Issues with "Menus" vs inquiring about a service

[castle 38816]

Over time I've seen a few posts, tweets, etc from different ladies essentially stating "If you ask me for a menu, you won't be spending time with me."

 

Here's my thing....without going into details I have a physical restriction which prevents me from engaging in all the activities one normally comes to expect from seeing an escort. And it limits me to only participating in certain activities. Rest assured they are considered "safe" activities by most SP's, but not all SP's provide them.

 

Also, a big reason I participate in this lifestyle is to live out certain fantasies and fetishes I have that a lot of "civilian" girlfriends may not go for. Again, they are "safe" fetishes and fantasies, I'm pretty vanilla lol, but still not things that every single escort provides.

 

Hence, if I need to I will inquire beforehand if those services and/or activities are available. I do respect a lady's right to personal boundaries...which is why I ask beforehand....but given my own restrictions and fantasies, if I show up without first inquiring only to find out that what I had in mind is not available, not only will I have wasted my own time but the lady's as well.

 

Often times a lady's ad and/or photos will grab my attention but then a disclaimer of "don't ask me for menu items" prevents me from contacting them.

 

So to the ladies who have issues with being asked for menus, I pose this question to you: Is there a difference between "asking for a menu" and inquiring about a specific service or services? I understand that inquiring in a rude or disrespectful manner is one thing...but if I inquire in a respectful and polite manner (which I like to think I do) if X or Y service is available, will that also automatically get me blacklisted as someone who "asks for a menu"?

 

I totally respect a woman's right to determine how she is approached or contacted, but I guess I'm just looking for clarification on what is considered "asking for a menu". The language used in this lifestyle is often open to interpretation.

[Ice4fun 78396]

You were looking for the ladies to reply but here's my two cents... it's all in the way you ask... if you have special needs or considerations and you discuss this with a lady respectfully then in my experience there is normally not a problem.

 

That said you do need to keep in mind that with the new laws since Dec 2014 many ladies have adopted an approach of not discussing services at all prior to the meeting... you are purchasing time everything else is between two consenting adults at the time of the date. While this can be more of an issue now it can usually be managed.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

I will speak for myself, as not everyone feels the same way.

 

I wrote a blog once about feeling like a McDonalds drive thru.

 

"I'd like a ... And ... And ... And ..."

 

"Would you like to supersize your order?, drive to the first window please."

 

The funny thing is, what they want is what I love, but I felt like I was being broken down into a sum of parts and not looking at the whole experience. So, when the laws changed, I decided to take control of how communication was done. It's not that I have an issue with LE, but I finally have the ability to determine what is and is not acceptable. Yes, I loose out on some invitations, but they are the ones I don't really want to meet.

 

Personally, I would approach it with first asking if she would like to have a discussion about how you envision your encounter. That is completely different then someone texting me out of no where saying I want X, y, and z. It can be a bit of a shock when I'm expecting "hello, my name is ..., how are you doing", vs "I want X, y , z.

 

So, if you open the communication first, ask if she is interested in a discussion, you will find that she might be open to the discussion.

 

Good luck.

[Guest S****r]

I like to be frank about what a client may want and what I am prepared to deliver. I think it allows us both to have clear expections and therefore lessens the possibility of disappointment. This was perhaps the most disturbing limit of the new legislation to me.

 

Still, I do discuss it anyway.

 

Call me a rebel.

 

Summer

[Michellexox 120]

Thanks for this post.

[TorontoMelanieJolliet 4458]

Instead of saying to the lady "do you do....?" Why not just say what it is you are interested in and asking if she would be interested in accommodating you? And if that is just too much like asking for a 'menu' why not just state your interests and see how she takes the conversation.

 

....

Now that I think about it, sometimes just yammering on about what interests you can be viewed as just wasting time instead of you being taken seriously about your preferences.

 

I guess there are sometimes you will just have to except what a lady interprets to be the best experience, with maybe not a total fulfillment of your wishes. Until you find your gem ;)

[drlove 37202]

Regarding this topic, I have come across sites where there is the usual disclaimer such as :

 

All money exchanged is for legal adult courtesan services; time and companionship, or entertainment only. Anything implied or inferred on this website is NOT to be taken as inducement for services other than this. Any sexual activities that may/may not take place are between two consenting adults.

 

However, instead of just listing rates for time, such as 1 hour for $300 let's say, they will list rates for time under specific headings such as GFE and PFE for instance. So, doesn't that imply purchasing a service instead of just time? I'm confused and just wondering about the legality of this set up under the new legislation. If anyone has any input, it would be appreciated... thanks! :)

[Helena D'Orville 33237]

Castle, the questions in your post cover several aspects when communicating with ladies, as mentioned by other members in this thread. Here is my point of view about a few things, and it is only my point of view:

 

- I don't like when someone asks for "my menu". I have a big issue with this expression. I am extremely picky with communication and words. A menu for me is about food. I am not a meal or a piece of meat, therefore anybody who will ask for "my menu" might get no answer from me, or a short/cold answer, depending on my mood. I know that some people do not use this expression with a bad intention, but I do hate it.

 

- Because of Bill C-36 there is not much room left to discuss the details of private encounters. But I agree with you and other members that it is best to know what to expect on both sides. Therefore...

 

- We can all find our own ways to discuss these details like adults using nice words and subtle ways... A phone conversation might be better than texts or emails in this case?

[GentMada 2181]

If you really have to ask then I would suggest to avoid the word "menu" and ask directly about the service(s) you are interested in or do the reverse: ask politely about her restrictions. If something is not restricted then it is safe to assume it is allowed. You will always get an answer if you ask nicely :)

Happy Hobbying.

GM

[castle 38816]

For the record, I never use the term "menu" when contacting a SP. I used it for the purpose of this thread because the restrictions put onto this site have limited the terms I can use....and also because it's the term most often used by ladies in their disclaimers...but I agree that it's in very bad taste to use it when referring to a woman's time and services.

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback so far!

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Regarding this topic, I have come across sites where there is the usual disclaimer such as :

 

All money exchanged is for legal adult courtesan services; time and companionship, or entertainment only. Anything implied or inferred on this website is NOT to be taken as inducement for services other than this. Any sexual activities that may/may not take place are between two consenting adults.

 

However, instead of just listing rates for time, such as 1 hour for $300 let's say, they will list rates for time under specific headings such as GFE and PFE for instance. So, doesn't that imply purchasing a service instead of just time? I'm confused and just wondering about the legality of this set up under the new legislation. If anyone has any input, it would be appreciated... thanks! :)

 

Remember, under the new laws, a provider can advertise specific services. She can be as graphic as she wants.

 

Where the issue arises, is that the advertising site cannot allow us to advertise specific services. As well, a hobbyist cannot ask for specific services.

 

So, this is where the dance begins. If both are not sure if it's the fox trot or the waltz, it can be confusing. So, view her recommendations, view her website, then if still unsure, as her if you can ask some questions via phone. I personally wouldn't do it via text or email, as you are leaving a trail. Instead of asking do you provide this, create a scenario you would like to play out, and ask her if she is interested in participating. Of course, there are well reviewed ladies that would prefer you just come out and tell her what you are looking for. Her website and online persona will let you know how she wants you to approach her.

 

However, the biggest thing to remember, is if the lady is well recommended, she does not work for LE, so therefore, the issue is more about respect then the whole legal issue.

 

The new girls no one has seen, has no website or online presence are the ones you must be very cautious with. If she is asking you, "so, what specifically do you want to do for $x", that you need to be cautious with.

 

I have never asked a new client what he was looking for prior to money being exchanged. Once the money has been exchanged, I will open the discussion up to make sure he has an amazing time. I know ahead of time the obvious of what he wants.

[Charlotte Edwards 8590]

I think there's a big difference between special needs/special requests versus rude menu inquiry.

 

SP's that clearly state they don't offer menu's and don't like being asked won't like the following inquiries:

 

"Hey babe what's on your menu?"

 

"Rates/restrictions?"

 

"What do I get in a session with you?"

 

"Hey baby do you x, cuz if not that's a deal breaker"

 

"So is it safe to assume you offer x,y,z?"

 

A better approach would be:

 

"Hi Bailey,

 

I was really intrigued by your pictures on your website and I was hoping to find out if my request would be appropriate and amenable to you. You see I am unable to do x, and while I enjoy the company of a woman, my fetish leans more to the Y side and I wanted to ask in advance if this is something you would be comfortable with."

 

Or

 

"Hi Janice

 

Perhaps I have an unusual request for you, and I absolutely respect your preference for not being asked about your menu. The problem for me is that I have x limitation, and I have a particular fetish. I was wondering if I would be able to inquire if my fetish is something that you would be open to? It's in regards to z. Thank you"

 

 

Generally Sp's are not heartless creatures, and we do understand some guys see ladies for alternative or limited interaction sessions. But it depends on how you approach them and come across.

 

Making a simple polite request with a brief explanation as to why you are limited and looking for something you are unsure of them being comfortable with is different than just asking for a menu and likely ignoring them when they do bother to respond to you.

 

Some ladies do not want to discuss a list of services because of the new law, and others don't want to list out services to be reduced to a menu card, because generally guys asking are really asking for WIDE OPEN MENUS and sometimes unsafe services, and regardless of what we respond they either don't reply or can push "well if you don't offer x then i'll go somewhere else"

 

I'm pretty sure you're not acting like that, so just be honest and use a polite approach and describe what the issue is and what your fetish is as best you can.

 

If however it's something like you can only "finish" in a certain way with a porn star type of act, then you may put off some providers in the end, but based on what you've said i'm not entirely sure what it is you are looking for.

[drlove 37202]

Remember, under the new laws, a provider can advertise specific services. She can be as graphic as she wants.

 

Where the issue arises, is that the advertising site cannot allow us to advertise specific services. As well, a hobbyist cannot ask for specific services.

 

So, this is where the dance begins. If both are not sure if it's the fox trot or the waltz, it can be confusing. So, view her recommendations, view her website, then if still unsure, as her if you can ask some questions via phone. I personally wouldn't do it via text or email, as you are leaving a trail. Instead of asking do you provide this, create a scenario you would like to play out, and ask her if she is interested in participating. Of course, there are well reviewed ladies that would prefer you just come out and tell her what you are looking for. Her website and online persona will let you know how she wants you to approach her.

 

However, the biggest thing to remember, is if the lady is well recommended, she does not work for LE, so therefore, the issue is more about respect then the whole legal issue.

 

The new girls no one has seen, has no website or online presence are the ones you must be very cautious with. If she is asking you, "so, what specifically do you want to do for $x", that you need to be cautious with.

 

I have never asked a new client what he was looking for prior to money being exchanged. Once the money has been exchanged, I will open the discussion up to make sure he has an amazing time. I know ahead of time the obvious of what he wants.

 

Thanks for the clarification! It seems that there are still quite a few SPs who only conduct business through texts. Just from my observations, I've seen a multitude of ads which state "text only". How does one get around that?

[TorontoMelanieJolliet 4458]

Probably shouldn't comment here ...........!

[Charlotte Edwards 8590]

Thanks for the clarification! It seems that there are still quite a few SPs who only conduct business through texts. Just from my observations, I've seen a multitude of ads which state "text only". How does one get around that?

 

 

If it says text only then text only. Personally I don't pick up phone calls because I don't work every day and have no idea who is calling and am not always in private where I could talk anyway.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[waterat 20911]

As a seldom cell phone user with no plan for my hobby phone I had assumed, probably erroneously, that it was requested to keep the cost of calls to a minimum. It is reported that some gentlemen, and I use the term loosely, waaaay over communicate and without text the loss of minutes could become prohibitive.

I never bother pestering a lady about a 'menu' - you can usually tell from her posts and ads. Not everything I would enjoy sharing is always available but I simply act respectfully, have a great session and have never been disappointed with the results.

[drlove 37202]

If it says text only then text only. Personally I don't pick up phone calls because I don't work every day and have no idea who is calling and am not always in private where I could talk anyway.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Most certainly, and waterat makes a valid argument as well. I was simply referring to Meaghan's point that texts do leave a trail, which may be a bit unnerving for some hobbyists. Is there a way to mitigate the risk?

[TorontoMelanieJolliet 4458]

As a seldom cell phone user with no plan for my hobby phone I had assumed, probably erroneously, that it was requested to keep the cost of calls to a minimum. It is reported that some gentlemen, and I use the term loosely, waaaay over communicate and without text the loss of minutes could become prohibitive.

 

I would find it hard to believe, with all the different plans available now, that calling vs texting has anything to do with cost.

 

I accept only phone calls for initial communications and I find that most calls take less than 2 minutes. The 'over communicators' will take 5 minutes or more. So you can probably imagine how much text time they would use up. I have personally never met a 'over communicator'.

 

For me, I find texting to be too time consuming. It can take over 30 minutes to finish a text conversation vs 2 minutes (or less) for a phone call. Plus I usually need my hands to do other things in the time it takes to text for a 30 minute conversation, and that can make me late for more important things. Yes that can mean missing phone calls, but I have no patience for 30 minute text conversations that go nowhere. And sometimes, people who are persistent and patient are the ones I really enjoy most as it seems we were meant to be lol

 

Also, like already mentioned, I can be more open in my discussions in a phone call. Texting some specifics can seem blunt and demeaning, but when communicating with a person (through voice) I can feel their intentions may not be blunt but just inquisitive.

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Thanks for the clarification! It seems that there are still quite a few SPs who only conduct business through texts. Just from my observations, I've seen a multitude of ads which state "text only". How does one get around that?

 

I dont know very many that would only want communication via text. The vast majority require a voice confirmation.

 

I'm wondering if you are referring to those that have handlers. Traditionally they only allow texting as they wish to hide behind the fact you are not actually communicating with the lady.

 

I might be wrong. I personally prefer text initially as I am sometimes with family and cannot answer my phone discreetly. I can answer a text, but a phone call is more difficult. However, I do explain this, and let them know when I would be available to talk privately.

 

Also, remember, get a burner phone. Very discreet, and you turn it off when not playing.

[Guest st*****ens**ors]

I remember reading an article that suggested that 40% of communication was effected through body language, 40% through tone of voice and inflection, and only 20% through content.

 

That makes texting pretty bare bones as communication, with great opportunities for misunderstandings.

 

I know I've read client emails as terse or angry when, in fact, they were only brief.

 

Sadly the clock can't be rolled back on societal norms for communication, but I'll always have a preference for contacting people by phone if that is offered.

[Charlotte Edwards 8590]

I dont know very many that would only want communication via text. The vast majority require a voice confirmation.

 

I'm wondering if you are referring to those that have handlers. Traditionally they only allow texting as they wish to hide behind the fact you are not actually communicating with the lady.

 

I might be wrong. I personally prefer text initially as I am sometimes with family and cannot answer my phone discreetly. I can answer a text, but a phone call is more difficult. However, I do explain this, and let them know when I would be available to talk privately.

 

Also, remember, get a burner phone. Very discreet, and you turn it off when not playing.

 

 

Maybe it's different in Ottawa.... Lots of independent reputable ladies do text only or email only in the GTA. I really don't have time to answer phone calls and found most that call didn't bother to read my ad saying email/text only I got way too many phone calls in the middle of the night so it's preferable for me to not have that happening

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TorontoMelanieJolliet 4458]

When I'm not working and/or don't want to answer even the people I am familiar with, I turn my phone off. Easy Peasy. And then I ignore the texts and VM that came in throughout the night. I am not required to answer when I am not working and I think most people understand that. They are just trying because they may be interested. If interested enough, they will try again.

 

And what was said about 'handlers' is true. 'Reputable' providers who conduct their business in the same way a 'handler/manager' does, only proves that there are many ways to conduct your business and there is no one 'sign' to let you know who you are actually dealing with. So to always negate the reality of the business so that a certain message can be received by certain people, can get other people into trouble. So people should be aware and listen to all opinions/personal experiences, and realize that each has their reason for how/why they conduct their business in a certain way, and then use their own reasoning for themselves.

[mrgreen760 37785]

I never ask about menu's. I don't see the point. It's a chemistry thing for me and for her. We either click or we don't, if we don't menu's won't much matter any way.

 

Peace

MG

[Meaghan McLeod 179664]

Clarification. I am not saying all that use text only have handlers. So I apologize if this is how I came across.

 

Everyone has the right to conduct their business however they choose.

[Brody Boivin 8445]

To me, it's more of a mannerism thing.

 

Menu is a list. Inquiring about what type experience the SP offers is different.

 

When making an appointment with someone, it's all about connection. If someone says "Hi Brody, menu?' I will attempt to make conversation, about what they are looking for, rather than list anything. I then respond to them accordingly, by their response. I don't offer quick services, if I can help it. It's the whole McDonalds concept.

 

1.Hi, 2.Here's my list, 3.Sex, 4.Done, bye. Not for me.

 

Robotic connections will be cancelled, during the call and will return the funds ,so they can be seen by the right girl for them.

 

Maybe it's because I am so flighty and bubbly, but I have always preferred super relaxed and even better, longer appointments. The bigger the window, the longer I have to truly show myself, have a better time and have a better connection with someone. I'm truly a people person. Lists just make it feel robotic and short lived. How boring is that?

 

I can understand if an appointment is a quickie. That's not the issue, as some people have busy lives. To me, it's very stressful to have to list myself, like a happy menu. Feels too robotic and inhumane.

 

In my opinion I feel a menu is for a restaurant and not for an entirety of an experience.

 

Now, I do realize this is not always the case, as some Hobbyists or Suitors could be shy and just want to make conversation, and don't quite know how. Some people are just awkward and want to know what I offer and aren't, quite sure how to break the ice. Although, some men see it as a doll type situation and have the mindset of " the more she does, the better she is". Everyone is different and many forget that.

 

In terms of women denying "menu inquiries", I would say it's like how everyone is stating. It's all in how you say it. I'm not a drive thru and prefer a more descriptive introduction to better see what type of experience I can offer this person or if one is even possible. My experience is a whole and the only thing I could say is what I don't do, if I were to ever list anything.

 

A good suggestion on what to say instead:"Hi I'm so and so, and I viewed your website. You have peaked my interest. I was wondering if there was anything you won't do."

 

The best and simple way to get my attention, is to just be upfront and tell me what you want or what you are curious to try.

 

My two Cents!

 

,Brody