Vaccinations

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

Well now that Jason has opened the floor to sarcastic smilies...

 

[mike-su 337]

Perhaps this page might be useful?

 

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Evaluate.html

 

 

 

http://vactruth.com/2011/05/28/rise-in-childhood-food-allergies-being-linked-to-vaccinations/

 

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/the-peanut-allergy-epidemic-is-a-man-made-epidemic-caused-by-vaccinations

 

http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/vaccines-cause-allergies-dr-dave-mihalovic/

 

[Carrie Moon 68826]

This kind of thread upsets me.. because people who think they are well informed about science believe it can't be wrong... when it's often manipulated to make sure that drugs get passed through the FDA that aren't fit for consumption never mind safe.

 

I learned early on in my university days when studying in my statistics course how you could skew data easily to make an outcome in your favor. Why do you think so many FDA drugs are approved only later to be proven unsafe and so many drug companies sued as a result. More and more whistle blowers come forward all the time at great personal and professional expense whilst many stay silent.

 

Follow the money trail. Thankfully the internet has disseminated more information that you can be lead more often to the truth. But to quote some people on here who denigrate those who are anti-vaccine as blindly being led.. I feel exactly the same way about you.

 

re: small pox vaccine. My paternal grandmother was blinded by it.. and also given shingles. You may think it's a small price to pay for her 'dirty' needle as she called it. I sure don't.

 

You may not get the flu from the flu vaccine but you sure as hell can get a lot of other illnesses from it. AND that's not even true. Many many peope will tell you they have only gotten the flu after receiving the vaccine. THe standard answer to that is that it's a killed vaccine and you just received it too late. I say hogwash. Stopped getting the vaccine and haven't gotten the flu since. You who take it.. do so blindly on pure 'faith' that those who have made it have your best interests at heart. I see more 'faith' there than I do in religious zealots.

 

Why would you take it unless you sat there and watched how it was made?? yikes! That's a hell of a lot of trust. But then again.. you must trust the FDA and CDC. I know I sure don't.

 

google HPV vaccine deaths.. there are plenty.

More and more evidence to support autism as a result of vaccination. SAFE? hell no..

 

neurological disorders from swine flu vaccine..

http://www.garynull.com/home/terra-daily-finland-vows-care-for-narcolepsy-kids-who-had-sw.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/033816_swine_flu_vaccines_neurological_disorders.html

 

 

also note on the CDC website.. trying to cover their butts no doubt.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-flu.pdf

 

state that mild symptoms may include fever, aches, cough, headache..hmm. sounds pretty similar to a flu to me!

 

Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after the shot.

oh.. well in that case.. stay close to the hospital.. just in case eh?

[Guest N***he**Ont**y]

Perhaps you are right about some of the side effects of some vaccines I just know personally that I got pnemonia because of the lack of the shot and I have not had a reoccurence since that year because I keep up the shots!

[Capital Hunter 18263]

This is not coming from internet or any statistics but rather personal experience (which may differ from one to another) since I have my annual flu shots past 5 years I come down with flu less frequent and less severe but lasting longer!!!!, whenever I come down with one.

 

I used to catch flu about 2 to 4 times a year each with high fever lasting several days with sore throat sometimes followed by heavy cough, and now I still come down with MILD flu once or twice a year with mild fever (mostly chest infection without fever even) but lasting longer 5 to 10 days but mild, not bad enough to have to take time off work.

 

Yes it is a personal choice just one note. Do NOT take the shot when you are sick already. This year I was a bit under cloud last weekend (a bit of sore throat and very mild fever so didn't think much of it) and got the shot and by Tuesday I was sick (chest infection with mild fever for two days).

[Carrie Moon 68826]

Actually.. that's a good point. Healthy individuals will suffer the flu shot more easily.. doesn't mean it works though to prevent the flu.

 

Another point.. 30% of all attempts at health improvement have a placebo efffect. They've shown that even 'fake knee surgery' will cause improvement in a double blind study. So if you believe the shot helps.. it may!

[roamingguy 300291]

This is my personal experience too. I went for the flu shot, back mid 1990's. Felt fine going to the doctor, by the time I got home I had the flu was off sick for a few days.

Swore then, never again

Last year was the first time in years I got sick. Off sick with the flu in February for a week. Then a few weeks later, in March, off sick for three weeks with what the doctor said was a "major viral infection" (not the flu, although symptoms the same) They first thought pneumonia. But even when I went back to work I wasn't 100%, really wasn't up to par till mid April.

But I don't think a flu shot would help fight a "major viral infection"

And one case of the flu in well over ten years, well I'll keep going the way I have been going

Now, something I have heard, and not based on any scientific/medical literature, but certain moulds in foods (it was the discovery of mould that led to developing penicillin) can help the human body develop resistance to the the flu and other "bugs" Now I eat bleu cheese, and bleu cheese salad dressing. When I got the flu last year, well I started a diet that cut out that food. Maybe coincidence, maybe not, maybe just a fluke all the way around. All I know is the flu shot didn't help me. And my first time with the flu was also when one food I cut out was bleu cheese

Just my personal experience, that's all

A late night rambling

RG

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

neurological disorders from swine flu vaccine..

http://www.garynull.com/home/terra-daily-finland-vows-care-for-narcolepsy-kids-who-had-sw.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/033816_swine_flu_vaccines_neurological_disorders.html

 

Both of those articles don't have any outside supporting documentation. They contain links to other articles on the same website, except for one that links to yahoo, which when followed is a broken link.

You can't make a claim and support it with another made-up claim, unless it is purely anecdotal. At some point there needs to be factual evidence to back it up, or it's not credible.

[Pink Kitty Escorts 6195]

Here's the issue as I see it. By having government backing, large pharmaceutical companies really have free reign here. They have the ability to have stats skewed in their favor and Data to be manipulated and the public at large eat it up, and take it at face value.

 

When someone says to me, it is irresponsible to influence people to think twice before taking something that could be harmful to them. My response is I think it is equally, if not more irresponsible to not question the powers that be and look outside their sphere of influence.

 

Maybe they aren't telling us the whole truth? Maybe it might be wise to look to non main stream media, and at least get some opposing views. Admittedly there are some kooks out there, but I think there are some very well informed individuals as well.

 

Here's someone that you should google, Royal Rife

 

The first link is from a site that some of you love to hate, but if you sift through it, there is some interesting stuff and there is some stuff that is very questionable. But Royal Rife, and his story is quite interesting. This is something all of you should read or listen too.

 

http://rense.com/health/rife.htm

 

When you have top level government officials that are major shareholders in these super companies. Billions, trillions of dollars of profits on the line, what benefit do they have to see you health? ZERO. The sicker the better.

 

Cancer and allergies are on the rise, but who cares about that? I'm concerned that little Billy might get chickenpox. Guess what? He still will.. Just a weaker reaction, because he already has been exposed. Meanwhile he is also exposed to a lot of things that he really shouldn't have been.

 

Follow the money is really a great saying, and it makes a lot more sense than thinking that these companies are innocent and truly care about the public at large. Corruption runs wild in these money machines, greed is a very strong motivator. Do you want to put life up to chance, hoping that the Govt and Big Pharma have grown a heart and conscience?

 

One clarification, I am not for a second saying that vaccines aren't effective against certain illnesses. Or that they protect you against certain infections etc. My question is, at what cost ? Especially long term. Is this a short term benefit for a huge long term loss? My kids may not get the flu this season, but do I put them at risk for food allergies, immune system issues and possibly worse?

 

These "exotic sounding names" are really not all that exotic. I understand their purpose. I know that thimerosol, is a preservative. So is formaldehyde. They do their jobs in preserving the lifespan of the vaccine. Not so sure that it will preserve my lifespan. However they can pump me full of formaldehyde when I'm dead. No problem there. Maybe some of the pro vaccine individuals won't need as much pumped into them.

[Phaedrus 209521]

When I was talking about the viral loads, I was referring to the number of doctors that have come out in saying that the amount of vaccinations given to children in their first few years is too high, and can cause a number of serious problems for some children.

 

Well, I can't comment on that without knowing what the problems are supposed to be, and how frequent they are, and what the evidence is for either a statistical or a causal link between that and vaccination.

 

The reason I mentioned allergies, is that I was tying it in with the fact that again, many medical practitioners believe that there is a direct correlation to the increase in allergies in children and adults.

 

From the links you provided, they appear to be the standard bunch of conspiracy-theorists. Do you have any links to any peer-reviewed studies on this?

 

Here are a few facts, that I think are interesting....

 

So... what? There's money in healthcare? The companies that make drugs are profit-making corporations? This isn't news. FWIW, vaccination isn't anywhere close to being the biggest sector of the market - that goes to treating the chronic diseases of the affluent and aging West. Have a look at which drugs really rake in the $$$... they aren't vaccines.

 

When we are talking numbers like this, does anyone here think that it might be plausible that certain health risks are being kept from the general public? In order to ensure this incredible money machine stays on track.

 

Of course it's plausible. Why do you think drug licensing exists? Why do you think new drugs aren't allowed to be sold without approval? This isn't just bureaucracy for the sake of it. It has no purpose other than to combat this tendency.

 

Unfortunately, this is where the conspiracy-theorists demonstrate their utter lack of understanding of how science works. They equate "plausible" with "proven".

 

I think we all should start putting our trust in our lovely non corrupted government, who never take kick backs from these giant pharmaceutical companies who of course would never want to hurt anyone.

 

If you're going to do that, please remember that your arguments, such as they are, are equally valid when applied to the food you eat, the water you drink, and even the air you breathe.

 

I am pretty sure they would never want to influence the medical community into buying and promoting their products, if they knew it wasn't good for us. That would be wrong and immoral.

 

The fact that a company wishes to sell more of its products does not prove that those products kill people.

 

This kind of thread upsets me.. because people who think they are well informed about science believe it can't be wrong...

 

Er... no. People who are well informed about science know damn well that it can be wrong, and sometimes is, and that the quest for knowledge is by no means over. They understand that not every paper or every author is trustworthy, or independent. That's why peer-review and the disclosure of conflicting interests are considered so critical.

 

However, they also know that science, imperfect as it is, is vastly better than unproven rumour.

 

when it's often manipulated to make sure that drugs get passed through the FDA that aren't fit for consumption never mind safe.

 

I won't deny that this has happened. But again, this is what the conspiracy theorists get so wrong: they fail to see the difference between "it happened once" and "it happens all the time".

 

I learned early on in my university days when studying in my statistics course how you could skew data easily to make an outcome in your favor.

 

Which is why it's important to look at the data and the methodology, of course.

 

Why do you think so many FDA drugs are approved only later to be proven unsafe and so many drug companies sued as a result. More and more whistle blowers come forward all the time at great personal and professional expense whilst many stay silent.

 

"so many"? I'd dispute your characterization of that. You seem to have conflated two things here.

 

The first is the normal progress of science: since you did statistics at university I'm sure you'll appreciate the vast improvement in knowledge provided by the millions of samples we get from real-life use of a drug, rather than the few hundred that exist in a clinical trial. Yes, giving a new drug to more people enables us to find out more about it. If you want certain knowledge and absolute safety, you won't get it; there will be no further advances in medicine if we adhere to that impossible standard.

 

Secondly, there's the cases where adverse findings are covered up. This is rare (I can't think of an example off the top of my head, although I know it's happened), and this isn't about science; it's about common-or-garden criminality.

 

re: small pox vaccine. My paternal grandmother was blinded by it.. and also given shingles. You may think it's a small price to pay for her 'dirty' needle as she called it. I sure don't.

 

My sympathies to her. But I suspect your grandmother was more right about this than you... back when this happened, did they use a fresh, sterile needle for every new patient? Her calling it a 'dirty' needle may well be exactly correct.

 

You may not get the flu from the flu vaccine but you sure as hell can get a lot of other illnesses from it.

 

Like what?

 

AND that's not even true. Many many peope will tell you they have only gotten the flu after receiving the vaccine. The standard answer to that is that it's a killed vaccine and you just received it too late. I say hogwash. Stopped getting the vaccine and haven't gotten the flu since. You who take it.. do so blindly on pure 'faith' that those who have made it have your best interests at heart. I see more 'faith' there than I do in religious zealots.

 

Please read my earlier explanation in this thread of how the 'flu virus works and why it sometimes doesn't, with particular reference to the existence of many 'flu strains and the problems of trying to predict which ones will be important a year in advance. It's not perfect; it's better than nothing.

 

Why would you take it unless you sat there and watched how it was made?? yikes! That's a hell of a lot of trust. But then again.. you must trust the FDA and CDC. I know I sure don't.

 

For the same reason that I also eat food that I have not personally grown and prepared. I think most of us do this.

 

I trust the likes of the FDA and the CDC because I have no reasonable choice in the matter; I don't have time to learn how to prepare vaccines from scratch and actually do so. Neither do I have time to carry out clinical trials myself. Also, when I visit a restaurant, I don't stand in the kitchen and personally ensure that the chef washes his hands while he prepares my meal.

 

More and more evidence to support autism as a result of vaccination. SAFE? hell no..

 

I knocked this one down in a previous post.

 

also note on the CDC website.. trying to cover their butts no doubt.

 

The reason for this is that they MUST, by law, report anything which is reported by patients who have had the vaccine. This includes symptoms reported by very small numbers.

 

state that mild symptoms may include fever, aches, cough, headache..hmm. sounds pretty similar to a flu to me!

 

Or a cold. Which the patient may have already been incubating before they got the shot. And yes, it's possible that they did get these symptoms as a result of exposure to the dead virus in the vaccination... in which case I really dread to think what will happen to them when they're exposed to the real thing. I guess this is why 'flu has a mortality rate.

 

Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after the shot.

oh.. well in that case.. stay close to the hospital.. just in case eh?

 

Yes, that's why they always ask you to wait 15 mins after getting the vaccine before you leave.

 

here's the big problem in this controversial issue.. you can gather all sorts of 'data' on either side to back up your point of view. none of us sits in a labratory and tests these things personally.. so you have to rely on your already likely strong point of view of what you believe..

 

Er, no. You can look at the published evidence, and gauge its credibility. This is why the double-blind trial and peer-reviewed publishing are so important, why it's so important for researchers to declare conflicts of interest and funding sources, and why not all the 'data' you may find is equal.

 

Which, incidentally, brings me back to the MMR vaccine/autism thing. I said in a previous post that the doctor who was responsible for this bit of junk science was banned from practice. Please note, however, that he wasn't banned for being wrong; people being wrong and having theories disproved is just part of the normal progress of knowledge. He was banned for funding conflicts of interest, for falsifying data, and for abuse of children in his care.

 

but yet you listen to a multi-million dollar corporation who has all the gov't officials in their backpocket making not a mere few cents off of your purchase.. but millions of dollars off of an unproven 'cure' for the flu and trust them to have your best interests at heart?

 

Trust the corporation? Of course not. But as I explained earlier, I do trust that they want to continue to be profitable. And I'm afraid I simply don't buy that everyone who works in the regulatory agencies has been completely bought up by the drug companies... although I guess this is why they're called "conspiracy" theories :)

 

Another point.. 30% of all attempts at health improvement have a placebo efffect. They've shown that even 'fake knee surgery' will cause improvement in a double blind study. So if you believe the shot helps.. it may!

 

Er... ALL attempts at health improvement have a placebo effect. This is well understood.

 

If you meant to say that 30% have no effect beyond the placebo... you may well be right - but please bear in mind that "attempts at health improvement" also includes things like magic crystals and homeopathy. While I'm on the subject, note that the FDA and similar organizations don't just assess the safety of a new drug before licensing it; it won't be licensed unless it's safe AND effective. That's why they don't approve many things that simply do no harm.

 

Both of those articles don't have any outside supporting documentation. They contain links to other articles on the same website, except for one that links to yahoo, which when followed is a broken link.

 

This is pretty much par for the course for the conspiracy theorists, alas.

 

You can't make a claim and support it with another made-up claim, unless it is purely anecdotal. At some point there needs to be factual evidence to back it up, or it's not credible.

 

Sure you can! Welcome to the Internet!

[Guest *l**e]

a few points...

Carrie...it is terrible that your gramma went blind after the small pox vaccine. However, she did not die of small pox (like the over 2 million people per year prior to small pox). If not for vaccines, millions would be dying of cholera, small pox, and many other easily avoidable diseases.

 

second...I work quite closely with the head of infection control and and head of research epidemiology at a local hospital. Both are world renowned for their accomplishments in research and I think probably much more capable of discerning fact from fiction in the world of research. Both say that not only is the flu vaccine safe, but it should be taken by everyone except those who are allergic. They also state quite clearly that there is no connection to childhood vaccines and autism. I trust these people with no hesitation. They gain nothing by recommending their use.

 

I quote "Of the several thousand independent worldwide studies conducted, there has never been even a single reliable, double blind study that shows any connection at all between child hood vaccines and either autism or Type 1 diabetes."

 

Here is the bad part, although many people knock big pharma for skewing study results, etc, (and they are correct), the same people seem to very willingly ignore completely valid, independent , double blind studies in favor of vague, small core anecdotal studies. (for example the studies that show echinacea cures colds (proven false in 100's of studies worldwide).

 

I understand people's hesitation in trusting drug companies, but that's why independent studies occur. To help us.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

With Donald Rumsfeld having a stake in marketing a flu "remedy" to as many people as possible,

I'm leery of any corporate involvement in flu prevention/treatment. That guy's scary!

And yes, I know Tamiflu is not a vaccine, but it's in the flu vein, so what the hell.

 

Donald Rumsfeld makes $5m killing on bird (swine, etc.) flu drug

 

I'll trust Mother Nature before I trust megacorporations:

 

Madre Labs, Immune Punch with AHCC and Epicor

 

 

I think the corporation is one of the biggest threats facing our existence

(Monsanto with PCBs & glyphosate & GM foods, TEPCO with a nuclear

disaster worse than Chernobyl which is still ongoing, etc.).

But there are probably too many of us humans on the planet anyway,

and sooner or later Mother Nature will cull us down to a manageable size

with some crazy new hyper flu which science will be helpless against,

and when it's time for me to be culled, pass me the bottle and let's go! ;-)

[Carrie Moon 68826]

I apologize for the links. It was late last night when I came upon this thread and I didn't have any handy.. although I should save them up. This discussion comes up every year. I have gotten lazy and relied on mercola.com and the site was down for maintenance last night.

Also the problem with some of the articles I provided linked to sites that had moved pages.. this time I checked many of the links and they're current.

 

So.. here we go.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/15/australia-bans-flu-vaccine.aspx

 

toddler dies less than 12 hrs after vaccination. Several others have been admitted to hospital with convulsions in Australia. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/toddler-ashley-jade-epapara-2-dies-after-flu-vaccination/story-e6freon6-1225857803417

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=17701480

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/31/flu-vaccination-epa-safety-limit-for-mercury.aspx

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/08/more-proof-flu-shots-dont-work.aspx

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/06/24/swine-flu-experts-were-paid-by-drug-companies.aspx

 

 

There are no peer-reviewed double-blind studies available that the flu vaccine works. It's a crap-shoot every year. They take the top 3 possible major offenders to make each new vaccine.

If that were it.. I wouldn't have such a problem with the concept. It's actually homeopathic in nature. However homeopathics are made with either alcohol preps or lactose powder. Vaccines are inserted via needle (or occasionally nasal spray - the live version) and use several very toxic preservatives.

The claim on the preservatives already mentioned is that the does are extremely small. They're big enough for me.

I wouldn't in my right mind inject formaldehyde, mercury, msg etc into my body any more than I would knowingly ingest it.

This is enough for my already sensitive immune system to have damage to cause a weakening to create a cold, flu or worse. That is the main issue for me.

 

You may not find the articles helpful. Long are gone the days where I'm going to go the trouble of researching a paper directly myself to prove what I already believe and know. Again that's the crux of it. You can't back up what you know and believe by saying the links don't support the evidence.. but you conveniently ignore the claims of deaths I provided.. Not important enough to consider?

 

I know.. that's hard to prove too eh? soooo many people are coming forward claiming within days that their kids have developed autism.. never mind that one scientist evidence was nullified. Same is true with HPV..

The flu vaccine may not have the same severity..but there are so many other ways to prevent getting the flu.. take care in what you eat (and actually I do prepare virtually all of my own food at home.. rather than eat out), make sure you're getting enough vit D, there are several herbs you can take..

I can spend some time searching more articles.. but the movies are easier.

 

In north america we have the highest incidence of cancer in the world. Cancer is a huge money making industry. View http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/pre-2007/files/health/cancer/

Wendy Mesley did an expose after getting cancer and getting her blood tested for several toxins she was surprised to have in her blood.

 

Here's an interesting link from the same site on where to look for common carcinogens in what you eat and use in your everyday household products

 

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/pre-2007/files/health/cancer/whatyou.html

 

actually.. that reminds me. A few years ago I heard on the radio that Harper (and I forget who else. McGuinty?) had blood tests that showed several of the same toxins and then never heard a thing about it. I couldn't and still can't find a shred of this online. Anyone know where it is? We all have them. If people really understood how poisoned we are they'd be up in arms. Media won't allow it.

 

Watch for aspartame (speaking of Donald Rumsfeld's involvement in another great toxic scheme) a movie called sweet misery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0UDeydlEDM

 

the flu vaccine is not an exception the pharmaceutical drug cartel industry.. it's the norm.

 

As for the above mentioned monsato issue.. it's paramount right now.

 

oh yeah.. and then there's the fluoride issue.. several documentaries about both of them right now. GMO and fluoride are banned in several other countries.. not because there are few conspiracists out there like me.. but because they woke up!

 

genetic roulette.. on GMO's (but there are several other movies out now) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_Hs2nNQDA

 

Additional Comments:

well now! this is extremely interesting to me.

It was mentioned the Dr. Andrew Wakefield was debunked re: MMR and autism. I urge you all strongly to watch this video... called Selective hearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fusaNwT22iQ

[Guest *l**e]

I'd like to answer some of Carrie's comments: I checked your links and evaluated the studies your linked to and found some interesting things.

 

-there are actually hundreds of peer reviewed double blind studies showing the effectiveness of the flu shot. The problem is how they are formatted. here's the problem; this year's shot is good against 3 strains of influenza. The studies done show that it will be very effective against those three strains. What they don't show is how many people caught different strains etc. There are hundreds of strains of influenza each year, but each year it is quite easy to tell which flus have the highest likelihood of transmission. that's the one they will promote this year

 

-your link to the Australian child's death does not tell if they ever connected the death to the shot. It only says that a kid died after the flu shot. I can tell you that yesterday, a guy crashed hi car after gassing it up at a shell station. This does not mean that gas stations cause death. If you research further, you will find that the WHO and Australian authorities never found a connection at all. The vaccine was found to be safe.

 

-flu shot and GBS....this article quotes the CDC is 1976. since then there have been hundreds of studies proving that false...absolutely. Even The Ottawa Hospital's Dr Virginia Roth (head of Infection Control, and because she is a Canadian MD cannot earn money from any drug company) states clearly that there is no connection.

 

-quoting Mercola as "fact" is ridiculous. It is one of the most biased sites I have ever seen. They constantly misquote people, and worse, they never list them actual studies they claim to be quoting. They say things like "A recent University of ____ study shows ____". They never list the actual study. A good example is the "study" they seem to be hanging their hat on from the Cochrane group. They say that this study shows no measurable improvement in flu rates after getting the flu shot. I went to the Cochrane site and checked the study itself. In their review of 7 other studies (did not do one themselves), they concluded that in the group randomised to get the shot, 1 in 200 people still got the flu. In the group randomized to no shot, 1 in 100 got the flu. Some would say that the NNT (number needed to treat) in this case does not justify using the shot. Others would say that because you have to consider the entire population, this is actually a huge improvement in flu cases. (for example, in a country the size of Canada, that would mean if everyone got the shot, we would have only 75000 case of the flu instead of 150000. some would consider this huge.

 

I think the thing I find the most comical is that all these homeopathic groups put down pharma for trying to make a buck when they are just as bad if not worse. Pharma is evil...for sure, but at least they are reviewed by independant researchers all over the world. The homeopaths are so badly studied that it is laughable. I could pull a plant from my backyard, say it does something, do a half assed study to "prove it" and market it tomorrow.

 

The Echinacea scam is the biggest example of this. Billions have been made selling this snake oil. It's a total joke. Natural "medicine" does not ever comply with any reasonable scientific process and often when it is actually studied properly is shown to be a total sham.

 

Finally, right here in Ottawa we have Dr Ian Steill. He is widely considered to be one of the top ten researchers in the world. He earns no money from any company or corporation; all his earnings coming from practicing medicine (at TOH) and from grants via Canadian Universities. He has no vested interest in promoting anything that doesn't actually work. There is probably not a single person in Canada that is better at purging studies and finding truths. He gets his flu shot every year. I think I would trust him anything you have posted.

 

I am a health care professional and have been for a long time. I get my flu shot...all antibodies are good antibodies. Ask the people in poor nations how much they are enjoying Cholera, small pox and TB. You don't want to be vaccinated, go there for awhile and see it with your own eyes.

 

and just FYI...cancer "rates" are not up...cancer "incidents" are up. This is rational as not only are there more people, but we are much better at diagnosing it now than even 10 years ago. The fact that incidents are up is a good thing; it means we are diagnosing it better. We screen more people and catch more disease. By the way, life expectancy is waaaaaaaay up for people with cancer as well as the five year survival rate.

The only one factor that has the potential to reduce life expectancy in our society right now is obesity. On that note, I'm going to get off the PC and go for a walk.

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Well here's some science for y'all. Apparently getting the flu jab increases the odds of you getting the swine flu,

and of it being worse. The results were replicated in ferrets, which behave pretty well the same as humans in

relation to the flu apparently. So why get the flu jab just to avoid some inconvenience (unless your immune

system is compromised) if it's going to increase your risk of succumbing to the next swine/bat/ape/bird/alien flu?

 

Vancouver researcher finds flu shot is linked to H1N1 illness

 

And, man, is Dr. Danuta Skowronski hot or what?! ;-)

 

 

Additional Comments:

Natural "medicine" does not ever comply with any reasonable scientific process and often when it is actually studied properly is shown to be a total sham.

 

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss natural medicine. Natural medicine has sometimes thousands of years of

wisdom behind it and has its place, and that's a quote from a young Emerg doctor. When it was thought I

might have been having prostate ills (thankfully I wasn't), I asked the walk-in doc what he thought of Saw

Palmetto and he said, "Of all the herbal treatments out there, this is one which I have some faith in." My

crazy family doc wanted to put me on an ACE inhibitor for supposedly pre-hypertension; ACE inhibitors were

synthesized from viper venom. Statins were isolated and synthesized from red rice yeast. Hell, aspirin was

isolated and synthesized from willow bark/meadowsweet. Natural remedies are the basis for many modern medicines.

 

and just FYI...cancer "rates" are not up...cancer "incidents" are up. This is rational as not only are there more people, but we are much better at diagnosing it now than even 10 years ago. The fact that incidents are up is a good thing; it means we are diagnosing it better. We screen more people and catch more disease. By the way, life expectancy is waaaaaaaay up for people with cancer as well as the five year survival rate.

 

 

I think we're flooded with more carcinogens now that at any other time in human history, so I believe that rates

are up and will only continue to go up. But yes, you're right, when people live longer and technology gets better,

diagnosis gets much more frequent, which many experts argue is not a good thing, as many cancers are getting

overtreated, reducing the quality of life of many who would otherwise have died of something else. I think most

oncologists just roll the dice and hope their patients roll with them. Who the hell knows, I sure don't.

 

I guess nobody knows for sure. Just do what you feel comfortable with. We all have virii to worry about in this hobby

(HIV, Hep C, HPV, etc.) and if there were vaccines to prevent them all 100%, I'd take them. God, I googled cunnilingus

a while ago and your chances of getting HPV-induced neck/throat cancer go way up when you've licked a lot of

pussy. What can you do?

[Carrie Moon 68826]

Wow.. Another very misinformed opinion.

 

re: cancer. Wrong.. that's your opinion. Not fact. Also not a well backed up fact.

 

re: vaccine manufacturers and accountability.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/22/us-pharma-vaccines-lawsuit-idUSTRE71L41420110222 (The Supreme Court ruled that federal law shields vaccine makers from product-liability lawsuits in state court seeking damages for a child's injuries or death from a vaccine's side effects.)

 

Using a comparison of herbal or homeopathic remedies.. we'd all be strung up and burned were we getting away with the same types of things.

 

and something re: the flu studies.. one major flaw. They lump pneumonia and flu together with deaths. I personally don't know one person who has died of the flu.. but I know several who have of cancer. There are many deaths due to pneumonia.. not all are caused by the flu.

 

Vaccine studies are extremely flawed in many many ways.. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19837123 (Interindividual variations in the efficacy and toxicity of vaccines.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1505512/ (Pertussis immunization and serious acute neurological illness in children.)

 

Please provide these

hundreds of peer reviewed double blind studies showing the effectiveness of the flu shot

It's not possible. Each year there are 3 best guesses made.. and more than one manufacturer for the vaccine.. EVERY YEAR we are guinea pigs!

 

I don't know where you get the information that echinacea is a scam.. but first of all.. it's a herb. Echinacea along with 1000's of other plants have many medicinal purposes. That's fact. Not theory.

BUT It's not a homeopathic. Homeopathy has tons of back-up research as does echinacea never mind tons of other great herbs. In point of fact many drugs are and were formulated from herbs. Aspirin, Digitalis to be two well known examples.. but a herb of great mention that has long been maligned is Marijuana.

 

Mercola is very reputable. also.. what the heck is wrong with bias. You have yours. I have mine. We all do!

For each article he posts.. you can go to the bottom of the page. Click on + sources and references.

 

Here's todays for instance

 

Analysis Finds Flu Vaccine Efficacy Lacking, as Flu Vaccines are Suspended Across Europe and Canada

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/06/flu-vaccine-efficacy.aspx#_edn15

 

and here is the list

 

• 
  [--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--][--]

1 MedicineNet.com October 26, 2012
[--]2 The Lancet Infectious Diseases 2012 Jan;12(1):36-44
[--]3 WFMY News2 October 16, 2012
[--]4 New York Times May 8, 2009
[--]5 Annals of Medicine 2007;39(5):392-9
[--]6 Reuters October 17, 2012
[--]7 Reuters October 24, 2012
[--]8 Wall Street Journal October 25, 2012
[--]9 Reuters October 25, 2012
[--]10 The Inquisitr October 27, 2012
[--]11 CBC News October 27, 2012
[--]12 See ref 8
[--]13 Vaccine 2011 Nov 8;29(48):8982-7
[--]14 The Journal of Neuroscience, 3 October 2007, 27(40): 10695-10702
[--]15 See ref 14
[--]16 Infectious Diseases in Children October 24, 2012

 

 

As for homeopathy being held to a standard.. or acupuncture or chiropractic etc etc..

 

I recall one death of a person (I believe it was a few hrs) post chiropractic treatment. It was all over the mainstream news. Meanwhile.. the side-effects and deaths over the pharmaceutical industry have strong attempts to be hidden from the general media.

 

BTW.. a homeopathic remedy cost about $7 - not a huge money making venture..and I can tell you of countless cases where I personally have saved patients quality of life.. from my own grandmothers shingles (My mistake on small pox.. chickenpox is what causes shingles and she's passed now so I can't ask her what vaccine(s) caused her blindness as a child) In her case shingles (modern medicine caused it and couldn't heal it) being a much more minor side effect than blindness which I could do nothing about as she had prosthetic eyeballs.

 

> to a severely arthritic man who was put on a life-threatening anti-malarial drug by a well reknowned rheumetologist in Toronto (he got off the meds and one homeopathic made him able to run never mind walk)..

> to a woman with severe migraines who was on 30 codeine pills every day..(followup to a major car accident 20 yrs prior)

>to another woman with severe endometriosis (claims I saved her marriage)

 

 

I understand there's a common misconception that herbal medicine and homeopathic are the same thing but they are like night and day. Homeopathic hospitals are very common in other countries. Here.. nope! We rely on the almighty drug corporations. Keeping in mind I had those patients during a mere 6 month residency prior to being arrested for the job I now have.

 

Comparing a childs death from post-vaccination.. and there are several.. not just one.. to a car getting into an accident is purely callous.

Anyway.. I'm likely done with this thread. It saddens me a great deal that there's such a rift over this stuff. But it is representative of the general population whether it be this or politics or what not..

BUT if one person listens to this and looks further into it I feel it's worth it.

 

for anyone interested.. I found this site interesting.. here's a history of the flu vaccine.

 

additional comments: Bringing back the autism/vaccine issue..

 

CDC Autism and Vaccine Researcher Indicted for Fraud

 

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/cdc-autism-and-vaccine-researcher-indicted-for-fraud/

I realize the links in this case are dead once again.. sites move things. So I searched my own.. see below

 

http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/04-13-11.html

[Meg O'Ryan 266444]

I am 42yrs old so I am pretty sure that I don't need to worry about autism. Because of my eczema I was not vaccinated as a child but did get vaccinated for hep a and b in my twenties due to my profession at the time.

 

My question comes down to the merits of preventing preventable infections/diseases. I am a healthy person who takes her vitamins and follows a good diet etc. lets face it, anyone who indulges in spirits, tobacco and processed foods is a target for any number of illnesses...which probably means the majority of the human race unless you are solely organic.

 

As someone stated before, smallpox and polio have been practically eradicated because of vaccines. Are there no merit in the current available vaccines? What has changed?

 

As far as pharmaceuticals go, why aren't people all over the thread concerning Ed medication, or birth control meds?

 

I stand by my flu shot as in all of the years I have taken it i have never even had so much as a sniffle. Perhaps it is my good health and the way I go about keeping myself that way or perhaps it's because I have a bit of faith in my long term health provider.

 

While I appreciate it, I am more interested in success stories than conspiracy theories. :)

[Luckyme 41401]

I am 42yrs old so I am pretty sure that I don't need to worry about autism. Because of my eczema I was not vaccinated as a child but did get vaccinated for hep a and b in my twenties due to my profession at the time.

 

My question comes down to the merits of preventing preventable infections/diseases. I am a healthy person who takes her vitamins and follows a good diet etc. lets face it, anyone who indulges in spirits, tobacco and processed foods is a target for any number of illnesses...which probably means the majority of the human race unless you are solely organic.

 

As someone stated before, smallpox and polio have been practically eradicated because of vaccines. Are there no merit in the current available vaccines? What has changed?

 

As far as pharmaceuticals go, why aren't people all over the thread concerning Ed medication, or birth control meds?

 

I stand by my flu shot as in all of the years I have taken it i have never even had so much as a sniffle. Perhaps it is my good health and the way I go about keeping myself that way or perhaps it's because I have a bit of faith in my long term health provider.

 

While I appreciate it, I am more interested in success stories than conspiracy theories. :)

 

I totally agree with you. Eversince I started taking my flu shots a few years back, I hardly have a sniffle let alone contracting a full-blown flu. The fact that I take great care of my health, eat right and exercise vigorously and regularly may have helped. But knowing how much suffering I had had when fallen ill with the flu (before I started taking the shots) and the likelihood of a life-threatening situation, I will willingly take the shots. In fact, I've just had my shot today.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Don't forget Dukorol! That's all I have to say!

 

http://www.dukoralcanada.com/

[backrubman 64800]

Don't forget Dukorol! That's all I have to say!

 

I have to agree with Nicolette. This is one vaccine that (at least for me) has absolutely consistent positive results and can make a major difference in your vacation. It's only good for three months and has to be taken a couple of weeks before departure but it works. I know this as I have also suffered the consequences of skipping it :)

[Guest *ebu**]

Quackwatch is perhaps the best resource for an objective look at health frauds, marginal treatments, etc. A wealth of objective material for the critical thinker.

 

http://www.quackwatch.com

 

Stay warm and healthy this winter!

[mrrnice2 157005]

Thanks for the reminder Meg. I am just back from getting my flu shot. :)

Hopefully I will be around for a while to engage in a really good make out session sometime soon. :)

[piano8950 32577]

Fact: I got a flu shot once, and soon after got horribly sick

 

Omitted from above: It was my first winter in Canada, a rather cold one at that. I was not prepared for how cold the weather would get (Prior to that winter, I'd never experience temperature below 0C). A flu shot does not protect me from being under dressed in the cold.

 

Anyway, I get it most years when I remember to (and not lazy). I've been more diligent on it if I have projects scheduled for later in the year. I cannot afford to be sick for my clients and not give my 100%

 

On a related note, until I get my shot, I'd be less inclined to visit an MA or SP during the season if she declared she would not get one. I can respect people's choice to do whatever they want with their own body, but I can make the decision to protect mine as I see fit.

[Guest Ed The****]

Got my flu shot today.

[oldblueeyez 15475]