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An open discussion about "Off the clock" time.....

Who was right and who was wrong?  

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  1. 1. Who was right and who was wrong?

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    • He was wrong and you owe nothing
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So I'm having an issue with a now former client. Our debate is about what should have been off the clock time and what should have been paid time. The fact that we are even taking off the clock time regarding an escort appointment is telling in itself because there should be no off the clock time, in my opinion. 

The setup was for an outcall. I normally do 2-hour mins on outcalls, and at a raised rate of $300/hour but I was being nice to a previously seen client who was not far in distance. I charged a grandfathered 1-hour rate. I arrived on time at 9 pm and left at 10:15 pm. 

During the chitchat leading up to the date, he mentioned multiple times 420, coming over earlier and terms like "chilling" and "relaxing" prior to getting started. I don't normally do 420 sessions with clients but again, I have seen him before on more than one occasion, and I thought since this was an outcall, he wanted to do it to relax, have a good session and then pass out. Seemed like a good plan to me. There was also talk of another session at my trailer, chilling again, having a nice campfire and then enjoy some fun time. At this point, I'm assuming it wants a combo of companionship and intimacy in his appointment. 

When I arrived, I got the tour of the new home, and when I asked about going to smoke, he said he was only saying that for me, he didn't' want any. Didn't happen that way, he had a little bit, he offered another form of marijuana which I declined for safety reasons. 

At about the halfway mark, I made the suggestion to head to the bedroom. He enjoys a nice 25 min long BJ. When he is done, he asks about pleasing me, I decline because it was already the hour mark. I stayed chatting and then cleaning up, leaving as I said, at 10:15. 

Surprisingly, a few days ago, I got an email from him very upset. He feels ripped off. He felt that he should have had an hour of sex. He says the offer for relaxing, smoking and chilling was for before the session started. That is why he was saying I can show up early. So that I could get settled, have some conversation, for me to smoke because he was thinking about me and then the session would start after that. 

I kindly explained that my time is paid for as well. I am an escort and that means that companionship and intimacy are both paid for. I explained that I have many 4-5 dinner dates that made up of mostly companionship with the last bit of the appointment is for intimacy. 

I was told that all the other escorts that see him, do this. They don't start the session until they go into the bedroom because they like to have real-world intelligent conversations for once and they get really great sex with multiple orgasms. 

Basically, I get the feeling, he wanted companionship and intimacy but only wanted to pay for one of those. I know he enjoyed all the time that I was there, but he wanted to have and only pay for an hour of sex, and the rest of the time would be on my dime. 

So am I right? Am I wrong? 

I will not be seeing him again so I can't do a makeup on the next session if I'm in the wrong here. Like only charging him half price or something. Most I can do is given him some actual cash back, which I will do if I'm wrong but I really don't think I am in this case. He basically wanted me to show up at 8:30, chill and hang like friends, then start the session at 9 for a full hour of sex, and only pay for that.  

As politely as I can, I have expressed a few times that we are not friends. That I'm an escort, and I get paid for my time. I keep getting replies that are intended to make me feel like that is wrong. That it is wrong for me to expect to be paid for all time, not just the time in the bedroom? 

Now I will say one thing if these requests of chilling and hanging before the intimacy part of the session were being brought up by a new client, I think I would have seen the signs and would have explained that I can get paid for both. Having seen this client like 3-4 times already, I didn't think I needed to say that as I didn't think he was asking for OTC time before the appointment time. I thought he wanted all that in his session. I still think he did want all that, he just didn't want to pay for it. 

Granted, I don't do many outcalls. I think this is like my 3rd or 4th, and I know what most escorts will say. They will side with me, but I want the opinion of other hobbyists. 

Do you expect a lady to show up early for an appointment to get settled, chill, talk, smoke, then start the session once in the bedroom? Or does time start when I walk in the door? Should I be giving him some money back? Should I feel confident that I did my job, as requested and deserved the payment I requested? 

Opinions please.....

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     The only person who should ask or offer "off the clock" time should be the provider herself.

 Once I had a session with a SP I knew well. After the hour was done, she asked me if I could keep her company for a while. She was working from an incall location and was by herself in that apartment. She told me not worry about extra fees as she simply wanted someone to talk to until her shift was done or a client would call. Having nothing planned, I accepted. I ended up spending an extra two hours with her and enjoyed every moment of it. But I would never dare suggesting this to a lady, unless it comes from her. It's her time and she should be the one managing it.

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He is in the wrong and perhaps the usage of what was smoked caused some confusion. I will say I’m surprised that you’d find the need to ask for an opinion. From most of your previous posts you seem to be one who dispenses advice freely and with assertive confidence. No one can please everyone nor should they want to .

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I voted on the other board already.  There's an industry-wide understanding that a client pays for the time duration he spends with the lady notwithstanding an in or outcall.  For example, one doesn't bring a bottle to a lady and expect the time spent chilling witht her should be considered off the clock - until or unless she says otherwise.  The moment you step into her place until you leave is the duration of the time the lady has to spend/work with you.  No exception even if you have seen the lady many times.  Again, unless the lady says otherwise.  Be a gentleman and refrain from haggling with her.

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2 hours ago, Greenteal said:

     The only person who should ask or offer "off the clock" time should be the provider herself.

 Once I had a session with a SP I knew well. After the hour was done, she asked me if I could keep her company for a while. She was working from an incall location and was by herself in that apartment. She told me not worry about extra fees as she simply wanted someone to talk to until her shift was done or a client would call. Having nothing planned, I accepted. I ended up spending an extra two hours with her and enjoyed every moment of it. But I would never dare suggesting this to a lady, unless it comes from her. It's her time and she should be the one managing it.

Agreed,

It is courteous to manage one's own time to fit in the prescribed schedule. I'll admit, I've sometimes felt a bit uncomfortable about being offered a water/beverage as the time is up. I usually decline, but express appreciation of the offer. I, like you, had one case, where an SP had some reasons she wanted me to stay a bit as she wanted someone to talk to... 

 

I think clients are not well behaved when they push outside the time without offering to compensate. Even if they compensate, they have to be ready for a potential "no" as the SP may have other plans.

 

-cbs

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I agree with the above.  You are compensated for your time.  I fully believe in as much open communication as possible.  If there is time that you dont wish to be compensated for or if there is time he doesn't wish to compensate you for, should all be communicated about before hand.. 

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It just seems like he actually wanted me to show up early, to get settled and have a conversation, chill, smoke, but that was all for me. He feels he was just offering that to be nice and being a gentleman and other escorts apparently take him up on this offer. So I was the bad escort for showing up on time and doing that during paid time. If I wasn't going to do that for free, then I should have just gone into the bedroom right away. That is the message I'm getting anyway.

It appears to me he is/was playing a game of offering something it wants and hoping I take the bait. I didn't and now he is upset. I guess I'm just looking for validation that my gut feeling was right and that I didn't do anything wrong. 

I also think it opens up the discussion of what is expected and not expected during a session.

Thanks to all who answered.

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17 minutes ago, Jessica Rain said:

It just seems like he actually wanted me to show up early, to get settled and have a conversation, chill, smoke, but that was all for me. He feels he was just offering that to be nice and being a gentleman and other escorts apparently take him up on this offer. So I was the bad escort for showing up on time and doing that during paid time. If I wasn't going to do that for free, then I should have just gone into the bedroom right away. That is the message I'm getting anyway.

It appears to me he is/was playing a game of offering something it wants and hoping I take the bait. I didn't and now he is upset. I guess I'm just looking for validation that my gut feeling was right and that I didn't do anything wrong. 

I also think it opens up the discussion of what is expected and not expected during a session.

Thanks to all who answered.

        If he wanted an hour of "warming up", this is something he should have mentioned before hand. And if you drive or see someone else later on the same day , the drinking and smoking could cause you problems. Reason why these kind of meetings should be planned ahead.

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5 hours ago, Cjthomas said:

He is in the wrong and perhaps the usage of what was smoked caused some confusion. I will say I’m surprised that you’d find the need to ask for an opinion. From most of your previous posts you seem to be one who dispenses advice freely and with assertive confidence. No one can please everyone nor should they want to .

Just wanted to address this directly. 

I realize that I sometimes come across as self-assured and confident, but we all have our insecurities. For me, unhappy customers, either with escorting or my mainstream job, is something that just rubs me the wrong way. I always second guess if I have done enough, if it was good enough, was I fair enough pay wise, etc. It is a thing for me. So this just happens to pull on that string, and triggered my insecurities.

 

Which is why I needed to see the opinions of others to help validate for me that I'm not wrong, I read the situation right and I did the right thing. It really helped me get back to my center and know the truth of the situation. 

 

Just now, Greenteal said:

        If he wanted an hour of "warming up", this is something he should have mentioned before hand. And if you drive or see someone else later on the same day , the drinking and smoking could cause you problems. Reason why these kind of meetings should be planned ahead.

I only ever see one client in a day. Maybe 2 in a week. I would never have seen anyone else. He knows that, so planning this type of session would have been okay in the regard. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jessica Rain said:

I only ever see one client in a day. Maybe 2 in a week. I would never have seen anyone else. He knows that, so planning this type of session would have been okay in the regard. 

 Maybe for that part. But if use your car and then drink and smoke at his place, this creates a problematic situation when time to go home.

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Just now, Greenteal said:

 Maybe for that part. But if use your car and then drink and smoke at his place, this creates a problematic situation when time to go home.

I understand but I'm a safety girl so that was all taken care of. Again because he kept mentioning it before the date. So to me it was expected as apart of the session. That is how I was able to prepare. I would not have even bothered if not for him continuing to bring it up. 

 

It is clear to me now based on all the replies across all the boards that he was trying to take advantage and I didn't fall for it. 

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2 minutes ago, Jessica Rain said:

It is clear to me now based on all the replies across all the boards that he was trying to take advantage and I didn't fall for it. 

     Maybe that or he was just a bit naïve and not quite getting the hint the relationship was not really more than just business.

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What everyone else has said. He was looking for free stuff which you are under no obligation to provide, or crossing boundaries that shouldn't be crossed without invitation, or both.

I'd just like to add that I approve of the fact that you aren't seeing him again. That seems like a very sensible course of action.

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You aren't being paid for sex. You're being paid for your time. It just happens to involve sex a lot of the time. If you and I got together, there would be no sex. However, I'd certainly expect to pay you for your time.

 

When I'm at a strip club and a dancer asks me to give them a massage, I don't expect to have to pay for that time. I'm doing an actual service for them. One that I used to get paid for. I make that clear up front.

 

It is unfortunate that there was a miscommunication with this client, but the mistake is his. He may have convinced others of his ways, but these are not your ways. The onus is on him to pay what you ask. If he doesn't like it, he can either take the hit socially where his name is ruined, financially where he feels he was ripped off and you lose him as a customer, or mentally where he realizes that he was wrong.

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I think you’re absolutely right. Remember, he’s paying for your time... that’s the deal. You made it clear to him that he had one hour, and what he chose to do in that hour was up to him. In effect, he wanted you to work for free by ‘coming over early’, and then acted like he was doing you a favour! Some people... It’s pretty rare to have off the clock time in general. It’s only happened to me twice: Once was when one of my regulars    insisted on taking me out for lunch before our appointment (A very sweet gesture on her part) and another time when a lady decided to stay over and above the agreed time of her own volition. These are exceptions to the rule, of course!  I feel you did the right thing by firing him as your client.  

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:28 PM, drlove said:

I think you’re absolutely right. Remember, he’s paying for your time... that’s the deal. You made it clear to him that he had one hour, and what he chose to do in that hour was up to him. In effect, he wanted you to work for free by ‘coming over early’, and then acted like he was doing you a favour! Some people... It’s pretty rare to have off the clock time in general. It’s only happened to me twice: Once was when one of my regulars    insisted on taking me out for lunch before our appointment (A very sweet gesture on her part) and another time when a lady decided to stay over and above the agreed time of her own volition. These are exceptions to the rule, of course!  I feel you did the right thing by firing him as your client.  

 

That is exactly it right there. I still don't get why he expected it. I really don't. I think it was more that after the date, he realized we were not really friends, and he was hoping for more???? In a weird way. 

 

Or he was trying to use this session as a way to get what he wanted at the session he wanted at my trailer. Which I totally assume now, all the "chilling, relaxing having a couple of drinks and smokes" was all in his mind, to be free as well. He wanted a place he could hang out by a campfire because it is something he misses so why not with a hot chick you can fuck afterwards. The fantasy bubble burst when he realized just what that would cost since my companionship is paid for as well. What better way to resolve that by guilting me into thinking that the companionship part should be for free. Hence the line about all other escorts doing it and how great of a client he is and again it would be a favour to me because he is such a great guy and basically implying he better than all my other clients because he can give real-world conversation and multiple orgasms. 

 

I'm so glad I brought this topic to all the boards because I was really believing at first that this was a misunderstanding and was actually going to give him some money back! 

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:21 AM, Jessica Rain said:

I was told that all the other escorts that see him, do this. They don't start the session until they go into the bedroom because they like to have real-world intelligent conversations for once and they get really great sex with multiple orgasms. 

 

🤭

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7 hours ago, Jessica Rain said:

 

That is exactly it right there. I still don't get why he expected it. I really don't. I think it was more that after the date, he realized we were not really friends, and he was hoping for more???? In a weird way. 

 

I think you said that you grandfathered in a different rate etc and he didn't complain at the time but days later. When you give a special rate, you essentially give them the opportunity to wonder if they could have gotten it for cheaper. If he didn't complain until later, then he had time to think about it..maybe chat with buddies, who would have, of course, pointed out to him that he got ripped off, simply because he should have taken advantage. That's not the right way to explain it. I have trouble with words sometimes. But think: opportunist. He missed his chance and it pissed him off.

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1 hour ago, TorontoMelanieJolliet said:

I think you said that you grandfathered in a different rate etc and he didn't complain at the time but days later. When you give a special rate, you essentially give them the opportunity to wonder if they could have gotten it for cheaper. If he didn't complain until later, then he had time to think about it..maybe chat with buddies, who would have, of course, pointed out to him that he got ripped off, simply because he should have taken advantage. That's not the right way to explain it. I have trouble with words sometimes. But think: opportunist. He missed his chance and it pissed him off.

I completely understand what you are saying and that could very well be true. 

 

Something made him change his his mind between the time of date and when he sent his post date email. 

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You were, and are, absolutely right. 

Don't give it a second thought. 

You are well rid of your cheap, client with his sense of entitlement. 

Lots of fish in the sea... 

Sacha 

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Sometimes, as we get familiar with nice people we start to make assumptions and cultivate expectations.  Most of us do this with with our regular friends all the time.  However, this is different. As a hobbiest, I am resposible to remember that this is not an intimate friendship.  This is a transactional business arrangement with a wonderful professional who creates the illusion of intimacy and friendship. Most quality SPs have that unique skill set that make talking, laughing, relaxing, flirting and exploring seems like I am the nicest person they have met in a long time.  But, I am not, but it is so nice to feel that way even for a short time.  Time is what SPs are selling and to ask for it free or to haggle on reasonable fair pricing is an expression of disrespect to someone who makes a significant effort to make you smile. 

This is not to say that occasionally SPs don't blur the line - for they are human as well.  After a session I was asked if I would join my SP for dinner. She said if I would come, she would thank me in a "special way" once we returned to the hotel, and both would be at no charge. Nice offer, but my sense was she was in a town without friends and was lonely for some company.  I agreed to the dinner but declined the post dinner "special" as being nice to someone shouldn't cost anything.

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18 hours ago, Sumac said:

This is not to say that occasionally SPs don't blur the line - for they are human as well.  After a session I was asked if I would join my SP for dinner. She said if I would come, she would thank me in a "special way" once we returned to the hotel, and both would be at no charge. Nice offer, but my sense was she was in a town without friends and was lonely for some company.  I agreed to the dinner but declined the post dinner "special" as being nice to someone shouldn't cost anything.

This is very true, remember we are all human and it all depends on the people involved.  I have made friends of a couple SP's over the years, some have invited me to drinks or dinner with them that were considered "off the clock" and there was no compensation for the time spent.  The important part however is communication, don't ever assume it will be "off the clock" unless its what she would like to do.  99% of the times I have visited an SP it has been the proper business arrangement but there are times when you really click with someone that you spend time together outside of that type of relationship and it all depends on the person.

I know some SP's have a very strict rule they set for themselves that anyone they meet within the confines of being a service provider they will keep it to strictly that relationship, and some aren't quite so rigid.  

Back in the day I created a few websites for SP's (needed some money for university) and we would make it clear that I was doing the work for her for Cash as some would try to trade favors for it, and I will admit being 19 years old I did cave in a couple times to a couple women. In fact spent one entire weekend with this one woman, good times, I did charge $1000 for a comprehensive website back in the day.  You can do it practically for free now on squarespace and wix, bastards. 😄

So just take life as it comes, do what you want to do, but be sure everyone is in agreement for the type of relationship you are having.  If you are SP/Client then that's what you are, if it evolves into friends or even friends with benefits then that's okay too as long as you both agree, sometimes it even evolves into full on dating and possibly marriage.

My 2 cents...

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On 4/30/2019 at 3:56 PM, Sumac said:

 

This is not to say that occasionally SPs don't blur the line - for they are human as well.  After a session I was asked if I would join my SP for dinner. She said if I would come, she would thank me in a "special way" once we returned to the hotel, and both would be at no charge. Nice offer, but my sense was she was in a town without friends and was lonely for some company.  I agreed to the dinner but declined the post dinner "special" as being nice to someone shouldn't cost anything.

🤨

Why can't I buy this story? Because why would an SP, who charges for it, want to give it for free for simply a dinner and because she might be lonely? I call BS ...

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On 5/3/2019 at 9:00 PM, TorontoMelanieJolliet said:

🤨

Why can't I buy this story? Because why would an SP, who charges for it, want to give it for free for simply a dinner and because she might be lonely? I call BS ...

I've had something similar happen. An SP was visiting Ottawa for a few days and we had communicated a couple times before she left. Once she arrived we spoke a couple times to confirm our appointment, which was later in the evening on the first day she arrived. When I messaged her from the Hotel lobby she offered to come down and have a drink with me and after our time was up she asked if I wanted to take a walk with her so she could see a little of the city and to pick up a few things from the nearest corner store. Long story short, from the time I first messaged her to the time I returned to my vehicle nearly four hours had past.

 

A few months later, when she visited a second time, it was something similar where she wanted to go for a long walk and we spent over three hours together. Why? I don't know. Maybe she felt safe around me and I was being kind to her. We were close to the same age and maybe she just wanted a tour guide to walk around with. Either way, she made it seem like I was doing her a favor but I was more than happy to walk around and talk with her. We got along really well. I'm sure I'm not the first nor the last to have experiences like these.

#ProvidersAreHuman 

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