual, and/or sporty connection (etc.). I also need my lovers to languidly explore my body. Not delicately (because pressure is good), but just in a slow and relaxed way. Sex should be an exploration. It's carnal, but there's also a lot of opportunities for growth through sex, if one is open to that possibility in that moment. Gender bending is always nice too. Sometime I'm actively submissive, sometimes, I'm more dominant... never passive.

You may be right, Cato. However, I've gotta say that right-wingers seem to pay for sex with fewer qualms than the lefties--who get all bent out of shape over whether even high-end ladies really consent to what we doing. Mind, that doesn't mean that right-leaning politicians would have any problem with passing restrictive legislation one morning and then trundling off to see their favourite paid companions that afternoon!

When you send a PM requesting information such as availability, please respond to the response. I answer each and every PM as quickly as possible and if between 8am and 8pm it's usually within 30mins. When I get a PM asking if I am available at, let's say, 10:30am tomorrow morning and I reply within 10 minutes saying, not until 11:30; common decency indicates that you let me know that it's not convenient...even if it takes you 12hrs to reply, a reply is warranted!!!!!!!!!!!

I like it short and to the point.. For example: "Hi Nicki, this is John and was wondering if you are available today or tomorrow for an incall for 12 pm." I normally respond to texts but won't for the following reasons: - You start off in a crude way or "wassup ( known as the wassup guys)" or "hey baby". - You have pulled a no show on me in the past or cancel all the time at the last minute. - You are what's known as a time texting waster asking tons of questions especially explicit ones and nothing ever becomes of it. It's fine to ask questions but you can also read my ad and recos. Usually I can tell after the first text if someone is a time waster or just looking to "get off". - You harass the hell out of me. And then send texts one after the other wondering why I'm not getting back to you. I know of several people on this board who have done this to me and that's why they don't hear back from me. I will ignore you or tell you to stop texting me! If the above texting etiquette doesn't apply to you and you don't hear back from me within a few minutes I'm either sleeping, busy with a client or done for the day. I am not a high volume SP. I don't ask for much but some of the texts people send can be too much at times.

I don't see why you need say anything other than that you're not available. Why you're not available is nobody's business but your own. And if you do choose to say that it's because you have a prior appointment with another client... if anyone has serious issues with that then I'd love to know what they thought they were doing arranging an appointment in the first place!

I would hope that most guys realize that we're running a business and are seeing more than one gentlemen. If me telling you that I've got another appointment scheduled ruins things for you, I'd say you're a bit too high maintenence for my liking anyway.

SAMCRO I see your point, they offer BB. My point how many of these girls can you follow for over 5 yrs? Yes, from some extra scouting around I see that GFE involves BB services most times so I guess that would be the norm. If I need to be clearer, I agree w/u................. GFE in general means the services rendered are BB. And I hope all of the SP's and hobbiest the best of luck in their game of STI roulette. But you do know that the stigma against call girls and clients are crime, drugs, and disease? why would anyone who takes this as a serious job or a user of services want to fan the communities flames higher and drive the lot of us to our knees? (and not in the good way) Personally I LOVE MY JOB!!!!! and I hate having to work so hard at convincing "normal people" (as they like to call themselves) that what I do isn't dirty and that personal life is NEVER affected by my work. So wish we had an escort school in canada, they have them in London England and Germany. teaching potentical SP's the legalistic, business, and safety of the job. Licenced independents doing their taxes and not having to shy away from thier communities out of shame. Ahhhhh if only in a perfect world. ah well soon enough they will all learn their lessons and the "safe girls" will still be going strong. There is something great to put on my tombstone "BB will cost you $500 more" I'd love for my future grand kids to read that *cough*sarcasm*cough*

First all the reading regarding seeing ladies is their profiles/websites/threads...and the ladies I see are smart enough not to offer bbfs Second, I may be living in a smalltown, but I see ladies are in bigger cities, specifically Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa...those cities big enough for you I don't care whether a guy I don't know gets a rush out of it and a lady offers it to stay in business, it's plain dumb, russian roulette Yes the only safe sex is by yourself with your hands But bbfs is dumb, on both the lady's and the guy's part, so frankly, your post, I don't understand I hope we don't get more lady's offering your version of GFE, I hope they live a long healthy life instead RG

RG, let me try to understand the above... GFE is more then services offered, it's also an attitude BUT PSE is only "services off a menu"??? Would you care explaining that one to me? I know that some GFE ladies (I'm excluding myself in this one) will accept outcall rendez-vous at "no tell motels"... Does that make them less GFE in your books or do you think it has to do with a poor BFE (boy friend experience)? ;) RG, I have to comment on this one... I'm a total GFE companion, both in attitude including acronyms (ldk, dfk, bj, daty, hj, covered fs, msog, sensual erotic massages) and I go out regurlarly on dinner dates with my gentlemen. Now, I do not advertise as PSE because PSE also includes some acronyms I'm not comfortable providing (cim and greek) but I do not lack one ounce of the PSE attitude once I am alone with my gentleman and will also partake in other PSE pleasures like foot fetishes, cob, light domination, etc... So it is possible for a lady to be both GFE and PSE or simply PSE without having to "order off a menu". PSE is also an "attitude" just like GFE is! Side note: Some PSE ladies will charge more for certain activities such as GREEK but I have seen safe GFE ladies become "unsafe" and advertise BBBJ for extra too. What would we call that? A service off a "menu"?

Well I will chime in here. I have had boyfriends that I have given blowjobs with flavored condoms on. Trying to force women to do things that make then uncomfortable based on the stereotype that a "real" girlfriend would do that is absurd. Its all about health, safety and the woman comfort. That goes for ALL women not just SP's. Each person is different. If I was to offer a "true" girlfriend experience that would entail backrubs for me, lots of cuddles and a total focus on me. As a girlfriend I am totally selfish!! As April Dawn I am focused on your needs, desires and making your fantasy come true. Every woman is different and just because some civilian girlfriend will do something doesn't mean another will preform the same service. A gfe to me is about making my visitor feel comfortable, to create an air of normalicy, ease of conversation and basically have it feel natural, unrushed and personal. Posted via Mobile Device

The best encounters I have had, have unfolded naturally, and not focused on just the so called menu, nor was there a pre arranged script of activities. I think the GFE is more about the interpersonal/social aspects of the encounter (and definitely chemistry between both the lady and gentleman, and the ymmv factor)...and when both the lady and gentleman click, well the sexual side becomes more than a impersonal physical activity between two people. And for me at least, the GFE begins when the lady arrives, and even before clothes come off As for a menu, well one well known lady doesn't have a menu, at all, but offers a great and memorable GFE. For me, there is only one menu item essential for a GFE, and that is kissing Some more thoughts RG

I had my first sp encounter ever on saturday and admit I used a one liner pm. Now that I've gone through the forums and read these types of posts, I won't do it again. I totally missed the "New to this" as I was "so excited to be new to this".