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I have been noticing alot of negativity and frustration on this board lately, and as such and haven't really been participating as much. However, I wanted to put something positive out there for all the wonderful gentlemen who treat me like the Indian Princess I am!!! As some of you may know, I moved up here from the Windsor/Detroit area, due to the economic downturn when the Big 3 closed. Since arrivng in Ottawa, I have to say the difference is night and day as far as the clientele. The vast majority of you are nothing but gems to me, which was a refreshing change from the cash strapped, stressed out, and rude people from home. That, and being in school, is what has kept me here in Ottawa. Sure, I do put up with the occasional headache, but that's just life. I for one, especially coming from a place in an economic depression, am thankful for your guys company and welcoming attitude:). Thank you Ottawa for giving me a new home, a place where I feel myself and my services are greatly appreciated and the success to achieve my goals in life. I dedicate this song to all of you!!!

What I am about to say is not to critisize anyone in particular but we are selling a service and we are selling intimacy. These questions are bound to come up and at times you cannot sugarcoat it. Sometimes guys want to know and other than being really vulgar, how is someone supposed to carefully choose their words? What may be considered disrespectful to one person may not to be to another person. We have the choice to respond or not. For every guy that is rude, there are 10 other guys that will be respectful. These so called acronyms are ones that have been established in the business over time and I'd rather have them ask me these type of codes words than using particularily vulgar words which is really the only other route to take. I agree that there are ways to ask certain things and at the end of the day guys are just asking a question. And even though we may not want to be reduced to menus and body parts, if they are looking for a particular type of service, they are entitled to ask. We are selling intimate acts whether we like to think of it that way or not. There will be guys who will be disrespectful but for the most part they are in the minority. Perhaps I am a seasoned SP who knows the score and from day one if I couldn't take the heat, I would have gotten out of the kitchen. I used to be sensitive to certain things but now I let most of it roll of my back. All of it comes with the territory in this business, roll with the punches and take the good with the bad. I've got better things to worry about.

Didn't you know we all own one of these?

Honestly, I don't know why I'm bothering as trying to enlighten you as to why you're mistaken in your beliefs is like beating a dead horse. There are ALREADY laws in place to deal with trafficking and pimping. As you have already admitted yourself, you haven't done much reading and what you have read you admit is (likely) biased. Maybe that's a good sign that you don't have the full story and therefore are not well-versed enough in the situation to make an informed opinion.

I'm very sad and disturbed that someone who retains our services would support a criminal system that stigmatizes us and puts us in physical danger.

SA, I never thought that you would take a public stance in favour of decriminalizing prostitution. You've been clear about liking things the way they are even though you know that the current laws put women in enormous danger and make street workers easy prey for the likes of Robert Picton. I don't know what you think of him or the women he killed, but it is no longer possible to consider that the stories of missing and murdered women are exaggerations or fabrications. Picton is reported telling a stoolpigeon in his jail cell that he'd killed 49 women, and wanted to make it 50 before he retired from his work. He had every reason to think he would succeed, too, since the Vancouver City Police didn't t consider aboriginal prostitutes to be a priority. It is troubling to me that anyone should imagine that by only engaging paid companions in outcalls, and thereby staying within the narrow limits of the law, no one connected with those outcalls is working illegally. If men who seek outcalls use escort agencies, they know they're dealing with a pimp or a madam--people who are living off the avails of prostitution. Agencies are very good at matching up clients' sexual interests with the things their girls are or are not willing to do while quoting prices for the services the client wants. True, telephone conversations are considered private communication and so the agencies aren't subject to prosecution, but everyone knows this is a smokescreen. If the SP is driven to her meeting by someone else, that driver is also living off the avails, because he's working for the agency, even if the SP is, technically, working legally. The courts have long been clear about this: prostitutes are not entitled to use drivers or bodyguards; if they do, those staff are living on the avails. It's true that it's not difficult to get around this since agency outcalls are arranged privately and no one really pays much attention as long as everything is done quietly, without disturbing the neighbours. But, again, it's a smokescreen. My point is not to split legal hairs or quibble about details, however. What I'm trying to say is that thoughtful people recognize that it is impossible for a woman to work as a prostitute legally if she involves anyone else in her work. But if she doesn't--if she sets up her calls, herself, and drives herself to meet the client at his hotel or home--she puts herself at enormous risk, with no back-up immediately available to her if she needs it. Tania will make her tour and she will consistently exaggerate any numbers she refers to. I, for one, have no problem imagining that, over the course of her career as a madam, she may well have worked with 500 women. Most women don't stay in the sex trade for more than a few months, if that. High turnover at agencies is believable to me, particularly if the agency knowingly accepts women with addictions, as she claims to have done. In fact, she claims that all of the women who worked for her were addicts. I find that very hard to believe, but I'm sure she can't prove it and I know that I can't, either. I do know that the best agencies in Vancouver haven't worked this way in eons and they won't take on just any pretty woman who applies to be on their list. Everyone should question the stories of thousands of women in every large city who are the victims of coercive pimps or who have been forced to work in virtual or actual slavery in the sex trade. It's not that this doesn't happen. It does. But it's not the norm. Almost 90% of sex workers in Canada work indoors. While there are more prostitutes in every city than most people would ever imagine, anyone can see that our streets are not clogged with women plying their trade. I invite you to go out some evening around 9:00 p.m. and drive through the area where your city's street workers are. Count them. Recognize that you won't be able to see all of them--some will be working in a nearby alley or car or a cheap hotel and some work during the daytime but not at night. Others may work much later than 9:00. Some work in the very wee hours of the morning. My own estimate, as someone who spends a lot of time in the Downtown Eastside where I do volunteer work with a poverty agency, is that the number of street workers in this city may be only 3-5%. But more than 500 have gone missing or been found murdered in the last 40 years. Decriminalization will not increase human trafficking or sexual slavery. We can look at the experiences of places like Australia and New Zealand, neither of which report any increase in trafficking for sex work. They do note that there are many migrant workers who go to their countries because they choose to participate in the legal sex trade. Migrants make choices; they are not "trafficked." As for coercing women into the sex trade in these countries, it doesn't work. Men have no need to resort to illegally obtaining something that they can get legally and safely. At the end of the day, though, Tania and her friends want to bring a halt to the sex trade. Tania has made millions of dollars in this industry in the past and she's still expecting to make money from it today by exploiting her stories of the women she claims worked for her; by exploiting the social stigma attached to prostitution that prevents many of us in this industry from being able to speak out and challenge her in person, in public; and by exploiting the naiveté of her readers--by those who buy her book. She will earn royalties of about 10-12% on the sales, by the way. No one here agrees with trafficking women into prostitution. None of the paid companions on this board or anywhere else will say that women should be forced to do this work, against their will. None of us will encourage children to be exploited sexually, either. I daresay that we all want not just good laws against trafficking, coercion and exploitation, but also diligent, vigorous enforcement of those laws. And we want to be able to work safely. Tania found Jesus. She says that's why she "turned her life around." I like Jesus, too. Nothing he's reported to have said or done has anything to do with prostitutes. Prostitution isn't even condemned in the Bible, though it is frowned-upon. Slavery is accepted as a given, however, and slave owners are admonished to treat their slaves well. If Tania's new-found religion has helped her find peace, I'm happy for her. However, I believe that Jesus was all about compassion, and I find that quality to be somewhat limited in Tania's analysis. She has compassion for women who don't want to be in the sex trade, but she has none for those of us who do. I, for one, can't understand why Tania's religious epiphany should mean that I should not be able to make a living, doing what I choose to do, providing a valuable service to those who seek me out and who I'm willing to meet with. <end of long posts for awhile!>

I was thinking along the same lines. Micro mini skirt in gold lame. Short tank top in black and gold that shows cleavage and midriff. Red lipstick and nails. crotchless panties or thong with thigh high fishnets and black stilettos. or something like this:

I agree with fortunateone: Tania was the kind of sex worker who gives most of us a very bad name. And it's not an accident that she has a book out that she wants to promote. I also find it telling that she believes that nearly all of the women she pimped out were drug addicts. I don't believe it, to begin with, but if it's true, it says more about her and what she was willing to do to make money for her own purposes than it does about anything else. I also take offense against her sob-story about being a poor woman who was battling for the custody of her children, all the way to the SCC, but who says she managed, on the way, to become a wealthy entrepreneur and madam, managing the work and skimming off the incomes of up to 500 women. I came into this business because I was battling for the custody of my children, too. Sex work made it possible to pay the bills and look after my kids. If I'd had the skills, the insights and above all the time to become a high-flying madam, well, I sure wouldn't be biting the hands of those who made it possible for me to do what I needed to do to care for my children. That she says that she found Jesus and has repented of her old life also doesn't wash with me. She's still caught up in the sex trade, but from a different angle. And I don't think that Jesus aimed to make a lot of women unemployed and unemployable, either. He was more likely to have dinner with them and a lot of other social outcasts, like tax collectors and political insurgents. Having ended that little rant, I want to point out that there are things we can do. We can attend these meetings and ask questions. We can also write letters to the editors of our local papers, websites, radio stations, etc., and raise a few points. Canada already has laws against human trafficking. What's wrong with them? Why do we need new laws? How many victims of human trafficking is she talking about? Where does she get her data? The simple fact is that there is no straightforward way to count migrant and/or trafficked workers, anywhere. They don't report in to some agency or register with employment services organizations. How does she distinguish between trafficked labour and migrant labour? What concern can she demonstrate for people who are forced to travel to other countries, against their will, to work as farm labourers, construction labourers and domestic labourers? Is she really supporting those who are trying to prevent immigration of all kinds, or who are migrant workers who come to North America to work as undocumented labourers? Prohibitionists frequently see all women migrants as sexually vulnerable above all other considerations (such as needing to earn money to support family members in their countries of origin). They lump women and children together as though women were children with no agency or decision-making authority. They characterize women as incapable of initiating migration or as incapable of making a free choice to do sex work rather than the kinds of menial, underpaid jobs ordinarily available to undocumented, illegal immigrants. Is she branding all women who migrate to Canada as trafficked prostitutes? Some migrants come here and decide to work in the sex trade instead of other kinds of work. Is she opposed to their migration, or just prostitution? Many women resist being "rescued" from prostitution. How does she account for this? If her concern is for women who engage in street prostitution, how does she account for the preponderance of substance addiction and mental illness found among SWs? What steps is she taking to campaign against the illicit drug trade? In what ways does she advocate for everyone's immediate access to mental health services? In what ways is she pressuring local, provincial and federal governments and law enforcement agencies to uphold the laws we already have against trafficking and pimping? How does she hope to increase the number of charges and convictions for these crimes? What plans does she suggest for the women whom she is attempting to put out of work? How will she ensure that they are able to earn a liveable income, live in safe conditions and retain custody of their children?

Samantha, I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you so much for sharing your private story. It is clear you would have meant a great deal to him. I know that these kind of relationships are highly valued by both parties. XO Cub

I agree with Isabella. In the end, it all comes down to time and what works for you. There's never a set chain of events or general fix when it comes to heartache. Just ride that sucker out for however long it takes, it doesn't matter if it's a few weeks or a year, there's no right or wrong amount of time. As well, it's not a bad call to have the other aspects of your life be healthy and positive in this time, which may take some effort. Feeling really crappy about something can have a bad tendency to bleed over into other parts of day to day life.

Sorry, I got the box first, but I'm still waiting for the billion.

Kleenex on sale.......... Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not going to really comment on the initial topic of this thread, but I don't think this is really hijack either (Hands in the air! This is a hijack!.. I dunno, it just popped into my head...) It seems almost everything's already been said by much wiser people than myself. I just wanted to say to Wellie - please don't let this thread or any of its comments intimidate you, and please don't hesitate to continue to post. I originally came here to CERB because I had a bad experience with a provider I had found elsewhere on the web, and in trying to prevent that from happening again I found these really great recommendations and a really fine group of SPs... I joined and stayed on CERB because I found some really good reading posted by a bunch of "sexual deviants" just as "deviant" as myself, and a really great group of genuine, caring, intelligent and open-minded people. I feel a lot more normal now knowing that there are a lot of other really SUPERB individuals just as "deviant" as myself! Hmmm... maybe we're not really so strange? I love to read, I love to learn, and I love to hear the opinions of people much smarter than myself! I also really enjoy sharing my opinion (as un-humble as it may be sometimes... I know, but dammit - I'm just always right! LOL (and I don't care if un-humble isn't word, I like it, and I'm using it)). It makes me feel good to participate in this community, and you are definitely part of the community! Wellie, as far as I know, DATY and DIGITS are not derogatory acronyms - I'm pretty sure they were created to specifically relay a type of service offered by a provider without directly referring to a sexual act. I think these "codes", as Nicolette so correctly referred to them as, are used to avoid some potential legal-type stuff... much like we don't refer to money exchanged between hobbyists and providers as "fees", we call them "dontations". I liked your thread Wellie. Please continue to post so that I can continue to learn. I'm glad you're here on CERB Wellie. To all you other ladies and gents on here reading and enjoying but maybe feeling a little hesitant to post... Please don't hesitate! You're opinions are welcome, there are no stupid questions (well, actually, I can ask some pretty stupid questions, but I digress...) - we'd love to hear what you have to say or ask! Ha ha ha! Check that out! Pretty long post for "not really going to comment" huh? LMAO - ya okay, whatever... antlerman! Where are you buddy?!? We haven't had an antler rant for quite some time! I think we're long overdue! Cheers all! :smile:

-Jamming with like minded musicians and feeding off each other's energy. -Not having to wear pants once i'm in the comfort of my home! -An ice cold beer after a long day at work. -Hanging out at a party with a lady I've had a crush on for years and her texting me the next day at work. -Mosh pits, always. -Having dinner with the family. -My sister's cooking in general. Her husband is one lucky dude!

The best way to over someone is get under someone. ;)

When I was younger, I thought I was in love then another boy would come along and I was in love with him, and so on.. I thought, I thought..and when I finally found love, I knew and forgot(them) Maybe you will never fully get over her and reflect back to her now and then for years to come, all we can do is learn and not give up. "A man reserves his true and deepest love not for the species of woman in whose company he finds himself electrified and enkindled, but for that one in whose company he may feel tenderly drowsy. " George Jean Nathan" Good luck and I think you are doing a fine job getting over her, here on Cerb, there are lovely ladies that will help you forget all your troubles. :)

And that, folks, is what I think CERB is best at. Someone has a genuine question, needs information. Someone supplies the requested information. I love it when a system works! :)

We'll be waiting for you with open arms so take your time!! xx

Thank you for re-posting this, WIT. It's very helpful and worth reading again. I do not understand why the prohibitionists want new laws against procuring and trafficking when we already have good laws on the books. They never say anything about the laws as they are at the moment. One might think that their real beef is with law enforcement bodies and the courts for not exercising due diligence. Unless, of course, their real concern is to try to close down the sex trade simply because they think it's morally wrong for consenting adults, acting in private, to exchange sex for money. Additional Comments: This is where we must disagree. I cannot accept that the assault, murder and disappearance of street workers, or the risks that inside workers also face, is a reasonable compromise in order to avoid making the whole industry illegal. Decriminalizing prostitution will mean that when a sex worker is threatened, assaulted, robbed or worse, she can report it to the police and has every right to expect them to take action just as they would for anyone else. Right now, violent predators and abusers know that most prostitutes either won't report them to the police or will not have any credibility with the police if they try. Moreover, telling the police that one is a prostitute feels like a very risky step to take. But when predators know that the authorities are likely to believe their potential victims, many will find something else to do. With all due respect, SA, we always come back to the issue of outcalls because you take considerable pains to explain how and why you only engage in what you consider to be the legal aspects of the sex trade. I simply wanted to point out that most of the people associated with the women whom you see engage in criminal activity when they book your companions and deliver them to your home.

Thank you Luxie. For the most part I have truly enjoyed and appreciated the positivity and the mutual support that both the men and women continually give to each other. This is an awesome community, and not despite of, but rather because of the variety of opinions and views.

Everyone is allowed to have and express and opinion but would it not be more constructive to listen, learn and educate oneself rather than stick strickly to what you know for a fact? It is very satisfactory to learn as much as possible about a topic you are interested in as you may find that your opinions will change!

There are a few things about the article that make me pause. First, is an article or an Editorial? Because if it's an article, it's awfully bias. There is no balance, but plenty of personal opinion is injected by the writer. And obvisously, not a lot of background research was done into the former madame's past. isn't that suppossed to be journalistic prudence? And secondly, 500 women? That seems a little logistically difficult. Maybe I'm just naieve. The information on this women's past, where she was banned from certain forums, broke the rules and used CL, now defunct, to recruit-is that available anywhere? Because it would make a very tidy letter to any news outlet devoting serious attention to this tour. And I sometimes suspect that there are a number of media types on this board, so . . . How does she account for the women on CERB for instance, who, drug free, intelleigent and classy, choose and enjoy their profession? Did she not encounter any women like this in her 500 employees (assuming that number's valid)? Or were thay all the stereotypical social pariahs feeding their addictions? I will also be intersted to see what sort of media attention Sun Media offers the tour, since those papers make a good chunk of change from selling classified ads to SPs, MAs and other erotic services, as well as advertising to SCs. And Alexandra is right on the money. It is only obsolete social hypocrisy that is focusing on prostitution as the problem behind the abhorrent practice of human trafficking. How often has Fox News, for instance, done stories on the millions of migrant workers in the U.S. working for pennies a day with no protection before being shipped home unceremoniously? How often has the CBC? Aren't these worthy stories of human trafficking? Just some thoughts.

It really depends on more than just clothing, does it not? Isn't there more to being sexy or slutty than just your attire? To me attitude, comfort level, location, etc. all come into play when deciding if someone is "sexy or slutty." If you take a set of identical twins and outfit them the same but put twin A at home in the bedroom with her lover I would consider that to be sexy. However if you put twin B in a club with that same outfit on I would consider that to be slutty. Point being perception, location, attitude, confidence, etc. all come into play before I will brand someone a certain way. Long of the short if it is between two consenting adults behind closed doors slutty can be sexy!

For a wide choice and variety of redheads you should join and check out the RHAG social group. You will not regret it.

No prob. It's somewhat comparable to learning to use a tampon. The first time it's a little akward, but after that it's no big deal. If done correctly, it should not be physically uncomfortable or painful.

One of the best things I've seen written on this site in a while. Couldn't possibly agree with this more. Words are funny things. Sometimes, it bugs me to read guys talk about women's vaginas as 'dripping wet pussies' or the like. Other times, I use the word pussy myself in my ads. As the gentlemen I quoted above said, as long as the person writing it wasn't intending to be disrespectful, I think we should leave it at that. We're all different. I responded to the 'daty vs digits' thread, because I have no issue sharing that information. I can completely understand that not all women feel the same way - but I don't see why we need to chastise the questioner for asking those things. THere have been threads, and responses to threads, that I've read on here that have been completely vulgar and inappropriate, I think to most people who read them. But the one thing I really love about the cerb gentlemen is that i've found they're usually the first ones to call out the offender and tell that person why what they said is wrong. And that makes me happy to be here.

Tania Fiolleau who herself was a prostitute and a madame running a brothel of 500 prostitutes suddenly is now a new born whatever and found the soul in her parts (and her books on sale helps too of course). Very interesting and with the long list of cheatings noted above This is part of a coordinated campaign by the Cons and their supporters to make prostitution outlawed and change the public opinion (currently in favor of legalizing all aspects of prostitution for safety reasons) in their favor. If the sex workers in the profession and those in industry do not counter this campaign (by coming out and disclosing all these lies, and saying that they are not drug addicts and are in this profession by choice not force and ......NOW) they will likely succeed, unfortunately.

It may be worth noting that Tania wrote a book, and no doubt would like sell more copies. Also she ran illegal brothels, illegal agencies, out of apartment/condos, and probably found herself afoul of the law. She also gained a reputation on review boards for getting banned (self promotions/shilling/fake reviews/multiple handles), then creating new handles over and over to do it again. She spent a great deal of money on photos, advertising, location, etc, then in recruiting workers. I have a hard time seeing her as someone totally focused on paying legal fees in custody cases, if she was spending that much on self promotion, that could have been spent elsewhere. She also used face pics, not exactly the M.O. of someone who is desperately seeking custody, imo, as that sort of sp would be far less likely to expose herself that way. She also was revealed to posting w4w ads on casual encounters CL to seek out women that she would then talk into the business. She also managed to hire a 16 or 17 year old girl in her micros. I mean, as a predator and manipulator, she's quite infamous. At the end of the day, I think her role as former sex worker/abolitionist is another master plan of manipulation to take advantage of yet another group of people.

I allow both, but before digits a man should always wash his hands, and be gentle. Hands can be quite rough and forceful during digits, which doesn't feel pleasant. Rough hard sex can be very fun, but it's different with a hand, having a few fingers roughly jammed into you can be painful.

I never before realized until this thread how many women don't seem to enjoy deep digits. I often perform digits with a lady with or without daty (assuming I've seen it as part of her services offered on her website or in an ad), and often building up momentum until it gets to be some pretty intense fingering, not quite the "jackhammer", but I suspect pretty close, and often with more than one digit (usually not more than 2)...and so far haven't had any complaints and the ladies always seemed to be enjoying themselves. If I get a sense she's not then I'll stop. I really hope the reason I've had no complaints is because they were genuinely enjoying themselves and weren't just "putting up with it" or pretending in order to spare my feelings. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....please ladies, and this goes for any ladies reading this who I've seen or any ladies who I may see in the future...please, PLEASE....tell me if I'm doing something you don't enjoy, or tell me if you prefer I do it differently (faster/slower or not so deep/ or deeper)! The last thing I want is to cause someone discomfort....my pride be damned, the best encounter for me is the one where we BOTH get off.

Damn I hate mobile!!!! But my feeling is this......if God or evolution, depending on your outlook, had wanted fingers inside a woman your hands would look like a grouping of little sausages and not fingers with nails......even society has made just about every woman's play toy smooth and gentle that goes in them...... So if you like it shoved down the end of your dick....there is a chance a woman would let you stick it in her..... Opinions expressed above are those of antlerman and do not reflect those of other members or cerb as a whole....... Posted via Mobile Device

I am assuming that men interested in digits would have very clean hands and trimmed nails.

She gets better and better with repetition too.

roamingguy ... I hope when I hit the one-year mark I can write a post as nice as yours I'm very new to this ... until June 23 my only experience with a SP was what wasn't really an SP, more of a street walker (okay it was in a bar) in Edmonton in 1978 ... that was not a good experience (to wander off into the "you know when you are old" thread ... those old enough will remember that 1978 was in the middle of an oil boom and Alberta was hopping and "service" then was more expensive in unadjusted dollars than it is now ... maybe I shouldn't have told the ladies that) June 23 was fantastic and I have a scheduled (longer) repeat coming up soon July 12 in Calgary was nice but not a special as June 23 last night (Calgary again) I got stood up ... oh well CERB is amazing and has been a big help getting over my cautiousness and shyness I look forward to meeting more people ... virtually through CERB and face to face as the opportunities arise cheers and best wishes to all