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Ridiculous or a good idea? What message is this sending to the youth it is targeting? Should we not be teaching the fact that we are not celebrating war but embracing the memory of those who fought for our freedom? Does this white poppy not change the intent of the original red? I, for one, am against this new trend...thoughts?

Do you enjoy the feeling of a woman's fingers inside of you while she's pleasuring you? Have you ever wondered what it would feel like to be taken slowly and sensually by a woman who is wearing a dildo and harness? Anal play and prostate massage are something I enjoy providing to my clients. However, I'm not a professional dominatrix. I enjoy gently and sensually dominating some patrons, under the right circumstances and still offer a full service experience in these encounters. I'm a bisexual switch that enjoys pleasuring and being pleasured, no matter what the activity. Here is an excerpt from one of my recommendations about anal play. She took her time, gradually building from one finger to two, then a butt plug, and finally a dildo, eager but patient, assertive yet gentle, and unbelievably intense, especially as she worked away with that last toy. I honestly can't say who was more aroused, her face was hot and flush, so attentive, and utterly focused on my experience, my pleasure. Although exposed in many ways, I felt safe and in control because Nat is, more than anything, caring. A unique woman. By Blue_Eyes56 Rates*: $520/ninety minutes $600/two hours $720/three hours *these are my rates for sensual and gentle domination which include strap-on and anal play. These rates are different than my GFE rates. For information about my GFE packages, please visit my website. To book an appointment, please send me a PM or e-mail at [email protected] with: - your first and last name - your telephone number - the desired date and time of your appointment, - a reference from another independent SP/MA and finally, - a little bit about yourself... Fondly, Nat xox

I will close my business for the full day on nov 11 as I always have for the past 32 years I have been in business . I do it to remember all who have sacrificed for us and for my grandfather whose shrapnel that emerged from his body years after his wounds suffered in world war 1 I still have in a pill box, and for my father in law who fought in Italy, holland and the black Forrest in Germany who did not speak of his exploits but left diaries in his safety deposit box only found after his death and for my niece wounded in Afghanistan at the age of 22 who is still fighting her demons unexpected but found there ! I wish the color of a poppy was important but the fact is as we age and as a society our respect for those that have sacrificed all for us is slowly being pushed aside by those who have politically decided it isn't important anymore or was immorally wrong to start with. The rights of those who detest are won and protected by those who sacrificed ! I for one will always wear red in respect and shall never forget.

I recently was approached via text by someone who knew NOTHING about my services, they even asked "how does this work?" Now, my ads here on cerb don't leave a whole lot of room for questions unanswered, that's why I write my ad the way I do so that I won't have to spend half my day only answering PMs about myself and my services. Now, having questions isn't what concerns me here, what does concern me is that this person was simply given my telephone # and told "contact her for good BJ".... As hobbyists, I am sure that you all think it's perfectly fine to give out an SP's phone #....but perhaps the gentleman referring his friend should have told him about cerb.ca rather than give out a direct line to a SP (the person texting me had NO IDEA AT ALL how any of this works)... Wondering how other SPs feel about this... Would you like someone to hand out your number to their friends (free advertising I guess) ? I for one use cerb handles as one way to pre-screen my potential clients, how can I when the person in question has no such username, and clearly has no idea what their friend's username is as a reference. I'm interested also to see how the gents feel, do you all think this is acceptable or not?

So I just had the most amazing experience with Manuella Cruz, it truly was one of the best hours I have had over the past few months. I left the appointment feeling happy and relaxed. The only thing that would make it better would being able to talk about the experience with someone else. Yet I don't really have someone who I would be comfortable discussing the hobby with. Anyone else ever have similar feelings?

Part of the stigma is that client are cheaters. The secrety is kinda comfirming it. In reality, there's two stigma there. The affair/cheating and the seeing providers. The first part in general isn't accepted, be it with providers or civilians. The second part, is already starting to destigmatize. (the articles about disabled people who see escorts, most people are okay with it for exemple.) To destigmatize the part about seeing clients, we'd have to prove that the majority do it by choice and that we'd love to see more severe laws against traffickers and abusive pimps. Then it would be a case of the different types of clients. But as long as affair/cheating isn't accepted, some of the clients will always be stigmatized. If the affair/cheating part becomes destigmatized (by convincing the majority of people that it isn't immoral to do), then a big part of the stigma from seeing escort would also leave.

Naw.... Too busy watching the Rob Ford Debacle :)

Hi hon. You're more than welcome to call me at 8076292160 J xoxo

I just unfriended you NJ !! Ha But yes it is true story and I now have a bad case of tennis elbow from too much extended repetitive motion ;)

Whooohoooo ! Congratulations Vitto ! You are classy smart and hands down one of the funniest ladies I know and that really shines through in your posts' so keep them coming! Congrats again :)

I keep the time I spend with the few companions I see extremely discreet. The lovely ladies here value discretion thankfully, as I have provided a few of them with my very personal information, and I'm not sure how I would react if that information was shared without my knowledge or permission. Reciprocatory discretion is expected in my opinion. If someone asked me for any information outside of my cerb recommendations that would raise a very large red flag. Personally I would never hand over more information than I would put in a reco, so directing them there would be all I was willing to do. (for the few I have seen that I haven't written a reco yet, it's coming just want to find the right words)

When I ask where did you see my ad? and I get the "my buddy gave me your info" I ask who is your buddy? 99% of the time they never reply back. While I do appreciate of word of mouth, I don't do secret agent BS. If Ive met your Buddy so to speak and he told you contact me - I don't think he really cares that I know he sent you to me, however just cause I may or may not have met your buddy - the same booking policies apply to any new contacting me - so buddy or not Im still going to screen you.

A DJ for the Bear posted a comment about the white poppy trend yesterday, calling people who wear them "naive" and "hippy dippy." I saw people post things in support of his comment such as "people wearing a white poppy should have their asses kicked." This is honour? My great grandfather served in the Russian military just after 1900. My grandfather served in WW2. My grandmother is dutch, and lived through the occupation of Arnhem, hiding jewish families from the SS. I've had friends who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. I plan on being at the ceremony downtown Monday as a standin for my grandfather, who passed away several years ago. No one symbol owns the rights to remembrance. Remembrance is something we do inside, and represent on the outside. It is represented in how we act and how we treat others. Those soldiers who fought and died did so to give us the freedoms we enjoy, so we could choose for ourselves how we want to dress and act toward each other. True remembrance shouldn't be one day a year. In my opinion, the greatest honour we can show our veterans and soldiers is to be involved in the daily dialogue of our nation's governance and how we are represented in the world. A big part of that is making sure that *if* war needs to be fought, that the cause is just and the sacrifice a worthy one. War should *never* be the solution. And I'll gladly debate with anyone the relative merit of the reasons to sacrifice our soldiers recently compared to the Great Wars of the past. There's nothing wrong with the white poppy. It's just as respectful as the red. I'd wear both, although I haven't seen a white one yet, so I'm wearing the red. People shouldn't start dragging deeper meaning into the colour of the poppy (on either side.) White represents peace as well as remembrance. Sorry for the long, rambling post. Every year I write a blog about Nov 11 and what it means to me. I always end it with a quote from Eisenhower: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in thr final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborors, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron"

I have Veterans in my family and they have shared their experiences and remembrance day and the red poppy holds a sacred place for us. However it was not until I visited France and actually stood in the fields among the crosses that it realy hit me the shear scale of destruction of life that has taken place. Most mear kids. I got choked up over people I never knew. War has become sensationalized over time to a point where we watch the news to see bombs explode and rather that react with horror we just shrug and say oh well. Most people on North America have no idea what happened on those foreign soils and the sacrifices that were made. Those people deserve to be honored for what they gave and that symbol has for years been the red poppy. As each year that horror moves further into the past youth have no concept on the value of life. Doing anything that dilutes the message of the red poppy and remembrance day will surely contribute to their demise some day down the road.

Well said, Renegade. Too often people try to de-personalize a matter. Here in Canada we are indeed very fortunate to live where we do: in a peace-loving, caring, nurturing, and safe society. The red poppy is for remembrance of the sacrifices made by not only Canadians but others from around the world. Thank you, thank you, to all those before us who paid the ultimate price. As well, we remember those maimed and injured and still living among us as a reminder of the ravages of wars, not only past but present. We do not celebrate war by the wearing od the red poppy. We pay respect to those fallen and the survivors. Thank you, merci beaucoup.

Well the originators of the white poppy HAVE misrepresented / changed the true meaning of the red poppy, which is remembering, thanking and honoring those who have served our country, and not about 'celebrating war' as they say. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/11/05/matt-gurney-protestors-need-to-learn-history-the-poppy-is-already-a-symbol-of-peace/ So I am definitely offended by their hijacking both the day and the symbol.

They should be ashamed of themselves doing it during the Remembrance Day time period imo. It's a lack of respect as you're not celebrating war but remembering those that fought for your freedom to do do such a thing.

I find younger clients intimidate me more. I've always related better to people older than myself, even outside the business, so I feel more comfortable with the mature clients. That said maturity is not always commensurate with age. I think on some level the clients who are my age or younger make me feel like I'm back in high school and have to live up to false social standards of popularity. The mature clients value my intellect and kindness as well as my looks. That said, the younger clients I have encountered have all been incredibly sweet; the things I said above reflect only on me and comment on my own insecurities rather than the demeanour of my customers. In short, I initially felt insecure around clients under 30, but have learned that there was nothing to be afraid of.

I have had the pleasure to meet Clarissa on a couple of occasions and would highly recommend her. From the moment I walked into the room with her I felt welcomed and appreciated. Clarissa is a petite sexy lady with an amazing body and a desire to ensure that you enjoy every minute in her presence. Clarissa is engaging and funny and treats you like you are the only man in the world. It is very obvious that she know what she is doing and enjoys her time with you. I guarantee you that once you have met her you will want to see her again.

I got home about an hour ago and the clock on the microwave was flashing. The electricity obviously had been out earlier. I don't feel like cooking. I call the restaurant down the street and order a pizza. I go pick up my kids from daycare, go to the restaurant, pick up the pizza, come home and set them up at the kitchen counter with a few slices of 'za. I have some too. There's nothing better than eating pizza. Except for mind-blowing sex. When I can have both in one day, it's a really good day. Guess what? It is a really good day. Hey aren't I the guy who claimed to have retired from the lifestyle in September. Yes, one and the same. Did I have sex with a lay person (see what I did there?). Nope. She is an escort. Aren't I supposed to be retired? What is this 60 minutes? Who are you, Mike Wallace? What's with the interrogation? I met her at her hotel at 3. I left work early, advantages of being the boss. I brought a few bottles of some mixed vodka/Kahlua based drink. And some chocolate. I showered while she sat on the bed sipping her drink. I then joined her on the bed. We kissed. We talked. We laughed a bit (a bit too much I might add, what the hell is in these drinks?). She proceeded to giving me great oral sex and I returned the favor afterwards. I may have inadvertently tickled her as she let out a surprised gasp but my ego tells me she was just completely taken by my technique. I reposition myself so that my mouth is lightly pressed against hers. Some small kisses ensue. I lick her lip a little and then my tongue probes her mouth and finds her tongue. They get acquainted. Although they've met before. The I say something stupid and we're both laughing hysterically for a few minutes. I say, "let's get this thing back on the rails." and she tells me I am no longer allowed to speak for the rest of the session. A rule I break over and over later on. I resume kissing her and whispering sweet nothings and I ask her what she likes best. She whispers that she likes me inside her best. That gets a reaction. I continue to explore her body, neck and lips with my mouth getting very hard in the process. She gets a condom. Now here I have to help her put it on as she tries to put it on backwards. My ego tells me she is just confused because I have aroused her. Once the condom is on, I enter her in missionary position. She whispers, "you feel good." I whisper back, "Look who's talking." With most girls, cowgirl is my favorite position. With her it's missionary. I put my forehead on hers so that the bridge of my nose is along the bridge of hers. In this position, each of us needs to lunge a bit to kiss the other. She lunges first. I place my open mouth on hers and lightly keep my lips on hers. I don't kiss her. At the same time, I push myself slowly in and pull myself slowly out of her. Occasionally we kiss each other hungrily as I continue the slow pace. She comes violently. Moments later she comes again. I don't need ego to tell me this is genuine. She comes a third time and bangs her head into mine and she writhes beneath me, trying to push my head out of the way. All the time, I am breaking the no talking rule by whispering, "you're so good. I want you to come again." among other stuff that might be even too dirty to write here. She grabs a pillow, puts it over her mouth and screams again. Then she tells me to fuck her faster. Who am I to deny this vision? At this point, I enter a different state of consciousness. I can only feel her. I've forgotten my real name and MikeM does not even exist. The maid could have walked in and I wouldn't have noticed. Another scream of ecstasy awakes me from my nirvana that I have only experienced about a dozen times, three times already with this girl and never before with another escort. We come together. I'm spent. I roll over to her right side and pull her close to me so I can kiss her again. We kiss for awhile, then we get up as my hour is almost up. We drink our drinks and I get dressed. The whole time conversing like old friends, laughing, joking. I'm lightheaded from the sex. My legs are shaking. As I go to leave, I pull her to me, kiss her and say, "Is it OK that I continue to see you even though I've retired from the lifestyle?" She says, "MikeM, I'll make it so that you never retire." I say, "Cute0aza0button, I'm holding you to that." As I leave I remark to myself that from 3 to 4 (4:10 actually) I was the luckiest guy in the world. But as I leave the room, I am only the second luckiest. The luckiest guy is the guy who is on his way for, I assume, his 4:30 appointment with this angel. Does this bother me? No, these are the rules we play by. You are the best.

Hello darlings!!! Have you all got big plans for the weekend? Well no matter what you're up to there's always time for a little fun ;) Cum get naughty in the eastend with me!! Until 3pm today, Dont miss out! xox Call 6135236199 to book or PM me If this weekend doesnt work, send me a PM for my availabilities next week :) xoxox Friday until 3pm Saturday 11-6 Sunday 9-3

HI EVERYONE ! TODAY IM WORKING 10-11 ! I AM A M/A THAT LOVES TO ENTERTAIN. IN MY WORLD YOU ARE ALL VIP'S..LUCKY YOU! ME IN THE BUFF = YOU LEAVING HAPPY.. I AM PETITE (5FT' - 30DD - 100ish lbs) BUT MY PRESENSE AND PERSONALITY ARE LARGER THAN LIFE. MY SCHEDULE WEDNESDAY'S 3:30-11 THURSDAY'S 3:30-11 FRIDAY'S 10-11 SUNDAY'S 10 -9 ENTERTAINMENT IN A RELAXED ENVIRONMENT IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST VISIT BE SURE TO CHECK OUT... RECO'S http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthr...?ltr=R&t=82591 FAQ: (*WORK IN PROGRESS) Q:WHAT EXTRAS DO YOU PROVIDE? A:I AM HERE ONLY TO GIVE YOU A HAND HOWEVER, I CAN OFFER YOU A NURU GEL MASSAGE AS AN ADDED BONUS! *MORE TO COME.. 613-274-7073 TO BOOK OR PRIVATE MESSAGE ME DELIGHTFULY YOURS, ROBYN XOXO

Just get rid of it ... it plays no important function in our democratic system.

Stare into my deep ocean dazzling blue eyes and get completely sucked into a state of bliss as I place you thoroughly at ease with my sensual massage begin and erotic bodyslides. Easy, everlasting connections are made with away as I am very playful and bubbly! Oh what fun we shall have! Let the yumminess begin. http://www.angelstouchmassage.ca/sit...rlies-profile/ Marlie XoXo Here Until 4pm 613-820-8887

Wanna get freaky with me today? It's Friday and I'm ready to celebrate the weekend with you by spicing up your night with some freakalicious action ;) I am a tall red head with a model type body that will leave you speechless without a doubt. Sexy longs legs and stunning blue eyes that will leave you breathless. A mind blowing experience that will have you coming back for more time and time again. My services include: full body massage, body slides, reverse massages, showers for 2, and I am very open to couples sessions and catering to the ladies :wink: Come see me today and get your mind blown at Paradise Spa located in the West End. I'll be available today from 3:30pm until 11pm Available Sunday from 3:30pm until 9pm Call to book some sexy time with me at 613-820-8887

I was raised to believe the red poppies were all about peace. "Lest we forget" is about remembering and honouring sacrifice, and ensuring it wasn't in vain. Part and parcel of that is/must be a message of peace for the future.

Hey boys .. my name is Selma.:boobies: If you're in the mood for a good exotic massage then you should definitely come meet me at the Paradise Spa and Tanning salon in Ottawa, 1902 Rochester Road. This is my schedule for this week: Thursday from 2:30 to 11 pm Saturday from 10 to 6 pm Sunday from 10 to 4 pm I'm looking forward in having a really good time :P muah!!

some places have cams in the entry to be sure all is ok, but if in the room this is troubling

I never give out ANY personal information about a lady that I have seen (other than what was in stated in a recommendation for that lady), especially her address/hotel or contact number. When I book it is either through an email,or pm here on Cerb then we would exchange contact numbers. I will follow up with email/pm to confirm to her "it is I " that way there is no confusion (I guess there is many Pete's as there is John's :) ) Lastly, I always like to ensure that my number is also not shared with others, discretion is paramount for all parties involved. .....If a gent asks me in a pm, I will tell him to read the lady's ad to get that personal info.

It can be a dangerous situation to get into. I heard a rumor that Lee took one before a meeting with a lady but he got confused in the date and he was stuck having to masturbate to get rid of his erection.:handjob: PS. You will notice I did not mention the second name of the member to protect his anonymity.

I am with Emily J on this one... I consider myself to be in the mature MA category age wise.. being in my early 30s... As long as the request is made respectfully age does not matter I have met wonderful gentlemen, some younger, some in my same age group some older and some much older... but in the opposite way I have met others not so nice.. on all group ages... I also have found that contrary to what many would think.. younger guys are very timid and do not try to cross boundaries as much as some of the more experienced gentlemen have... At the end age is no criteria to judge a clients behaviour.. One thing I may do if he looks to young is ask for ID... just to be sure!

For me I prefer a more Mature Sp. Only because I get a guilty feeling with an 18 year old. While I like the idea of a younger SP for me its a matter of comfort. For no other reason. I am going to be pushing 50 soon and I feel creepy with anyone less than say 35 years old. Not saying I would not be with an SP younger but I am more comfortable with someone closer to my age. I see only 1 SP and she makes me feel younger if that counts :)

Miss Lane and I have seen each other twice. I was greeted at the door with the most passionate eyes. We did not speak. Our hearts done the talking. Savannah is very intelligent and is a very well rounded woman. I can see a bright future for our friendship. Thank you Savannah, Irish Prince

Body slides are my absolute favourite I truly love getting oiled up and rubbing my silky smooth body all over a man, massaging his whole body with my entire body, I find its both stimulating for myself as we'll as my client Every girl that offers body slides will have differ restrictions, some (including myself) will allow you to touch them all over and then others will not...different girls different restrictions You can always pm different MA's to see what restrictions they offer and then finding the MA that best suits you As for price, that can vary as well depending on the amount of time you would like to book for, and in room fees can vary with different girls, again it's best to talk with different MA's to finalize all the specifics!!! Hope this helped a little Kisses and Stay Sexy xxo

I still love turkey and look forward to it every time I cook it. This past Thanksgiving we had a turduckin. I will NEVER have this again. It was horrible. How about having lobster for xmas?

Really, that question is equally applicable to companions (SPs/MA) and Clients if you think about it. Etiquette as noted by Nathalie is to not acknowledge a lady or gentleman if you run into her/him outside of an encounter. Just walk by each other and pretend you don't know one another. Ladies shouldn't worry about clients outing them. And guys shouldn't worry about ladies outing them either We all respect (or should respect) that we all have lives outside this lifestyle and it should be respected RG

My view on this has evolved over my time as an SP. I don't have any age restrictions at all and I do not ask for your age when someone requests an appointment with me. In fact, I welcome men of all ages to respectfully contact me if they are interested in what I have to offer them. I ignore any and all requests that are below my standards, regardless of age. I've found less-than-desirable men of all ages, and while maybe there are a few more young guys who haven't learned how to talk to a woman yet, I wouldn't personally ban them all because of a few bad apples. Of course, to each their own though, and for some it's just a comfort thing, and everyones own preferences are to be respected. I've seen many young university students, as young as 19 years old. I've had a great time with many of them, and still see some of them regularly. If they can compose a nice introduction, give me all the info I need and they seem respectful and friendly, I have no issues with age at all. It actually turns me on a bit when younger dudes are looking for an experienced lady a few years their senior rather than a girl their own age. That alone shows me some kind of maturity. I also think that for young guys, especially university students, or those starting out in their career, if they have the means, seeing an SP is a great option. Considering the alternatives... like bars, online dating, one-night-stands with possible expectations, banging a classmate who you then have to see everyday, etc, this is a much better route for young guys who just want some temporary honest fun. :)

Brad, there's how things should be and there's how things are. We all want progress, and a wise person knows that pressure for progress must be applied prudently, or it can result in a backlash. I thought we were living in a country where individual rights were balanced very well against community interests. I have been living and working in Canada since 1982, and have had almost no problems resulting from unjust laws or overzealous enforcement. Quite the opposite! So why rail and stomp our feet if there isn't a problem? I doubt there's much sympathy these days for the plight of internet advertising prostitutes and their customers in Canada. We're not exactly hard done by. Discretion is important, of course, but I think a huge part of discretion is knowing what the stigma looks like and looking like anything but. This is why I get so annoyed with these guys who try to "be discreet" by parking a couple blocks away and sneaking over on foot. That plays right into the stigma, and while it might be done with the intention of being discreet, it is actually indiscreet. It may be counterintuitive to some, but parking right out front and striding up and knocking on the door like you have every business being here is actually the most discreet thing to do, and attracts the least attention and curiosity. We can use the stigma to our advantage by letting people focus on it instead of on us. It protects our privacy. The only thing that I find sad is when I see an SP or a customer embracing the stigma. I have had customers ask me how I deal with dirty or rude or rough customers. Don't they see that I don't deal with people like that at all? Do they think they're the only decent guy I know? I don't encounter many of such people, but I have heard that some customers assume that all SPs are on drugs (I have known very few who use at all, much less more than on an odd occasion) or are all single mothers on welfare. I've heard SPs over the years make remarks to suggest that they think customers have to pay because they couldn't get laid otherwise. We don't see that much of those attitudes here on CERB, and when we do see it, it's usually nipped in the bud pretty quickly. That's the best type of progress I see!

I have to say Lola ay CMJ is who you are looking for but please treat her right she is soooooo amazing. Posted via Mobile Device

No lol I already have a "vat of febreeze" available but I don't plan on using it all in one day lol What I am saying is that if I offer this during the day, I will not see another gentleman on that day ;)

I have been a provider for 16 years I have never put down a fellow provider. I don't understand why they feel a need to say others in my town who do this are junkies or have stds. How do they know are they using with them? Are they there when they get test results back? Why do that we are all providing a service that is a need for.. I think that by putting others down it ruins your business cause what person would want to be with someone who is mean and not discrete if they can talk about others. So ladies if you insult others stop it its not right we should all be on each others side work as a team it will only Increase your business

Fortunately these bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch. It is really good to know the guys dislike the trash talkers. Having been thru a trash talk before, it gives me a warm feeling that the talker is the one least loveable and to another extent, the least credible. I don't believe in ignoring the trash talkers, I'm with mm on that one, it does need to be dealt with. How you deal with it, whether it is reports to admin, producing proof, going to LE to report the person, having them investigated by a team of peers for the purpose of conflict resolution, whatever works. At the end of the day, that same person will continue to deny and trash talk, but the truth is now out there and you've done your part, and that's about all you can do. Eventually as they say, karma bites them in the ass, and they are left with nowhere to talk trash to anyone lol. *and yes, this is posted for my stalker's eyes to realize what the real eyes are seeing

And it's even worse when former trusted mates betray you; 'cause then it's re: allies! ;)

100% honesty. Smack talk by an SP about another SP (whether true or not) is a sure fire way to turn me off and make me walk the other way. Talking smack is drama and drama is NOT sexy! Period! FYI...Us clients don't live in a rose coloured bubble, we talk (many times privately not on public boards) a lot more than some SP's realize and know what's going on with the SP's in our respective areas. Running your mouth will kill your business. Don't do it. Sorry, Chuck is grumpy and playtime scheduling has been awful lately. I'm in withdrawal:(

I am glad you had a good time with her. I saw her, and according to the rules of the board I can't say anything further.