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The world is changing...should we change too?

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We live in a fast moving/changing world and we need to adapt to it.  What have you done to follow the technology? 

For my part I have adapted to the cell phone about 15 years ago with my first ever phone big and bulky and then to the flip phone and now back to the flat big screen phone.

For 2 years now I have a air fryer that works pretty well and easy to use.

The one thing that I can't adapt is the battery car....sure it would cost less to operate but the purchase prices are crazy and it won't take me everywhere I want to go.  Most battery vehicles are good for 100-150km per charge and I live at 100-120km from any major city so forget about setting up a date with any ladies and show up on time.  If I would live in a big city I might consider it but not right now.

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I heard that it's a common thing to have a generator in the trunk of the car to charge it up.

 

Have you been keeping up to date with technology?

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   New tech and change are normally good. But being the first in line to try those come with a few drawbacks. Not only you pay far more for something unproven and often unfinished, but also act as a "guinea pig" as manufacturers work on the problems.

   As for EV's, those will definitely be part of the future. But for the time being, the technology is still in it's infancy and the infrastructure not quite ready for uncompromised use. Also, manufacturers will need to standardize the charging cables and quick charges.

   For the time being, I love my small car and no EV's or hybrids can offer better value.

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Electric cars not a fan.  Where I live, no place in town that has charging stations...I'd have to drive out of town to charge up.  Not to mention charging takes time, its not like pumping gas a few minutes later you're done.  And cost...I'll bet the cost to charge will go up when there are more electric cars on the road.

So right now, and probably for a long time I'll drive my pickup...I like it (except at the pumps lol) and it can handle all seasons, not sure about an electric car in winter.  And as for phones I've got a cell phone that's serves as my "landline" too.  Only downside of that, people expect you to be available 24/7.  Kinda makes me miss the good old days of the  internet, when it was dial up.  If you were on the internet no one could call you. So for your listening pleasure lol

Dial Up Internet - Sound Effect (HD) - YouTube

 

A Rambling 

RG

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8 minutes ago, roamingguy1 said:

Not to mention charging takes time, its not like pumping gas a few minutes later you're done. 

   To be fair, most EV's have the "quick charge" option that allows an 80% charge in under 20 min. But there still work to be done as not standardized, cost extra and some vehicles experienced battery and cable overheating during the process.

    We're close to a decade away from fixing problems, lowering costs and adapting infrastructures.

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I have friends that work at the OPG and they told me that the grid is not made for everyone to have an EV.  Also I wouldn't be surprised that once a big part of the population gets one that the price of hydro will go up and than we will be in the same place as today with fees to "fuel"/charge our vehicles.  Just a thought !

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3 minutes ago, NotchJohnson said:

I have friends that work at the OPG and they told me that the grid is not made for everyone to have an EV.  Also I wouldn't be surprised that once a big part of the population gets one that the price of hydro will go up and than we will be in the same place as today with fees to "fuel"/charge our vehicles.  Just a thought !

Have to agree about the cost.  Now a "fill up" might be cheap (compared to gas or diesel) but whether its the gas companies or electric companies they make their money by nickel and diming (and dollaring) John and Jane Q Public every chance they get.  Once electric cars are more mainstream then electric costs will go up.  Maybe on a plus side gas prices will go down lol 

A Rambling

RG

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1 hour ago, NotchJohnson said:

I have friends that work at the OPG and they told me that the grid is not made for everyone to have an EV.  Also I wouldn't be surprised that once a big part of the population gets one that the price of hydro will go up and than we will be in the same place as today with fees to "fuel"/charge our vehicles.  Just a thought !

   By the time EV's will become more mainstream, those will also be more efficient in term of range and power required to recharge. By the time we reach that point, the electrical grid should be modernized enough to keep the demand.

   If the grid can survive the use of electric stoves, dryers, AC and heat in most conditions, it should slowly adapt to expanding urban areas, EV's and other electrical needs. Not gonna happen in the next days. But the next decade or two should come with more visible changes.

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   To illustrate the progress of technology, we can look at the evolution of digital cameras.

   In the late 90's , the first digital cameras were over $1000 with 2.1 megapixels resolution and barely enough storage and battery life to take 20 pictures. At the time pro-photographers were dismissing the potential.

   A decade later for the same price could get a 16MP DSLR with enough battery life and storage to take over 800 pictures.

    I can't predict the same massive evolution for EV's. But whatever will be produced in the 2030's will put to shame everything currently available.

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The way things are going now, the batteries life is between 5-10 years and the cost to replace them with the age of the vehicle experts are saying that we will be better to buy a new car.  I do hope that they do something about that and like GT said they can only improve the technology going forward.

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2 hours ago, NotchJohnson said:

The way things are going now, the batteries life is between 5-10 years and the cost to replace them with the age of the vehicle experts are saying that we will be better to buy a new car.  I do hope that they do something about that and like GT said they can only improve the technology going forward.

    To come back to my previous examples with cameras and portable electronics. In the early 2K's, devices with integrated rechargeable batteries only lasted between 2 or 3 years. In the 2010's, things considerably improved. I got an 8yo phone and the battery can still survive several days. And I still use my original battery from my decade old DSLR. I got spares, but will likely never use those.

     The biggest problems with current EV batteries are the constant evolution and the lack of standardizations. When a majority of components are proprietary to specific brands and models, it makes it quite hard for third parties to offer affordable alternatives. Once they'll get it right and the technology will be standardized, we'll see increased battery life, more affordable parts and improved recycling programs.

      Also, it's not even clear if a decade or two from now, the ownership of a vehicle will still be worth it. In a rural areas will likely remain. But in more urban settings, taxis, ride sharing and rentals may become the more cost effective options. For the time being I still need a car. A decade from now, things could get much different.

Edited by Greenteal
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4 minutes ago, Greenteal said:

      Also, it's not even clear if a decade or two from now, the ownership of a vehicle will still be worth it. In a rural areas will likely remain. But in more urban settings, taxis, ride sharing and rentals may become the more cost effective options. For the time being I still need a car. A decade from now, things could get much different.

More then likely there will be self driven cars that will pick you up when needed and drop you off where you want to go.  It will never be the same vehicle twice in a row or to pick you back up when you wish to come back home.  Just saying...

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3 minutes ago, NotchJohnson said:

More then likely there will be self driven cars that will pick you up when needed and drop you off where you want to go.  It will never be the same vehicle twice in a row or to pick you back up when you wish to come back home.  Just saying...

    Self driving vehicles are another "can of worms". Only three years ago, manufacturers were racing to be first selling those. But many related accident (some deadly), slowed down the release and got federal agencies more involved in the investigation of those systems.

     Auto-pilot and super cruise control devices are not supposed to be used without driver supervision. But at the same time, you can't expect someone to always pay attention to the road for hours when the vehicle pretty much drives itself. This combined with ridiculously complex infotainment systems that sucks the attention from drivers. 

     Self driving vehicles could work as part of a network controlling the location and movement of each of those. But if mixed with conventional vehicles, disasters are unavoidable. On top of that, it make those vulnerable to hacking for theft, mischief and murder. And on a legal standing, who owns it and who's responsible for traffic infractions and accidents? Do people seriously think manufacturers will take responsibility? I would certainly read a bill of sales before buying that kind of vehicle.

      Will take a few high profile accidents and court cases to answer those questions.

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And here I was thinking that my car was a state of the art in terms of technology.  I have adaptive cruise control which will slow down and even stop my car if the vehicle in front of me does so and will keep my car in between the lines(white and yellow), it will also brake the car to a stop if it detect a pedestrian or cyclist in my lane.  Also will keep my door closed if someone will drive by and I try to open the door, so it will unlock if the coast is clear.  It also has cameras all around so I can back up into any parking slot and be centered and parallel with the lines. 

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       On the topic of driver assist systems, those pretty much killed a majority of sport cars. For anyone who owned a read drive coupe from the 80's and 90's, those were great to learn driving skills and for plain fun. Rewarded good drivers and instantly punished carelessness. If you survived, the brown stain in your undies made you learn.

        But most of that is lost today as a majority of cars will instantly cut the throttle and apply brakes to any loss of traction. While this may save your life, it also create bad driving habits that will kill you when the system won't work. And if you want to perform a burnout, donuts or drift, you now need to read the manual to learn the proper settings and procedures. 

         Manufacturers will use "safety" as an excuse, but the real reason is more of a cost cutting measure. While progressively increasing engine output is relatively cheap, upgrading the drivetrain for the extra horsepower and torque is more expensive. So, having more progressive power delivery via software will reduce chances of drivetrain failure. Even on manual transmissions, assists like "Rev Matching", suck the fun of rowing your own gears. And if you want to completely deactivate those systems, better read the warranty book. If you damage a drivetrain component while those assists were off, many manufacturers will void your warranty.

      

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18 hours ago, Greenteal said:

       On the topic of driver assist systems, those pretty much killed a majority of sport cars. For anyone who owned a read drive coupe from the 80's and 90's, those were great to learn driving skills and for plain fun. Rewarded good drivers and instantly punished carelessness. If you survived, the brown stain in your undies made you learn.

        But most of that is lost today as a majority of cars will instantly cut the throttle and apply brakes to any loss of traction. While this may save your life, it also create bad driving habits that will kill you when the system won't work. And if you want to perform a burnout, donuts or drift, you now need to read the manual to learn the proper settings and procedures. 

         Manufacturers will use "safety" as an excuse, but the real reason is more of a cost cutting measure. While progressively increasing engine output is relatively cheap, upgrading the drivetrain for the extra horsepower and torque is more expensive. So, having more progressive power delivery via software will reduce chances of drivetrain failure. Even on manual transmissions, assists like "Rev Matching", suck the fun of rowing your own gears. And if you want to completely deactivate those systems, better read the warranty book. If you damage a drivetrain component while those assists were off, many manufacturers will void your warranty.

      

You are right GT,  not to be mean to the younger generation but they have started to do dumb things and someone had to fix it.  We live in a world that needs to be foolproof so that nobody does something that will put their lives and the ones of others in danger.  I'm old enough to remember going out when I was 18 and had a case of beer between me and my friend in my dads car and we got pulled over by the cop only because he was bored.  All we got was be careful guys and don't drink too much !

Nowadays they will impound the car, loose you license and get a criminal record...it had to come to this. 

Also in the context of technology, does anyone remember any phone numbers?  We all have cell phones to do that so that we use our brain for other things or nothing.  Just saying...

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2 hours ago, NotchJohnson said:

You are right GT,  not to be mean to the younger generation but they have started to do dumb things and someone had to fix it.  We live in a world that needs to be foolproof so that nobody does something that will put their lives and the ones of others in danger. 

   To be fair, a majority of pre-90's cult cars were death traps. Not really due to the lack of airbags and driver assists, but for light unibody platforms with poor impact and rollover protection. Significant improvement been done since. But in the last decade, most of it involves taking control away from owners/drivers.

 

2 hours ago, NotchJohnson said:

Also in the context of technology, does anyone remember any phone numbers?  We all have cell phones to do that so that we use our brain for other things or nothing.  Just saying...

      Other than "911", I remember two and one is mine. LOL

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3 hours ago, NotchJohnson said:

 

Also in the context of technology, does anyone remember any phone numbers?  We all have cell phones to do that so that we use our brain for other things or nothing.  Just saying...

 

I remember being a kid, yes I can remember that far back, and dreaming of the day in the future where we could carry around a small computer connected to a big network that had all of human knowledge so that it was always available, just like I would see in movies.

 

We are now living in the future, and so many people don't realize or appreciate how far we've come in 50 years.

 

As for remembering phone numbers, back in the day you only really had to remember a few, yours, a couple of friends, and maybe the pizza joint. 

 

Then back in the 80s, home phones started having 5-10 saved number buttons, and it was always an indicator of how important your friendship was to someone - where your number was saved in that list / if it was.

 

I'm glad to have my contacts and calendar on my phone.  As I get older, I find I'm relying on it much more often.

 

Pro-tip!  If you like to bake, use your contacts app to store recipes!  I have all my favorites as contacts so that I don't have to dig out a recipe book or card when I want to bake something 

 

 

Edited by OldandNerdy
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There's no doubt that BEV (battery electric vehicles) are great.  Full of the latest tech (all the sensors of accident/collision avoidance, and self driving (not a fan)) and amazing performance compared to the equivalent priced ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle.

Long trips, ICE wins for now unless you bought into the Tesla ecosystem with their network for Superchargers.  Otherwise most owners can make do with standard 110v charging at home at the end of the day.  It's cheap to get an electrician in to upgrade to 220v as well.

But like everything else right now, EVs are hard to come by.  Where I'm located, the local Hyundai dealerships are quoting a delivery date of 2025 for their Ioniq5 EV. 

It was already mentioned earlier, but why by a car now and take delivery in 3 years, when there will be newer BEVs with newer tech at the time.  You wouldn't put down a deposit on an iPhone 13 right now to receive it in your hands when the iPhone 16 is being announced.  Crazy world we live in.

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I’m all tech if I can be. I would like more tech like new appliances  that work with apps. I have cameras both digital and CCTV. Door bells, theromstat, vacuum, no cable, all streaming. Bluetooth everything from in car to speakers, etc. 

 

I would have blinds as well if I could. I love tech. 
 

I won’t do an EV though. One because of too much travelling without charging stations and I won’t put a charging station in my home because I will move to an apartment in the next 10 years and I would have to put on at my trailer as well. Just to expensive to justify it. 

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Have a buddy with a Nissan Leaf, its hard to ignore the numbers. I don't know what his other costs are, but his daily commute in city traffic is less than a single bus ride ( He gets a free charge at work as well ). The car handles much better than I thought it would, was surprised. However he doesnt take it outside the city much.

I can see Taxi fleets and a majority of Lyft/Uber drivers moving to EV's.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, JackJack said:

Have a buddy with a Nissan Leaf, its hard to ignore the numbers. I don't know what his other costs are, but his daily commute in city traffic is less than a single bus ride

Yeah, though the cars need to mature, and broad adoption requires grid improvements (electric companies are quite happy to improve the grid), I do like the daily cost. The upfront cost and battery replacement costs are my hesitation. 

I'd love to someday get solar on the roof and stop paying for gas altogether :)... 

In the meantime, I like the Chevy Volt... though you're basically buying a gas and and an electric car... electric for 85 km range, then gas @ 5.6 L/100 km / 50 mpg. At least you don't have to haul an emergency generator.

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Hi guys. ( thought I should say hello after so long away, lol.). I tend to agree on the wait and see approach to the EVs. As mentioned, the high initial cost but also the maintenance costs are quite high from what I understand and the lack of charging facilities widespread is an issue but a homeowner can easily get a charger installed as well. Even if your electrical panel is full, you can have an electrician tap into your dryer feed and install a switch to transfer power to the charger and cut power to the dryer.

 EVs are coming and it isn't too far off, imo. The days of reliance on gasoline powered vehicles are numbered because people are truly fed up with the price gouging by the petroleum industry. Yes, demand is still very high but the notion that supply is compromised is mostly a myth perpetrated by the industry to drive up prices and profits. Production of gasoline is controlled by the industry and they will intentionally slow production in order to drive cost. Most people now realize this so alternatives like EVs are coming to the forefront.

One problem I foresee though is that electricity costs are already quite high as well and the cost will be driven much higher by mass use of EVs. And again, this comes down to the corporations that control the distribution and how they can maximize their bottom line. Frankly, I have quit driving vehicles altogether and it's very likely I will never buy another one. I will ride the bus, take a cab, walk or whatever before I put any more extra money in the pockets of these wealthy interests. Also, if one lives in the city, riding the bus and taking the cab sporadically is actually far cheaper than driving these days. Not only fuel costs but maintenance, insurance, tires, etc.  Of course, I now live in a city with these other options. Rural living is a whole other animal. I think if I lived in a rural area, I would stock up on supplies, produce as much of my own food as possible and try my hardest not to rely on using the vehicle any more than necessary. Regardless of what I drive. 

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1 hour ago, peacectryguy said:

One problem I foresee though is that electricity costs are already quite high as well and the cost will be driven much higher by mass use of EVs.

Interesting point, and fair. The process whereby more folks use more electricity is sometimes referred to by power companies as "electrification" and increased base (the load that is 'always' present') loads justify to regulators rate increases to increase the infrastructure ... so there is something to that. I would note though, that generally scale tends to increase efficiency per-kwh... so I'd expect any increase to be small. That said, as more folks put solar on their roofs (even in Canada), that can offset loads as well, though at a cost of more variability (sun doesn't shine at night, and wind doesn't always blow)... which means that energy producers either have to invest in more energy storage, or use more expensive fuels (natural gas) for times that wind doesn't blow, or sun doesn't shine, as cheaper fueled plants have more lead-time to light up (i.e. coal).

So yes, expect some capital investments, which will have some rate cost impact, and of course power companies have profit incentive... but at least kept to a dull roar by regulators... 

Personally, I'd love to have an EV, and solar, and a big battery... just not quite fast enough return on investment for me yet.

Edited by clearbluesky15

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1 hour ago, peacectryguy said:

One problem I foresee though is that electricity costs are already quite high as well and the cost will be driven much higher by mass use of EVs. And again, this comes down to the corporations that control the distribution and how they can maximize their bottom line. 

      People using this argument rarely complain about new construction projects and urban expansion. The demand for electricity will always grow and EV's will never be the biggest "power hogs".

      With curent progress, it's not hard to imagine the level of efficiency we'll see in a decade or two. A full charge will likely cost less than throwing a frozen lasagna in the oven.

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5 hours ago, clearbluesky15 said:

... 

Personally, I'd love to have an EV, and solar, and a big battery... just not quite fast enough return on investment for me yet.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

 

A lot of people in my neighborhood have invested 10's of thousands in solar deployments for their home, and it was only recently that I learned few, if any, of them actually have storage setup as well.  

 

Essentially they paid close to 100k in many cases to have enough panels installed on their home to be able to cover their typical usage, and will "sell back" any overage to the power company.  They thought this would mean that the power company would be sending them a cheque regularly. Much to their chagrin they realized their energy they sold wasn't worth much to the company, plus they still get a bill for being connected to the grid, on cloudy days they draw power from the grid, and over the winter they draw much more than they produce.

 

Without the ability to store power, and be self reliant, they will typically never recoup the cost of the panels within the lifetime of the equipment.   They aren't really doing much for the environment other than reducing the amount that is pulled from the grid.  

 

If I'm gonna spend that much money, I'd want to also have storage to run the house on non optimal days. And days when I need heat or AC.

 

Let's not even start to talk about EVs using traditional coal/oil fueled electricity to charge every day here in NS.  

 

I'm all for making an environmental impact, but there are other ways to reduce our footprint.

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