xxxAxxx 21016 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 Out of curiosity, if a gentleman gave me your name as a reference and if I followed up with an email to you and asked you if you had seen him, if he was a respectful guest and if you would see him again, you would not take a few minutes of your time to answer my email/PM with a simple "yes, I have seen him and he was really nice during our date, have fun" or "yes, I've seen him but he was a bad date" or any variable of your experience? Please don't take offense to this, as it is not meant to be derogatory towards you...but the answer is no, I would not take my time to help you in your business venture. As mentioned in my previous comment, I do not agree with asking other SP's to do your pre-screening for you (Not YOU in general, just figuratively speaking). I have very limited time for these services as it is, not to mention the amount of time I do waste (as mentioned; the time-wasters ARE out there)...I don't feel comfortable sharing any information with you nor taking the time out of my day to assist you in gaining a client. It is your choice to perform this pre-check, as is your right and personal preference, but I do agree with the post by withpassion in regards to its nature being that ANY one else can take the risk for you. Sadly, that is the way I feel on the matter. I'm sure there is no lack of other SP's who are willing to share information with you, I am simply not one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Please don't take offense to this, as it is not meant to be derogatory towards you...but the answer is no, I would not take my time to help you in your business venture. As mentioned in my previous comment, I do not agree with asking other SP's to do your pre-screening for you (Not YOU in general, just figuratively speaking). I have very limited time for these services as it is, not to mention the amount of time I do waste (as mentioned; the time-wasters ARE out there)...I don't feel comfortable sharing any information with you nor taking the time out of my day to assist you in gaining a client. It is your choice to perform this pre-check, as is your right and personal preference, but I do agree with the post by withpassion in regards to its nature being that ANY one else can take the risk for you. Sadly, that is the way I feel on the matter. I'm sure there is no lack of other SP's who are willing to share information with you, I am simply not one of them. I hope you don't mind my asking but... I'm curious about this. I had always got the impression that most (if not all) SPs - or at least, the ones on CERB, who are the only ones I know much about - were fine with giving references, even if they didn't ask for references themselves. But you're the first person I can recall who's come out as saying that she wouldn't provide a reference if asked... and I'm afraid that makes you rare and exotic and deserving of further investigation :) What I don't get (possibly because I'm on the other side of the fence here) is why you characterize references as a wholly negative thing. I'm making an assumption here that you do your own screening and that you would prefer to avoid the time-wasters and those who may jeopardize your safety... but given this, isn't the collective experience of the SP community better than what any individual could hope to achieve alone? Yes, giving someone else a reference helps her to save time on screening, at a cost of perhaps a couple of minutes to you... but the flip-side of that is that being able to ask someone else for a reference similarly allows you to save the time you'd otherwise spend on screening. What I'm really asking here is: does opting out of the give-and-take of references completely actually save you time, in the long run? Sure, it's not always going to be perfectly even - I've heard SPs grouch about the fact that they're giving more references to another SP than they get in return. I'm just curious as to why you seem to be so thoroughly down on the whole thing. Is it really a zero-sum game? Edited November 30, 2012 by Phaedrus 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EmilyRushton 253352 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Please don't take offense to this, as it is not meant to be derogatory towards you...but the answer is no, I would not take my time to help you in your business venture. As mentioned in my previous comment, I do not agree with asking other SP's to do your pre-screening for you (Not YOU in general, just figuratively speaking). I have very limited time for these services as it is, not to mention the amount of time I do waste (as mentioned; the time-wasters ARE out there)...I don't feel comfortable sharing any information with you nor taking the time out of my day to assist you in gaining a client. It is your choice to perform this pre-check, as is your right and personal preference, but I do agree with the post by withpassion in regards to its nature being that ANY one else can take the risk for you. Sadly, that is the way I feel on the matter. I'm sure there is no lack of other SP's who are willing to share information with you, I am simply not one of them. WOW! Your willing to risk another woman's safety for your own selfish reasoning. I don't know how you sleep at night... A reference is not doing another's homework or screening. It is plain and simple helping another SP stay safe. Your attitude and response sickens me. When I ask for a reference. I want to know you've seen him. That's it. I don't care what details you have about him unless he put you in danger. If the client contacts me, your not helping me get the client - he's already interested I don't know what bubble you live in but in today's society helping one another stay safe is more important than any amount of money. You should know even though you have a really wrong perception of what a reference is all about. One day after you have a potential bad date or wish to not be high volume and decide to screen that you will need ALL of us SPs you so badly think awful of for screening to vouch for you.... I'm so glad my life and safety means so little to you... 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cat 262460 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 I'm a little old school and don't require references but I gladly give them for guests if a lady requests it. If an SP choses to have a reference option, that is her decision alone; I respect that and cooperate fully. I agree with Emily, safety is paramount. References are an excellent tool, especially for travelling SPs who attract the less desirable hobbyists who have worn out their welcome with local SPs. I don't ask for them as I don't travel much and I prefer to trust my intuition and hands on homework when I book a new guest for an introduction. To each their own, I've enjoyed reading this thread. Posts always offer so much insight into people... cat 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300291 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 One thing about this idea that you are jumping through hoops when you need a reference and have to provide verification information. Not at all. Contact the lady you wish to see via email, giving her all required information, except the reference. But tell her in your email that you have contacted your reference for her permission, and will give her name/email once she gives permission PM the lady on CERB, which provides proof of your board handle Email the lady you wish to see once your reference gives permission WOW, something like three emails total (not counting any thank you emails :-) ), plus a PM Now you may be a gentleman, but until you and the lady meet, you are both strangers, the most she knows about you is your posts and emails Verification including references lets the lady know about you from someone else who has met you. It's not a 100 percent guarantee, but it sure minimizes the risk to the ladies, and keeps this lifestyle as safe as can be. The first time I had to be verified, once I gave my name, pit in my stomach, "OMG she knows my real name" LOL. Now I happily provide the information to ladies on autopilot. And the hoops, well the ladies I have met after jumping through those hoops have provided me with wonderful encounters, and some of those ladies I even consider friends...who could think hoop jumping could lead to many great encounters and wonderful memories A rambling RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxxAxxx 21016 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 WOW! Your willing to risk another woman's safety for your own selfish reasoning. I don't know how you sleep at night... No, I risk my own safety, and so do many other SP's. If I wanted to work as a team I would join an escorting service. For me it's about independence and doing things myself, my way... and let's be honest, you do not get into this line of work thinking it's all sunshine and lollipops. Everyone knows the risks they are willing to take or not take. Feel free to continue to do things your way, I'm not saying it's wrong or that you shouldn't. But you are telling me how I should feel and act. Keep that in mind please. All I asked is to not be brought into any of your business. Afterall, there is an SP only section where we can alert one another of bad encounters. If I ever experience anything worthy of a thread believe me, it will be posted. Beyond that, I have no obligations to you or anyone else, imo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
withpassion 914 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 No, I risk my own safety, and so do many other SP's. If I wanted to work as a team I would join an escorting service. For me it's about independence and doing things myself, my way... and let's be honest, you do not get into this line of work thinking it's all sunshine and lollipops. Everyone knows the risks they are willing to take or not take. Feel free to continue to do things your way, I'm not saying it's wrong or that you shouldn't. But you are telling me how I should feel and act. Keep that in mind please. All I asked is to not be brought into any of your business.Afterall, there is an SP only section where we can alert one another of bad encounters. If I ever experience anything worthy of a thread believe me, it will be posted. Beyond that, I have no obligations to you or anyone else, imo. Exactly my point. Each one of us make our own decisions. That does not make them good or bad...perhaps for others, but does that matter? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 I'm a little old school and don't require references but I gladly give them for guests if a lady requests it. If an SP choses to have a reference option, that is her decision alone; I respect that and cooperate fully. I agree with Emily, safety is paramount. References are an excellent tool, especially for travelling SPs who attract the less desirable hobbyists who have worn out their welcome with local SPs. I don't ask for them as I don't travel much and I prefer to trust my intuition and hands on homework when I book a new guest for an introduction. To each their own, I've enjoyed reading this thread. Posts always offer so much insight into people... cat Like Cat, I am "old school" don't generally require references. I am a short notice, same-day booker, so I go with my intuition and I require the minimum of a call-back number. I have never had my safety compromised with the way I screen because I always book via phone (never just text or just email) and I don't go into bad neighbourhoods at night so to speak. I don't have any problems giving references if it will help another lady. I do understand how travelling ladies, in particular may request them in order to ascertain whether or not they are wasting their time putting out the time and expense of travelling. I have no comment about local ones who do - that is their choice. But yes, there are some of us who are willing to take "first timers" which are the benefit of these ladies in the long run. That having been said, obtaining a reference is not guarantee that the gent will treat one lady the same as he did another. When I travelled to the east coast last summer, I did receive references for a few of the gents. One in particular bailed on me last minute and promised to send me a cancellation fee which never did materialize so in that case a reference made no difference to me than if I had accepted him on my own. The lady who referred him felt terrible, but I do not blame her. I don't live down there, so I guess there was no incentive for him to make it up to me. We all need to do what we have to do to feel comfortable and safe and if we can help each other, then we should strive to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
backrubman 64800 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 ...That having been said, obtaining a reference is not guarantee that the gent will treat one lady the same as he did another. When I traveled to the east coast last summer, I did receive references for a few of the gents. One in particular bailed on me last minute and promised to send me a cancellation fee which never did materialize so in that case a reference made no difference to me than if I had accepted him on my own. The lady who referred him felt terrible, but I do not blame her. I don't live down there, so I guess there was no incentive for him to make it up to me. That's most unfortunate Angela but that goes more to the morals of the gentleman which no lady can really attest to. By providing a reference she can only tell you that the client treated her well enough that she would book with him again, obviously she can't tell you if his moral standards are such he would make good on a promise to make it up to you if he has to cancel at the last minute. That's why I used to prefer to provide the lady an advance deposit and then when I became more trusting full payment in advance so I don't have to deal with cash at all. Eventually I realized that with someone of your obvious stature and good reputation, why bother with a partial payment at all when if you were the one that had to cancel I am certain you would provide a refund. So these days I just send the full amount in advance (if the lady agrees) and then that is one less thing I have to worry about. That's an opinion, not a fact. Look at the people who saw the whole "hoops ordeal" negative, they dont agree with u My opinion that ladies who require references is a positive is an opinion, but a client's possible future need for a reference is a fact. If I know you will never provide a reference for me (particularly to a lady in another city I might not travel to as often) then one of the normally expected services is that for a certain period of time a lady you recently saw will take a few minutes of her day to provide a reference because I might be seeing a lady that requires one and therefore need one, in fact many ladies ask for two references. Much less important to me today then it was when I was new to CERB and I had no post history or reputation it was of great importance to me. I don't get asked for references very often anymore so it is obvious some ladies do review your history here, that and the fact that I much prefer to see a lady I've already seen before whenever possible. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest S**a*Q Report post Posted November 30, 2012 I don't ask for references either. I do ensure my safety however through other means, but I'm pretty easy going to book with and I have a good instinct which has served me well so far. I think it's just as nerve wracking for the clients as it is for us, their safety is in as much in jeopardy as ours is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeRichards 177238 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 It is one thing to have a bad date or be out of pocket financially .... It is another thing to be in a dangerous encounter. Team play amongst the ladies is huge in my opinion .... for safety. If you don't ask for references for your own business...that is your business. I do urge you to share with other ladies and not look at it as doing all the work for others... Us fella's share info via recco's, posts, threads and some with PM's. Worst case scenario is a bad experience or being ripped off. You ladies share information for the same reason.....but also for safety. Everytime I read threads like this I think of my cousin who perhaps maybe...just maybe would still be with us and enjoying life if she would have had the benefit of team play as it is now .... 14 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolette Vaughn 294340 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 There is no right or wrong way in how an SP decides to go about screening. Personally, I come from the old school way of doing things as well and at the end of the day, a reference just isn't enough for me since it can be a false sense of security imo. One experience with an SP may differ from the next with the same client. Instead, I prefer to go with my own instincts which have proven to serve me well. I will engage the potential customer in a phone call to gain some insight since I do not like booking by email which is too anonymous for me and I don't like booking days or weeks in advance. However, I don't fault others who do ask for references as a way of screening and am happy to provide them. Sharing info is always a good thing. Every SP does it their own way and we all have to respect that. If someone doesn't agree with it, there are plenty of other SPs around that have a different approach of rather than asking for references. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) No, I risk my own safety, and so do many other SP's. If I wanted to work as a team I would join an escorting service. For me it's about independence and doing things myself, my way... and let's be honest, you do not get into this line of work thinking it's all sunshine and lollipops. Everyone knows the risks they are willing to take or not take. Feel free to continue to do things your way, I'm not saying it's wrong or that you shouldn't. But you are telling me how I should feel and act. Keep that in mind please. All I asked is to not be brought into any of your business.Afterall, there is an SP only section where we can alert one another of bad encounters. If I ever experience anything worthy of a thread believe me, it will be posted. Beyond that, I have no obligations to you or anyone else, imo. I agree with you xXxAxXx. I do not ask for references for my own reasons and I do not give references for my own reasons. I enjoy working for myself because I'm free to make my own choices and one of those choices is to not ask or give references. This choice has nothing to do with me wanting to put anyone in harms way. I just find it easier to work independently and to run my business by myself. I'm very discreet and I like to keep my personal information to myself. There are many lovely ladies on this site willing to give references. All I ask is to be respected for how I run my business. We all have our own way of dealing with things and just because we run things differently doesn't mean that one person is right and one person is wrong. It doesn't mean that I'm jealous or that I want to keep all my clients to myself either, not that anyone is saying that in this thread. It just means that the responsibility lies on the client to ask the lovely lady of his choice if she gives references for good clients. If not it is his choice to follow through with setting up an appointment or not. I have my own way of sharing bad date information with ladies but I find it inappropriate to be discussing it here in the public section. Edited November 30, 2012 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxxAxxx 21016 Report post Posted December 1, 2012 I agree with you xXxAxXx. I do not ask for references for my own reasons and I do not give references for my own reasons. I enjoy working for myself because I'm free to make my own choices and one of those choices is to not ask or give references. This choice has nothing to do with me wanting to put anyone in harms way. I just find it easier to work independently and to run my business by myself. I'm very discreet and I like to keep my personal information to myself. There are many lovely ladies on this site willing to give references. All I ask is to be respected for how I run my business. We all have our own way of dealing with things and just because we run things differently doesn't mean that one person is right and one person is wrong. It doesn't mean that I'm jealous or that I want to keep all my clients to myself either, not that anyone is saying that in this thread. It just means that the responsibility lies on the client to ask the lovely lady of his choice if she gives references for good clients. If not it is his choice to follow through with setting up an appointment or not. I have my own way of sharing bad date information with ladies but I find it inappropriate to be discussing it here in the public section. Exactly! Like I said, if i ever come across a dangerous person, I WILL alert other SP's via the SP-only section. But if we choose not to get involved in providing references that is our business and we have every right to choose so. Kudos to you for speaking out about this, as you can see I had not yet had anyone else of the same mind set on the matter! :) Good to know I'm not alone... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meg O'Ryan 266444 Report post Posted December 1, 2012 I am 100%independant and have always been. I do not require references as I find my own gut reactions never lead me astray. That being said, if a client wishes to use me as a reference I have absolutely no qualms in providing him one. 2 seconds is all it takes to answer a simple question :) 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 1, 2012 I don't think anyone needs to know the details to why a lady does not want to give references. I think people just need to know if the lady of their choice gives out references or not. If the lady does not give references clients should not be questioning the escort about her procedures, the client should just respect the escort and move on to an escort who does do references. There may be a very personal reason for why an escort does not want to give out references. Always respect the ladies for how they run their business, no matter if you agree with how they run it or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted December 1, 2012 There is no right or wrong way in how an SP decides to go about screening. Personally, I come from the old school way of doing things as well and at the end of the day, a reference just isn't enough for me since it can be a false sense of security imo. One experience with an SP may differ from the next with the same client. Instead, I prefer to go with my own instincts which have proven to serve me well. I will engage the potential customer in a phone call to gain some insight since I do not like booking by email which is too anonymous for me and I don't like booking days or weeks in advance. However, I don't fault others who do ask for references as a way of screening and am happy to provide them. Sharing info is always a good thing. Every SP does it their own way and we all have to respect that. If someone doesn't agree with it, there are plenty of other SPs around that have a different approach of rather than asking for references. This does sum things up nicely, and I also don't require references. It isn't necessary for how I screen or how I do my own bookings, etc. I also agree that if other sps do require references, that is cool, I understand there are a few reasons. For me personally, the safety issue seems to be paramount when the discussion comes up, but to me that is the least of the reasons for references. For one thing, like getting a phone call from an unblocked # versus a blocked one it sets up a false sense of security on that issue. To me, compatibility and our conversation help me decide if I am going to see a new caller or not. I wouldn't ask for references, nor will it be that important to me if he has them. HOWEVER, I would never, if asked, refuse to give one to another sp if the client contacted me and asked if I could do that. I would NEVER consider that what I do is all the work for those reference requiring sps so that they can have a safe encounter. But then I don't really consider that 'safety' is the number one issue for needing references, and I assume that at least half of the most important reason is elimination of time wasters. And that is important to everyone, imo. Just because some sps require references, and some don't, doesn't make either one better than the other. As one client points out, an sp's refusal to provide them takes her off his list. Her not requesting them at all puts her on someone else's list. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxxAxxx 21016 Report post Posted December 1, 2012 As one client points out, an sp's refusal to provide them takes her off his list. Her not requesting them at all puts her on someone else's list. Epic comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) First off withpassion expressed his view on the topic and he should not have been disrespected for that though he could have chosen better wordings. That said, I don't agree with his statements. It is not a safe world out there. There are plenty of unsafe or violent people, who are seeking victims. If you don't believe me read Ottawa Citizens every day there are people being charged with crimes or go to jail as a result. Safety and security in an important issue and a right for anyone at any profession, including providers. If some providers chose not to seek references that is their business but others who do, then must be provided. For God's sake I can't understand why anyone would refuse to provide references if she asked for, when the important issue of a colleague's safety is concerned but again your choice, not my business as why and if that is what you wish, by all means I respect your choice. Ladies who are usually physically weaker (do not attack me I am a complete believer in total gendre equality. They may be physically smaller but have bigger hearts and minds to make up for it) are walking into a total stranger's home in a totally unknown environment or inviting a total stranger they have never met or heard of into their homes or being alone with him in a hotel bedroom. Don't you think they are taking enough risks already? If you are a newbie, then maybe start by seeing those who do not seek references but answer their questions honestly and i am sure there will be plenty of SPs who will see you. And then once having references, provide them when you have one. Do you not want for the lady you are about to get so intimate to feel safe and have an equally good time?. How can she have a good time if she is worried about her safety? what is the big deal about providing references if you have one? References can also be an agency you have seen a provider from. I have in the past provide PKE (who are here on cerb) as my reference as well as cerb providers. All above said, though in the past I have gladly provided references, though have refused to provide my full name (goes against the principles of discretion also important for hobbyists) and would have refused providing pictures (again goes against discretion) if I was asked for (never asked though) as I don't see how a picture can act as a safety measure, though always given the option to the provider to leave with her transportation fee paid if she didn't like what she saw upon arrival. Edited December 2, 2012 by Capital Hunter 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 2, 2012 For the people who think that it takes only two seconds to say that they saw so and so, I have to disagree. I take giving references out very seriously and due to having bad experiences with gentlemen treating escorts badly, I take it even more seriously. The escorts never held me accountable. However, it made me feel like a big bag of sh#t and I feel bad about it to this day. For me to want to give references out, I have to see you at least 5 to 6 times to ensure I really know who you are. I will then be giving you a list of expectations on how I expect you to act and then I will be sending those expectations to the escort and I will be asking her to report back to me on if the date went good or bad. Then if the date went bad I will be putting the client on the no reference list and he will never be getting a reference from me again. So it does not take me two seconds to be sending out a reference. I take other escorts safety very seriously and I do not not appreciate the gentlemen who see me once or twice just giving my name to escorts expecting me to just hand out references like candy. I hope that it doesn't take two seconds for all escorts two give out references because that kind of defeats the safety and the whole reason for references to begin with. So for me it is just easier to say that I don't give references out. However, to good clients that I have established a relationship with I have no problems of thinking twice about giving a reference out. I hope that makes sense. So gentlemen please ask the escort if she will give you a reference first before just giving her name out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roamingguy 300291 Report post Posted December 2, 2012 One thing, if you have seen a lady you would like to use as a reference, before providing her name to the lady you wish to meet, ask her first.Nothing like a lady getting asked out of the blue by another lady about a client she saw. And depending on how long ago she saw you, she may not immediately remember you RG First time I've done this, quoting myself, but I did say if there is a lady you wish to use as a reference, ask her first. I never assume a lady will provide me with a reference until I ask her first, even if she has provided me with one in the past. Besides, to me, it's bad manners not to ask first. And I may be wrong here, but if a lady gives a reference, even if she saw you just once, isn't she just saying the the guy she saw behaved ok, arrived on time, paid in full, no issues, no concerns. She isn't giving out a guarrantee on him, so to speak on any future behaviours he will have with other ladies, just speaking to his behaviour and actions when she saw him. A quick two cents RG 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 2, 2012 First time I've done this, quoting myself, but I did say if there is a lady you wish to use as a reference, ask her first. I never assume a lady will provide me with a reference until I ask her first, even if she has provided me with one in the past. Besides, to me, it's bad manners not to ask first.And I may be wrong here, but if a lady gives a reference, even if she saw you just once, isn't she just saying the the guy she saw behaved ok, arrived on time, paid in full, no issues, no concerns. She isn't giving out a guarrantee on him, so to speak on any future behaviours he will have with other ladies, just speaking to his behaviour and actions when she saw him. A quick two cents RG I would rather have a gentleman come and see me for me. Rather than having him come for references. Due to having bad experiences with clients treating other escorts badly, I would rather not take the the chance on giving references out to clients that I have meet once or twice. I think it is an unsafe way of giving references out. God forbid if that gentleman was to harm the lady I gave the reference out to. She may forgive me but I would never be able to live with myself. So respect the ladies on how they run their business. There is a reasoning to the madness. I would rather be safe than sorry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isabella Gia (Banned) 53881 Report post Posted December 2, 2012 1oo% agree with this, when I request a reference and a name is given to me I ask the gentleman to please ask the lady to contact me, confirm they have met and that I should have no concerns. So gentlemen please ask the escort if she will give you a reference first before just giving her name out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
O'Cahla 4352 Report post Posted December 2, 2012 Anyone ever thought of, in the SP/MA private section, creating a client Reco section, AS WELL as a warning section. It would give at least a PARTIAL screeining aid if SPs and MAs could just look up a handle. I know it would not include ALL clients or preclude all screening that might be deemed necessary, but it might be a possible initial check. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jafo105 39057 Report post Posted December 2, 2012 O'Cahla Senior Member (100+ Posts) Long time member Anyone ever thought of, in the SP/MA private section, creating a client Reco section, AS WELL as a warning section. It would give at least a PARTIAL screeining aid if SPs and MAs could just look up a handle. I know it would not include ALL clients or preclude all screening that might be deemed necessary, but it might be a possible initial check. Jafo said: Doesn't something like this already exist in the SP only area? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
