Phaedrus

And that's the kind of free association we're looking for! You can stretch it as far as you like, as long as you tell us how you got there :) And as a bonus, you don't *have* to give us a band beginning with Y, unless you particularly want to... On the subject of weather... Live - Lightning Crashes

Well, you haven't obviously missed the point - at least, I can see the link :) The Rumble in the Jungle was, of course, a famous sporting event. So... Simon and Garfunkel - The Boxer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKjEHfHINQ

...because, obviously, we really need another excuse to post random songs :) So, here's the idea: the song you post has to be related in some way to the previous one. Interpret that as broadly as you like; as long as the previous song somehow made you think of the one you post in reply, that's fine. But - and there's always a "but" - you have to tell us why the previous song makes you think of the one you posted, especially if it's not obvious. There has to be a link of some kind, even if it's only in your own head. And, as with the current song thread, post a link to a vid/recording of what you choose. Since I'm kicking this off, it falls to me to decide where to start, and so I suppose I'd better start at the beginning (for me, at least): the first song on the first album I ever purchased. Guns n' Roses - Welcome To The Jungle

Actually... I think I've just (horrible audio, alas). I trust you'll approve of the show he chose to crowd-surf at :)

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/09/19/susie_bright Those who come of age online tend to think they know everything there is to know about pornography. I should know, I'm one of them -- or I was until getting a smutty education from author Susie Bright. For my generation, and much more so younger ones, the archetypical discovery of a stash of Playboys has been replaced by stumbling across Dad's X-rated Web browser history. These days, the typical pubescent search for sexual information amounts to opening Pandora's box of online porn. As Rule 34 of the Internet states, "If it exists, there is porn of it." Words like "gonzo" and "bukkake" can easily enter teenagers' vocabulary before they're even exposed to sterile sex-ed jargon. So, when I went to see Bright, a respected sex writer and former Salon columnist, revive her presentation "How to Read a Dirty Movie" for the first time in over two decades this past weekend in San Francisco, I expected to be entertained by her whip-smart commentary -- but not to experience anything particularly new. Those of us who have been culturally disparaged as being part of the "pornified" generation are entitled to claim some triple-X expertise, right? But I was humbled to find that the decades-old porn clips that she played during her lecture were personally challenging -- but not in the way that porn today confronts the viewer. This wasn't the visual assault of sexual freak-show theatrics (i.e., "One chick, ten dicks!") that currently rules the Web. Instead, they were shocking largely because they were part of an actual story, a feature-length film. In one clip, a male character strangles a hit woman disguised as a prostitute during sex -- and, in context, it's actually an artful scene, believe it or not. Then there was the brutal honesty of another clip in which a real-life recovering drug user is interviewed before masturbating on camera for money. This was sex as a multilayered act -- one that's sometimes sad and tragic, sometimes exuberant and life-affirming, and certainly not always sexy. Inspired by her smutty lecture, I asked Bright, author of "Big Sex, Little Death," to talk at greater length by email about the "golden age" of porn and her days as the first independent erotic movie critic. What can we learn from pre-Internet porn? Erotic movies "before" the Internet were movies, full-length features, often shot as films and shown theatrically before they were converted to VHS, and then DVD. They had a Big Life. Some of you film buffs may know that legends like "Midnight Cowboy" and "Last Tango in Paris" were originally X-rated. It was all part of the independent film movement of the '60s which broke away from major Hollywood studios and said, "Enough with the squares and the rules! We're going to do our own thing and find our own audience." Roger Corman, Russ Meyer, Radley Metzger, Gary Graver, Roger Watkins -- they were the sexy side of the same movement that debuted Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns or the beginning of the sci-fi scene on-screen, as clumsy as it was. The production values weren't always as high as MGM's, but the original ideas and approaches to photography and "real life" were. Characters who'd never been seen on-screen before made their debut -- it was the end of Tab Hunter and Sandra Dee, the Ozzie and Harriet ideals. These were characters who had sex, all kinds of sex. When home video became available, there was another new generation of artists who had rebellious ideas, most notably, filmmaking women who'd been shut out of the old boy's network. Feminist erotica is impossible to imagine without video and Mac technology. The heyday of erotic film and video were those moments where "revolution" was in the air, before commodification and conformity took over every single little detail. Those are the kind of erotic movies I treasure and collect! It's incredible to think that people once had to go to an adult theater to see a porno. Has the current privacy of porn viewing changed the content itself? That's funny, I wonder if people will one day say that about PG and R-rated features: "Wow, people used to see that in a theater?" I felt very private, in my own little world, at the Pussycat theater when I'd review the latest X-rated 35mm spectacular. It wasn't like other audience members "butted in." Except, one place I remember that was open 24 hours would sometimes have this drunk vet guy who would scream "Kill Charley!" at really random moments. The main difference was I had to get out of my pajamas and drive down to the theater to see my pictures! Why aren't there more high-quality, plot-heavy movies that happen to have explicit sex scenes? Well, there are, actually, and they're screaming for attention. These days, the best ones are unrated, independent from Porn Valley and Hollywood. They might be a "foreign film," or they might come out of an art school. It might be an interesting experiment a sex worker is running with a webcam. But you have to seek them out, they're not in heavy rotation with multimillion-dollar ad budgets! When you ask that question, you're asking either, "Why doesn't Hollywood do sex?" -- or, "Why doesn't Porn Valley do high production values?" Hollywood has refused to deal with sex, authentically, since the earliest days of the Hays Office crackdowns. Prison and political pressure scared them off good. Porn Valley operates on a budget and system that's very conservative, turning out their soup cans, making movies in hours or a couple of days. They've accepted their ghetto-not-really-art-just-porn status. It's typical of America that way, that we crippled our film industry with a double standard. Has porn gotten better or worse? That's like asking, "Have movies gotten better or worse?" "Have books gotten better or worse?" Sex in our storytelling lives is a sign of the times. I think the concentration of all the money in this country into very few hands has been bad for art and bad for sex and bad for erotica. The trend against democracy is always bad for sexual speech and creative independence. You mentioned in your presentation that female viewers were eventually made to feel more comfortable about watching smut -- how did that happen? There were about a dozen women in the '80s who started making their own movies, magazines, images, and we fought against all the naysayers. Then, to everyone's shock, the women's erotica movement made significant sales. Into the middle of that mix, came along a filmmaker named Andrew Blake, who did a series of very high-tone, music-video-style X-rated videos. There was no narrative; they were all similar to a very long commercial for luxury goods -- with sex in them. It was just Blake's thing; he had no particular interest in women viewers. But these movies were wildly popular with women. For all the ranting and raving everyone had made about wanting "a good story," that turned out to be untrue. What novice female viewers wanted, without being able to say it, was class-conscious reassurance that one could be a nice, well-dressed, well-kept woman, and indulge in "erotica" while maintaining your dignity and marriageability. Everyone looked like a millionaire in Blake's movies, and that turned out to be the ticket. Not story, not orgasm, but reassurance that you weren't a terrible worthless slut to be looking at such things. I found that discovery enlightening but depressing. I wish women wanted to look at sex stories and movies because of their unapologetic sexual self-interest. Luckily, once many women got through the Andrew Blake gateway, they loosened up and started enjoying other things that were more personal to them. One theme I saw in the clips you presented that I don't see in today's porn is the link between sex and death. Why is that? It's not just death, it's any drama, any tragedy, religion, loss, grief, despair, betrayal, race, class, gender issues ... you name it, it's been excised. It's an unnatural situation, because as that famous rabbi once said, "All pleasures contain an element of sadness." The Great Stupidification trudges onward in the film business, and it's really affected porn. The various political vendettas against sex, like the Meese Commission, ruined a great number of films and potential. The artists who are doing the most interesting material now are either underground, the Web counterculture, or out of the country. Sorry to sound so critical, but anyone who's looked at the crap at this weekend's multiplex theater cannot be so surprised to find that the so-called adult movies are just as tepid and commodified. If we were really grown-up, we'd stop calling them "Adult." -- with a label like that, no wonder no one feels inspired. There's a lot about life and sex that's not for kindergartners, and I'd like to see movies about those themes. They should just be called "movies," and judged on their own merits. The only "adult biz" features that are thriving right now are ones about celebrity ding-dongs gone bad. It's a rubbernecking show. The rest of mainstream porn is focused on making little scenes, material that can be consumed in a few minutes, much like the old peep show formulas. The Web streaming business is about tidbits. What will we be saying about today's porn in 40 years? Well, that's what I'm writing about now. I have two new e-books coming out on the cinematic history and future of erotic cinema, and I'm going to get to the bottom of it! One's called "The Erotic Screen: From Golden Hardcore to Glittering Dykecore," and the second volume is "The Erotic Screen: How to Read a Dirty Movie." I think I'll open them with my most optimistic quote from H.P. Lovecraft: "Stupendous and unheard-of splendors await me -- and I shall seek them soon!"

(But not qwerty's last post, perhaps...)

Why do we have to have Vogon poetry here? Why? DEAR GOD, WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO DESERVE THIS???

I think... true. I'm totally jealous of mrrnice2, 'cos he's going to Portugal and Spain!

Congratulations, Castle! And here is a cake to celebrate:

Congrats, Carrie!

Awesomeness:

If it's hands-on, do you need help with the training? :)

So should we launch another thread to congratulate this one on reaching 1000 posts? Can this thread have a crown?

RG, is this you?

Nick Drake - Day is Done

Nasal spray? Stuff that. Go out for a really good curry - not only does it annihilate anything in your sinuses, but you can have a good time with your friends too :) And I have no idea if blue cheese helps at all, but I eat it anyway...

I haven't heard that for years! Skid Row - Sweet Little Sister

Academic freedom does not include the freedom to completely disregard scientific method, or to piss in the Fountain of Truth the way Farley does. Unfortunately flakes who ignore reality to try and prove a politically-motivated point drag everyone down with them and bring science as a whole into disrepute, and it is very much in the interests of professional associations to prevent this as far as possible. I'm fine with people doing this if they're honest and claim to be no more than a politician or a lobbyist or a campaigner; they have no right to claim any sort of scientific mantle or the authority that conveys, and the scientific community absolutely needs to ensure this does not happen.

Is the porn industry really that bad on STIs? Given how much BB sex goes on, I'm always amazed by how few scares there are, and how well the industry as a whole seems to do in shutting down until the outbreak has been completely contained. The real issue seems to be that the various *tube sites are putting up so much pirated and amateur content that there's really no need for your average consumer to pay for porn any more, and so there's no $$ for the performers. It sounds like it's not so much that they're making the same amount for covered sex as an SP, but that they're making rather more... which would make the choice even less hard :) I'm wondering if we may end up in a situation where working in porn becomes a marketing strategy for SPs, rather than a career in itself...

So, first up, I have to agree with the main premise of this thread; adding a comment just to say thanks to the reco thread doesn't add much to it, and I think rep points and PMs, as already suggested, are entirely adequate for this purpose. However... Nicki, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on what should be in recos... I disagree with this as a requirement. It may be useful, within some limits (more on this below) but it also has drawbacks... A couple of things here. Firstly, we guys have very different takes on what we want to do with a reco, and how much effort to put into it, and what to talk about. Some folks write epic tales of their sexcapades and describe everything in great detail and glorious technicolor, and clearly have fun doing so and re-living the encounter. Others just aren't comfortable with posting this sort of thing - personally, while I'm happy to read about the great time someone else had, I simply don't wish to give details of anything that happened with the ladies I've met once the clothes came off. But that's just me, and I'm quite happy that other people have different ideas on this. As for bias... yes, you'll always get that. I'll unashamedly admit that there are some ladies that I've enjoyed spending time with more than others. I've written recos for ladies that I'll definitely go and see again, come hell or high water. I've also written recos for ladies that I probably won't see again, usually because we just didn't connect that well, and I'm likely go back to someone that I connected with better, or perhaps go on and make new and exciting discoveries elsewhere (for which there's never enough time). This doesn't mean that someone I didn't connect with doesn't deserve a reco, or that other people shouldn't go and see her, because the fact that I didn't quite click with someone doesn't mean she won't become the next guy's ATF, and it'd be a shame if he never went to see her because she didn't have enough recos. It should also be noted that when someone's had a really fantastic time this can quite often come out in the way the reco is written, and this sort of feeling and enthusiasm level can be just as useful as anything that's actually written. The problem I have here is that you seem to be equating 'seamless and equal' with 'better'. I disagree on this point, as you can probably tell :) This is true, but this sort of thing really comes down to how much effort guys are prepared to put into researching someone we haven't seen before. If we're just going to look at the length of the reco thread, as opposed to actually reading it... well, fine, but we're probably missing out on some gems. However, this is our loss. Yes we do, and it's still useful. It tells me that someone else went to see the lady in question, and that he had a good time. It all adds up on the positive side of things. And the point is not that anyone could write that - the point is that someone did. That alone seems to be more than most guys bother with, and I'm not comfortable with the idea of being less than welcoming to guys who may not have the time or inclination to write a great deal. I'd far rather have a very quick "I saw X, and it was great" than nothing at all. It should probably be noted also that this may be a function of what previous recos for a lady are like. People probably don't want to make it look like their reco is a virtual cut-and-paste of someone else's, and it's especially hard to add something new and different to a lady's reco thread if she's got a lot of recos already, or if someone has already written a small novel about her (those can be a really tough act to follow), or if you're in the not-discussing-the-gory-details camp. And here we have a good reason for a template. Yes, if a template gives new or occasional posters a prod in the right direction and makes writing a reco easier for them and thus results in more recos, we all benefit and that would be a thoroughly good thing. But it'd be a great loss if the template became mandatory and limited those who wish to offer more, or inhibited those who didn't wish to fill out all of it.

And even better, he's just been awarded the Ig Nobel Peace Prize for this. I also like this year's Chemistry Prize. I've said it before, and I'll doubtless say it again: WTF, Japan? Chemistry Prize: A team led from Shiga University, Japan, that determined the ideal density of airborne wasabi to awaken sleeping people in case of a fire or other emergency, and for applying this knowledge to invent the wasabi alarm. Patent pending.