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This whole area should NEVER be assumed is ok. It would be like having someone stick their finger in your eye, then asking later if that is ok, and/or ignoring the fact that you tell them it is not ok and just keep on doing it. As far as part of GFE at all, I would say no. It might be something a greek provider is open to. I would put it as part of a PSE tho, for those who offer it. Like anything, this is something you should be asking about before you start poking your fingers or tongue into anything at all lol. Also, be extremely careful of trying to combine DATO with DATY. Transferring bacteria from anal to pussy can be extremely harmful, in terms of infections. I would say the same thing about combining DATO with kissing. Just be aware of what you are doing and try to take some precautions; also to be aware of the "ick" factor. I am not too sure of how many people, m or f,, who would welcome the idea of kissing someone who has been licking their ass. A little courtesy and common sense goes a long way. There are far too many unpleasant byproducts of DATO, like exposure to parasites and hepatitis, that make it a really bad idea. But along with that is the fact that many people simply do not want anyone poking around down there, find the sensation unpleasant, and if you are expecting someone to enjoy what you are doing, you should know that going in to always ask first before you do anything whatsoever. And I suggest that if you are a fan of giving and receiving DATO, the very first thing you should get are the hepatitis shots. This will ensure, at least for some part, your continued good health. Oh, and in case anyone was confused by my post, if anyone ever tries to do this with me (consider, I tell you up front it is a no go zone) I will hurt you lol. Be prepared for a very strong and negative reaction from anyone you try this on without asking first.

I have noticed a recent comment or two referring to hobbying as paying for sex. I beg to differ and this is my personal view. To me hobbying is NOT paying for sex and I do not get upset by it at all and these are my reasons: I invite a lady to my home as a guest(or she invites us to hers for those who do incalls) and I pay for lady's time and companionship only. By all means she is a guest in my house (or we are a guests in hers, if incalls) and is treated like one (and many like myself do their best to ensure they feel like guests). What happens after is between two consenting adults. They do not have to do what they wish not to. And they can leave if they wish too. In many cases when I invite nude dancers there is no FS. In most cases the visiting lady has equally good time (I can tell by her wet ......and hot body and flushed face lol) and thank us for the great time she has had. It is a date (RendezVous) not pay for sex. The only difference is that I use cerb (or internet) to find my date instead of going to a dance bar or night club and I donate for her time and kindness with material value in an envelop rather than dinner or jewelry or ring, etc. The reason for hobbying in my case is the "Variety" factor. I love variety. It is possible to do this in certain cities like Montreal (where I lived for 6 years before moving to Ottawa) by going to a night club or dance bar or at the university social events and every Saturday night (with a good chance) to come out with a different lady. I used to do this myself for 6 years (besides as student I didn"t have money to hobby). This is not possible in a relatively small city like Ottawa. Therefore if I want to do what I enjoy most (playing the "variety" game), then I have to hobby (or go back to Montreal where likely I won't have a job). I consider visiting ladies as guests and I hope that they are equally feel like being a guest and having a real good time. How many of you would agree that we should enjoy our time and be happy and how many would disagree that in fact hobbying is indeed paying for sex or we should be upset about it? Am I too optimistic living in a fictitious imaginary world of my own, or at least some of you would share my view?. Views from lady providers are specially welcomed. I do hope that this post does not offend anyone, otherwise I would have to request the mod for its removal. PS - This post is not in any way with reference to any individual or individuals and only expresses my personal views on hobbying.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being an optimist.. but why not also be a realist? There is nothing wrong with paying for sex.. in fact I embrace and rely on that concept to pay my rent! I'm happy to be a provider of such service and proud of the service and happiness I bring. Why pretend a rose is a tulip? I love both.

I think that if your price is listed (especially when it says you do not give change) it is the gentleman's responsibility to come with the correct amount of cash. Disussing money in any way is a turn-off and can alter the mood of a session. Why do you think we ladies ask for the money to be discreetly placed in an unsealed envelope and set on the dresser/table/counter? 'Cause we don't wanna talk about money! Posted via Mobile Device

Still thinking this one out... but here is what is on my mind right now ...SA we are paying for sex, as far as know I continue to hand out envelopes with a tidy sum of money, to thank the great lady for her intimacy and companionship for maybe an hour or 2 hours. Hell the odd time I might throw an additional lady in on the fun, and we then might be having a party but not really, because I like to get to the sex part real quick, but take my time too :) Because I love my sex, I love being with beautiful women, and to express my gratitude there is money involved.That is just the hobby, period. Lately I have settled into a "groove" where the fun is in a relationship where there is trust,sensuality,friendship and quality great times, and we are both are sharing the benefits. Its all good in my books however anyone wants to look at it.

Secret Admirer.. I don't know how long you've been hobbying but in my 22 years of escorting all my clients have expected sex. Even with the dancers you have as guests in your house.. you claim to be hugging and kissing and cuddling.. which in my book is sexual contact. If I were only a guest or on a first date with someone I'd expect dinner our some other social outing and no sexual contact. If you want to call it something else by all means go ahead. But sexual contact of some sort seems to be on your agenda with dancers as well as escorts. In other words a rose by any other name is still a rose.. doesn't matter what you call it. Now.. if you say that paying outright for it is the same as a real-life date of gifts/dinner that guys pay on other dates.. I disagree. A guy buying me dinner doesn't guarantee him getting laid.. but paying me cash does. Real life dates aren't blind dates for me.. an escort date is. I don't ask what the guy looks like or if we have common interests outside of whether or not I offer the type of service he desires. I think you are mixing apples with oranges.. because the dancers you'd invite as you've said before are your 'friends.. you've met them presumably at a club and in many cases know them well before hand before you invite them to your home. Do you also meet escorts at a club? no.. or a streetwalker on the street where you can have a chat before arranging them to be a "guest'' in your home? Would they otherwise have you as a guest or be your guest if you weren't paying them? no.. and as well i would not accept payment in the form of dinner or jewlery for this service. Yes.. I do expect to be treated as a guest and treat my clients as guests like I would if I were coming over to do a tax return or whatever skill I'm being paid to provide. This one is a lot more fun however. I think that most clients if an escort invited as a guest to your home acted surprised that you wanted sex on the date and left without providing.. you'd not only be disappointed but put her on this board as a warning to others.

It's not the nice guys we are trying to make feel unwelcome, it's the creeps and time-wasters we're trying to make feel unwelcome. Not to sound trite, but I think a lot of guys seem to think that if they have enough money a lady will see them. There is more to it than money. A prospective client who has proven himself to be someone who is rude, lazy (not reading everything before asking dumb questions), or annoying is usually not a client ladies enjoy seeing. Consider it part of the screening process. And if this proves to be a turn-off for you, so be it. I'd rather turn off a few guys than have a headache day-in and day-out. Posted via Mobile Device

After reading a few posts about common decency and how people don't show the smallest amount of appreciation for each other and the complete lack of respect, it made me stop and think....... Are we as a society forgetting our manners, or just simply being unreasonable. ? A recent event really caused me to shake my head in bewilderment, and reflect on how day to day as we go about our jobs, we often don't get credit or the least amount of respect for what we do for others..... Recently, flying back to Toronto, we were forced to divert in mid flight because of a NASTY line of thunderstorms across the US Midwest. I can assure you, this is no easy task in mid flight, but after a bit of adjustment, we diverted and although almost an hour late, landed safely in Toronto...... As we thanked passengers while they departed, a blustery 'texan' proceeded to berate me, rather loudly, for how late we were and how he may miss his connecting flight and how he may NEVER fly with us again..... It took all of my good manners to smile and thank him for flying with us......perhaps i should have just flown into the storm and shook the bad manners out this pompous ass......but of course that is not an option... which leads me to this..... Regardless of what we do, should we not at least expect the least amount of courtesy and understanding from each other ? Should we not give each other the benefit of the doubt ? Because we pay someone for a service, regardless of what that service is, does that grant us the right to be complete and utter fools and treat the person giving us the service grief because the service wasn't exactly what we had expected ? I would hope that we all stop and realize that for the most part, people WILL try their best to deliver as advertised.....sometimes, in spite of all good intentions, we fall short....even though of our best efforts.... There....I feel MUCH better.......forgive my rant...but I thought it appropriate in light of some recent posts ! SNK

I don't think anyone who has been married would deny that there is always a cost to sex. (Although in my case I never got any anyway) my wife used to only hold my hand if she wanted me to do something in return. Never once, not even on the wedding night did she even offer me a hand job let alone anything else. If I wanted to touch her, it was on her terms. I can categorically say that there is some cost for every act, especially sex. The only difference is that we hobbiests , prefer to pay up front. LOL :-)

I will raise a glass to that. Happy Canada Day all. Take some time to reflect on how fortunate we are and have some fun. Cheers....

Michelle MA's gift to cerb. Thank you, Michelle. And a happy birthday to UT, too.

Firstly, always get payment out of the way up front and to avoid anything awkward or being ripped off afterward. It might seem suspicious, but someone bringing a 100 bill to an 80 appt with all the counterfeit stories we hear about is something to be wary of. If you get paid first, it can be dealt with in a couple of ways: - He doesn't want to pay 100, so leaves. - He pays 100 for the 80 appt, and learns a valuable lesson about bringing exact change. - He goes and gets the bill changed into 20's and returns with exact change. - You offer something in exchange for the extra 20 you are getting: in time, in service, in an offer of a 20 discount for his next visit. When you explain that you do not have change, you do it in a way that shows that it is not wise for you to have cash on hand, rather than in a way that implies you are trying to skim extra 20's off the clients. (altho a rate of 80 does not imply that to me lol, since he should not have brought a hundred dollar bill in the first place expecting change.)

Fascinating post! The hobby is a hobby. I collect odd (not old, I said odd) motorcycles. They cost me to buy, insure, maintain, and fuel to ride. I love them all and they bring me pleasure. I love the search, the negotiation, the care and rubbing I put into them to make them as beautiful as possible. Not everyone appreciates what I see but it does not matter. I do it for the sheer pleasure of it. When I engage the loving services of a MA or SP it is for the sheer pleasure of it. I love the search, the getting to know one another, the rubbing and caressing to make me as hard as possible and her as wet as possible. They cost me hourly rates, little gifts, tips, occasional trips, time, effort, emotional tension sometimes but I love them all. Not everyone appreciates what I see but it does not matter. I do it for the sheer pleasure of it. It is not just about sex. I have a vanilla with streams of caramel partner and we have sex as well as all sorts of things that have nothing to do with sex and that sometimes get in the way. This is not a hobby it is a choice about lifestyle and family. I have long-time lovers in various cities that stay with me when I travel. This is not a hobby, it is a very adult form of friendship. I engage in various fetish activities that push my physical, emotional, spiritual boundaries. This is not a hobby it is part of my personal growth and discovery. All of these things have sex involved but only the hobby is a hobby. I love this hobby.

Money exchange upfront would help avoid such things I suspect. Stating upfront like Ava does is a good idea for your own safety as well. Thankfully it does not happen a lot but in the past some SP's have been robbed (guy asks for change and when you pull your purse out to make change the guy snatches and runs). If you say "Sorry I don't keep any money here to make change for you" (or better yet state it on your website like Ava does) that would remove a lot of the risk I suspect and anyone looking to rob a provider this way may think twice after reading that as well.

You are right. I can refuse the client or services for whatever reason. Well, what if the reason is because I don't feel like it because it's raining and not sunny. If I stay the time, you won't mind me keeping the money? After all, according to you, it's what I deem suitable. You know what would happen if I did that? I would lose clients, get a bad rep and probably one day even get hurt. I agree with Carrie that you are mixing apples with oranges. The circumstances you refer to is not the norm. When guys pay us for "our time", sex is inferred. I think you should just call it what it is. The rest is all window dressing. We're all adults here. You are certainly entitled to your point of view, but I am wondering who you are trying to convince - us or yourself.

Yes kissing,cuddling and hugging is definitely a sexual contact, shit when that happens with me I get a woody!:grin:....then it is play time!

SA, you need not apologize for having an opinion and point of view. The pleasure you derive from the forms of hobbying you enjoy is a personal emotion. I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs whether or not others agree! One should never feel bad in sharing their thoughts when there is no harm meant to anyone!

For me I look for more than just the sex, and i go to great lengths to ensure that is my experience.... This hobby is DEFINITELY one that rewards you in spades AS LONG AS YOU AERE WILLING TO GIVE AS MUCH AS YOU EXPECT TO RECEIVE........ I have only seen 2 ladies, for a combined total of just under 10 visits. Each and every time it has been a long appointment, one that always includes a nice dinner date, which gives us both ample time to relax, and enjoy each other's company. This way by the time we finally retreat to the room, we are both comfortable with one another, are completely relaxed......makes for a wonderful evening. By no means am I an expert, but for me that's my magic formula and what makes it a memorable experience each and every time...........going well beyond just the sex... While in the end it is a business transaction, what makes this more than simply a transaction for sex, is how we spend the time together, the respect we show for each other, and the GENUINE CARING that develops over time, for each other..... Don't believe me ? Read the reviews, and see how many people repeat, and just how much better each session seems to get...... When you ensure that BOTH of your needs have been met.....it is a lot more than just sex......it's a friendship with some delicious benefits....

Al, I am in your exact predicament. I am 40 years old, and was.born disabled. It sounds like your disability is fairly recent. Unfortunately, as far as privacy issues around masturbation, if you want to do it you're probably going to have to accept the fact that your staff have to help you. In my experience, most caregivers, as long as you don't ask them to actually perform the stimulation don't mind helping you get set up. As far as a mess in the morning, I have you considered a supply of blue incontinence pads? They are cheap, and disposable. Just lay one on top of the sheets, masturbate, and then throw the evidence in the trash in the morning, by which time the pad will have absorbed said evidence anyway. Please remember, that masturbation is a perfectly normal and natural desire, and I bet that 90% of your caregivers do it at least once a week, and in your situation would probably want help too.

Kelowna Beach Bunnies, Danika.