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So you walk into an encounter assuming you're about to be ripped off? I have to ask: if this is the case, why did you book with her in the first place? If you're going to pay anyway, why bother going to the effort of making the SP you're with worry that you're going to rip her off? What's the point? How does it make the encounter better for either of you? I have no doubt that this is true, although I suspect I'd make the same statement with a rather different emphasis.

That happened to me too a few years ago and since then, I appreciate the envelop at the beginning of the encounter. There is no way I ever want to hear again, while on his way out, "how much do I owe you?" ... tell him the cost for 2 hours-after confirming via email prior--can you say awkward?-- and dealing with the fact that the "gentleman" didn't even have close to what he owed me on him OR have a new client say "sorry, I left the envelop at home or at the office, can I come back to pay tomorrow?" and you guessed it, he becomes the best disappearing act you have ever seen! Under the circumstances, being trusting with a new client or with someone you haven't established a comfortable level of trust with is, unfortunately, not to a lady's advantage and by not receiving payment upfront, it is automatically putting the lady companion in a most vulnerable and precarious situation. On top of this, if you know the lady requires her donation upfront and you decide to show up and refuse to pay upon arrival and when she reminds you of the "let's get he business aspect out of the way first so we can forget about it" and you decide to leave because of it, you have just become a major waste of time on a power trip! Things like this are not up for negotiation. It is what it is because ladies do not want to get taken advantage of. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

The arguments I have read so far (just skimmed the thread) about not paying ahead of time are ludicrous. Why on earth would I ever trust someone I had never met before to follow thru at the end our our encounter. I would be on edge, anxious and not a heck of a lot of fun; but hey, if that gets you off, guess it's another story!

I'm operating under the premise that the only ones posting fake bad reviews are disgruntled clients who didn't get what they wanted from the sp, even if what they wanted was to pay after the session. :) :p And I'm also operating under the premise that just because a site has a recommendation only policy, it does not at all make reasonable people think that all the recos are fake shill inflated glowing reports. Even on sites that allow the trash and bash fests, there are still lots of good reviews because there are still lots of great sps. I've always been puzzled by someone's negative willingness to believe the bad reports, but not the good ones, even to the point of excluding all the good ones just because one person posts a negative comment somewhere. Are all bad reviews fake? Probably not. But neither are all good reviews fake. Hence the term 'review fraud', and I don't know many sps who haven't been victims of review fraud of some kind or another. A fake review posing as a good one, indicates services provided the sp doesn't offer, increases her calls requesting those services. Causes trouble for her. Why does she want a good review pulled? Because it was giving misinformation. How many sps have requested edits or removal of these kinds of reviews? How about most if not all of them. Additional Comments: It occurred to me that in fact an sp who wasn't paid in advance is very likely to withold some services, or make sure the time ends at the half hour if not sooner. After all, she has no guarantee he brought enough money for the encounter he claims he wanted. He says he wants the full package for an hour, she thinks what if she provides that and he hands her enough for a half hour massage, and says, oops, my bad? This method is far more likely to lead to a short change in services, no wonder he thinks it works for him, I can't imagine too many sps providing the full deal without seeing he's got it with him.

Things have changed a lot since I became involved in this activity. It might have always been this way and I just didn't know the extent of it. There have been local girls who have either been forced out or had to go underground in order to operate. There's no doubt it's jealousy and frankly $$$. On one hand I'm a supporter of the local community but on the other hand like any business if the local community can't provide what the buyers want then they will look elsewhere which certainly seems to be what has happened here. Is it the nature of the beast? Perhaps it is. Too bad as some good providers and good clients will fade way when it becomes too much hassle. Peace MG

It actually does happen in a lot of other cities, however with the Maritimes (Including NFLD) being much smaller in comparison population wise - the amount of BS this year alone is worse than in any other place (see for once Im not bashing just Moncton :) The real problem behind all of this; is jealousy. What most fail to recognize is some of these new to the scene ladies (and some more experienced ones) are far from nice when it comes to other women. (don't get me wrong they will be sweet as pie when it comes to a client) They see any other women who is successful as a threat and resort to childish and immature behaviour ie: fake booking form bookings, endless emails or fake texts as well as slanderous ads on other sites. Dealing with all of these things take up ones time that could be better spent doing many other things. This has been going on for a long while, however as of late it has been getting worse(and not just in the Maritimes). The end result will just mean less reputable ladies visit these cities. It is very expensive to tour, and it is hard enough to stay safe without some crazy causing problems. I know Victoria well enough, to know that if she felt she had to post about this issue publicly - the BS was bad and I don't blame her for not wanting to visit again.

Victoria my sweet, I think what that other SP is doing to you and other SP's is ridiculously childish. Why does She need to worry about competition? If she was offering a service that clients enjoyed, then her service would sell itself. Instead she plays immature games to try and mess with other people. I think that letting her win, so to speak, is a bad idea. She doesn't get to bully everyone. I live here -- and I too have gotten some insane emails lately. More than usual. But I'm not going anywhere... So I just pay no mind and keep doing what I'm doing. You are an upscale, well respected SP. Keep doing your thing. The trash will fade and the pathetic will lose. Xoxo

At the end of the day, a gentleman should respect a lady's policy for payment and if she requests it upfront, that's what he should do. If he's worried he's going to get cheated out of the service, then maybe he needs to research the reputation of the lady beforehand or look at his own behaviour if he feels this is happening to him on a frequent basis. I can't add much to what was already said by Cleo, Cat and some of the other ladies.

I find it disturbing that an SP is trying to destroy your reputation. I hope any gentleman that hears anything negative about one SP from another will stop and ask the very important question: "Why is she telling me this?"

If a client refused to put the envelope down at the beginning of an encounter, I would ask him to leave. Someone holding money over my head for me to perform for them is not a way to make an encounter enjoyable. It would make me feel like he is playing power games. I ask my clients to put the money down before we take our clothes off. You get that out of the way, because do you want your girl worrying the whole time that you aren't going to pay her? It's something I hated at the spas too. THere it was standard to pay after, and guess what, there were a few men who enjoyed my service only to tell me after, 'OOPS, forgot my wallet! Don't worry, I'll come back'. Who wants to guess if they did? Stop comparing us to mechanics. Yeesh. If you are paying a woman to get naked for you, for her to perform intimate sexual acts for you, you give her the respect to pay her first. Do not power-trip and refuse to pay until she performs. I can't even believe someone would think this is acceptable.

I'm in!! All paid up and getting excited :)

Sorry, but just because somebody doesn't want to get drawn into this argument and say they take payment after, does not mean it doesn't exist. In fact I have personal knowledge that it does exist. Not everyone, not in every case, but it does happen. If some client doesn't want to pay you upfront, then you have the choice to tell them to move on. The same as they have the choice not to see you. If an SP for any reason chooses to accept payment after, then that is their choice, and I am sure they have weighed the pros and cons. To suggest otherwise is rather presumptuous. And because they chose not to post on this thread is not proof that they don't exist. Seriously, given the tone of this discussion, I don't think any of them would post on this thread, with you rounding up a bunch of torch carrying villagers to chase the monster into the windmill. Now I wish the thread would go back to the far more interesting and original intent of discussing what kind of contract a client and an SP have.

Do you think maybe those two things are related, just not the way you think? If thanks to your behaviour the session begins with the SP actually having to come right out and remind you about paying the fee before you'll pay her at the start, then some of that "YMMV" you refer to elsewhere may have kicked in... and you may find the session goes a little more tortoise, and a lot less hare. (Plus, it sounds like you'll have decided that since she asked you to pay up front she must not be "relaxed, fun and for real," and you've maybe gone all pouty and ill-disposed. Little wonder things seem to go poorly on those occasions.) Look, the women here take enough personal risks every day in this profession. As clients, one of our first priorities should be to never contribute further to those risks if we can avoid it. One of those professional risks is guys who dick around about the fee -- negotiating, pleading, or looking for a way not to pay at all. The fact is, when you don't produce the agreed-upon fee up front, it's not clear whether you're planning to pay at all. You've imposed risk on your provider where none was needed. I'm frankly stunned you can find anyone who agrees to this arrangement. Treat your provider with respect and remove that particular risk from the equation. In my experience, paying smoothly and up front establishes your own trustworthiness, and helps gets everything off on the right foot. I'd personally be ashamed if I ever considered doing otherwise.

I don't think this is much of a problem here on Cerb. The ladies here are professionals and have their reputations and their livelihood to protect. They have a vested interested in this. But if we are to be fair, we know there are a lot of ladies out there with the intent of deceiving. Just have to read the diary to know this is true. Of course the sp is looking out for her best interests and the client is looking out for his best interests. Don't think anyone is being evil here. I think the best thing guys can do is do their research and make informed choices.

Thanks guys and for sure I will not miss this one

Such good news; thank you gentlemen for this

New quality control testing will be required on drinks. I am up for the task but may need a new liver lol!

I do not know the exact circumstances that lead to the nasty texts but I can definitely tell you that when a lady has pictures available on her website and/or in her CERB albums that asking for more pictures is generally not a good idea; you can easily be perceived as a man who has no intentions of booking and is only collecting pictures. Yes, SP picture collectors are out there. You have to remember and understand that ladies are busy people too and have full lives (and sometimes other work too) outside of this lifestyle. Not every lady is able or willing to become a daily online pen pal with a possible future client.

TEXT YOU ! NEVAR ! What's your number sweetie ? Wait nevermind.... it is in your avatar there Christine ;) I had to chuckle when I read that comment. I did and do text a lot....apparently randomly ? A time waster perhaps but I do show up eventually damnitt :) I like to get to know a lady before I meet if possible and vice versa .... makes for a more chillaxed first meeting and follow up dates. I won't ask you if you give bbbj .... that's for you to know and for me to find out .... but I might ask you if you like Cheez Whiz ! My kinda girl .... but I have had equally good experiences with ladies who keep communication to short and sweet bookings. Go with the gut....Less relaxed perhaps....nervous as fuck actually on first visits for me !! ha But once you meet it is smiles, laughs and shagging and stuff :) Life is good . VJ has discussed the language barrier here and the shorter correspondence. Just the way some gals do business too. Very common and understandable. I was nervous as fuck crossing that bridge to see her first time ! Now I bounce quickly over that bridge on my penis like a pogo stick !! haha ;) Anyhooooooo I do respect your guidelines and parameters ladies .... this thread perhaps opened my eyes a tad bit as to how I operate moving forward. Ramblings from Friendly Manitoba

Yes, my goodness, the cops are the lesser of any problems any sp needs to worry about. And because prostitution is legal, it is perfectly legal for a cop to come and see any sp (although he would probably do outcalls not incalls since incalls are not so legal) I am always concerned about sps who do not understand the laws about prostitution in Canada, and rely on US TV or sites to tell them about it. For those sps convinced that asking that question will help them, keep in mind that in the US LE who do sp stings don't have to answer truthfully, and they can go just as far as those examples shown above, and not be in any kind of trouble at all. No sp is going to complain or report the extent they went to to get the sting done. AND these guys are willing to do it on camera, drop their pants, let the sp touch them, touch the sp, let the sp raise up her top, etc. I've seen them arrest sps who came to them, (in the US mind you), recording the whole thing, and do that, and not once did either of these sps on camera talk about rates and services at any time, but still got arrested. This does NOT happen in Canada. LE is here to help you, not sting you. Even if they knock on your hotel room door, in full uniform, they are there to ask you if you are OK, of age, and not doing this under duress. To the OP, you are giving them a freebie lol. Stop doing that, it could put a target on you as an sp who is green and ripe for being ripped off or worse.

yes, clients would have to be inside the incall location, whether a hotel room, sp apartment or massage parlour room, for it to be considered a chargeable offense. And even then I don't think the clients suffer for that as much as the sp does (loss of income, embarrassment, out of pocket expenses, having to move locations, etc). From what I can see in many LE investigations of bawdy house locations they are looking more for anyone 'living off the avails" in some way, or trafficking, underage sps, coerced sps, etc. And keep in mind, about LE, these are guys who seem to be incapable of reading ads on bp or elsewhere and finding incalls that are mini brothels set up in houses and apartments and staffed by illegal sex workers (as in sps in the country on student or tourist visas that do not allow them to work in any capacity). I have a hard time believing they are capable of knowing who the OP texted, that he went to see an sp, engaged in the legal activity of prostitution, and then followed him home even though all they really needed to do to find out where he lived was look up his license # and stay in the relative comfort of their cars in the hotel parking lot.

The police could, I suppose, treat her using the hotel room as a bawdy house. As others have said, however, in general the police have bigger fish to fry. However, for the client I believe the offence is being "found in" a common bawdy house ... not "having once been to" a bawdy house. For the OP, therefore, I suspect that if they didn't bust in while you were with the lady, then you have nothing to worry about, since you were not "found in" the location. Relax, maybe there is someone operating an incall in your building, or more likely the police have found it a convenient spot to have a nap at night after enjoying a donut. Porthos

" The donation is for my time only..." This sentence says it all. It is always the "hobbyist" that request an encounter and ask the SP to be available for him. And it's a duty for the hobbyist to inquire before he ask what he can or can't expect from the SP. And what happens during the encounter does not rely "only" on the shoulders of the SP. Chemistry, feelings, perceptions, expectations, and so on, between two strangers cannot rely on only one side. So, it is obvious to me that when I request a date with a SP, I will pay before hand every penny that was agreed on. Some SPs will wait few minutes to allow the hobbyist to be sure that he still wants the encounter to happen; but even if this is the practice of the SP, the duty of the hobbyist is to pay the full donation. After all, the SP that has accepted to meet the hobbyist at his request, has already given a lot of time to prepare herself, and has blocked a few hours and may have refused to see other hobbyists.

If this approach works for you and the providers you see, and is mutually agreed-upon, then that is what works for you. I think what is problematic here is that you are advocating that everyone should follow this approach, and that if they do not, then they are being fooled, or ripped off, or that they won't receive the services agreed-upon if they do not pay at the end. If you don't want to see providers who ask for the money upfront, that is your choice, and you will have to choose providers who are okay with this. But please don't advocate that everyone should go against the rules set by some providers -- there are many, many reasons why we choose to ask for the money up front, including ensuring that we ARE getting paid.

Well that's the first I heard of paying after an encounter and still scratching my head over that mindset Starting off an intimate encounter with that much mistrust can't be good. And frankly any lady would be well within her rights to show such a character the door Not only do I pay up front as gentlemen do I now utilize in many cases email money transfers paying for the encounter in full even before I see the lady Ladies take most of the risk in this lifestyle which must be a source of stress for them Why unnecessarily add to their risk and stress by making them during an encounter wonder if they will even get paid A rambling RG

You don't pay for service, you pay for time. I think this is the simple way to look at it. Any letter combo posted by a provider (bbbj, dfk, cob, and so on) mean nothing, the provider and only the provider makes the descion on what services are provided based on the client upon meeting and talking with them in person. Texting, email and PM is a very impersonal way to communicate. A great example a provider a has the power to refuse digits if I have cuts all over my hands for her own and my safety. Posted via Mobile Device

But when you go to pick up your car without paying, they don't give you the keys and you don't get your car back! This is a ridiculous statement to make. I would love to see what would happen if hobbyists started walking in and refusing to pay for service first, I really would. I am a provider that is fairly relaxed about the timing of fee collection and I have been screwed over many times because of it back in the day. Now, I have provisions in place that if a client screws me (without paying), it will bite him far worse than it will hurt me. I can also say that the first time clients that have stiffed me intended to do so before they ever walked thru the door because I have never in my career promised services I couldn't or wouldn't deliver. State upfront that you intend to pay on the back end and see how many appointments you get... cat

I couldnt agree more with Phaedrus! If you book a reputable Sp.. Why on earth you would have problem that she doesnt deliver what you want? Of course there is always the YMMV thing.. before meeting somebody we can never guarantee somehing at 100%. If you are not sure about the service you will receive or the chemistry.. Book a shorter appointment.. If it click.. Amazing! If not, move on! Dont book her again. So if you go through the appointment and it wasnt like you expected.. You dont pay her?! You try to kiss her and.. Ohh I dont like the way you kiss so I will just leave? Doesnt make any sense.

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Have an awesome day, CK!

Hope you have a great birthday Cowboy Kenny. I wish the maritimes could clone you too! Ye-ha! xoxo

24/7 and Halicuties are the same "agency" with the same number. Gentlemen please stay safe, do your research and Google phone numbers, as well as always check the warning section. Big Hugs, Lexy

Happy Birthday CK have a good one

Happy Birthday Cowboy Kenny! Hope you enjoy your day the way you like best ;)

Happy Birthday CK! Hope you get yer buckaroo all wet today!

Wishing you all the best on your day! HAPPY BDAY!

A very happy bday to you from all ladies n management @ VIP and ALO Group...

Just going in and not paying the sp before the session starts isn't the same as the sp voluntarily telling clients to not pay her until after the session. To me, this is forcing her to ask for it, and when she does, he makes it quite clear she will be punished for doing that, by leaving. So she's in a really tight spot, the guy who is there versus the guy she can no longer book who does follow her payment policy, but she missed his call due to this character. So, again, just because you do not present the payment in advance and forces the sp to accept it after the session is NOT the same thing as her knowing how to comfortably ask for prepayment. Saying that "lots' of sps take payment after the session is meaningless, to me, without a list of names of sps, to give them a chance to come in and say 'that's not true' or "i did that one time, because I was too scared to force the issue. it worked out OK, but now I know to not be too shy to ask". Maybe you could just list all the websites you've found where the sp does NOT say 'please present the donation at the beginning of the session", or all the many, because there must be tons of them, websites or ads that say, please pay me after the session, I prefer it that way. Did you ever see the HBO series Cathouse? Did you ever once see any of those sps do anything other than chat with a guy before he decided what he wanted, they got the rate settled, and she makes sure he pays? And if he wants more or extra time, doesn't she say, oh, let me take care of that before we proceed? Each and everytime, in that place, prepayment. Hundreds of sps working there, thousands of clients, and no one is post paying. And that is one single location. withpassion, you have NO idea what is running thru the mind of the sp who thinks she isn't going to get paid. It is a really aggressive thing to do, in the minds of some sps. It can also be slightly humiliating to have to ask for it, or to be handed some cash, after the fact. It is a HUGE reminder that this was a paid encounter, when really that part is or should be the last thing you should be ending any session with. And yes, you ARE telling all the guys that they should be doing exactly the same thing, in other words, sending a message to force sps to comply to your demands on this issue. I don't know why you don't see that for what it is, unless this aggressive behaviour is blocking your view? Clients and sps both say it is a bad idea, for the sp, that it is actually detrimental to the quality of the experience, but somehow you like that stick or the carrot of post payment. Others disagree, and you seem somehow offended by the fact that no one here agrees that post payment is actually 'normal' lol Normal to who?

Relax. You appear to have a case of first time jitters. The police have absolutely no interest in you or who you're having sex with. They have much more important work to do. Remember prostitution is legal in Canada. Furthermore, all that happened in the hotel lobby was that a woman texted you and said she was still getting ready. That's an innocent conversation that happens a few thousand times a day between couples across the country :-)... and then she invited you up to her room when she was ready. No problem. Not even close to the definition of public solicitation. While public solicitation is a prostitution related offence, private communication is not. When you originally set up the appointment by text, you were engaging in private communication. Texting or e-mailing someone, while discussing price, is private communication, regardless of where it takes place. You were not publicly discussing, offering, signalling, or negotiating compensation (financial or otherwise) in a public place (street, park, car, bar, hotel lobby etc). A simple way to think of public solicitation is that it is a "nuisance" law to ensure that prostitution activity occurs "out of sight... out of mind". (There are all sorts of safety issues that this raises and the recent Supreme Court hearing is considering these.) It prevents men from soliciting any and all women that walk past them on the street for example. It also prevents extra traffic in neighbourhood strolls. Seeing an escort at their incall location (e. g. hotel or residence) can be considered a prostitution related offence (being found in a common bawdy house). However, as with all indoor prostitution, if the sp and her clients are not doing anything else inappropriate to draw attention to themselves, the risk of any police action being taken is extremely low. The hotel would more than likely deal with it directly and confidentially themselves rather than calling the police. They don't want a bunch of police marching through their lobby, disturbing the atmosphere they have carefully created, unless something very serious is occurring. A couple having sex in a hotel room... As long as you're discrete, the hotel doesn't care, and the police care even less. Whether you're married to each other, common law, lovers, having an affair, a one night hook up, or a client and an sp getting together, it's all just sex between consenting adults.

I trust somebody once to pay after.. Still waiting after my money few months later! Never again. Period.

This is why I offer a discount when you book through CERB. Email then pm. No Impostors. Anyone can say they are anyone. My way they can't.

Here is a link for the agency 24/7 in the bait and switch. http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=146788

I am one of those newbies. I did decide I would like to see one of the SPs who asks for references. At this time I was not able to provide one. As others have mentioned the easiest thing to do is to contact the lady. I contacted her and we communicated back and forth for a bit. I do have an upcoming appointment. At no time was I jumping through hoops and have been having fun exchanging emails with the lady in question. I can't say that my experience with the SP I have been in contact with would be the same as ever other, however I would have to say I would respect each SPs desire to make sure their safety is assured. The assurance is not my choice or any other clients to assume, it is when they feel their safety is assured. I can understand what you are saying with this. A bunch of times I make a decision the day I wish to see an SP and go from their. Going through a process to provide a reference does not always fit into this time frame. I do think you would have had a different response from people if you hadn't used the wording "kick her to the curb", and just stated you choose to find one who does not require references.